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Re: Former Eckist James P. Davis - THE ROSETTA STONE OF GOD

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  • makiztor
    ... [....] ... [....] ... Dear Elizabeth (Hi everyone), the T.S. post about James Davis was one that I remembered reading a long time ago. Even before I ever
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 2, 2006
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      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
      <ewickings@...> wrote:
      >
      > Good morning all!
      >
      > I wanted to revisit this excellent post, originally posted by
      > Prometheus in May of this year. The reason I do so, is because I
      > noticed over on Hu-chat our friend Etznab asked a very important
      > question (which no one on Hu-chat bothered to answer!) concerning
      > James Davis the author of "The Rosetta Stone of God"

      [....]

      > Etznab this one is for you my friend, read below! If you have
      > further questions, I am sure many of us here are willing to assist
      > you in any way we can.
      >
      > I hope you are well. Wishing you a Peaceful, Wonderful Holiday
      > Season!
      >
      > Elizabeth

      [....]
      >
      >
      Dear Elizabeth (Hi everyone), the T.S. post about James Davis
      was one that I remembered reading a long time ago. Even before I
      ever mentioned him in a post. I thought that his book(s) talked
      about cycles - and I shared that.
      What was the question (to which you refer) that I asked?

      Etznab
    • Elizabeth
      Hello Etznab, Most Eckists will not have an honest dialog about topics such as the Eckists that have left, such as James Davis. In fact I am surprised Grace
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 2, 2006
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        Hello Etznab,

        Most Eckists will not have an honest dialog about topics such as the
        Eckists that have left, such as James Davis. In fact I am
        surprised Grace even bothered to answer even as much (or little) as
        she did.

        I knew James Davis, and attended several HI retreats and various
        meetings with him. Back in 1999 I knew he was having questions
        about the validity of the Mahanta, Eck Masters and Eckankar the
        Org., based on conversations held in a round table workshop I was
        part of with him. (He was promoting his "Rosetta" book at the
        time.)

        Basically you will need to do most of your own "Digging" to find
        the answer to the 12 cycles question. And as always, Eckists will
        have you either take it on the inner, or will claim "All Eckists
        have known about 12 year cycles and more - like mini-cycles Within
        the 12 years - having been taught by Paul Twitchell. Sri Harold
        Expanded on the system for us many years ago". BUT will they
        answer by giving you the proof you look for, say in quotes, books
        with pages listed, or how about discourses? All of which should be
        readily available right on the internet. Maybe someone from ESA can
        help you with the digging?!

        Glad you are still around Etznab. I really do enjoy your "presents"
        (spelled incorrectly for a reason!).

        Elizabeth


        Hu-chat message # 56838
        I'm not so sure about this, but maybe someone can write a follow
        Up with more details. I believe it was author James Davis who wrote
        A book called The Rosetta Stone of God (or something like that) that
        Talked about cycles. At least the number 12 was mentioned. Is there
        Any connection between this book and the twelve year cycles? I am
        Not sure.

        James Davis also wrote The Dream Weaver Chronicles (is that
        Correct?) in which he talked about history, waking dreams, and
        Cycles.

        I'm sharing this information because I believe these two books
        Could give some insight about history and cycles in general. The
        Rosetta Stone of God was all about the Mahanta, as I remember.

        Hope this helps.

        Etznab

        Hu-chat message #56845
        All Eckists have known about 12 year cycles and more - like mini-
        cycles
        Within the 12 years - having been taught by Paul Twitchell. Sri
        Harold
        Expanded on the system for us many years ago. That's how James Paul
        Davis
        Knew about them also! I believe he worked closely with Sri Harold at
        the
        Time he wrote these.
        Dream Weaver was based on what several of us had already discussed
        and
        Concluded. The other book I have not read....

