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12/2006 H.I. Letter - Ask the Master #1 of 2

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  • prometheus_973
    Klemp answers two questions from RESAs. Q: As we enter a new phase of consolidation in ECK, and the need, for structure and format becomes apparent, what do
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 7, 2006
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      Klemp answers two questions from RESAs.

      Q: "As we enter a new phase of consolidation in ECK, and the
      need, for structure and format becomes apparent, what do you
      see as a key to continue enlivening that structure with personal
      commitment, creativity, and passion for God?

      In other words, is there a spiritual image, dream, or goal that can
      lead us ahead and keep us on track in our service to the ECK?"

      ME: This really seems like two different questions! The first is
      asking about the "structure and format" that the "new phase of
      consolidation in ECK" is to have. We have seen what the RESA
      "structure" and the Guideline/Training "format" has done for the org.
      and, thus, the article about a fox outside the henhouse is the result
      of this. Perhaps this RESA is expecting a new direction or approach
      with the "new phase" that Klemp has mentioned to them since his
      past direction and leadership has been a disappointment.

      The second question is a revision of the first and is more along the
      religious/dogmatic line of thought.

      Answer by HK:

      "To quote a friend who responded to a question very much like your
      own:

      'Guidelines are to help give us the purest form of creativity. They're
      not a replacement for creativity. First is the commitment, creativity,
      and the passion. Then the structure, yes?'

      ME: Guidelines are rules that give structure but they are imperfect
      and limiting. They are simply meant to "guide" one along according
      to a specific philosophy or dogma. They are not laws and are subject
      to individual interpretation.

      HK: "In a way that's true, BUT there's more to it. Creativity comes in
      all flavors. Sometimes it is sour; sometimes bitter."

      ME: Okay, explain to me the difference between sour and bitter! Are
      these the only "flavors" of creativity that Klemp focuses upon!

      HK: "Creativity must fit into an ECK form, like structure and format,
      in order to be valid. Once all that is in place, a champion's passion
      and commitment imbue it with life."

      ME: Klemp misses the mark. Creativity has many forms and, of course,
      It's source is Spirit or Eck as It pertains to all Planes of Soul. It
      is valid in either a negative, positive, or neutral structure or format.
      Also, this "champion" thing is just a business approach to the business
      side of Eckankar and has to do with bringing in more memberships
      and selling more redundant books. Soul is its own Champion and Master!

      HK: "Now how to enliven that structure? Ask trusted ECK leaders for
      ideas on ways to carry out a project. The ECK works through them too.
      When they see that you value their ideas, it will inspire them to make a
      project successful."

      ME: Yes, give them the impression that what they have to share is
      valuable, or will be implemented. Make them feel important. However,
      who are these "trusted ECK leaders?" How does the RESA know if they
      can be "trusted?" Is a good measure their Initiation level and years in
      the org or that they too once held very high and "trusted" settler
      positions?

      HK: "IF possible, discuss the idea(s) in a meeting with these leaders.
      Let them help shake out strengths and weaknesses."

      ME: Don't these RESAs already know to do this?! I can see why such
      generalized instruction leads to chaos. The individual interpretation of
      the value of one's "ideas" still come down to personal preference and
      one's comfort zone. Also, budget and resources is of concern too!

      HK: "BUT--and this point is important--reserve the final decision for
      yourself as RESA."

      ME: Of course the RESA is in charge! They are HK's eyes and ears.
      Eckankar is a lower world hierarchy. The mistake that most Eckists make
      is in thinking that it is more! But, it is obvious when one sees with a
      clear and open mind, that the All Knowing LEM/Mahanta is really clueless
      in all things spiritual. This is what Eckists just don't want to believe.
      Eckists want to believe that their God is Bigger than all others because
      it feels good and safe and secure in thinking this as it does with other
      followers of other religions. If there was any validity to Eckankar there
      wouldn't be H.I. "foxes" raiding the henhouse!

      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      HI ALL, ECKANKAR believes in channeling. That s how Twit copied the Shariyats right! PT, supposedly, got the info from one of the NINE SILENT ONES, or so
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 13, 2007
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        HI ALL,
        ECKANKAR believes in "channeling." That's how Twit "copied" the
        Shariyats right! PT, supposedly, got the info from one of the NINE
        SILENT ONES, or so the story goes. LOL!

        Anyway, I was reading about how MANY NEW AGE RELIGIONS are
        mistaken for cults, and that these Churches and Religious Leaders
        have the same problems as do the larger orthodox religions. In
        other words, no one is perfect, or has any "Spiritual" advantage
        over another group or religion. And, this "fact" makes these NEW
        AGE TEACHINGS/RELIGIONS non-cults. The logic used here is
        interesting and Klemp has stated that he's NOT PERFECT. HK's
        stupid stories and negative comments and his problems with H.I.
        FOXES certainly shows the imperfection and fallacy behind the
        ECK HIGHER INITIATIONS. The meeting of ECK Masters before
        "knowing" about them is similar (but not as profound) to Saul of
        Tarus, or St. Paul, being blinded in order to "see" while on the
        road to Damascus via JESUS/GOD in order to "know," follow
        and teach about JESUS.

        However, is this true with ECKANKAR-that it has NO "Spiritual"
        advantage over other religions? This is NOT what Klemp claims!
        According to HK the "GOD" of these other religions is NO MORE
        than a MENTAL PLANE GOD (pg.385, Autobiography of a Modern
        Prophet). And, the LEM/Mahanta is "the living embodiment of all
        that is religious" and the "special incarnation of the Sugmad."
        (Eckankar Lexicon)

        One should also note that "SUGMAD" resides at least TEN PLANES
        ABOVE THE GOD THAT ALL OTHER RELIGIONS WORSHIP. Therefore,
        according to Twitchell's ECKANKAR creation (the LEM/Mahanta)
        KLEMP IS HIGHER IN CONSCIOUSNESS THAN EVEN ALLAH ! I wonder
        what the Muslims would think about that one! JIHAD!!!

