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Re: 12/2006 H.I. Letter - Klemp talks of HU-Chat Cheryl & Co.

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  • Non ekster
    ... ,,,,,[HK]: He licks the boots of those above him in the hierarchy and expects those below him to lick his. He is truly schizophrenic. He and his like
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 5, 2006
      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      ,,,,,[HK]: "He licks the boots of those above him in the hierarchy and
      expects those
      below him
      to lick his. He is truly schizophrenic. He and his like .....

      ******
      THe whole letter is just Hysterical! It is interesting that Klemp
      can't see that he is also totally describing himself as well. The
      above quote shows the blatant admission that all of eckankult is just
      about the "hierarchy". These things happen in hierarchies. I'm sure
      Klemp's boots are very saliva shiny, as he encourages the licking of
      his own boots while punishing those who do not. He sets the example,
      and as a self-proclaimed godman (not) he also makes all of the rules.
      Looks like trouble is brewing in tornado land again. LOL

      noneckster ; )
    • prometheus_973
      Dear Brothers of the Leaf, There is a fox outside the henhouse, and it bears watching. You are a guardian of the henhouse, helping your RESA in making sure
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 5, 2006
        "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,

        There is a fox outside the henhouse, and it bears watching.

        You are a guardian of the henhouse, helping your RESA in making sure the ECK chelas in
        your area receive fair treatment from those who are above them in some service to ECK.

        These lovers of truth and the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master deserve fair treatment. Most
        ECK leaders show them that courtesy. However, a few do not.

        Much of the ECK work is borne by chelas who do so out of pure love. There is no
        remuneration involved. Their spiritual blessings are great, far greater than receiving a pot
        of gold filled to the brim. So they represent love.

        The fox stands for power. He is ruthless and sees a house full of chicken dinners. He
        feeds on the weak and helpless, on those who cannot defend themselves.

        Now, what kind of guardian would it be who stood by and let the fox, a power seeker,
        satisfy his pleasure?

        Someone who knows what is going on, is in a position to do something about it, BUT
        purposely shuts his eyes to the problem--out of fear, perhaps, of offending the
        perpetrator--is an accomplice of the fox. How could he not be?

        I was thinking about the constant struggle that exists between love and power, even
        among ECKists. You look at such people with their goose-stepping tactics and you wonder
        about them. Sometimes they almost seem to be schizophrenic, with opposing or
        antagonistic sides.

        On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful. BUT on the other, they are tromping on
        the rights of others with big, muddy boots. Yet they can't see themselves.

        Don't we all find it easier to spot a blemish in another instead of ourselves? Behind the big
        boots is the ego. It is out of control and can thus do a great deal of harm. These goose-
        stepping people love power, not love. It is disheartening to see them. They intrude into the
        domain of others. Deep within a file cabinet they come across a vague rule that, if taken
        out of context, says the others are not in compliance with it.

        This steps on people lower in the pecking order, who must keep silent.

        Long ago, as a Vahana in the field, I happened into a neighboring Mahdis's area to
        give an introductory lecture. This was in the old days, when the rules were not always
        drafted very well. That Mahdis complained to the ECK Office. So I found that the better
        part of valor was discretion, and thus wisely kept out of the area. What struct me was that
        the area wasn't growing! This Mahdis used up so much energy protecting her turf that she
        had neither the time nor energy to do an adequate job of ECK Vahana work in her very
        populous area. It was sad.

        She would not do it and acted like a bucket of cold water when others did show initiative.
        One such person can do so much damage to an organization, especially to one like
        ECKANKAR, because it places a lot of faith in volunteers and their love for the Master.

        These foxes--power eaters--are extremely stubborn in their determination to
        dominate others. IF they could only see themselves. Their motto: 'My way or the highway.'

        Other approaches they favor include becoming overly familiar with an intended victim.
        Then they take control of the other's life. The goose-stepper, the fox, is thus guilty of
        violating the ECK precept of allowing others to have their freedom.

        Such a person thinks that his ego is under control as much as that of another.

        He licks the boots of those above him in the hierarchy and expects those below him to
        lick his. He is truly schizophrenic. He and his like are few in number, BUT they do so
        much damage to the ECK missionary effort. They are like an atomic bomb exploding over
        a city.

        You may get reports of a fox operating in a Satsang class, as someone in charge of ECK
        intro talks, or in other important ECK activities. Keep your eyes and ears open. Find out IF
        anything is behind the rumors, and inform the local ECK leadership or the RESA.

        Keep in mind that ECK chelas are precious Souls. They deserve love and respect. They're
        serving ECK out of love, not for a pot of gold. Sweep the way clear of a fox. Allow the ECK
        chelas to serve. Let them unfold, so that their spiritual reward can be greater than any pot
        of gold.

        Harold"
      • Elizabeth
        Wow, Interesting HI Newsletter! Is Harold actually paying attention to what is going on? Looks like Rich and Cheryl s days are numbered! ;-) Hopefully the
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 6, 2006
          Wow, Interesting HI Newsletter! Is Harold actually paying attention
          to what is going on? Looks like Rich and Cheryl's days are
          numbered! ;-)

          Hopefully the members of Hu-chat will speak up about the censorship
          taking place by Cheryl; what an ego!

          Though I honestly think Hu-chat would do much better having just
          Frank and Cyrus as the moderators. (Frank never did like the HI
          power trips / struggles, hopefully he still doesn't)

          As an Eckist I was always a lover of truth, and still am! ONE BIG
          REASON WHY I LEFT!

          I came to a place long ago, that I wouldn't let any Master or his
          teachings, stand in my way of Spiritual Truth. I give ESA extra
          kudos for speaking out and sharing this HI letter by Klemp, and a
          tiny <smile> for Klemp having the balls to speak up too!

          Thanks Prometheus,

          Liz



          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
          >
          > There is a fox outside the henhouse, and it bears watching.
          >
          > You are a guardian of the henhouse, helping your RESA in making
          sure the ECK chelas in
          > your area receive fair treatment from those who are above them in
          some service to ECK.
          >
          > These lovers of truth and the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master
          deserve fair treatment. Most
          > ECK leaders show them that courtesy. However, a few do not.
          >
          > Much of the ECK work is borne by chelas who do so out of pure
          love. There is no
          > remuneration involved. Their spiritual blessings are great, far
          greater than receiving a pot
          > of gold filled to the brim. So they represent love.
          >
          > The fox stands for power. He is ruthless and sees a house full of
          chicken dinners. He
          > feeds on the weak and helpless, on those who cannot defend
          themselves.
          >
          > Now, what kind of guardian would it be who stood by and let the
          fox, a power seeker,
          > satisfy his pleasure?
          >
          > Someone who knows what is going on, is in a position to do
          something about it, BUT
          > purposely shuts his eyes to the problem--out of fear, perhaps, of
          offending the
          > perpetrator--is an accomplice of the fox. How could he not be?
          >
          > I was thinking about the constant struggle that exists between
          love and power, even
          > among ECKists. You look at such people with their goose-stepping
          tactics and you wonder
          > about them. Sometimes they almost seem to be schizophrenic, with
          opposing or
          > antagonistic sides.
          >
          > On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful. BUT on the
          other, they are tromping on
          > the rights of others with big, muddy boots. Yet they can't see
          themselves.
          >
          > Don't we all find it easier to spot a blemish in another instead
          of ourselves? Behind the big
          > boots is the ego. It is out of control and can thus do a great
          deal of harm. These goose-
          > stepping people love power, not love. It is disheartening to see
          them. They intrude into the
          > domain of others. Deep within a file cabinet they come across a
          vague rule that, if taken
          > out of context, says the others are not in compliance with it.
          >
          > This steps on people lower in the pecking order, who must keep
          silent.
          >
          > Long ago, as a Vahana in the field, I happened into a neighboring
          Mahdis's area to
          > give an introductory lecture. This was in the old days, when the
          rules were not always
          > drafted very well. That Mahdis complained to the ECK Office. So I
          found that the better
          > part of valor was discretion, and thus wisely kept out of the
          area. What struct me was that
          > the area wasn't growing! This Mahdis used up so much energy
          protecting her turf that she
          > had neither the time nor energy to do an adequate job of ECK
          Vahana work in her very
          > populous area. It was sad.
          >
          > She would not do it and acted like a bucket of cold water when
          others did show initiative.
          > One such person can do so much damage to an organization,
          especially to one like
          > ECKANKAR, because it places a lot of faith in volunteers and their
          love for the Master.
          >
          > These foxes--power eaters--are extremely stubborn in their
          determination to
          > dominate others. IF they could only see themselves. Their
          motto: 'My way or the highway.'
          >
          > Other approaches they favor include becoming overly familiar with
          an intended victim.
          > Then they take control of the other's life. The goose-stepper, the
          fox, is thus guilty of
          > violating the ECK precept of allowing others to have their freedom.
          >
          > Such a person thinks that his ego is under control as much as that
          of another.
          >
          > He licks the boots of those above him in the hierarchy and expects
          those below him to
          > lick his. He is truly schizophrenic. He and his like are few in
          number, BUT they do so
          > much damage to the ECK missionary effort. They are like an atomic
          bomb exploding over
          > a city.
          >
          > You may get reports of a fox operating in a Satsang class, as
          someone in charge of ECK
          > intro talks, or in other important ECK activities. Keep your eyes
          and ears open. Find out IF
          > anything is behind the rumors, and inform the local ECK leadership
          or the RESA.
          >
          > Keep in mind that ECK chelas are precious Souls. They deserve love
          and respect. They're
          > serving ECK out of love, not for a pot of gold. Sweep the way
          clear of a fox. Allow the ECK
          > chelas to serve. Let them unfold, so that their spiritual reward
          can be greater than any pot
          > of gold.
          >
          > Harold"
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hi All, It seems that Klemp is just giving more lip service to what s wrong with the org. How can H.I.s believe anything HK says when in the 12/2005 H.I.
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 6, 2006
            Hi All,
            It seems that Klemp is just giving more lip service to what's wrong with
            the org. How can H.I.s believe anything HK says when in the 12/2005 H.I.
            Letter (one year ago) he talked of Not Using IFs, ANDs, and BUTs when
            talking to one another, but it was okay to use these words with the public.
            It seems Kant had this IF, AND, BUT opinion of the intent behind the word
            usage and HK thought Kant had made a good point and, therefore,
            instructed his H.I.s to communicate better by saying what they mean rather
            than negating or putting limits on what they have said with a BUT, or not
            being direct by using IF. Now just read anything that Klemp has written in
            the past year (including this 12/2006 H.I. Letter) and count the IFs and
            especially the BUTs! BTW-AND is okay because it's a connector - LOL!
            Therefore, is it any wonder that H.I.s are confused. And, when Klemp calls
            some Eckists 'losers' or making those negative, unloving, and mistaken
            comments about that Third Temporary Postal Clerk back in 2003 is laying
            a foundation of negativity, unfriendliness, and exclusion toward others.





            HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,

            There is a fox outside the henhouse, and it bears watching.

            You are a guardian of the henhouse, helping your RESA in making sure the ECK
            chelas in your area receive fair treatment from those who are above them in
            some service to ECK.

            These lovers of truth and the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master deserve fair
            treatment. Most ECK leaders show them that courtesy. However, a few do not.

            Much of the ECK work is borne by chelas who do so out of pure love. There is
            no remuneration involved. Their spiritual blessings are great, far greater
            than receiving a pot of gold filled to the brim. So they represent love.

            The fox stands for power. He is ruthless and sees a house full of chicken
            dinners. He feeds on the weak and helpless, on those who cannot defend
            themselves.

            Now, what kind of guardian would it be who stood by and let the fox, a power
            seeker, satisfy his pleasure?

            Someone who knows what is going on, is in a position to do something about
            it, BUT purposely shuts his eyes to the problem--out of fear, perhaps, of
            offending the perpetrator--is an accomplice of the fox. How could he not be?

            I was thinking about the constant struggle that exists between love and power,
            even among ECKists. You look at such people with their goose-stepping tactics
            and you wonder about them. Sometimes they almost seem to be schizophrenic,
            with opposing or antagonistic sides.

            On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful. BUT on the other, they are
            tromping on the rights of others with big, muddy boots. Yet they can't see
            themselves.

            Don't we all find it easier to spot a blemish in another instead of ourselves?
            Behind the big boots is the ego. It is out of control and can thus do a great
            deal of harm. These goose-stepping people love power, not love. It is
            disheartening to see them. They intrude into the domain of others. Deep
            within a file cabinet they come across a vague rule that, if taken out of
            context, says the others are not in compliance with it.

            This steps on people lower in the pecking order, who must keep silent.

            Long ago, as a Vahana in the field, I happened into a neighboring Mahdis's
            area to give an introductory lecture. This was in the old days, when the rules
            were not always drafted very well. That Mahdis complained to the ECK Office.
            So I found that the better part of valor was discretion, and thus wisely kept
            out of the a
            rea. What struct me was that the area wasn't growing! This Mahdis
            used up so much energy protecting her turf that she had neither the time nor
            energy to do an adequate job of ECK Vahana work in her very populous area.
            It was sad.

            She would not do it and acted like a bucket of cold water when others did
            show initiative. One such person can do so much damage to an organization,
            especially to one like ECKANKAR, because it places a lot of faith in
            volunteers and their love for the Master.

            These foxes--power eaters--are extremely stubborn in their determination
            to dominate others. IF they could only see themselves. Their motto:
            'My way or the highway.'

            Other approaches they favor include becoming overly familiar with an intended
            victim. Then they take control of the other's life. The goose-stepper, the fox,
            is thus guilty of violating the ECK precept of allowing others to have their
            freedom.

            Such a person thinks that his ego is under control as much as that of another.

            He licks the boots of those above him in the hierarchy and expects those below
            him to lick his. He is truly schizophrenic. He and his like are few in number,
            BUT they do so much damage to the ECK missionary effort. They are like an
            atomic bomb exploding over a city.

            You may get reports of a fox operating in a Satsang class, as someone in
            charge of ECK intro talks, or in other important ECK activities. Keep your
            eyes and ears open. Find out IF anything is behind the rumors, and inform
            the local ECK leadership or the RESA.

            Keep in mind that ECK chelas are precious Souls. They deserve love and
            respect. They're serving ECK out of love, not for a pot of gold. Sweep the way
            clear of a fox. Allow the ECK chelas to serve. Let them unfold, so that their
            spiritual reward can be greater than any pot of gold.

            Harold"
          • prometheus_973
            Klemp is asking H.I.s to squeal on each other and follow the rumors to ferret out the Kal-Eck foxes raiding the lower initiate henhouse. Newer commentary is
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 6, 2006
              Klemp is asking H.I.s to squeal on each other and follow the rumors to
              ferret out the Kal-Eck foxes raiding the lower initiate henhouse. Newer
              commentary is below.###

              ************************************************************************
              It seems that Klemp is just giving more lip service to what's wrong with
              the org. How can H.I.s believe anything HK says when in the 12/2005 H.I.
              Letter (one year ago) he talked of Not Using IFs, ANDs, and BUTs when
              talking to one another, but it was okay to use these words with the public.
              It seems Kant had this IF, AND, BUT opinion of the intent behind the word
              usage and HK thought Kant had made a good point and, therefore,
              instructed his H.I.s to communicate better by saying what they mean rather
              than negating or putting limits on what they have said with a BUT, or not
              being direct by using IF. Now just read anything that Klemp has written in
              the past year (including this 12/2006 H.I. Letter) and count the IFs and
              especially the BUTs! BTW-AND is okay because it's a connector - LOL!
              Therefore, is it any wonder that H.I.s are confused. And, when Klemp calls
              some Eckists 'losers' or making those negative, unloving, and mistaken
              comments about that Third Temporary Postal Clerk back in 2003 is laying
              a foundation of negativity, unfriendliness, and exclusion toward others.
              ***************************************************************************

              HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,

              There is a fox outside the henhouse, and it bears watching.

