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Former Eckist James P. Davis - THE ROSETTA STONE OF GOD

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  • Elizabeth
    Good morning all! I wanted to revisit this excellent post, originally posted by Prometheus in May of this year. The reason I do so, is because I noticed over
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 2, 2006
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      Good morning all!

      I wanted to revisit this excellent post, originally posted by
      Prometheus in May of this year. The reason I do so, is because I
      noticed over on Hu-chat our friend Etznab asked a very important
      question (which no one on Hu-chat bothered to answer!) concerning
      James Davis the author of "The Rosetta Stone of God", (which BTW was
      *REMOVED BY ECKANKAR BY ORDER OF THE LEM KLEMP* for obvious reasons
      to us, but not to most members of ECKANKAR) that James Davis is NO
      LONGER AN ECKIST! Hence the reason KLEMP had to rewrite some
      history, as well as a replacement book titled "Those Wonderful Eck
      Masters".

      Most Eckists won't bother to question why certains books, once held
      up as TRUTH by Klemp and Company, are no longer available. Those
      that are aware of the whys, well they are told not to speak about
      it! So the secrets and the lies continue... as they did when Darwin
      Gross was booted. All this is called a cover up, to protect the
      financial structure of the business called Eckankar!

      Etznab this one is for you my friend, read below! If you have
      further questions, I am sure many of us here are willing to assist
      you in any way we can.

      I hope you are well. Wishing you a Peaceful, Wonderful Holiday
      Season!