        In ECK,
        Grace

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "makiztor"
        <etznab@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
        > <ewickings@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Good morning all!
        > >
        > > I wanted to revisit this excellent post, originally posted by
        > > Prometheus in May of this year. The reason I do so, is because
        I
        > > noticed over on Hu-chat our friend Etznab asked a very important
        > > question (which no one on Hu-chat bothered to answer!)
        concerning
        > > James Davis the author of "The Rosetta Stone of God"
        >
        > [....]
        >
        > > Etznab this one is for you my friend, read below! If you have
        > > further questions, I am sure many of us here are willing to
        assist
        > > you in any way we can.
        > >
        > > I hope you are well. Wishing you a Peaceful, Wonderful Holiday
        > > Season!
        > >
        > > Elizabeth
        >
        > [....]
        > >
        > >
        > Dear Elizabeth (Hi everyone), the T.S. post about James Davis
        > was one that I remembered reading a long time ago. Even before I
        > ever mentioned him in a post. I thought that his book(s) talked
        > about cycles - and I shared that.
        > What was the question (to which you refer) that I asked?
        >
        > Etznab
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello All, James Davis silently Quit ECKANKAR Years Ago! These comments by former ECKist James Davis show that testimonials about experiences and visitations
        Message 3 of 6 , May 27, 2008
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          Hello All,
          James Davis silently Quit ECKANKAR Years Ago!
          These comments by former ECKist James Davis
          show that testimonials about experiences and
          visitations with the Mahanta and other ECK "Masters"
          aren't what they seem or "appear" to be.

          I thought this was worth a revisit since many ECKists
          aren't even aware that James Davis rejected Klemp and
          the ECKANKAR (ECK) Teachings of Twitchell that were
          handed down to Gross by PT's widow Gail. Klemp merely
          took over the copyrighted materials, embellished it with
          "stories" and put his Christian spin on it to make it seem
          newly refreshed and "real" via the use of imagination!

          Enjoy the read!

          Prometheus
          ***************************************************************
          mish wrote:

          A Repost of James Davis from Truth Seeker that explains why
          he left Eckankar:

          Rosetta Stone of God author J. Davis Responds to Confessions

          From: James Davis
          Being the author of a book on the Mahanta titled THE ROSETTA
          STONE OF GOD, I would like to add my voice to those who have
          chosen to leave Eckankar. I quietly left Eckankar several years ago,
          having come to many of the same conclusions Ford arrived at in
          his own book. At the time I left, I wrote a letter to Harold saying
          I would make no announcements about my leaving. But I have since
          learned that it is a very "open secret" that I left - not through any
          acts of my own, but from various Eckists in who work at the main
          office, and a few others. So I now feel it is appropriate to say a few
          words about my leaving, and about Ford's book.

          During my almost three decades in Eckankar I became increasingly
          troubled by what I perceived as the weak integrity within the
          teachings and of the leaders. At the same time I struggled against
          these impressions because I deeply WANTED Eckankar to be the
          ideal teaching I had hoped and dreamed of. I deeply WANTED to
          Living Eck Masters to be more than I was witnessing.

          I came to the point in the late Nineties where I decided to give
          the teachings the fullest and deepest study I could (both on the
          Inner and the Outer) in order to settle my doubts once and for all.
          I chose to focus on the Mahanta as the theme of my study and
          contemplation since this doctrine is the heart and soul of Eckankar.

          I spent over a year researching every word ever written or spoken
          on the Mahanta that were available to me. I poured through decades
          of my personal journals looking for clues from my own experience
          to supplement the outer teachings. I inwardly invited the Nine Silent
          Ones and the Eck Masters to help with my project. Then I set about
          writing the best book I could on all I had found.

          The finished manuscript was sent in and quickly got approved
          for publication by Harold Klemp. For a few months I was euphoric
          and felt I had finally laid to rest my misgivings about the teachings.
          But the effect soon wore off for, after all, the issues that gave
          rise to the writing were still there - as Ford's book aptly
          demonstrates. The issues can't be made to go away by an act of
          fervent devotion. Or should I say, they can be made to go away for
          awhile, or by denial. But for many people, such avoidance tactics
          wear thin after a time.