              You are a guardian of the henhouse, helping your RESA in making sure the ECK
              chelas in your area receive fair treatment from those who are above them in
              some service to ECK."

              ### The RESAs are part of the problem. They turn a blind eye to the Kal
              like behaviors of those in their hierarchy. Many RESAs are simply inexperienced
              administrators without a clue as to who should be trusted and who shouldn't.

              HK: "These lovers of truth and the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master deserve fair
              treatment. Most ECK leaders show them that courtesy. However, a few do not.

              Much of the ECK work is borne by chelas who do so out of pure love. There is
              no remuneration involved. Their spiritual blessings are great, far greater
              than receiving a pot of gold filled to the brim. So they represent love."

              ### The pride of the Higher initiations and the power of having a high 'settler'
              position and having one's Eckie story mentioned or put into print is also
              part of the "remuneration" for many Eckists.

              HK: "The fox stands for power. He is ruthless and sees a house full of chicken
              dinners. He feeds on the weak and helpless, on those who cannot defend
              themselves.

              Now, what kind of guardian would it be who stood by and let the fox, a power
              seeker, satisfy his pleasure?

              Someone who knows what is going on, is in a position to do something about
              it, BUT purposely shuts his eyes to the problem--out of fear, perhaps, of
              offending the perpetrator--is an accomplice of the fox. How could he not be?"

              ### The power seeker is a common occurance in Eckankar/religion. Can't the
              owner of HU-Chat take Cher's moderator position away from her and boot her?
              Or, is she afraid to do so. How about Cher's RESA? Why hasn't something been
              done? The LEM/Mahanta wants to know why not!

              HK: "I was thinking about the constant struggle that exists between love and
              power, even among ECKists. You look at such people with their goose-
              stepping tactics and you wonder about them. Sometimes they almost seem to
              be schizophrenic, with opposing or antagonistic sides.

              On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful. BUT on the other, they are
              tromping on the rights of others with big, muddy boots. Yet they can't see
              themselves."

              ### Actually, this is not all that uncommon within the ranks of the Kal-Eck
              Higher Initiates. There are many that are well established within 6th and 7th
              circles of initiation. And, we can also include 8ths, 9ths, and a 14th!

              HK: "Don't we all find it easier to spot a blemish in another instead of
              ourselves? Behind the big boots is the ego. It is out of control and can thus
              do a great deal of harm. These goose-stepping people love power, not love.
              It is disheartening to see them. They intrude into the domain of others. Deep
              within a file cabinet they come across a vague rule that, if taken out of
              context, says the others are not in compliance with it."

              ### I remember that Third 'fill-in' Postal Clerk whose blemishes HK pointed
              out. Klemp got his big muddy boots out to tromp on him didn't he! See, this
              is why Eckankar doesn't work! It's flawed from the top down and always has
              been!

              HK: "This steps on people lower in the pecking order, who must keep silent."

              ### Yes, people must keep silent if they want that next initiation or that
              coveted position in the RESA hierarchy... maybe it's a RESA position! See,
              Klemp knows how the "pecking order" game is played... he once did it too!

              HK: "Long ago, as a Vahana in the field, I happened into a neighboring
              Mahdis's area to give an introductory lecture. This was in the old days, when
              the rules were not always drafted very well. That Mahdis complained to the
              ECK Office. So I found that the better part of valor was discretion, and thus
              wisely kept out of the area. What struct me was that the area wasn't growing!
              This Mahdisused up so much energy protecting her turf that she had neither
              the time nor energy to do an adequate job of ECK Vahana work in her very
              populous area. It was sad."

              ### Maybe the Mahdis saw Klemp as a "fox."

              HK: "She would not do it and acted like a bucket of cold water when others
              did show initiative. One such person can do so much damage to an
              organization, especially to one like ECKANKAR, because it places a lot of faith
              in volunteers and their love for the Master.

              These foxes--power eaters--are extremely stubborn in their determination
              to dominate others. IF they could only see themselves. Their motto:
              'My way or the highway.'

              ### Isn't that how Klemp dealt with Ford and Graham. It was HK's way or the
              highway! This is very two-faced of Harold. HK is stubborn too!

              HK: "Other approaches they favor include becoming overly familiar with an
              intended victim. Then they take control of the other's life. The goose-stepper,
              the fox, is thus guilty of violating the ECK precept of allowing others to have
              their freedom.

              Such a person thinks that his ego is under control as much as that of another."

              ### This is true of HK as well. Just look at how Eckists are promoted. One has
              to be in a clique, fly under the radar, and keep silent. Also, there's keeping the
              paid membership on-going and taking the trainings and doing the volunteer
              thing to stay in the Eck spotlight.

              HK: "He licks the boots of those above him in the hierarchy and expects those
              below him to lick his. He is truly schizophrenic. He and his like are few in
              number, BUT they do so much damage to the ECK missionary effort. They are
              like an atomic bomb exploding over a city."

              ### Boot licking and ass kissing too! HK did plenty in his day and yet never
              saw fit to change things in all these years as LEM. So why doesn't Klemp
              have more oversight? There should be someone at the ESC that Eck Leaders
              can call and remain anonymous or immune from repercussions. In many cases
              the RESA is a big part of the problem, especially, if you're complaining about
              their friend! Another thing, most Eckists will remain silent about the negativity
              they see because they are obeying the Law of Silence and are refraining from
              spreading negativity... besides it's all Karmic and the Inner Master knows
              everything... right! Catch-22 Klempster!

              HK: "You may get reports of a fox operating in a Satsang class, as someone in
              charge of ECK intro talks, or in other important ECK activities. Keep your
              eyes and ears open. Find out IF anything is behind the rumors, and inform
              the local ECK leadership or the RESA.

              Keep in mind that ECK chelas are precious Souls. They deserve love and
              respect. They're serving ECK out of love, not for a pot of gold. Sweep the way
              clear of a fox. Allow the ECK chelas to serve. Let them unfold, so that their
              spiritual reward can be greater than any pot of gold. Harold"

              ### The only "spiritual reward" that Eck Leaders have are their GOLD LEAVES
              and a bucket full of promises. H.I.s should look around and see all of the
              unqualified leaders that share their initiation circle or a higher circle. Why?
              Because Higher Initiation is not related to Higher Consciousness. The by-
              product of higher consciousness is not an initiation number and this is why
              many Eckists discount the importance of the upper high initiations! Besides,
              there's that 7th initiation ceiling for 99.999% of Eckists. The RESA position is
              just another badge to wear and does not bring with it higher consciousness
              either! It's all just more and more illusion and religious dogma!

              Prometheus
            • prometheus_973
              Klemp has given approval to share this H.I. article with all Eck Leaders! : ) I had just a few more comments (###) on Klemp s instructions to H.I. Eck Leaders.
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 10, 2006
                Klemp has given approval to share this H.I. article with all Eck Leaders! : )

                I had just a few more comments (###) on Klemp's instructions to H.I. Eck Leaders.
                Will there be more instructions in the Mystic World to have the Lower Initiates to
                keep an eye out for the Kal-Eck H.I. Foxes like Cheryl?


                [HK]: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf, There is a fox outside the henhouse, and it
                bears watching."

                [Me]: So, are Eckists now chickens rather than eagles? : )


                ### Interesting, since chickens do flock together and peck around and each
                other. Eagles do not travel in flocks... there is no pecking order with eagles.
                Also, aren't eagles predators... like foxes!


                [HK]: "You are a guardian of the henhouse, helping your RESA in making sure
                the ECK chelas in your area receive fair treatment from those who are above
                them in some service to ECK."

                [Me]: Yes, Klemp is definitely talking of Cheryl along with many other nasty,
                negative, power tripping, neo-Nazi, schizophrenic egomanics that are in positions
                of authority (H.I.s) within the Eckankar hierarchy! Klemp will now say the same! LOL!

                ### The LEM/Mahanta should have a clue, as well as, his RESAs if there is
                anything to this Eck INNER communication with the chelas. How can Kal-Eck
                foxes get Higher Initiations!



                [HK]: "These lovers of truth and the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master deserve fair
                treatment. Most ECK leaders show them that courtesy. However, a few do not."

                [Me]: Actually, if Eckists were real Truth Seekers they would do a slow read and
                contemplation of Confessions of a God Seeker. Also, there are more than just a
                "few" ECK leaders that DO NOT show other H.I.s, and especially lower initiates,
                respect or courtesy. Many are ego driven dictators of various sorts.

                ### Yes, and Cheryl is still on various Eckankar Internet sites! How can this Kal-Eck
                Fox not be censored, booted from all Eck sites, and not be demoted to a 1st!



                [HK]: "Much of the ECK work is borne by chelas who do so out of pure love. There
                is no remuneration involved. Their spiritual blessings are great, far greater than
                receiving a pot of gold filled to the brim. So they represent love."

                [Me]: Well, the "remuneration" for many ECKists is with rewards of power and ego
                via initiation rank or settler position. That's why there are so many problems, and
                the RESAs aren't doing their jobs! Some RESAs just delegate everything to others
                and these ECK leaders are part of the problem that HK is speaking of. Many RESAs
                are not all that advanced spiritually. BTW - Whose the RESA over the Internet? There
                isn't one!

                ### It's easy to say that someone (Eckists) represents love, but it's another
                thing to demonstrate it in words and actions.



                [HK]: "The fox stands for power. He is ruthless and sees a house full of chicken
                dinners. He feeds on the weak and helpless, on those who cannot defend themselves."

                [Me]: Yep, the "fox" is Cheryl and her Kal-Eck cohorts who are more like wolves
                in sheep's clothing.

                ### Twitchell, Gross, and Klemp were/are foxes too! Then again, religion in general
                feeds on the weak and helpless!



                [HK]: "Now, what kind of guardian would it be who stood by and let the fox, a power
                seeker, satisy his pleasure?"

                [Me]: Actually the "he" can also be a she! But yes, Cheryl (as well as some L.D.'s, etc.)
                certainly get pleasure from their little power trips of deleting and moderating HU-Chat
                member's posts while adding her <smiling> sly two-faced comments to belittle and
                negate.

                ### What kind of "Guardian" is Klemp to stand by and let this happen since 1981!
                These Kal-Eck foxes didn't just happen overnight! The chicken house has been
                raided for years and years without protection and the fox population has grown!



                [HK]: "Someone who knows what is going on, is in a position to do something about it,
                BUT purposely shuts his eyes to the problem--out of fear, perhaps, of offending the
                perpetrator--is an accomplice of the fox. How could he not be?"

                [Me]: This seems to indicate that Cheryl's RESA and the HU-Chat owner are just as
                guilty as the rabid fox Cheryl! However, it is (somewhat) a grey area since the Internet
                is international. This is why Klemp should take personal responsibility for Cheryl G. and
                her group of Kal-Eckists as well. Or, is HK saying that the RESAs should, also, monitor
                their chelas' behaviour on the Internet as well? It seems so! However, Klemp should have
                someone at the ESC to monitor all (official/unofficial) ECK sites and step in when
                necessary. 'Too little too late' should be Klemp's (Mr.Talks-a-lot) motto.

                ### Once again, why doesn't Klemp know what is going on? Why are Eckists closing
                their eyes and ears to truth? Maybe Eckists do fear hurting another's feelings but
                Klemp trained them to do this! HK can't have it both ways and is learning this truth
                the hard way.



                [HK]: "I was thinking about the constant struggle that exists between love and power,
                even among ECKists. You look at such people with their goose-stepping tactics and
                you wonder about them. Sometimes they almost seem to be schizophrenic, with
                opposing or antagonistic sides."

                [Me]: Yes! Klemp was looking in a mirror recently! This also sounds like he is describing
                Cheryl, but there are so many other Kal-Eckists like her!

                ### Klemp is a schizophrenic himself and uses goose-stepping tactics too! Look at
                how he dealt with Graham and Ford. Eckankar is an 'AS ABOVE SO BELOW religion,
                therefore, Klemp needs to take some responsibility for the bad chelas as well as the
                good ones. Or else, don't hand out High Initiations so easily and keep H.I.s that
                demonstrate Kal like behaviours. Walk the walk!



                [HK]: "On one hand, they are, they are ever so loving and helpful. BUT on the other,
                they are tromping on the rights of others with big, muddy boots. Yet they can't see
                themselves. Don't we all find it easier to spot a blemish in another instead of ourselves?
                Behind the boots is the ego. It is out of control and can thus do a great deal of harm.
                These goose-stepping people love power, not love. It is disheartening to see them.
                They intrude on the domain of others. Deep within a file cabinet they come across a
                vague rule that, if taken out of context, says the others are not in compliance with it."

                [Me]: So true Harry! Cheryl's big muddy boots are a walkin' while you're a talkin.'

                ### Klemp describes himself and his Kal-Eck cohorts perfectly. The problem with
                Cheryl is that she's not subtle and Klemp wants subtle Kal agents working for him.
                The lie is more believable with those who can at least act loving. The Kal-Eckists
                need to learn to take their loving faces off AFTER they get behind closed doors and
                off line! Then they need to put the loving face on again when dealing with the public.



                [HK]: "This steps on people lower in the pecking order, who must keep silent."

                [Me]: I like the analogy of the henhouse (chela/chickens) and pecking order (hierarchy).

                ### Eckists are trained to keep silent and now Klemp is complaining because they
                were trained too well?! Does Klemp want Lower Pecking Order Chelas to know all of
                this about his H.I. Foxes and that he sees them as Chickens?



                [HK]: "Long ago, as a Vahana in the field, I happened into a neighboring Mahdis's area
                to give an introductory lecture. This was in the old days, when the rules were not always
                drafted very well. That Mahdis complained to the ECK Office. So I found that the better
                part of valor was discretion, and thus wisely kept out of the area. What struct me was
                that the area wasn't growing! This Mahdis used up so much energy protecting her turf
                that she had neither the time or energy to do an adequate job of ECK Vahana work in
                her very populous area. It was sad."

                [Me]: Chicago is a populous area! Yes, so sad--I pitty the fools!

                ### At least this Mahdis was trying to protect her turf! How does Klemp protect his
                turf! Not too well from the Kal-Eck H.I. Foxes. HK's better at tearing into a lower
                initiate like Graham, or a non-Eck postal clerk, etc., etc. He's both judge and jury!



                [HK]: "She would not do it and acted like a bucket of cold water when others did show
                initiative. One such person can do so much damage to an organization, especially to
                one like ECKANKAR, because it places a lot of faith in volunteers and their love for the
                Master."

                [Me]: Come on Harold just issue an edict to your RESAs and to ESC Staffers to bring such
                behaviour to an end. Take some responsibility yourself! You're the one that gave these
                Kal-"ECK leaders" their Higher Initiations! What good is a 5th when Cheryl has one too!

                ### Klemp's blah blah blah is so boring. It's like he just woke up! Maybe Joan has
                updated him on what's going on in reality while he's been hiding out in a dark
                cave for all these years while writing his dribble. I wonder when the Nine Silent Ones
                will channel the Shariyats 3 & 4 to Klump? : )



                [HK]: "These foxes--power eaters--are extremely stubborn in their determination to
                dominate others. IF they could only see themselves. Their motto:
                'My way or the highway."

                [Me]: Cheryl has kicked people off of HU-Chat for saying the wrong thing. Many of
                these Kal-ECKists are just emulating Klemp and his nutty unloving words and
                behaviours. Their motto: As Above So Below - Loser!

                ### I wonder what it would take for Klemp to "see" himself! He is awfully stubborn
                and thick headed. I'll bet HK loves to dominate others including Joan. These Kal-Eck
                H.I. foxes must really be bugging Harry since they're doing the dominating now!