      Elizabeth


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi All,
      > I thought that this post by former Eckist James Davis would be
      nice
      > to revisit at this time. It just goes to show, Eckists, that there
      > is more going on than they are aware of... and sometimes much less!
      >
      >
      > A Repost of James Davis from Truth Seeker (9/25/2003) that
      explains
      > why he left Eckankar:
      >
      > Rosetta Stone of God author J. Davis Responds to Confessions
      >
      > From: James Davis
      > Being the author of a book on the Mahanta titled THE ROSETTA STONE
      > OF GOD, I would like to add my voice to those who have chosen to
      > leave Eckankar. I quietly left Eckankar several years ago, having
      > come to many of the same conclusions Ford arrived at in his own
      > book. At the time I left, I wrote a letter to Harold saying I
      would
      > make no announcements about my leaving. But I have since learned
      > that it is a very "open secret" that I left - not through any acts
      > of my own, but from various Eckists in who work at the main
      office,
      > and a few others. So I now feel it is appropriate to say a few
      words
      > about my leaving, and about Ford's book.
      >
      > During my almost three decades in Eckankar I became increasingly
      > troubled by what I perceived as the weak integrity within the
      > teachings and of the leaders. At the same time I struggled against
      > these impressions because I deeply WANTED Eckankar to be the ideal
      > teaching I had hoped and dreamed of. I deeply WANTED to Living Eck
      > Masters to be more than I was witnessing.
      >
      > I came to the point in the late Nineties where I decided to give
      the
      > teachings the fullest and deepest study I could (both on the Inner
      > and the Outer) in order to settle my doubts once and for all. I
      > chose to focus on the Mahanta as the theme of my study and
      > contemplation since this doctrine is the heart and soul of
      Eckankar.
      >
      > I spent over a year researching every word ever written or spoken
      on
      > the Mahanta that were available to me. I poured through decades of
      > my personal journals looking for clues from my own experience to
      > supplement the outer teachings. I inwardly invited the Nine Silent
      > Ones and the Eck Masters to help with my project. Then I set about
      > writing the best book I could on all I had found.
      >
      > The finished manuscript was sent in and quickly got approved for
      > publication by Harold Klemp. For a few months I was euphoric and
      > felt I had finally laid to rest my misgivings about the teachings.
      > But the effect soon wore off for, after all, the issues that gave
      > rise to the writing were still there - as Ford's book aptly
      > demonstrates. The issues can't be made to go away by an act of
      > fervent devotion. Or should I say, they can be made to go away for
      > awhile, or by denial. But for many people, such avoidance tactics
      > wear thin after a time.
      >
      > I realized the whole writing project of THE ROSETTA STONE OF GOD
      had
      > been an utter failure in its prime objective of settling my
      issues.
      > Whatever value it held for others, it failed for me.
      >
      > Yet, with the publication of the book came the usual attention
      that
      > goes with being an Eckankar author. And in this I discovered how
      > eager many people are to elevate the spiritual status of those who
      > are reporting intimate spiritual experiences with masters. A
      number
      > of Eckists, including Higher Initiates, either intimated that I
      was
      > a candidate for Eck Mastership, or openly made comments or wrote
      > letters to me to this effect. Some even had "got it on the inner"
      > that this was the case. Those who know me well and were privy to
      > some of this, found this elevation amusing enough. But it became
      > abundantly clear to me how easy a person like Paul, who could not
      > only write well, but who had a certain charisma and claimed an
      > abundance of experiences with inner masters, would sweep followers
      > off their feet.
      >
      > I have little if any charisma, but I can write a fairly decent
      book.
      > This apparently was sufficient for many. The experience of being
      on
      > the receiving end of admiring Eckists was a sobering first hand
      look
      > from the other end of the scope of my own tendency to elevate the
      > leaders of Eckankar.
      >
      > I won't go into the details of the issues I have with the Eckankar
      > teachings, for most of these issues are addressed in Ford's book.
      My
      > conclusions are not the same as Ford's in all cases. For example,
      > whether people such as Rebazar Tarzs are real or not real hardly
      > played a part in my decision to leave, whereas Ford categorically
      > asserts the Vairagi masters are pure fiction. I had decided that,
      if
      > men like Paul and Darwin and Harold were truly the best and
      > brightest candidates that a band of high inner masters would
      choose
      > to be the head of their order and be the chosen supreme channel
      for
      > God on Earth, than I was not interested in following such an
      order.
      >
      > On the other hand, I felt, if there is an order of very high
      masters
      > similar to the Vairagi that Paul protrayed, I seriously doubted
      they
      > would hitch their wagon to a movement like Eckankar. So the whole
      > debate about whether some of these masters are real or not is not
      a
      > central one for me personally.
      >
      > There are a few other conclusions I reached that differ a bit from
      > Ford's, and this is as it should be for anyone thinking for
      > themselves. But on the whole, my own research and experience
      support
      > Ford's conclusions. If you read Ford's book, you will find a
      > multitude of issues worth carefully thinking over - a number of
      > which you may never have considered before.
      >
      > Incidently, Ford has been accused by some critics as being too
      > mental, of not showing an attitude of love. It would be hard for
      > anyone to write a book deconstructing Eckankar without seeming
      hard-
      > hearted to an Eckankar devotee. How do you call the beloved
      founder
      > Paul Twitchell a liar and a fraud and still sound like a Golden
      > Heart? But there is more to the demonstration of love than sweet
      > platitudes, warm feelings, and cute stories. Tough-love is real,
      and
      > in the spiritual tradition it leads (or pushes) Soul onwards
      towards
      > God. I see no love in comforting others with gentle lies, nor in
      > telling them they will suffer spiritual decline and misery if they
      > leave the Eckankar club. One of the primary reasons I decided to
      > leave Eckankar was precisely because the pronouncements of love
      made
      > by the leaders was contradicted all too often by their actions and
      > harsh denouncement of those who disagreed with them, or those who
      > choose to follow another road, or of other "inferior" paths.
      >
      > As with many who leave the Eckankar religion, I have felt a
      certain
      > amount of loss. Not just the loss of an ideal, but the absence of
      a
      > community of friends, and the wonderful sharing that happens at
      many
      > Eckankar events. But I have not regretted for a moment the
      spiritual
      > implications of leaving. To have stayed, for me, would have been a
      > rejection of what Eckankar calls The Call of Soul - a call which
      > urged me to let go of a religion which had served its purpose in
      my
      > journey, and had become an impediment to my further growth.
      >
      > ####
      > Truth Seeker added these comments at the end of James Davis' post:
      >
      > Thank you for coming forward. There are many who hold on to your
      > book as the final validation of the mahanta. That is why Harold
      was
      > so quick to promote it. I hope that your candor and courage will
      > encourage others,who are hanging fire and holding on to this last
      > fabricated vistage of Eckankar doctrine, to also have the courage
      to
      > read the book and then act on their inner spiritual guidance. Only
      > then can the Eckankar spell be broken.
      >
      > TS
      >
    • makiztor
      ... [....] ... [....] ... Dear Elizabeth (Hi everyone), the T.S. post about James Davis was one that I remembered reading a long time ago. Even before I ever
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 2, 2006
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        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
        <ewickings@...> wrote:
        >
        > Good morning all!
        >
        > I wanted to revisit this excellent post, originally posted by
        > Prometheus in May of this year. The reason I do so, is because I
        > noticed over on Hu-chat our friend Etznab asked a very important
        > question (which no one on Hu-chat bothered to answer!) concerning
        > James Davis the author of "The Rosetta Stone of God"

        [....]