          I realized the whole writing project of THE ROSETTA STONE OF GOD
          had been an utter failure in its prime objective of settling my issues.
          Whatever value it held for others, it failed for me.

          Yet, with the publication of the book came the usual attention
          that goes with being an Eckankar author. And in this I discovered
          how eager many people are to elevate the spiritual status of those
          who are reporting intimate spiritual experiences with masters.
          A number of Eckists, including Higher Initiates, either intimated
          that I was a candidate for Eck Mastership, or openly made comments
          or wrote letters to me to this effect. Some even had "got it on the
          inner" that this was the case. Those who know me well and were
          privy to some of this, found this elevation amusing enough. But
          it became abundantly clear to me how easy a person like Paul,
          who could not only write well, but who had a certain charisma
          and claimed an abundance of experiences with inner masters,
          would sweep followers off their feet.

          I have little if any charisma, but I can write a fairly decent book.
          This apparently was sufficient for many. The experience of being
          on the receiving end of admiring Eckists was a sobering first hand
          look from the other end of the scope of my own tendency to elevate
          the leaders of Eckankar.

          I won't go into the details of the issues I have with the Eckankar
          teachings, for most of these issues are addressed in Ford's book.
          My conclusions are not the same as Ford's in all cases. For example,
          whether people such as Rebazar Tarzs are real or not real hardly
          played a part in my decision to leave, whereas Ford categorically
          asserts the Vairagi masters are pure fiction. I had decided that,
          if men like Paul and Darwin and Harold were truly the best and
          brightest candidates that a band of high inner masters would choose
          to be the head of their order and be the chosen supreme channel
          for God on Earth, than I was not interested in following such an order.

          On the other hand, I felt, if there is an order of very high masters
          similar to the Vairagi that Paul protrayed, I seriously doubted they
          would hitch their wagon to a movement like Eckankar. So the whole
          debate about whether some of these masters are real or not is not
          a central one for me personally.

          There are a few other conclusions I reached that differ a bit
          from Ford's, and this is as it should be for anyone thinking for
          themselves. But on the whole, my own research and experience
          support Ford's conclusions. If you read Ford's book, you will find
          a multitude of issues worth carefully thinking over - a number
          of which you may never have considered before.

          Incidently, Ford has been accused by some critics as being too
          mental, of not showing an attitude of love. It would be hard for
          anyone to write a book deconstructing Eckankar without seeming
          hard-hearted to an Eckankar devotee. How do you call the beloved
          founder Paul Twitchell a liar and a fraud and still sound like a Golden
          Heart? But there is more to the demonstration of love than sweet
          platitudes, warm feelings, and cute stories. Tough-love is real, and
          in the spiritual tradition it leads (or pushes) Soul onwards towards
          God. I see no love in comforting others with gentle lies, nor in
          telling them they will suffer spiritual decline and misery if they
          leave the Eckankar club. One of the primary reasons I decided to
          leave Eckankar was precisely because the pronouncements of love
          made by the leaders was contradicted all too often by their actions
          and harsh denouncement of those who disagreed with them, or
          those who choose to follow another road, or of other "inferior" paths.

          As with many who leave the Eckankar religion, I have felt a certain
          amount of loss. Not just the loss of an ideal, but the absence of a
          community of friends, and the wonderful sharing that happens at
          many Eckankar events. But I have not regretted for a moment the
          spiritual implications of leaving. To have stayed, for me, would have
          been a rejection of what Eckankar calls The Call of Soul - a call which
          urged me to let go of a religion which had served its purpose in my
          journey, and had become an impediment to my further growth.

          ####

          Truth Seeker added these comments at the end of James Davis' post:

          Thank you for coming forward. There are many who hold on to your
          book as the final validation of the mahanta. That is why Harold was
          so quick to promote it. I hope that your candor and courage will
          encourage others,who are hanging fire and holding on to this last
          fabricated vistage of Eckankar doctrine, to also have the courage to
          read the book and then act on their inner spiritual guidance. Only
          then can the Eckankar spell be broken.

          TS
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