                [HK]: "Other approaches they favor include becoming overly familiar with an intended
                victim. Then they take control of the other's life. The goose-stepper, the fox, is thus
                guilty of violating the ECK precept of allowing others to have their freedom."

                [Me]: How is there real spiritual freedom within the Eckankar hierarchy with all of the
                rules and Guidelines and ass kissing going on, as well as, the dependency on the LEM/
                Mahanta! It's no wonder there are so many unbalanced and needy ECKists! Look at
                Klemp's example!

                ### Doesn't Klemp deny others freedom too! One cannot ever leave Eckankar
                according to Eck dogma. So Eckankar is also two-faced! But, Eckankar is a Kal
                based religion regardless of what is said. This is why HK knows nothing of what
                is really going on. Klemp just takes credit for everything anyone has ever dreamed.



                [HK]: "Such a person thinks that his ego is under control as much as that of another."

                [Me]: Well, you should know little Harry, but you give yourself away!

                [HK]: "He licks the boots of those above him in the hierarchy and expects those below
                him to lick his. He is truly schizophrenic. He and his like are few in number, BUT they
                do so much damage to the ECK missionary effort. They are like an atomic bomb
                exploding over a city."

                [Me]: So, Cheryl is a boot licker too! Once again Klemp claims that these Kal-Eckists
                are "few in number." I know better! And the bad thing is that they are in positions of
                power and authority within Eckankar. This is proof that Klemp is powerless and unaware
                or else he wouldn't need to put this into print. He would resolve the problem on his own!

                ### I'm rather surprised that Klemp is openingly sounding so nasty! HK's usually more
                subtle. And, He keeps repeating the goose-stepping (neo-Nazi), boot licking,
                schizophenric, out of control ego thing!
                Also, I doubt that Cheryl will ever get it or be reprimanded either! Most Eckists are very
                passive. Really though, Cheryl needs to be demoted to a First Initiate as an example to
                others, but Harry hasn't the guts to take on the big muddy boots of Cheryl!



                [HK]: "You may get reports of a fox operating in a Satsang class, as someone in charge
                of ECK into talks, or in other important ECK activities. Keep your eyes and ears open.
                Find out IF anything is behind the rumors, and inform the local ECK leadership or the
                RESA."

                [Me]: What happens if a RESA gets a report of a FOX being a moderator of HU-Chat?
                Nothing? And, what if the local ECK leadership or the RESA is part of the problem?
                Anyway, I find it funny that HK wants chelas to squeal on each other and to listen to
                "rumors." However, cleaning up the mess was why HK finally wrote those two leadership
                books. The real problem lies in the phoney initiations. One should have a higher
                consciousness before and after getting one and that's not the case! Catch-22 back at
                you! Hey, what ever happened to the RESA police?

                ### This advice to check out the rumors and squeal on others will be good news for
                the H.I. gossips like Stever. So, are these Eck Internet Sites Vahana Groups or Satsangs
                or both? Aren't all Eckists official vehicles for their LEM/Mahanta? Therefore, the Eckists
                that gather on those Eckankar sites are doing so as official Arahatas and Vahanas.



                [HK]: "Keep in mind that ECK chelas are precious Souls. They deserve love and respect.
                They're serving ECK out of love, not for a pot of gold. Sweep the way clear of a fox.
                Allow the ECK chelas to serve. Let them unfold, so that their spiritual reward can be
                greater than any pot of gold."

                [Me]: Isn't everyone a precious Soul? Harry, you're der fearless leader! Walk the walk!
                Have some follow-thru and some balls! I guess we'll just have to wait and see if anything
                will ever get done to protect those ECK chickens from the fox like Kal-ECK leaders/losers.
                Really HK, aren't you the LEM in charge at the ESC and over the RESAs! I hope you put
                something in the RESA Star about these Cheryl types! Will there be something else in
                the Mystic World? Hmmmmmm. Well, this seems to be something that is important,
                or else it never would have been mentioned! There are just no IFs, Ands, and BUTs about
                the importance of this is there! : )

                ### I wonder how long it will take to "Sweep the way clear of a fox!" Which RESA will be
                fearless and brave enough to take the first step? The way Eckankar works it will take ESC
                action before anything is done. Therefore, Cheryl and these Kal-Eck types will have a long
                reprieve until anything significant happens. Maybe there will be a five year de-foxing plan
                set into motion. Perhaps, the henhouse could be set up with outside motion detectors
                and cameras? Maybe the henhouse doors need to be fitted with dead bolt locks? Still,
                if invaded, who will come to the rescue of these poor chela/chickens?

                Prometheus
              • mishmisha9
                Hi, All! ] I thought it would be interesting to compare an excerpt from Harold s recent H.I. Newsletter to a post by Cheryl on Hu-Chat which examplifies the
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 11, 2006
                  Hi, All!
                  ]
                  I thought it would be interesting to compare an
                  excerpt from Harold's recent H.I. Newsletter to a
                  post by Cheryl on Hu-Chat which examplifies the
                  "fox" behavior HK is complaining about within his
                  eck leader (H.I.s) camp!


                  Harold wrote:
                  "I was thinking about the constant struggle that
                  exists have between love and power, even among
                  ECKists. You look at such people with their
                  goose-stepping tactics and you wonder about them.
                  Sometimes they almost seem to be schizophrenic,
                  with opposing or antagonistic sides.

                  On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful.
                  BUT on the other, they are tromping on the rights
                  of others with big, muddy boots. Yet they can't see
                  themselves.

                  Don't we all find it easier to spot a blemish in another
                  instead of ourselves? Behind the big boots is the ego.
                  It is out of control and can thus do a great deal of harm.
                  These goose- stepping people love power, not love.
                  It is disheartening to see them. They intrude into the
                  domain of others. Deep within a file cabinet they come
                  across a vague rule that, if taken out of context, says
                  the others are not in compliance with it.

                  This steps on people lower in the pecking order, who
                  must keep silent." (unquote)

                  This is Cheryl's "goose-stepping" response to a newbie
                  member's post on Hu-Chat:

                  "I'm sorry to hear that you're this intolerant and limited
                  in your vision of other souls, Jeri. A personal attack from
                  you publically is certainly one way that I can learn about
                  what you call 'love' in your life. I'll file that under "need
                  to know" for future reference!" (unquote)

                  Please note Harold's reference to "a file cabinet" and
                  Cheryl's threatening words, "I'll file that under 'need to
                  know' for future reference!" Rather obvious the
                  goose-stepping fox who cannot see herself as a big problem
                  for HK and eckankar is Cheryl! She is really a great detractor
                  of the teachings. I suspect that some of her Hu-Chatter
                  buddies are feeding her delusion of not seeing herself in
                  the words of the master! Yeah, there is a definite problem
                  on Hu-Chat--Harold knows it and doesn't like it, but it
                  seems the eckists there don't care what he thinks! LOL!

                  Mish
                • prometheus_973
                  Hi Mish, Yes, Klemp wrote: On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful and have such sad stories to tell as they look for sympathy in order to get one
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 11, 2006
                    Hi Mish,
                    Yes, Klemp wrote: "On one hand, they are ever
                    so loving and helpful" and have such sad stories
                    to tell as they look for sympathy in order to get
                    one to take their guard down while they move in
                    for the kill. Such is the case with HU-Chat Cheryl.
                    <sigh>

                    The big question for Eck H.I. Leaders and RESAs
                    is: Should there be a list for foxes "goose-stepping,"
                    and behaving "schizophrenic?" How about those H.I.s
                    that are "power seekers" and "perpetrators" and those
                    "with opposing or antagonistic sides?" What is the
                    criteria for being put on that list? It is clear that HU-
                    Chat Cheryl should be on the list but who else? HK
                    will have to give some direction in the RESA Star.

                    Let's face it, the Internet Eck Sites can help or harm
                    Eckankar. However, it speaks volumns as to the validity
                    of the Eck teachings when H.I.s like Cheryl and company
                    are permitted to be so negative, unfriendly, and Kal
                    (Satan) like as Eck H.I. Vahana (missionary) leaders.

                    When Eckists, and the public alike, see this kind of
                    "antagonistic" behaviour from an "out of control" ego
                    and a "power seeker" with a 20 year membership
                    and a H.I. like Cheryl, What are they to think about
                    Eckankar?

                    The big problem that Klemp has is: Getting his Eck
                    Leaders to report these "foxes" to the RESAs! In each
                    region there should be at least one Eckist put on the
                    "fox" list. Unfortunately, most Eckists do not participate
                    all that much for these foxes to show their heads.
                    Besides, foxes are much more sly than chickens and
                    they have holes to hide in. Hey, what happened to the
                    farmer in HK's little analogy? Shouldn't the farmer (LEM)
                    be responsible for the safety of his chickens? It seems
                    that the farmer hasn't been doing his chores for a long
                    time! Maybe too much time and money was spent on
                    building a new farmhouse, barn, and shed without
                    attending to the farm animals and garden!

                    Also, it is obvious that Cheryl should be on the chicken
                    sh_t list so now what is her RESA to do? Will the ESC get
                    involved too... it should! As I said before... HK needs
                    to make an example of these people. Why would HK
                    allow Kal-Eckists to remain in Eckankar, unless, this
                    was a Kalistic Religion just like all the rest! Is the
                    LEM/Mahanta a 2nd or 4th Plane God? How can a
                    negative person like Cheryl be given a 5th? How can
                    other foxes be 7ths and RESAs? Why are RESAs afraid
                    to act? Would they be hurting their friends and those
                    they rely upon to get things done? Inquiring minds want
                    to know!

                    Prometheus




                    Mish wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi, All!
                    > ]
                    > I thought it would be interesting to compare an
                    > excerpt from Harold's recent H.I. Newsletter to a
                    > post by Cheryl on Hu-Chat which examplifies the
                    > "fox" behavior HK is complaining about within his
                    > eck leader (H.I.s) camp!
                    >
                    >
                    > Harold wrote:
                    > "I was thinking about the constant struggle that
                    > exists have between love and power, even among
                    > ECKists. You look at such people with their
                    > goose-stepping tactics and you wonder about them.
                    > Sometimes they almost seem to be schizophrenic,
                    > with opposing or antagonistic sides.
                    >
                    > On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful.
                    > BUT on the other, they are tromping on the rights
                    > of others with big, muddy boots. Yet they can't see
                    > themselves.
                    >
                    > Don't we all find it easier to spot a blemish in another
                    > instead of ourselves? Behind the big boots is the ego.
                    > It is out of control and can thus do a great deal of harm.
                    > These goose- stepping people love power, not love.
                    > It is disheartening to see them. They intrude into the
                    > domain of others. Deep within a file cabinet they come
                    > across a vague rule that, if taken out of context, says
                    > the others are not in compliance with it.
                    >
                    > This steps on people lower in the pecking order, who
                    > must keep silent." (unquote)
                    >
                    > This is Cheryl's "goose-stepping" response to a newbie
                    > member's post on Hu-Chat:
                    >
                    > "I'm sorry to hear that you're this intolerant and limited
                    > in your vision of other souls, Jeri. A personal attack from
                    > you publically is certainly one way that I can learn about
                    > what you call 'love' in your life. I'll file that under "need
                    > to know" for future reference!" (unquote)
                    >
                    > Please note Harold's reference to "a file cabinet" and
                    > Cheryl's threatening words, "I'll file that under 'need to
                    > know' for future reference!" Rather obvious the
                    > goose-stepping fox who cannot see herself as a big problem
                    > for HK and eckankar is Cheryl! She is really a great detractor
                    > of the teachings. I suspect that some of her Hu-Chatter
                    > buddies are feeding her delusion of not seeing herself in
                    > the words of the master! Yeah, there is a definite problem
                    > on Hu-Chat--Harold knows it and doesn't like it, but it
                    > seems the eckists there don't care what he thinks! LOL!
                    >
                    > Mish
                    >
                  • prometheus_973
                    What I find interesting, too, is that Klemp is only talking about the female (HENS) being protected from the FOX. I ll bet the FOXES are both male and female!
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 15, 2006
                      What I find interesting, too, is that Klemp is only talking about
                      the female (HENS) being protected from the FOX. I'll bet the FOXES
                      are both male and female! What about the ECK ROOSTERS?

                      Prometheus

                      HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,

                      There is a FOX outside the HENHOUSE, and it bears watching.
                      You are a guardian of the HENHOUSE, helping your RESA
                      in making sure the ECK chelas in your area receive FAIR
                      treatment from THOSE WHO ARE ABOVE THEM in some service
                      to ECK.

                      These lovers of truth and the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master
                      deserve fair treatment. MOST ECK LEADERS show them that courtesy.
                      However, A FEW DO NOT.

                      Much of the ECK work is borne by chelas who do so out of pure
                      love. There is no remuneration involved. Their spiritual blessings
                      are great, far greater than receiving a pot of gold filled to the
                      brim. So they represent love.

                      The FOX stands for POWER. He is RUTHLESS and sees a house full
                      of CHICKEN dinners. He feeds on the weak and helpless, on those
                      who cannot defend themselves.

                      Now, what kind of guardian would it be who stood by and let the
                      FOX, a POWER SEEKER, satisfy his pleasure?

                      SOMEONE WHO KNOWS what is going on, is in a POSITION to do
                      something about it, BUT PURPOSELY SHUTS HIS EYES to the PROBLEM
                      --out of FEAR, perhaps, of OFFENDING the PERPETRATOR--IS AN
                      ACCOMPLICE of the FOX. How could he not be?

                      I was thinking about the constant struggle that exists between LOVE
                      and POWER, EVEN AMONG ECKists. You look at such people with their
                      GOOSE-STEPPING TACTICS and you wonder about them. Sometimes
                      they almost seem to be SCHIZOPHRENIC, with OPPOSING or ANTAGONISTIC
                      sides.

                      On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful. BUT on the other,
                      they are TROMPING on the rights of others with BIG, MUDDY BOOTS.
                      YET THEY CAN'T SEE THEMSELVES.

                      Don't we all find it easier to spot a BLEMISH in another instead of
                      ourselves? Behind the BIG BOOTS is the EGO. It is OUT OF CONTROL
                      and can thus do a GREAT DEAL OF HARM. These GOOSE-STEPPING
                      people LOVE POWER, NOT LOVE. It is DISHEARTENING to see them.
                      They INTRUDE into the domain of others. Deep within a FILE CABINET
                      they come across a VAGUE RULE that, if taken out of context, says the
                      others are not in compliance with it.

                      This steps on people LOWER in the PECKING ORDER, who must
                      keep silent.

                      Long ago, as a Vahana in the field, I happened into a neighboring
                      Mahdis's area to give an introductory lecture. This was in the old
                      days, when the rules were not always drafted very well. That Mahdis
                      complained to the ECK Office. So I found that the better part of valor
                      was discretion, and thus wisely kept out of the area. What struct me
                      was that the area wasn't growing! This Mahdis used up so much energy
                      protecting her turf that she had neither the time nor energy to do an
                      adequate job of ECK Vahana work in her very populous area. It was sad.

                      She would not do it and acted like a bucket of cold water when
                      others did show initiative. One such person can do so much damage
                      to an organization, especially to one like ECKANKAR, because it places
                      a lot of faith in volunteers and their love for the Master.

                      These FOXES--POWER EATERS--are EXTREMELY STUBBORN in their
                      determination to DOMINATE others. IF they could only SEE themselves.
                      Their motto: 'MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.'

                      Other approaches they favor include becoming overly familiar
                      with an intended VICTIM. Then they take control of the other's life.
                      The GOOSE-STEPPER, the FOX, is thus GUILTY of VIOLATING the ECK
                      PRECEPT of allowing others to have their freedom.