        Anyway I've made some more comments below--
        #####################################################
        Prometheus wrote:

        Klemp answers two questions from RESAs.

        Q: "As we enter a new phase of consolidation in ECK, and the
        need, for structure and format becomes apparent, what do you
        see as a key to continue enlivening that structure with personal
        commitment, creativity, and passion for God?

        In other words, is there a spiritual image, dream, or goal that can
        lead us ahead and keep us on track in our service to the ECK?"

        Answer by HK:

        "To quote a friend who responded to a question very much like your
        own:

        'GUIDELINES are to help give us the purest form of CREATIVITY. They're
        not a replacement for CREATIVITY. First is the commitment, CREATIVITY,
        and the passion. Then the STRUCTURE, yes?' [HEN PECKING ORDER]
        **********************************************************************
        HK: "Self-serving behavior always leads to misunderstandings, at the
        very least. So the ECK GUIDELINES are all important. ECK LEADERS AT
        ALL LEVELS MUST ENSURE THAT THEY ARE FOLLOWED, BOTH IN SPIRIT
        and IN WORD. THE Living ECK Master [OUTER MASTER] provides them
        for this very reason. A CHELA WHO OUTWARDLY MISUSES ONE OR THE
        OTHER DISTORTS THE ECK TEACHINGS." (12/2006 Wisdom Notes)
        **********************************************************************
        HK: "WRITTEN WORDS DERIVE FROM A PLACE NO HIGHER THAN THE
        MENTAL PLANE, BECAUSE THAT IS THE SOURCE OF THE ALPHABET,
        SYMBOLS, AND THOUGHT." (12/2006 Ask the Master)
        **********************************************************************
        ME: GUIDELINES are rules that give structure but they are imperfect
        and limiting. They are simply meant to "guide" one along according
        to a specific philosophy or dogma. They are not laws and are subject
        to individual interpretation, especially, on the MENTAL PLANE. In this
        case it looks like these ECK GUIDELINES ARE USED TO CONTROL
        CHELAS. As a "newcomer" commented on ECKists attitudes at a local
        ECK Center in the 12/2006 Wisdom Notes-"WHY ARE THE OTHERS
        WALKING AROUND LIKE ZOMBIES?" ANSWER: "THEY'RE PRACTICING
        THE LAW OF SILENCE." [And, if you can believe that you're ready to
        swallow more B.S. - I PITTY THIS FOOL!]

        HK: "In a way that's true, BUT there's more to it. CREATIVITY comes in
        all flavors. Sometimes it is SOUR; sometimes BITTER."

        ME: It seems that Klemp is saying that THE "CREATIVE FLAVOR" OF THE
        ECK GUIDELINES IS SOUR AND BITTER, but not to worry - it's NO HIGHER
        THAN THE MENTAL PLANE!

        THEREFORE, THE 'WORDS AND THOUGHTS' IN THE "ECK GUIDELINES"
        ARE 'NO HIGHER THAN THE MENTAL PLANE' AS ARE "H.I. ONLY" BOOKS,
        THE "H.I. LETTER" OR THE "ECK DISCOURSES!"

        *************************************************************************



        > ME: Okay, explain to me the difference between sour and bitter! Are
        > these the only "flavors" of creativity that Klemp focuses upon!
        >
        > HK: "Creativity must fit into an ECK form, like structure and format,
        > in order to be valid. Once all that is in place, a champion's passion
        > and commitment imbue it with life." [YEA TEAM!]
        >
        > ME: Klemp misses the mark. Creativity has many forms and, of course,
        > It's source is Spirit or Eck as It pertains to all Planes of Soul. It
        > is valid in either a negative, positive, or neutral structure or format.
        > Also, this "champion" thing is just a business approach to the business
        > side of Eckankar and has to do with bringing in more memberships
        > and selling more redundant books. Soul is its own Champion and Master!
        >
        > HK: "Now how to enliven that structure? Ask trusted ECK leaders for
        > ideas on ways to carry out a project. The ECK works through them too.
        > When they see that you value their ideas, it will inspire them to make a
        > project successful."
        >
        > ME: Yes, give them the impression that what they have to share is
        > valuable, or will be implemented. Make them feel important. However,
        > who are these "trusted ECK leaders?" How does the RESA know if they
        > can be "trusted?" Is a good measure their Initiation level and years in
        > the org or that they too once held very high and "trusted" settler
        > positions?
        >
        > HK: "IF possible, discuss the idea(s) in a meeting with these leaders.
        > Let them help shake out strengths and weaknesses."
        >
        > ME: Don't these RESAs already know to do this?! I can see why such
        > generalized instruction leads to chaos. The individual interpretation of
        > the value of one's "ideas" still come down to personal preference and
        > one's comfort zone. Also, budget and resources is of concern too!
        >
        > HK: "BUT--and this point is important--reserve the final decision for
        > yourself as RESA."
        >
        > ME: Of course the RESA is in charge! They are HK's eyes and ears.
        > Eckankar is a lower world hierarchy. The mistake that most Eckists make
        > is in thinking that it is more! But, it is obvious when one sees with a
        > clear and open mind, that the All Knowing LEM/Mahanta is really clueless
        > in all things spiritual. This is what Eckists just don't want to believe.
        > Eckists want to believe that their God is Bigger than all others because
        > it feels good and safe and secure in thinking this as it does with other
        > followers of other religions. If there was any validity to Eckankar there
        > wouldn't be H.I. "foxes" raiding the henhouse!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
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