                      Such a person thinks that his EGO is under control as much as that
                      of another.

                      He LICKS the BOOTS of THOSE ABOVE him in the HIERARCHY and expects
                      those BELOW him to LICK his. He is truly SCHIZOPHRENIC. He and his like
                      are few in number, BUT They Do So Much Damage to the ECK Missionary
                      Effort. They are like an ATOMIC BOMB exploding over a city.

                      You may get reports of a fox operating in a Satsang class, as someone
                      in charge of ECK intro talks, or in Other Important ECK activities.
                      Keep your Eyes and Ears Open. FIND OUT IF anything is behind the RUMORS,
                      and INFORM the local ECK leadership or the RESA.

                      Keep in mind that ECK chelas are precious Souls. They deserve love
                      and respect. They're serving ECK out of love, not for a pot of gold.
                      Sweep The Way Clear of a FOX. Allow the ECK chelas to serve. Let them
                      unfold, so that their spiritual reward can be greater than any pot of
                      gold.

                      Harold"
                    • prometheus_973
                      I have some new comments about these latest instructions to ECK Leaders by their LEM/Mahanta. I have to wonder, however, are the FOXES the losers or are the
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 19, 2006
                        I have some new comments about these latest instructions
                        to ECK Leaders by their LEM/Mahanta. I have to wonder,
                        however, are the FOXES the "losers" or are the chelas that
                        they influence the "losers?"


                        HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,

                        There is a FOX outside the HENHOUSE, and it bears watching.
                        You are a guardian of the HENHOUSE, helping your RESA
                        in making sure the ECK Chelas in your area receive FAIR
                        treatment from THOSE WHO ARE ABOVE THEM in some service
                        to ECK."

                        ### Actually, the FOX is INSIDE the HENHOUSE! Unfortunately
                        for the true blue ECKist there have never been standards that
                        really measure consciousness, ethics, or the competent skills
                        and behaviours for those that are Higher Initiates. The ECK
                        Initiations are just longivity badges. Lower Initiate Chelas
                        often make the mistake of placing H.I.s on a pedestal because
                        they are told that Higher Initiations indicate a Higher Con-
                        sciousness.

                        HK: "These lovers of truth and the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master
                        deserve fair treatment. MOST ECK LEADERS show them that courtesy.
                        However, A FEW DO NOT."

                        ### There really has to be more than just a "FEW" who Do Not
                        treat other ECKists fairly! Klemp wouldn't be writing this if there
                        were just a "few" H.I.s that were causing problems!

                        HK: "Much of the ECK work is borne by chelas who do so out of pure
                        love. There is no remuneration involved. Their spiritual blessings
                        are great, far greater than receiving a pot of gold filled to the
                        brim. So they represent love."

                        ### As I said before, KLEMP IS BEING DECEPTIVE when he states that
                        there is "NO REMUNERATION INVOLVED." Everyone knows that this
                        is false because it has been stated, implied, and demonstrated that
                        there are rewards! Position and Initiation Number are the indicators
                        of outer remuneration and the mind's imagination will fill in the rest
                        in regard to inner remuneration.

                        HK: "The FOX stands for POWER. He is RUTHLESS and sees a house full
                        of CHICKEN dinners. He feeds on the weak and helpless, on those
                        who cannot defend themselves."

                        ### I still can't figure out why the FARMER/LEM hasn't been aware of
                        the FOXES before or taken measures to protect his chicken/chelas?

                        HK: "Now, what kind of guardian would it be who stood by and let the
                        FOX, a POWER SEEKER, satisfy his pleasure?"

                        ### Well, what kind of a GUARDIAN has Klemp been? Not a very good
                        one it seems! Shouldn't the LEM/Mahanta be doing a better job?! Why
                        isn't he! What's wrong with this picture?

                        HK: "SOMEONE WHO KNOWS what is going on, is in a POSITION to do
                        something about it, BUT PURPOSELY SHUTS HIS EYES to the PROBLEM
                        --out of FEAR, perhaps, of OFFENDING the PERPETRATOR--IS AN
                        ACCOMPLICE of the FOX. How could he not be?"

                        ### So why Doesn't the LEM/Mahanta KNOW what is going on? HK is
                        certainly "in a position to do something about it." Is Klemp purposely
                        shutting "his eyes to the problem--out of fear perhaps, of offending the
                        perpetrator?" Maybe Klemp, also, is an "accomplice of the FOX!" Either
                        HK is a accomplice of the KAL-ECK H.I. FOX, or the LEM/Mahanta has
                        no power, awareness, or control of the situation!

                        HK: "I was thinking about the constant struggle that exists between
                        LOVE and POWER, EVEN AMONG ECKists. You look at such people
                        with their GOOSE-STEPPING TACTICS and you wonder about them.
                        Sometimes they almost seem to be SCHIZOPHRENIC, with OPPOSING
                        or ANTAGONISTIC sides."

                        ### Since Klemp has been informed of the "Goose-Stepping Tactics"
                        and the "Schizophrenic," "Opposing," and "Antagonistic" Behaviours
                        of these Power Loving KAL-ECKists... why hasn't he done anything?
                        This didn't just happen overnight!

                        HK: "On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful. BUT on the
                        other, they are TROMPING on the rights of others with BIG, MUDDY
                        BOOTS. YET THEY CAN'T SEE THEMSELVES."

                        ### Perhaps ECKANKAR should emphasize more self-reflection,
                        and correct improper communication techniques and bad behaviour
                        through special one-to-one classes for those that don't quite GET IT.
                        That's it! ECKANKAR should have a Re-Indoctrination Class for the
                        KAL-ECK H.I. FOXES and retrain them to act "as if" they are more
                        spiritually evolved.

                        HK: "Don't we all find it easier to spot a BLEMISH in another instead
                        of ourselves? Behind the BIG BOOTS is the EGO. It is OUT OF CONTROL
                        and can thus do a GREAT DEAL OF HARM. These GOOSE-STEPPING
                        people LOVE POWER, NOT LOVE. It is DISHEARTENING to see them.
                        They INTRUDE into the domain of others. Deep within a FILE CABINET
                        they come across a VAGUE RULE that, if taken out of context, says the
                        others are not in compliance with it."

                        ### True, about seeing the blemish in someone else and not in one's
                        self! This certainly applies to Klemp since he has always made
                        judgments of others and has never admitted to anything, or to where
                        he had made a mistake or been wrong. The most Klemp has ever
                        admitted to is when he states that nobody is perfect! Therefore, HK is
                        a hypocrite! And, why should other H.I.s should be the "guardians"
                        for him? Klemp should quit passing the buck! Then, again, they do
                        say that sh_t runs downhill. LOL!

                        HK: "This steps on people LOWER in the PECKING ORDER, who must
                        keep silent."

                        ### Isn't it funny that Klemp uses the term HENHOUSE and PECKING
                        ORDER to describe the ECK Chelas and the ECKANKAR Hierarchy! Was
                        this a Freudian slip that really indicates what he thinks of his
                        followers?

                        HK: "Long ago, as a Vahana in the field, I happened into a neighboring
                        Mahdis's area to give an introductory lecture. This was in the old
                        days, when the rules were not always drafted very well. That Mahdis
                        complained to the ECK Office. So I found that the better part of valor
                        was discretion, and thus wisely kept out of the area. What struct me
                        was that the area wasn't growing! This Mahdis used up so much energy
                        protecting her turf that she had neither the time nor energy to do an
                        adequate job of ECK Vahana work in her very populous area. It was sad.

                        She would not do it and acted like a bucket of cold water when
                        others did show initiative. One such person can do so much damage
                        to an organization, especially to one like ECKANKAR, because it places
                        a lot of faith in volunteers and their love for the Master."

                        ### So, was she too a FOX? Was Darwin Gross FOX or FOWL?
                        Was D.G. a FOX or FOWL when he passed the ROD to H.K.?

                        HK: "These FOXES--POWER EATERS--are EXTREMELY STUBBORN in their
                        determination to DOMINATE others. IF they could only SEE themselves.
                        Their motto: 'MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.'"

                        ### It seems that this is the case on HU-Chat! I wonder why Klemp
                        permits the negative behaviours of these ECK site moderators/
                        Vahanas? The "Section 8" HU-Chat S.O.P. is Crazy! LOL!

                        HK: "Other approaches they favor include becoming overly familiar
                        with an intended VICTIM. Then they take control of the other's life.
                        The GOOSE-STEPPER, the FOX, is thus GUILTY of VIOLATING the ECK
                        PRECEPT of allowing others to have their freedom."

                        ### Yes, this sounds like those HU-CHAT Moderators for sure! It
                        seems they are taking advantage of their weak and fearful RESAs
                        and those timid and confused staffers at the ESC. Isn't Joan in
                        charge of RESA Services? I wonder why nothing is being done about
                        the HU-Chat Cheryl type of KAL FOXES? Maybe Klemp is ALL BARK and
                        NO BITE? Where's his responsibility, for taking action, to the TRUE
                        BLUE ECKists?

                        HK: "Such a person Thinks that his EGO is under control as much as that
                        of another.

                        He LICKS the BOOTS of THOSE ABOVE him in the HIERARCHY and expects
                        those BELOW him to LICK his. He is truly SCHIZOPHRENIC. He and his like
                        are few in number, BUT They Do So Much Damage to the ECK Missionary
                        Effort. They are like an ATOMIC BOMB exploding over a city."

                        ### Maybe Cheryl's BOOT LICKING is what's keeping her RESA from doing
                        something? Or, maybe her RESA is afraid of her! Yes, CHERYL "IS TRULY
                        SCHIZOPHRENIC!" And, let's face it... Cheryl's EGO is way out-of-control!

                        HK: "You may get Reports of a FOX Operating in a SATSANG CLASS,
                        as SOMEONE IN CHARGE of ECK INTRO TALKS, or in OTHER Important
                        ECK Activities. KEEP YOUR EYES and EARS OPEN. FIND OUT IF Anything
                        is Behind the RUMORS, and INFORM the Local ECK Leadership or the RESA."

                        ### See, now this is why Aranata Training should be pass/fail and why
                        Not everyone should automatically be passed! However, this too is one
                        of the flaws behind ECKANKAR. It is an assumption that those with Higher
                        Initiations are guided by the Mahanta, and are advanced spiritually and
                        that this spiritual advancement has nothing to do with outer behaviours
                        since nobody is perfect! Therefore, H.I.'s have a free pass to get away
                        with bad behaviour and irresponsibility to follow the ECK Dogma,
                        Guidelines, Zoas and other rules of conduct for Arahatas/Vahanas
                        and H.I.s.

                        HK: "Keep in mind that ECK chelas are precious Souls. They deserve love
                        and respect. They're serving ECK out of love, not for a pot of gold.
                        SWEEP The WAY CLEAR of a FOX. Allow the ECK chelas to serve. Let them
                        unfold, so that their spiritual reward can be greater than any pot of
                        gold. Harold"

                        ### I think that ECKisats will be seeing Bumps Under the Rug after,
                        whoever (?), will SWEEP THE WAY CLEAR of these FOXES. Isn't it also
                        interesting that Klemp just signs this with "Harold." It seems that he
                        is somewhat pissed off that his RESAs are so passive and fearful!
                        This is why the ESC should be handling this problem with HU-Chat
                        Cheryl and other KAL-ECK FOXES. Most RESAs are incapable of doing
                        the right thing because they rely on these FOXES and their Cohorts,
                        and they are friends with many of these FOXES too! Let's face it -
                        Who's going to point fingers at someone else when they have their
                        own blemishes? See the problem that Klemp has created. Eckankar is
                        an endless cycle of delusion and confusion that keep the ignorant
                        in a state of imbalance. That's why ECKists need to rely and submit
                        to Klemp who is now relying on them to find the FOXES. Does that
                        make sense?

                        Prometheus
                      • prometheus_973
                        It s interesting to see the negativity from HU-Chat H.I.s continue even after this recent H.I. Letter! These H.I. FOXES disregard the SOP of the HU-Chat
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 21, 2006
                          It's interesting to see the negativity from HU-Chat H.I.s continue
                          even after this recent H.I. Letter! These H.I. FOXES disregard the
                          SOP of the HU-Chat Community. Just read the SOP "Introduction"
                          and see the statement that the "HU-Chat community" is a "warm
                          and friendly place," with "consideration and fellowship," or that
                          it is like a "cozy cafe" or a "sponsered ECKANKAR event" whose
                          "atmosphere is loving, spiritual, causal, and warm." What a joke!

                          These hypocrites are H.I. FOXES! Yes, Steve R., Cheryl G. (of
                          course), Frank, Val, Joe, etc., etc. are all hypocrites of their own
                          SOP and are KAL-ECK "FOXES" as described in these current words
                          by their LEM/Mahanta.

                          However, it seems that many of these H.I.s don't value the Outer
                          Teachings and view all "written or spoken" ECK material as being
                          Lower Mental Plane spiritual teachings. Anything of "real" substance
                          comes from the Higher "Inner" Planes or from the "HEART." The Lower
                          Mental Plane is of the KAL and, therefore, the Written Shariyats
                          and all Written Words/ECK Works (even those of Klemp) are
                          subject to individual interpretation (opinion) and are, also,
                          distortions of higher Truth that can only be found on the INNER
                          via the Heart Center. Apparently these deluded H.I. FOXES think
                          or assume that the "Heart" Center (Heart Chakra) is Higher than
                          the Tisra Til or the Crown Chakra (BTW-all chakras are of the Astral).

                          Anyway, this is why these deluded H.I. FOXES disregard this current
                          H.I. LETTER. They can't see themselves (the FOX) in the mirror! They
                          must think Klemp (their LEM/Mahanta) is just blowing off steam or
                          is talking of someone else! Then again, if these FOXES see all written
                          and spoken words as Lower Plane ramblings that are just vague guides-
                          lines until Higher Truth is revealed on the INNER then I wonder why
                          they still think that they need a LEM? In a sense they, like Twitchell,
                          have become their own Compilers of Truth and their own LEM!

                          Prometheus



                          ******************************************************************
                          HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,

                          There is a FOX outside the HENHOUSE, and it bears watching.
                          You are a Guardian of the HENHOUSE, helping your RESA
                          in making sure the ECK chelas in your area receive FAIR
                          treatment from THOSE WHO ARE ABOVE THEM in Some Service
                          to ECK.

                          These lovers of truth and the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master
                          deserve fair treatment. MOST ECK LEADERS show them that Courtesy.
                          However, A FEW DO NOT.

                          Much of the ECK work is borne by chelas who do so out of pure
                          love. There is no remuneration involved. Their spiritual blessings
                          are great, far greater than receiving a pot of gold filled to the
                          brim. So They Represent Love.

                          The FOX stands for POWER. He is RUTHLESS and sees a house full
                          of CHICKEN dinners. He feeds on the weak and helpless, on those
                          who cannot defend themselves.

                          Now, what kind of guardian would it be who stood by and let the
                          FOX, a POWER SEEKER, satisfy his pleasure?

                          SOMEONE WHO KNOWS what is going on, is in a POSITION to do
                          something about it, BUT PURPOSELY SHUTS HIS EYES to the PROBLEM
                          --out of FEAR, perhaps, of OFFENDING the PERPETRATOR--IS AN
                          ACCOMPLICE of the FOX. How could he not be?

                          I was thinking about the constant struggle that exists between LOVE
                          and POWER, EVEN AMONG ECKists. You look at such people with their
                          GOOSE-STEPPING TACTICS and you wonder about them. Sometimes
                          they almost seem to be SCHIZOPHRENIC, with OPPOSING or ANTAGONISTIC
                          sides.

                          On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful. BUT on the other,
                          they are TROMPING on the rights of others with BIG, MUDDY BOOTS.
                          YET THEY CAN'T SEE THEMSELVES.

                          Don't we all find it easier to spot a BLEMISH in another instead of
                          ourselves? Behind the BIG BOOTS is the EGO. It is OUT OF CONTROL
                          and can thus do a GREAT DEAL OF HARM. These GOOSE-STEPPING
                          people LOVE POWER, NOT LOVE. It is DISHEARTENING to see them.
                          They INTRUDE into the domain of others. Deep within a FILE CABINET
                          they come across a VAGUE RULE that, if taken out of context, says the
                          others are not in compliance with it.

                          This steps on people LOWER in the PECKING ORDER, who must
                          keep silent.

                          Long ago, as a Vahana in the field, I happened into a neighboring
                          Mahdis's area to give an introductory lecture. This was in the old
                          days, when the rules were not always drafted very well. That Mahdis
                          complained to the ECK Office. So I found that the better part of valor
                          was discretion, and thus wisely kept out of the area. What struct me
                          was that the area wasn't growing! This Mahdis used up so much energy
                          protecting her turf that she had neither the time nor energy to do an
                          adequate job of ECK Vahana work in her very populous area. It was sad.

                          She would not do it and acted like a bucket of cold water when
                          others did show initiative. One such person can do so much damage
                          to an organization, especially to one like ECKANKAR, because it places
                          a lot of faith in volunteers and their love for the Master.

                          These FOXES--POWER EATERS--are EXTREMELY STUBBORN in their
                          determination to DOMINATE others. IF THEY COULD ONLY SEE THEMSELVES.
                          Their motto: 'MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.'

                          Other approaches they favor include becoming overly familiar
                          with an intended VICTIM. Then they take control of the other's life.
                          The GOOSE-STEPPER, the FOX, is thus GUILTY of VIOLATING the ECK
                          PRECEPT of Allowing Others To Have Their Freedom.

                          Such a person thinks that his EGO is under control as much as that
                          of another.

                          He [She] LICKS the BOOTS of THOSE ABOVE him [her] in the HIERARCHY
                          and expects those BELOW him to LICK his [hers]. He [She] is truly
                          SCHIZOPHRENIC. He [She] and his [her] like are few in number, BUT
                          They Do So Much Damage to the ECK Missionary Effort. They are like
                          an ATOMIC BOMB Exploding Over A City.

                          You may get reports of a FOX operating in a Satsang Class, as Someone
                          In Charge of ECK Intro Talks, or in Other Important ECK Activities.
                          Keep your Eyes and Ears Open. FIND OUT IF Anything is behind the
                          RUMORS, and INFORM the Local ECK Leadership or the RESA.

                          Keep in mind that ECK Chelas are precious Souls. They deserve Love
                          and Respect. They're serving ECK out of love, not for a pot of gold.
                          Sweep The Way Clear of a FOX. Allow the ECK Chelas to serve. Let them
                          unfold, so that their spiritual reward can be greater than any pot of
                          gold.

                          Harold"

                          [My caps and bracked additions]

                          Prometheus
                        • mishmisha9
                          Obviously, these H.I.s on Hu-Chat are not getting it on the inner either, thus, proving the initiations are truly bogus. They are power tripping individuals
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 21, 2006
                            Obviously, these H.I.s on Hu-Chat are not getting it
                            on the inner either, thus, proving the initiations are
                            truly bogus. They are power tripping individuals who
                            slip on a religious robe in order to feed their own
                            self-serving egos. It seems that Hu-Chat needs some
                            sort of cleansing for sure--it is not a safe haven for
                            eckists unless one wants to be borglike! Pity and
                            shame on them: Cheryl, Steve R., Joe Homsey and the
                            other unkind, unloving, untrusting, and obviously out
                            of touch with the mahanta kal eckists. They have
                            established their own narrow dark path and are
                            working hard to direct the sincere and loving chelas
                            to follow their lead rather than the lead of their beloved
                            mahanta. Really shame on them! Sarah needs to step
                            up to the plate as owner of the Hu-Chat site--she is
                            "the guardian" Harold instructed in the H.I. Newsletter
                            to protect that community (henhouse) from the "foxes!"
                            Harold's words: "Keep in mind that ECK chelas are
                            precious Souls. They deserve love and respect. They're
                            serving ECK out of love, not for a pot of gold. Sweep the
                            way clear of a fox. Allow the ECK chelas to serve. Let
                            them unfold, so that their spiritual reward can be greater
                            than any pot of gold." It doesn't sound like Harold would
                            like what Cheryl, Steve R., Joe Homsey and company are
                            doing on Hu-Chat. They easily instruct others to go to
                            the inner to find truth while they certainly haven't found
                            their way there as of yet. I doubt very much if they have
                            experienced anything on the inner(except for the lower
                            astral regions) or they wouldn't be behaving so cruelly
                            and so wrongly with all their accusations and attacks.
                            They concern themselves only with themselves--their
                            inflated egos! A fine mix of stupidity, arrogance and
                            insanity! Gee, it must suck to be them! : )

                            Mish


                            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > It's interesting to see the negativity from HU-Chat H.I.s continue
                            > even after this recent H.I. Letter! These H.I. FOXES disregard the
                            > SOP of the HU-Chat Community. Just read the SOP "Introduction"
                            > and see the statement that the "HU-Chat community" is a "warm
                            > and friendly place," with "consideration and fellowship," or that
                            > it is like a "cozy cafe" or a "sponsered ECKANKAR event" whose
                            > "atmosphere is loving, spiritual, causal, and warm." What a joke!
                            >
                            > These hypocrites are H.I. FOXES! Yes, Steve R., Cheryl G. (of
                            > course), Frank, Val, Joe, etc., etc. are all hypocrites of their own
                            > SOP and are KAL-ECK "FOXES" as described in these current words
                            > by their LEM/Mahanta.
                            >
                            > However, it seems that many of these H.I.s don't value the Outer
                            > Teachings and view all "written or spoken" ECK material as being
                            > Lower Mental Plane spiritual teachings. Anything of "real" substance
                            > comes from the Higher "Inner" Planes or from the "HEART." The Lower
                            > Mental Plane is of the KAL and, therefore, the Written Shariyats
                            > and all Written Words/ECK Works (even those of Klemp) are
                            > subject to individual interpretation (opinion) and are, also,
                            > distortions of higher Truth that can only be found on the INNER
                            > via the Heart Center. Apparently these deluded H.I. FOXES think
                            > or assume that the "Heart" Center (Heart Chakra) is Higher than
                            > the Tisra Til or the Crown Chakra (BTW-all chakras are of the Astral).
                            >
                            > Anyway, this is why these deluded H.I. FOXES disregard this current
                            > H.I. LETTER. They can't see themselves (the FOX) in the mirror! They
                            > must think Klemp (their LEM/Mahanta) is just blowing off steam or
                            > is talking of someone else! Then again, if these FOXES see all written
                            > and spoken words as Lower Plane ramblings that are just vague guides-
                            > lines until Higher Truth is revealed on the INNER then I wonder why
                            > they still think that they need a LEM? In a sense they, like Twitchell,
                            > have become their own Compilers of Truth and their own LEM!
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ******************************************************************
                            > HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
                            >
                            > There is a FOX outside the HENHOUSE, and it bears watching.
                            > You are a Guardian of the HENHOUSE, helping your RESA
                            > in making sure the ECK chelas in your area receive FAIR
                            > treatment from THOSE WHO ARE ABOVE THEM in Some Service
                            > to ECK.
                            >
                            > These lovers of truth and the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master
                            > deserve fair treatment. MOST ECK LEADERS show them that Courtesy.
                            > However, A FEW DO NOT.
                            >
                            > Much of the ECK work is borne by chelas who do so out of pure
                            > love. There is no remuneration involved. Their spiritual blessings
                            > are great, far greater than receiving a pot of gold filled to the
                            > brim. So They Represent Love.
                            >
                            > The FOX stands for POWER. He is RUTHLESS and sees a house full
                            > of CHICKEN dinners. He feeds on the weak and helpless, on those
                            > who cannot defend themselves.
                            >
                            > Now, what kind of guardian would it be who stood by and let the
                            > FOX, a POWER SEEKER, satisfy his pleasure?
                            >
                            > SOMEONE WHO KNOWS what is going on, is in a POSITION to do
                            > something about it, BUT PURPOSELY SHUTS HIS EYES to the PROBLEM
                            > --out of FEAR, perhaps, of OFFENDING the PERPETRATOR--IS AN
                            > ACCOMPLICE of the FOX. How could he not be?
                            >
                            > I was thinking about the constant struggle that exists between LOVE
                            > and POWER, EVEN AMONG ECKists. You look at such people with their
                            > GOOSE-STEPPING TACTICS and you wonder about them. Sometimes
                            > they almost seem to be SCHIZOPHRENIC, with OPPOSING or ANTAGONISTIC
                            > sides.
                            >
                            > On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful. BUT on the other,
                            > they are TROMPING on the rights of others with BIG, MUDDY BOOTS.
                            > YET THEY CAN'T SEE THEMSELVES.
                            >
                            > Don't we all find it easier to spot a BLEMISH in another instead of
                            > ourselves? Behind the BIG BOOTS is the EGO. It is OUT OF CONTROL
                            > and can thus do a GREAT DEAL OF HARM. These GOOSE-STEPPING
                            > people LOVE POWER, NOT LOVE. It is DISHEARTENING to see them.
                            > They INTRUDE into the domain of others. Deep within a FILE CABINET
                            > they come across a VAGUE RULE that, if taken out of context, says the
                            > others are not in compliance with it.
                            >
                            > This steps on people LOWER in the PECKING ORDER, who must
                            > keep silent.
                            >
                            > Long ago, as a Vahana in the field, I happened into a neighboring
                            > Mahdis's area to give an introductory lecture. This was in the old
                            > days, when the rules were not always drafted very well. That Mahdis
                            > complained to the ECK Office. So I found that the better part of valor
                            > was discretion, and thus wisely kept out of the area. What struct me
                            > was that the area wasn't growing! This Mahdis used up so much energy
                            > protecting her turf that she had neither the time nor energy to do an
                            > adequate job of ECK Vahana work in her very populous area. It was sad.
                            >
                            > She would not do it and acted like a bucket of cold water when
                            > others did show initiative. One such person can do so much damage
                            > to an organization, especially to one like ECKANKAR, because it places
                            > a lot of faith in volunteers and their love for the Master.
                            >
                            > These FOXES--POWER EATERS--are EXTREMELY STUBBORN in their
                            > determination to DOMINATE others. IF THEY COULD ONLY SEE THEMSELVES.
                            > Their motto: 'MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.'
                            >
                            > Other approaches they favor include becoming overly familiar
                            > with an intended VICTIM. Then they take control of the other's life.
                            > The GOOSE-STEPPER, the FOX, is thus GUILTY of VIOLATING the ECK
                            > PRECEPT of Allowing Others To Have Their Freedom.
                            >
                            > Such a person thinks that his EGO is under control as much as that
                            > of another.
                            >
                            > He [She] LICKS the BOOTS of THOSE ABOVE him [her] in the HIERARCHY
                            > and expects those BELOW him to LICK his [hers]. He [She] is truly
                            > SCHIZOPHRENIC. He [She] and his [her] like are few in number, BUT
                            > They Do So Much Damage to the ECK Missionary Effort. They are like
                            > an ATOMIC BOMB Exploding Over A City.
                            >
                            > You may get reports of a FOX operating in a Satsang Class, as Someone
                            > In Charge of ECK Intro Talks, or in Other Important ECK Activities.
                            > Keep your Eyes and Ears Open. FIND OUT IF Anything is behind the
                            > RUMORS, and INFORM the Local ECK Leadership or the RESA.
                            >
                            > Keep in mind that ECK Chelas are precious Souls. They deserve Love
                            > and Respect. They're serving ECK out of love, not for a pot of gold.
                            > Sweep The Way Clear of a FOX. Allow the ECK Chelas to serve. Let them
                            > unfold, so that their spiritual reward can be greater than any pot of
                            > gold.
                            >
                            > Harold"
                            >
                            > [My caps and bracked additions]
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                          • prometheus_973
                            The purpose here is to give a comparison - to what Klemp says to the mix of Lower & Higher Initiates and then to the Higher Initiates alone. It s always
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jan 6, 2007
                              The purpose here is to give a comparison - to what Klemp says
                              to the mix of Lower & Higher Initiates and then to the Higher
                              Initiates alone. It's always interesting to see just how HK spins
                              the truth, re-indoctrinates, and does his damage control as he
                              expects chelas to get the hints or mindlessly become more the
                              Z-zombies that he expects them to be. [My Caps and bracketed
                              comments below]


                              HK: "Dear Ones,

                              It is necessary for us to become a MIRROR of God's will. Let me
                              explain:

                              A newcomer to the teachings of ECK made a visit to an ECK
                              center to get a feel for the people. Unfortunately, he found no
                              warmth there. No one came to greet him, ask how he was doing,
                              or if he wished someone to address any of his questions. He
                              found the atmosphere in the ECK center to be decidedly chilly.

                              At home he thought, I'll give it another chance. And so he went
                              back to the ECK center, curious as to what he would find.

                              The atmosphere was again cold and uninviting."

                              [ME]: I must say that this is rather typical. Many ECKists think
                              that the PR (intros, etc.) got him to ECK-now it's up to him!
                              Not that many ECKists really want others to join the private
                              club, and why waste your time explaining everything to these
                              newbies when they can get it on the inner! HU-CHAT Cheryl
                              wouldn't waste her time being all warm and friendly to a newbie
                              or oldie!

                              HK: "These are NOT my kind of people, he reasoned. Just as he
                              was about to go out the door, a warm and personable man came
                              over to greet him. So the newcomer posed a number of questions
                              about ECKANKAR. All the answers satisfied him. Yet for all that,
                              a larger question hung in his mind, demanding some resolution.

                              So he said. "Why are the others walking around like mute Zombies?"
                              The answer startled him. "They're practicing the Law of Silence!"

                              [ME]: Now all of us really know that they were NOT knowingly
                              practicing the Law of Silence! The truth is that they were being
                              unfriendly, were caught up in their own thing to bother with a
                              stranger, and most ECKists seem rather shy because they
                              have very poor social skills anyway! I'm rather surprised that
                              Klemp is making excuses for the ineptness of his Arahatas
                              and Vahanas. But I see his ploy. After 24 years of leadership
                              it seems HK just can't admit or take responsibility for what
                              ECKANKAR and his chelas have become on his watch as the
                              LEM/Mahanta-LOSERS!

                              Therefore, Klemp is now offering an excuse or an explanation
                              to give to newcomers when they too experience the coldness
                              of negativity minus any compassion or love. Delusion is a quick
                              fix and HK has mastered this. He is now taking a band-aid
                              approach to the problem for what time he has left! ECKANKAR
                              is a facade anyway so why not create this excuse/solution
                              since it can't be fixed anyway!

                              HK: "The other fellow went on to explain what that meant, giving
                              the newcomer some satisfaction, sufficient enough for him to
                              look into becoming an ECKIST.

                              Many of you already know what the Law of Silence entails. It
                              explains the relationship between the chela and the secret
                              teachings which the Master entrusts to an individual. In
                              general, it means to be silent about the inner mysteries. These
                              include things like one's secret word, unique spiritual excercises
                              to help boost an individual into a higher state of consciousness,
                              and other things."

                              [ME] So, how were these chelas at the ECK center practicing the
                              Law of Silence when the newcomer "found no warmth there?"
                              Shouldn't there have been love in their hearts as they experienced
                              their "higher states of consciousness, and other things?" BTW-
                              there's a disclaimer to follow.

                              HK: "BUT it excludes a dream or Soul Travel experience that
                              would help others better understand some aspect of the ECK
                              teachings. So it is alright to share FITTING STORIES in ECK book
                              discussion or ECK Satsang classes, and even in private con-
                              versations WHEN the talk turns to spiritual matters.

                              And, PLEASE, AVOID using such venues to announce yourself
                              as a SUPERHIGH INITIATE. All It Does Is Reveal You As KAL's
                              DUPE, one with an EXAGGERATED OPINION of his own Spiritual
                              Worth. To do so is to broadcast having failed a test"

                              [ME] Wow! That was nasty of Klemp! So once again we see that
                              Having a 7th or 8th Initiation Doesn't Mean one has Higher
                              Consciousness-just a Higher Opinion of one's self worth.
                              What's the point then?! It's obvious that Eckankar doesn't work
                              and is just another delusional KAL religion. Now for a change
                              in tone and topic.

                              HK: "A SOLID ECK CHELA is always ready and willing to serve
                              God. He understands the meaning of The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
                              when it says, 'The ECKist does not have to ask where his talents
                              can be the most useful. Instead it should be, What is God asking
                              me to do?' Then the ECK will bring to bear all your known and
                              unknown talents to serve God better."

                              [ME]: Isn't this quote just a paraphase of what John F. Kennedy
                              said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you
                              can do for your country." Twitchell stole from everyone! LOL!
                              BTW- I know that there are only the Two Shariyats for the 1st
                              and 2nd Planes, but can't Klemp share some NEW quotes from
                              the 3rd and 4th Plane Shariyats? Why doesn't he? Because they
                              don't exist!

                              Now back to a chastising tone as the former Luthern Seminary
                              Student, once again, revisits the past for a brief "history" lesson.
                              This one seems to compare the Negative situation of the Present
                              Day ECKANKAR Church to the negative aspects of the Early Catholic
                              Church.

                              HK: "Early church history teaches about the dangers to an
                              organization when its members ESTEEM SELF-SERVING BEHAVIOR
                              Above Service to Others. The Catholic Church before the
                              Prostestant Reformation had many areas of corruption. The clergy
                              were too often self-serving. That rankled a great number of
                              Catholics. Yet, overall, the church was serving the spiritual
                              needs of its parishioners.

                              It was its Unaddressed Problems, though, that would lead to
                              serious trouble."

                              [ME]: So Klemp is pointing out how the problems of the Early
                              Catholic Church are like ECKANKAR's even though spiritual
                              needs are being met. Hmmmmmmm. The Pope/Mahanta may
                              have a point there!

                              HK: "For example, many clergymen kept mistresses and raised
                              families, in spite of the church's directive for them to remain
                              celebate. The parishioners made jokes about it. Such a priest
                              was sometimes called a stallion; a mistress, his mare. It was
                              midieval humor with a bite to it."

                              [ME]: So I guess Joan was once HK's "mare." Actually, in "The
                              Path of the Masters" the virture for the passion of LUST is
                              CELEBACY! Twit Westernized it because he knew it wouldn't
                              work in Western culture.

                              HK: "Again, clergy duties might have included sitting in
                              judgment over parishioners caught in the sin of adultery.
                              Such unblushing hypocricy galled the people."

                              [ME]: HK's one to talk isn't he! He lives in a glass house and
                              is always throwing rocks!

                              HK: "For all its virtures, these and many other acts of self-
                              serving behavior among the church's clergy led to a serious
                              rebellion."

                              [ME]: So Klemp is implying that this is what's happening with
                              ECKANKAR, or is there more to the story? I knew that HK would
                              blame others and NOT his own lack of leadership or that the
                              foundation of the Eckankar Church is based upon lies, myth, and
                              distortions just like other religions!

                              HK: "Today we know it as the Protestant Reformation. The Catholic
                              Church never recovered."

                              [ME]: Hey, maybe this site (ESA) is a beginning for the protests
                              leading to the ECKANKAR Reformation!

                              HK: "Self-Serving Behavior always leads to Misunderstandings,
                              at the very least. So the ECK GUIDELINES Are All Important.
                              ECK LEADERS AT ALL LEVELS MUST ENSURE THAT THEY ARE
                              FOLLOWED, BOTH IN SPIRIT AND WORD. The Living ECK Master
                              provides them for this very reason. A CHELA WHO MISUSES
                              ONE OR THE OTHER DISTORTS THE ECK TEACHINGS.

                              In fact, SATSANGS are to help an individual line up his spiritual
                              understanding of ECK so that he increasingly becomes a TRUE
                              MIRROR of God's will. That's the secret path to spiritual freedom."

                              [ME]: So, it seems like HU-CHAT is SATSANG too! However, HK
                              is, in part, telling some truth. SPIRIT (ECK) does help the individual
                              in the TRUE SATSANG of LIFE! This leads to Spiritual Freedom
                              and Self-Mastery without the need for a middleman/mahanta or
                              the need to be in a group religion and follow GUIDELINES and
                              other Dogma, rules, and Laws to keep people silent from telling
                              the Truth. ECKists will continue to do and think as they please,
                              and Klemp can't do anything about that-except withhold fake
                              initiations. LOL!

                              Prometheus









                              ******************************************************************
                              12/2006 H.I. LETTER

                              HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
                              >
                              > There is a FOX outside the HENHOUSE, and it bears watching.
                              > You are a Guardian of the HENHOUSE, helping your RESA
                              > in making sure the ECK chelas in your area receive FAIR
                              > treatment from THOSE WHO ARE ABOVE THEM in Some Service
                              > to ECK.
                              >
                              > These lovers of truth and the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master
                              > deserve fair treatment. MOST ECK LEADERS show them that Courtesy.
                              > However, A FEW DO NOT.
                              >
                              > Much of the ECK work is borne by chelas who do so out of pure
                              > love. There is no remuneration involved. Their spiritual blessings
                              > are great, far greater than receiving a pot of gold filled to the
                              > brim. So They Represent Love.
                              >
                              > The FOX stands for POWER. He is RUTHLESS and sees a house full
                              > of CHICKEN dinners. He feeds on the weak and helpless, on those
                              > who cannot defend themselves.
                              >
                              > Now, what kind of guardian would it be who stood by and let the
                              > FOX, a POWER SEEKER, satisfy his pleasure?
                              >
                              > SOMEONE WHO KNOWS what is going on, is in a POSITION to do
                              > something about it, BUT PURPOSELY SHUTS HIS EYES to the PROBLEM
                              > --out of FEAR, perhaps, of OFFENDING the PERPETRATOR--IS AN
                              > ACCOMPLICE of the FOX. How could he not be?
                              >
                              > I was thinking about the constant struggle that exists between LOVE
                              > and POWER, EVEN AMONG ECKists. You look at such people with their
                              > GOOSE-STEPPING TACTICS and you wonder about them. Sometimes
                              > they almost seem to be SCHIZOPHRENIC, with OPPOSING or ANTAGONISTIC
                              > sides.
                              >
                              > On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful. BUT on the other,
                              > they are TROMPING on the rights of others with BIG, MUDDY BOOTS.
                              > YET THEY CAN'T SEE THEMSELVES.
                              >
                              > Don't we all find it easier to spot a BLEMISH in another instead of
                              > ourselves? Behind the BIG BOOTS is the EGO. It is OUT OF CONTROL
                              > and can thus do a GREAT DEAL OF HARM. These GOOSE-STEPPING
                              > people LOVE POWER, NOT LOVE. It is DISHEARTENING to see them.
                              > They INTRUDE into the domain of others. Deep within a FILE CABINET
                              > they come across a VAGUE RULE that, if taken out of context, says the
                              > others are not in compliance with it.
                              >
                              > This steps on people LOWER in the PECKING ORDER, who must
                              > keep silent.
                              >
                              > Long ago, as a Vahana in the field, I happened into a neighboring
                              > Mahdis's area to give an introductory lecture. This was in the old
                              > days, when the rules were not always drafted very well. That Mahdis
                              > complained to the ECK Office. So I found that the better part of valor
                              > was discretion, and thus wisely kept out of the area. What struct me
                              > was that the area wasn't growing! This Mahdis used up so much energy
                              > protecting her turf that she had neither the time nor energy to do an
                              > adequate job of ECK Vahana work in her very populous area. It was sad.
                              >
                              > She would not do it and acted like a bucket of cold water when
                              > others did show initiative. One such person can do so much damage
                              > to an organization, especially to one like ECKANKAR, because it places
                              > a lot of faith in volunteers and their love for the Master.
                              >
                              > These FOXES--POWER EATERS--are EXTREMELY STUBBORN in their
                              > determination to DOMINATE others. IF THEY COULD ONLY SEE THEMSELVES.
                              > Their motto: 'MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.'
                              >
                              > Other approaches they favor include becoming overly familiar
                              > with an intended VICTIM. Then they take control of the other's life.
                              > The GOOSE-STEPPER, the FOX, is thus GUILTY of VIOLATING the ECK
                              > PRECEPT of Allowing Others To Have Their Freedom.
                              >
                              > Such a person thinks that his EGO is under control as much as that
                              > of another.
                              >
                              > He [She] LICKS the BOOTS of THOSE ABOVE him [her] in the HIERARCHY
                              > and expects those BELOW him to LICK his [hers]. He [She] is truly
                              > SCHIZOPHRENIC. He [She] and his [her] like are few in number, BUT
                              > They Do So Much Damage to the ECK Missionary Effort. They are like
                              > an ATOMIC BOMB Exploding Over A City.
                              >
                              > You may get reports of a FOX operating in a Satsang Class, as Someone
                              > In Charge of ECK Intro Talks, or in Other Important ECK Activities.
                              > Keep your Eyes and Ears Open. FIND OUT IF Anything is behind the
                              > RUMORS, and INFORM the Local ECK Leadership or the RESA.
                              >
                              > Keep in mind that ECK Chelas are precious Souls. They deserve Love
                              > and Respect. They're serving ECK out of love, not for a pot of gold.
                              > Sweep The Way Clear of a FOX. Allow the ECK Chelas to serve. Let them
                              > unfold, so that their spiritual reward can be greater than any pot of
                              > gold.
                              >
                              > Harold"
                              >
                              > [My caps and bracked additions]
                              >
                              > Prometheus
                              >
                            • prometheus_973
                              Hi All, I just had a few more comments to make of Klemp s Two-Faced remarks. ... ### Doesn t it make you wonder how an ECK Center with those pictures of the
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jan 8, 2007
                                Hi All,
                                I just had a few more comments to make of Klemp's Two-Faced
                                remarks.

                                > Prometheus wrote:
                                > >
                                > > The purpose here is to give a comparison - to what Klemp says
                                > > to the mix of Lower & Higher Initiates and then to the Higher
                                > > Initiates alone. It's always interesting to see just how HK spins
                                > > the truth, re-indoctrinates, and does his damage control as he
                                > > expects chelas to get the hints or mindlessly become more the
                                > > Z-zombies that he expects them to be. [My Caps and bracketed
                                > > comments below]


                                > > HK: "Dear Ones,
                                > >
                                > > It is necessary for us to become a MIRROR of God's will. Let me
                                > > explain:
                                > >
                                > > A newcomer to the teachings of ECK made a visit to an ECK
                                > > center to get a feel for the people. Unfortunately, he found no
                                > > warmth there. No one came to greet him, ask how he was doing,
                                > > or if he wished someone to address any of his questions. He
                                > > found the atmosphere in the ECK center to be decidedly chilly.
                                > >
                                > > At home he thought, I'll give it another chance. And so he went
                                > > back to the ECK center, curious as to what he would find.
                                > >
                                > > The atmosphere was again cold and uninviting."

                                ### Doesn't it make you wonder how an ECK Center with those
                                pictures of the ECK Masters on the walls (including HK's) and all
                                of the HUing that goes on there and Satsang Classes and the EWS
                                and Initiations being given there and Roundtables, etc. that the
                                Atmosphere was "Cold and Uninviting." How can that be if ECKANKAR
                                is Not a Scam, or of the KAL? It doesn't make sense, otherwise,
                                does it!


                                > > [ME]: I must say that this is rather typical. Many ECKists think
                                > > that the PR (intros, etc.) got him to ECK-now it's up to him!
                                > > Not that many ECKists really want others to join the private
                                > > club, and why waste your time explaining everything to these
                                > > newbies when they can get it on the inner! HU-CHAT Cheryl
                                > > wouldn't waste her time being all warm and friendly to a newbie
                                > > or oldie!

                                > > HK: "These are NOT my kind of people, he reasoned. Just as he
                                > > was about to go out the door, a warm and personable man came
                                > > over to greet him. So the newcomer posed a number of questions
                                > > about ECKANKAR. All the answers satisfied him. Yet for all that,
                                > > a larger question hung in his mind, demanding some resolution.
                                > >
                                > > So he said. "Why are the others walking around like mute Zombies?"
                                > > The answer startled him. "They're practicing the Law of Silence!"

                                ### That was fast thinking by this ECKist! Was it a tongue-in-cheek
                                response that was really sarcastic? Maybe, but Klemp ran with it
                                anyway!

                                > > [ME]: Now all of us really know that they were NOT knowingly
                                > > practicing the Law of Silence! The truth is that they were being
                                > > unfriendly, were caught up in their own thing to bother with a
                                > > stranger, and most ECKists seem rather shy because they
                                > > have very poor social skills anyway! I'm rather surprised that
                                > > Klemp is making excuses for the ineptness of his Arahatas
                                > > and Vahanas. But I see his ploy. After 24 years of leadership
                                > > it seems HK just can't admit or take responsibility for what
                                > > ECKANKAR and his chelas have become on his watch as the
                                > > LEM/Mahanta-LOSERS!
                                > >
                                > > Therefore, Klemp is now offering an excuse or an explanation
                                > > to give to newcomers when they too experience the coldness
                                > > of negativity minus any compassion or love. Delusion is a quick
                                > > fix and HK has mastered this. He is now taking a band-aid
                                > > approach to the problem for what time he has left! ECKANKAR
                                > > is a facade anyway so why not create this excuse/solution
                                > > since it can't be fixed anyway!

                                > > HK: "The other fellow went on to explain what that meant, giving
                                > > the newcomer some satisfaction, sufficient enough for him to
                                > > look into becoming an ECKIST.

                                ### As long as you can give the seeker some satisfaction with
                                a little well placed B.S. then it's all good - for ECKANKAR!

                                > > Many of you already know what the Law of Silence entails. It
                                > > explains the relationship between the chela and the secret
                                > > teachings which the Master entrusts to an individual. In
                                > > general, it means to be silent about the inner mysteries. These
                                > > include things like one's secret word, unique spiritual excercises
                                > > to help boost an individual into a higher state of consciousness,
                                > > and other things."

                                > > [ME] So, how were these chelas at the ECK center practicing the
                                > > Law of Silence when the newcomer "found no warmth there?"
                                > > Shouldn't there have been love in their hearts as they experienced
                                > > their "higher states of consciousness, and other things?" BTW-
                                > > there's a disclaimer to follow.

                                > > HK: "BUT it excludes a dream or Soul Travel experience that
                                > > would help others better understand some aspect of the ECK
                                > > teachings. So it is alright to share FITTING STORIES in ECK book
                                > > discussion or ECK Satsang classes, and even in private con-
                                > > versations WHEN the talk turns to spiritual matters."

                                ### Yep! The distorted, embellished, and disjointed dream
                                experiences or OBEs (Soul Travel) experiences are the best for
                                stories about ECK Masters and such. Still, these "inner" experiences
                                are supposed to be personal and for you only right! So, why share it?
                                That's like casting your pearls before swine! Oh, I see, for
                                ECKANKAR it's a membership thing and for the chela it's a pride
                                thing!

                                > HK: "And, PLEASE, AVOID using such venues to announce yourself
                                > as a SUPERHIGH INITIATE. All It Does Is Reveal You As KAL's
                                > DUPE, one with an EXAGGERATED OPINION of his own Spiritual
                                > Worth. To do so is to broadcast having failed a test"

                                ### Does this happen often with HK's 7ths and 8ths? It must!
                                I can see why he doesn't want to demote people, but Why Not!
                                It might start giving more validation to the Initiations (in ECKists
                                minds) if Klemp did more demoting!

                                > > [ME] Wow! That was nasty of Klemp! So once again we see that
                                > > Having a 7th or 8th Initiation Doesn't Mean one has Higher
                                > > Consciousness-just a Higher Opinion of one's self worth.
                                > > What's the point then?! It's obvious that Eckankar doesn't work
                                > > and is just another delusional KAL religion. Now for a change
                                > > in tone and topic.

                                > > HK: "A SOLID ECK CHELA is always ready and willing to serve
                                > > God. He understands the meaning of The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
                                > > when it says, 'The ECKist does not have to ask where his talents
                                > > can be the most useful. Instead it should be, What is God asking
                                > > me to do?' Then the ECK will bring to bear all your known and
                                > > unknown talents to serve God better."

                                ### I was just wondering about the classifications of ECK Chelas.
                                There are the "True" ones, the "Solid" ones, the "Losers," the "Foxes,"
                                the "Hens," the "Eagles," the "Monkeys" and many others. Maybe
                                Klemp can sort them all out and define them in his next rewrite
                                of the ECKANKAR LexiCon.

                                > > [ME]: Isn't this quote just a paraphase of what John F. Kennedy
                                > > said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you
                                > > can do for your country." Twitchell stole from everyone! LOL!
                                > > BTW- I know that there are only the Two Shariyats for the 1st
                                > > and 2nd Planes, but can't Klemp share some NEW quotes from
                                > > the 3rd and 4th Plane Shariyats? Why doesn't he? Because they
                                > > don't exist!
                                > >
                                > > Now back to a chastising tone as the former Luthern Seminary
                                > > Student, once again, revisits the past for a brief "history" lesson.
                                > > This one seems to compare the Negative situation of the Present
                                > > Day ECKANKAR Church to the negative aspects of the Early Catholic
                                > > Church.

                                > > HK: "Early church history teaches about the dangers to an
                                > > organization when its members ESTEEM SELF-SERVING BEHAVIOR
                                > > Above Service to Others. The Catholic Church before the
                                > > Prostestant Reformation had many areas of corruption. The clergy
                                > > were too often self-serving. That rankled a great number of
                                > > Catholics. Yet, overall, the church was serving the spiritual
                                > > needs of its parishioners.
                                > >
                                > > It was its Unaddressed Problems, though, that would lead to
                                > > serious trouble."

                                ### Is it the "unaddressed problems" of Klemp's that is causing
                                trouble for ECKANKAR and HK Not Taking Ownership For This,
                                or the conflicting information created by Twitchell for his scam?

                                > > [ME]: So Klemp is pointing out how the problems of the Early
                                > > Catholic Church are like ECKANKAR's even though spiritual
                                > > needs are being met. Hmmmmmmm. The Pope/Mahanta may
                                > > have a point there!

                                > > HK: "For example, many clergymen kept mistresses and raised
                                > > families, in spite of the church's directive for them to remain
                                > > celebate. The parishioners made jokes about it. Such a priest
                                > > was sometimes called a stallion; a mistress, his mare. It was
                                > > midieval humor with a bite to it."

                                > > [ME]: So I guess Joan was once HK's "mare." Actually, in "The
                                > > Path of the Masters" the virture for the passion of LUST is
                                > > CELEBACY! Twit Westernized it because he knew it wouldn't
                                > > work in Western culture.

                                > > HK: "Again, clergy duties might have included sitting in
                                > > judgment over parishioners caught in the sin of adultery.
                                > > Such unblushing hypocricy galled the people."

                                ### RESAs do this when the Initiation List comes to them.
                                Judgments are made as to whether ECKists get a pink slip or
                                Not! And, how many ECK Leaders are hypocrites in regard to
                                their own behaviours!

                                > > [ME]: HK's one to talk isn't he! He lives in a glass house and
                                > > is always throwing stones!

                                > > HK: "For all its virtures, these and many other acts of self-
                                > > serving behavior among the church's clergy led to a serious
                                > > rebellion."

                                ### So, why doesn't Klemp just come out and say that there
                                is a lot of self-serving behaviour in ECKANKAR with its priests!
                                Or, is Klemp saying that this is to be expected within any religion?
                                BUT, ECKANKAR isn't supposed to be like the Catholic or the
                                Protestant Churches - it's supposed to be Planes Higher! Why
                                then the comparison, unless, they're the same?

                                > > [ME]: So Klemp is implying that this is what's happening with
                                > > ECKANKAR, or is there more to the story? I knew that HK would
                                > > blame others and NOT his own lack of leadership or that the
                                > > foundation of the Eckankar Church is based upon lies, myth, and
                                > > distortions just like other religions!

                                > > HK: "Today we know it as the Protestant Reformation. The Catholic
                                > > Church never recovered."

                                ### Yes, Islam has taken its place as a political force!

                                > > [ME]: Hey, maybe this site (ESA) is a beginning for the protests
                                > > leading to the ECKANKAR Reformation!

                                > > HK: "Self-Serving Behavior always leads to Misunderstandings,
                                > > at the very least. So the ECK GUIDELINES Are All Important.
                                > > ECK LEADERS AT ALL LEVELS MUST ENSURE THAT THEY ARE
                                > > FOLLOWED, BOTH IN SPIRIT AND WORD. The Living ECK Master
                                > > provides them for this very reason. A CHELA WHO MISUSES
                                > > ONE OR THE OTHER DISTORTS THE ECK TEACHINGS.

                                > > In fact, SATSANGS are to help an individual line up his spiritual
                                > > understanding of ECK so that he increasingly becomes a TRUE
                                > > MIRROR of God's will. That's the secret path to spiritual freedom."

                                ### I knew that those pesky GUIDELINES would resurface! My
                                question is, Who's Going To Enforce The Following of the Guidelines?
                                How Many ECK Leaders (and RESAs) Even Know What All Of The
                                Guidelines Are In Order For Them To Be "Followed" in "Spirit"
                                and "Word?" Talk is Cheap!

                                > > [ME]: So, it seems like HU-CHAT is SATSANG too! However, HK
                                > > is, in part, telling some truth. SPIRIT (ECK) does help the individual
                                > > in the TRUE SATSANG of LIFE! This leads to Spiritual Freedom
                                > > and Self-Mastery without the need for a middleman/mahanta or
                                > > the need to be in a group religion and follow GUIDELINES and
                                > > other Dogma, rules, and Laws to keep people silent from telling
                                > > the Truth. ECKists will continue to do and think as they please,
                                > > and Klemp can't do anything about that-except withhold fake
                                > > initiations. LOL!
                                > >
                                > > Prometheus

                                ******************************************************************
                                > > 12/2006 H.I. LETTER
                                > >
                                > > HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
                                > > >
                                > > > There is a FOX outside the HENHOUSE, and it bears watching.
                                > > > You are a Guardian of the HENHOUSE, helping your RESA
                                > > > in making sure the ECK chelas in your area receive FAIR
                                > > > treatment from THOSE WHO ARE ABOVE THEM in Some Service
                                > > > to ECK.
                                > > >
                                > > > These lovers of truth and the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master
                                > > > deserve fair treatment. MOST ECK LEADERS show them that Courtesy.
                                > > > However, A FEW DO NOT.
                                > > >
                                > > > Much of the ECK work is borne by chelas who do so out of pure
                                > > > love. There is no remuneration involved. Their spiritual blessings
                                > > > are great, far greater than receiving a pot of gold filled to the
                                > > > brim. So They Represent Love.
                                > > >
                                > > > The FOX stands for POWER. He is RUTHLESS and sees a house full
                                > > > of CHICKEN dinners. He feeds on the weak and helpless, on those
                                > > > who cannot defend themselves.
                                > > >
                                > > > Now, what kind of guardian would it be who stood by and let the
                                > > > FOX, a POWER SEEKER, satisfy his pleasure?
                                > > >
                                > > > SOMEONE WHO KNOWS what is going on, is in a POSITION to do
                                > > > something about it, BUT PURPOSELY SHUTS HIS EYES to the PROBLEM
                                > > > --out of FEAR, perhaps, of OFFENDING the PERPETRATOR--IS AN
                                > > > ACCOMPLICE of the FOX. How could he not be?
                                > > >
                                > > > I was thinking about the constant struggle that exists between LOVE
                                > > > and POWER, EVEN AMONG ECKists. You look at such people with their
                                > > > GOOSE-STEPPING TACTICS and you wonder about them. Sometimes
                                > > > they almost seem to be SCHIZOPHRENIC, with OPPOSING or ANTAGONISTIC
                                > > > sides.
                                > > >
                                > > > On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful. BUT on the other,
                                > > > they are TROMPING on the rights of others with BIG, MUDDY BOOTS.
                                > > > YET THEY CAN'T SEE THEMSELVES.
                                > > >
                                > > > Don't we all find it easier to spot a BLEMISH in another instead of
                                > > > ourselves? Behind the BIG BOOTS is the EGO. It is OUT OF CONTROL
                                > > > and can thus do a GREAT DEAL OF HARM. These GOOSE-STEPPING
                                > > > people LOVE POWER, NOT LOVE. It is DISHEARTENING to see them.
                                > > > They INTRUDE into the domain of others. Deep within a FILE CABINET
                                > > > they come across a VAGUE RULE that, if taken out of context, says the
                                > > > others are not in compliance with it.
                                > > >
                                > > > This steps on people LOWER in the PECKING ORDER, who must
                                > > > keep silent.
                                > > >
                                > > > Long ago, as a Vahana in the field, I happened into a neighboring
                                > > > Mahdis's area to give an introductory lecture. This was in the old
                                > > > days, when the rules were not always drafted very well. That Mahdis
                                > > > complained to the ECK Office. So I found that the better part of valor
                                > > > was discretion, and thus wisely kept out of the area. What struct me
                                > > > was that the area wasn't growing! This Mahdis used up so much energy
                                > > > protecting her turf that she had neither the time nor energy to do an
                                > > > adequate job of ECK Vahana work in her very populous area. It was sad.
                                > > >
                                > > > She would not do it and acted like a bucket of cold water when
                                > > > others did show initiative. One such person can do so much damage
                                > > > to an organization, especially to one like ECKANKAR, because it places
                                > > > a lot of faith in volunteers and their love for the Master.
                                > > >
                                > > > These FOXES--POWER EATERS--are EXTREMELY STUBBORN in their
                                > > > determination to DOMINATE others. IF THEY COULD ONLY SEE THEMSELVES.
                                > > > Their motto: 'MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.'
                                > > >
                                > > > Other approaches they favor include becoming overly familiar
                                > > > with an intended VICTIM. Then they take control of the other's life.
                                > > > The GOOSE-STEPPER, the FOX, is thus GUILTY of VIOLATING the ECK
                                > > > PRECEPT of Allowing Others To Have Their Freedom.
                                > > >
                                > > > Such a person thinks that his EGO is under control as much as that
                                > > > of another.
                                > > >
                                > > > He [She] LICKS the BOOTS of THOSE ABOVE him [her] in the HIERARCHY
                                > > > and expects those BELOW him to LICK his [hers]. He [She] is truly
                                > > > SCHIZOPHRENIC. He [She] and his [her] like are few in number, BUT
                                > > > They Do So Much Damage to the ECK Missionary Effort. They are like
                                > > > an ATOMIC BOMB Exploding Over A City.
                                > > >
                                > > > You may get reports of a FOX operating in a Satsang Class, as Someone
                                > > > In Charge of ECK Intro Talks, or in Other Important ECK Activities.
                                > > > Keep your Eyes and Ears Open. FIND OUT IF Anything is behind the
                                > > > RUMORS, and INFORM the Local ECK Leadership or the RESA.
                                > > >
                                > > > Keep in mind that ECK Chelas are precious Souls. They deserve Love
                                > > > and Respect. They're serving ECK out of love, not for a pot of gold.
                                > > > Sweep The Way Clear of a FOX. Allow the ECK Chelas to serve. Let them
                                > > > unfold, so that their spiritual reward can be greater than any pot of
                                > > > gold.
                                > > >
                                > > > Harold"
                                > > >
                                > > > [My caps and bracked additions]
                                > > >
                                > > > Prometheus
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • etznab@aol.com
                                In a message dated 1/8/07 1:18:54 PM Central Standard Time, prometheus_973@yahoo.com writes: ... Prometheus, Do you suppose all of the unaddressed
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jan 8, 2007
                                  In a message dated 1/8/07 1:18:54 PM Central Standard Time, prometheus_973@... writes:

                                  <snip>

                                  > HK: "Early church history teaches about the dangers to an
                                  > organization when its members ESTEEM SELF-SERVING BEHAVIOR
                                  > Above Service to Others. The Catholic Church before the
                                  > Prostestant Reformation had many areas of corruption. The clergy
                                  > were too often self-serving. That rankled a great number of
                                  > Catholics. Yet, overall, the church was serving the spiritual
                                  > needs of its parishioners.
                                  >
                                  > It was its Unaddressed Problems, though, that would lead to
                                  > serious trouble."

                                  ### Is it the "unaddressed problems" of Klemp's that is causing
                                  trouble for ECKANKAR and HK Not Taking Ownership For This,
                                  or the conflicting information created by Twitchell for his scam?


                                  Prometheus,

                                     Do you suppose all of the unaddressed problems could be
                                  addressed? I know the possibility sounds encouraging, even
                                  to me, but I don't imagine that every single problem could or
                                  even should be publicly addressed.

                                     Here is the reason why: Once a person looks at an object
                                  and defines it according to their own personal observation, it
                                  (in a sense) becomes their "own" experience. For example,
                                  words, speech and written texts must yield to an individual
                                  interpretation for meaning. So who or what is ultimately going
                                  to address all of the world's problems? Be they of the nature
                                  of Church, of State, Individual, or Corporation?

                                     IMO we can all look at the same text, the same words,
                                  the same speech. However, what is really the same in this
                                  context? Are we really all having the same experiences of
                                  every single thing? How can an object (be it a word, a book
                                  or a person) transfer the inner meanings and/or aspects as
                                  understood by the author? Are these objects not symbols
                                  at best? Symbols and shapes that we might all be able to
                                  see and/or duplicate to some extent, but the meanings of
                                  which become individual experiences that can differ from
                                  one individual to the next?

                                     In other words, if objects are symbolic representations
                                  at best and not every single observer will automatically
                                  have the same understanding or experience of them, how
                                  can this be addressed? In other words, what could even
                                  address every single person and their own experiences
                                  unless it were "something" shared in common by all?
                                  Some type of medium which can unite outer and inner
                                  for all? What is that medium? The Internet? Perhaps it
                                  IS the "Internet" - but one that includes both inner and
                                  outer experiences together? Do you know of another
                                  type of medium?

                                     A week or two ago I got a phone call from a woman who
                                  asked me if I believed there was a form of government that
                                  could solve all of the worlds problems. I basically said that
                                  yes I do, and I believed this form of government was/is not
                                  something that exists "outside" of every single individual.

                                     Later I asked if the person were a Jehovah's Witness (as
                                  I suspected), and they said that they were. I did not mention
                                  the name (nor was I asked for the name) of my religion, but
                                  we had a pleasant conversation that seemed to take place
                                  on common ground. I thanked them, and they thanked me
                                  for the sharing of our conversation. I couldn't say wether we
                                  even had any problems in our conversation. At least, both
                                  of us agreed about much of what got shared. However, in
                                  a way, I imagine that we did not succeed at solving all of the
                                  world's problems. But by the same token, we probably did
                                  not add very much to them either. At least, for ourselves.

                                     I thought that you brought up some good points, and I
                                  can respond to what you said according to my opinion.
                                  At the same time I am not expecting that every other
                                  person will agree with it. Because if they don't agree and
                                  I try to force my opinion on them, I will probably end up
                                  like every other person who tried (but failed) to conquer
                                  and/or rule the world.

                                  Etznab


                                • Non ekster
                                  This is a long post that fits into the category of fooling yourself. I feel I must be blunt. Meandering verbage really is the same as saying nothing and is an
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jan 8, 2007
                                    This is a long post that fits into the category of fooling yourself. I
                                    feel I must be blunt. Meandering verbage really is the same as saying
                                    nothing and is an attempt to ignore the fact that eckankar is a SCAM.
                                    I am waiting for your point on yur time line when yu wake up and
                                    realize this fact. ; )

                                    Nonekster

                                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > In a message dated 1/8/07 1:18:54 PM Central Standard Time,
                                    > prometheus_973@... writes:
                                    >
                                    > <snip>
                                    >
                                    > > > HK: "Early church history teaches about the dangers to an
                                    > > > organization when its members ESTEEM SELF-SERVING BEHAVIOR
                                    > > > Above Service to Others. The Catholic Church before the
                                    > > > Prostestant Reformation had many areas of corruption. The clergy
                                    > > > were too often self-serving. That rankled a great number of
                                    > > > Catholics. Yet, overall, the church was serving the spiritual
                                    > > > needs of its parishioners.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > It was its Unaddressed Problems, though, that would lead to
                                    > > > serious trouble."
                                    > >
                                    > > ### Is it the "unaddressed problems" of Klemp's that is causing
                                    > > trouble for ECKANKAR and HK Not Taking Ownership For This,
                                    > > or the conflicting information created by Twitchell for his scam?
                                    >
                                    > Prometheus,
                                    >
                                    > Do you suppose all of the unaddressed problems could be
                                    > addressed? I know the possibility sounds encouraging, even
                                    > to me, but I don't imagine that every single problem could or
                                    > even should be publicly addressed.
                                    >
                                    > Here is the reason why: Once a person looks at an object
                                    > and defines it according to their own personal observation, it
                                    > (in a sense) becomes their "own" experience. For example,
                                    > words, speech and written texts must yield to an individual
                                    > interpretation for meaning. So who or what is ultimately going
                                    > to address all of the world's problems? Be they of the nature
                                    > of Church, of State, Individual, or Corporation?
                                    >
                                    > IMO we can all look at the same text, the same words,
                                    > the same speech. However, what is really the same in this
                                    > context? Are we really all having the same experiences of
                                    > every single thing? How can an object (be it a word, a book
                                    > or a person) transfer the inner meanings and/or aspects as
                                    > understood by the author? Are these objects not symbols
                                    > at best? Symbols and shapes that we might all be able to
                                    > see and/or duplicate to some extent, but the meanings of
                                    > which become individual experiences that can differ from
                                    > one individual to the next?
                                    >
                                    > In other words, if objects are symbolic representations
                                    > at best and not every single observer will automatically
                                    > have the same understanding or experience of them, how
                                    > can this be addressed? In other words, what could even
                                    > address every single person and their own experiences
                                    > unless it were "something" shared in common by all?
                                    > Some type of medium which can unite outer and inner
                                    > for all? What is that medium? The Internet? Perhaps it
                                    > IS the "Internet" - but one that includes both inner and
                                    > outer experiences together? Do you know of another
                                    > type of medium?
                                    >
                                    > A week or two ago I got a phone call from a woman who
                                    > asked me if I believed there was a form of government that
                                    > could solve all of the worlds problems. I basically said that
                                    > yes I do, and I believed this form of government was/is not
                                    > something that exists "outside" of every single individual.
                                    >
                                    > Later I asked if the person were a Jehovah's Witness (as
                                    > I suspected), and they said that they were. I did not mention
                                    > the name (nor was I asked for the name) of my religion, but
                                    > we had a pleasant conversation that seemed to take place
                                    > on common ground. I thanked them, and they thanked me
                                    > for the sharing of our conversation. I couldn't say wether we
                                    > even had any problems in our conversation. At least, both
                                    > of us agreed about much of what got shared. However, in
                                    > a way, I imagine that we did not succeed at solving all of the
                                    > world's problems. But by the same token, we probably did
                                    > not add very much to them either. At least, for ourselves.
                                    >
                                    > I thought that you brought up some good points, and I
                                    > can respond to what you said according to my opinion.
                                    > At the same time I am not expecting that every other
                                    > person will agree with it. Because if they don't agree and
                                    > I try to force my opinion on them, I will probably end up
                                    > like every other person who tried (but failed) to conquer
                                    > and/or rule the world.
                                    >
                                    > Etznab
                                    >
                                  • ctecvie
                                    ... *** Me, too, I must say! :) I think you are a decent guy, Etznab, but I have difficulties to understand why you are still clinging so much to eckankar -
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jan 8, 2007
                                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster"
                                      <eckchains@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > This is a long post that fits into the category of fooling yourself. I
                                      > feel I must be blunt. Meandering verbage really is the same as saying
                                      > nothing and is an attempt to ignore the fact that eckankar is a SCAM.
                                      > I am waiting for your point on yur time line when yu wake up and
                                      > realize this fact. ; )

                                      *** Me, too, I must say! :) I think you are a decent guy, Etznab, but I
                                      have difficulties to understand why you are still clinging so much to
                                      eckankar - with all the research you have done about it, you know that
                                      it is a scam. You don't need any construct (be it eckankar, HCS or
                                      whatever) to lead a spiritual life. And I think you must know that,
                                      too.
                                      Ingrid
                                    • prometheus_973
                                      Hi All, I thought I d bring this back up for all those ECK Lower Initiates to see what they re missing. According to Klemp they can t handle the higher
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Feb 22, 2007
                                        Hi All,
                                        I thought I'd bring this back up for all those ECK Lower Initiates to
                                        see what they're missing. According to Klemp they can't handle the
                                        higher vibrations coming from the H.I. Letter or from those H.I.
                                        Only books, etc. However, didn't Klemp recently say that everything
                                        spoken or written was only of the 4th Mental Plane?

                                        HK: "Written words derive from a place no higher than the Mental Plane,
                                        because that is the source of the alphabet, symbols, and thought. The
                                        Essence of God, the ECK, has at that point just made Its incursion into
                                        the realm of negativity from the indescrible worlds of God above."
                                        [The Mystic World, 12/2006, Ask the Master #1]

                                        So, why aren't Lower Initiate Chelas allowed to read about 'H.I. foxes,'
                                        and, also, to read that Klemp sees them as 'hens' instead of eaglets!

                                        Klemp is now asking H.I.s to squeal on each other and follow the
                                        rumors to ferret out the Kal-Eck 'foxes' raiding the lower initiate
                                        'henhouse.'

                                        It seems that HK is just giving more lip service to what's wrong with
                                        the org. How can H.I.s believe anything HK says when in the 12/2005 H.I.
                                        Letter (one year ago) he talked of Not Using IFs, ANDs, and BUTs when
                                        talking to one another, but it was okay to use these words with the public.
                                        It seems Kant had this IF, AND, BUT opinion of the intent behind the word
                                        usage and HK thought Kant had made a good point and, therefore,
                                        instructed his H.I.s to communicate better by saying what they mean rather
                                        than negating or putting limits on what they have said with a BUT, or not
                                        being direct by using IF. Now just read anything that Klemp has written in
                                        the past year (including this 12/2006 H.I. Letter) and count the IFs and
                                        especially the BUTs! BTW-AND is okay because it's a connector - LOL!

                                        Therefore, is it any wonder that H.I.s are confused. When Klemp calls
                                        some Eckists 'losers' or is making those negative, unloving, and rude
                                        comments about that 'fill-in' Third Temporary Postal Clerk back in the
                                        09/2003 H.I. Letter he is laying a foundation of negativity, unfriendliness,
                                        and exclusion toward others. Klemp is a narcissist. Just read the article
                                        on NPD and you will not only see him, but other hi-profile and vain ECKists
                                        as well.

                                        ***************************************************************************

                                        HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,

                                        There is a fox outside the henhouse, and it bears watching.

                                        You are a guardian of the henhouse, helping your RESA in making sure the ECK
                                        chelas in your area receive fair treatment from those who are above them in
                                        some service to ECK."
                                        >
                                        [ME]: The RESAs are part of the problem. They turn a blind eye to the Kal
                                        like behaviors of those in their hierarchy. Many RESAs are simply inexperienced
                                        administrators without a clue as to who should be trusted and who shouldn't.
                                        >
                                        HK: "These lovers of truth and the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master deserve fair
                                        treatment. Most ECK leaders show them that courtesy. However, a few do not.

                                        Much of the ECK work is borne by chelas who do so out of pure love. There is
                                        no remuneration involved. Their spiritual blessings are great, far greater
                                        than receiving a pot of gold filled to the brim. So they represent love."
                                        >
                                        [ME]: The pride of the Higher initiations and the power of having a high 'settler'
                                        position and having one's Eckie story mentioned or put into print is also
                                        part of the "remuneration" for many Eckists.
                                        >
                                        HK: "The fox stands for power. He is ruthless and sees a house full of chicken
                                        dinners. He feeds on the weak and helpless, on those who cannot defend
                                        themselves.

                                        Now, what kind of guardian would it be who stood by and let the fox, a power
                                        seeker, satisfy his pleasure?

                                        Someone who knows what is going on, is in a position to do something about
                                        it, BUT purposely shuts his eyes to the problem--out of fear, perhaps, of
                                        offending the perpetrator--is an accomplice of the fox. How could he not be?"
                                        >
                                        [ME]: The power seeker is a common occurance in Eckankar/religion. Can't the
                                        owner of HU-Chat take Cher's moderator position away from her and boot her?
                                        Or, is she afraid to do so. How about Cher's RESA? Why hasn't something been
                                        done? The LEM/Mahanta wants to know why not!
                                        >
                                        HK: "I was thinking about the constant struggle that exists between love and
                                        power, even among ECKists. You look at such people with their goose-
                                        stepping tactics and you wonder about them. Sometimes they almost seem to
                                        be schizophrenic, with opposing or antagonistic sides.

                                        On one hand, they are ever so loving and helpful. BUT on the other, they are
                                        tromping on the rights of others with big, muddy boots. Yet they can't see
                                        themselves."
                                        >
                                        [ME]: Actually, this is not all that uncommon within the ranks of the Kal-Eck
                                        Higher Initiates. There are many that are well established within 6th and 7th
                                        circles of initiation. And, we can also include 8ths, 9ths, and a 14th!
                                        >
                                        HK: "Don't we all find it easier to spot a blemish in another instead of
                                        ourselves? Behind the big boots is the ego. It is out of control and can thus
                                        do a great deal of harm. These goose-stepping people love power, not love.
                                        It is disheartening to see them. They intrude into the domain of others. Deep
                                        within a file cabinet they come across a vague rule that, if taken out of
                                        context, says the others are not in compliance with it."
                                        >
                                        [ME]: I remember that Third 'fill-in' Postal Clerk whose blemishes HK pointed
                                        out. Klemp got his big muddy boots out to tromp on him didn't he! See, this
                                        is why Eckankar doesn't work! It's flawed from the top down and always has
                                        been!
                                        >
                                        HK: "This steps on people lower in the pecking order, who must keep silent."
                                        >
                                        [ME]: Yes, people must keep silent if they want that next initiation or that
                                        coveted position in the RESA hierarchy... maybe it's a RESA position! See,
                                        Klemp knows how the "pecking order" game is played... he once did it too!
                                        >
                                        HK: "Long ago, as a Vahana in the field, I happened into a neighboring
                                        Mahdis's area to give an introductory lecture. This was in the old days, when
                                        the rules were not always drafted very well. That Mahdis complained to the
                                        ECK Office. So I found that the better part of valor was discretion, and thus
                                        wisely kept out of the area. What struct me was that the area wasn't growing!
                                        This Mahdisused up so much energy protecting her turf that she had neither
                                        the time nor energy to do an adequate job of ECK Vahana work in her very
                                        populous area. It was sad."
                                        >
                                        [ME]: Maybe the Mahdis saw Klemp as a "fox."
                                        >
                                        HK: "She would not do it and acted like a bucket of cold water when others
                                        did show initiative. One such person can do so much damage to an
                                        organization, especially to one like ECKANKAR, because it places a lot of faith
                                        in volunteers and their love for the Master.

                                        These foxes--power eaters--are extremely stubborn in their determination
                                        to dominate others. IF they could only see themselves. Their motto:
                                        'My way or the highway.'
                                        >
                                        [ME]: Isn't that how Klemp dealt with Ford and Graham. It was HK's way or the
                                        highway! This is very two-faced of Harold. HK is stubborn too!
                                        >
                                        HK: "Other approaches they favor include becoming overly familiar with an
                                        intended victim. Then they take control of the other's life. The goose-stepper,
                                        the fox, is thus guilty of violating the ECK precept of allowing others to have
                                        their freedom.

                                        Such a person thinks that his ego is under control as much as that of another."
                                        >
                                        [ME]: This is true of HK as well. Just look at how Eckists are promoted. One has
                                        to be in a clique, fly under the radar, and keep silent. Also, there's keeping the
                                        paid membership on-going and taking the trainings and doing the volunteer
                                        thing to stay in the Eck spotlight.
                                        >
                                        HK: "He licks the boots of those above him in the hierarchy and expects those
                                        below him to lick his. He is truly schizophrenic. He and his like are few in
                                        number, BUT they do so much damage to the ECK missionary effort. They are
                                        like an atomic bomb exploding over a city."
                                        >
                                        [ME]: Boot licking and ass kissing too! HK did plenty in his day and yet never
                                        saw fit to change things in all these years as LEM. So why doesn't Klemp
                                        have more oversight? There should be someone at the ESC that Eck Leaders
                                        can call and remain anonymous or immune from repercussions. In many cases
                                        the RESA is a big part of the problem, especially, if you're complaining about
                                        their friend! Another thing, most Eckists will remain silent about the negativity
                                        they see because they are obeying the Law of Silence and are refraining from
                                        spreading negativity... besides it's all Karmic and the Inner Master knows
                                        everything... right! Catch-22 Klempster!
                                        >
                                        HK: "You may get reports of a fox operating in a Satsang class, as someone in
                                        charge of ECK intro talks, or in other important ECK activities. Keep your
                                        eyes and ears open. Find out IF anything is behind the rumors, and inform
                                        the local ECK leadership or the RESA.

                                        Keep in mind that ECK chelas are precious Souls. They deserve love and
                                        respect. They're serving ECK out of love, not for a pot of gold. Sweep the way
                                        clear of a fox. Allow the ECK chelas to serve. Let them unfold, so that their
                                        spiritual reward can be greater than any pot of gold. Harold"
                                        >
                                        [ME] The only "spiritual reward" that Eck Leaders have are their GOLD LEAVES
                                        and a bucket full of promises. H.I.s should look around and see all of the
                                        unqualified leaders that share their initiation circle or a higher circle. Why?
                                        Because Higher Initiation is not related to Higher Consciousness. The by-
                                        product of higher consciousness is not an initiation number and this is why
                                        many Eckists discount the importance of the upper high initiations! Besides,
                                        there's that 7th initiation ceiling for 99.999% of Eckists. The RESA position is
                                        just another badge to wear and does not bring with it higher consciousness
                                        either! It's all just more and more illusion and religious dogma!
                                        >
                                        Prometheus
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