        > Etznab this one is for you my friend, read below! If you have
        > further questions, I am sure many of us here are willing to assist
        > you in any way we can.
        >
        > I hope you are well. Wishing you a Peaceful, Wonderful Holiday
        > Season!
        >
        > Elizabeth

        [....]
        >
        >
        Dear Elizabeth (Hi everyone), the T.S. post about James Davis
        was one that I remembered reading a long time ago. Even before I
        ever mentioned him in a post. I thought that his book(s) talked
        about cycles - and I shared that.
        What was the question (to which you refer) that I asked?

        Etznab
      • Elizabeth
        Hello Etznab, Most Eckists will not have an honest dialog about topics such as the Eckists that have left, such as James Davis. In fact I am surprised Grace
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 2, 2006
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          Hello Etznab,

          Most Eckists will not have an honest dialog about topics such as the
          Eckists that have left, such as James Davis. In fact I am
          surprised Grace even bothered to answer even as much (or little) as
          she did.

          I knew James Davis, and attended several HI retreats and various
          meetings with him. Back in 1999 I knew he was having questions
          about the validity of the Mahanta, Eck Masters and Eckankar the
          Org., based on conversations held in a round table workshop I was
          part of with him. (He was promoting his "Rosetta" book at the
          time.)

          Basically you will need to do most of your own "Digging" to find
          the answer to the 12 cycles question. And as always, Eckists will
          have you either take it on the inner, or will claim "All Eckists
          have known about 12 year cycles and more - like mini-cycles Within
          the 12 years - having been taught by Paul Twitchell. Sri Harold
          Expanded on the system for us many years ago". BUT will they
          answer by giving you the proof you look for, say in quotes, books
          with pages listed, or how about discourses? All of which should be
          readily available right on the internet. Maybe someone from ESA can
          help you with the digging?!

          Glad you are still around Etznab. I really do enjoy your "presents"
          (spelled incorrectly for a reason!).

          Elizabeth


          Hu-chat message # 56838
          I'm not so sure about this, but maybe someone can write a follow
          Up with more details. I believe it was author James Davis who wrote
          A book called The Rosetta Stone of God (or something like that) that
          Talked about cycles. At least the number 12 was mentioned. Is there
          Any connection between this book and the twelve year cycles? I am
          Not sure.

          James Davis also wrote The Dream Weaver Chronicles (is that
          Correct?) in which he talked about history, waking dreams, and
          Cycles.

          I'm sharing this information because I believe these two books
          Could give some insight about history and cycles in general. The
          Rosetta Stone of God was all about the Mahanta, as I remember.

          Hope this helps.

          Etznab

          Hu-chat message #56845
          All Eckists have known about 12 year cycles and more - like mini-
          cycles
          Within the 12 years - having been taught by Paul Twitchell. Sri
          Harold
          Expanded on the system for us many years ago. That's how James Paul
          Davis
          Knew about them also! I believe he worked closely with Sri Harold at
          the
          Time he wrote these.
          Dream Weaver was based on what several of us had already discussed
          and
          Concluded. The other book I have not read....

          In ECK,
          Grace

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "makiztor"
          <etznab@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
          > <ewickings@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Good morning all!
          > >
          > > I wanted to revisit this excellent post, originally posted by
          > > Prometheus in May of this year. The reason I do so, is because
          I
          > > noticed over on Hu-chat our friend Etznab asked a very important
          > > question (which no one on Hu-chat bothered to answer!)
          concerning
          > > James Davis the author of "The Rosetta Stone of God"
          >
          > [....]
          >
          > > Etznab this one is for you my friend, read below! If you have
          > > further questions, I am sure many of us here are willing to
          assist
          > > you in any way we can.
          > >
          > > I hope you are well. Wishing you a Peaceful, Wonderful Holiday
          > > Season!
          > >
          > > Elizabeth
          >
          > [....]
          > >
          > >
          > Dear Elizabeth (Hi everyone), the T.S. post about James Davis
          > was one that I remembered reading a long time ago. Even before I
          > ever mentioned him in a post. I thought that his book(s) talked
          > about cycles - and I shared that.
          > What was the question (to which you refer) that I asked?
          >
          > Etznab
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, James Davis silently Quit ECKANKAR Years Ago! These comments by former ECKist James Davis show that testimonials about experiences and visitations
          Message 4 of 6 , May 27, 2008
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            Hello All,
            James Davis silently Quit ECKANKAR Years Ago!
            These comments by former ECKist James Davis
            show that testimonials about experiences and
            visitations with the Mahanta and other ECK "Masters"
            aren't what they seem or "appear" to be.

            I thought this was worth a revisit since many ECKists
            aren't even aware that James Davis rejected Klemp and
            the ECKANKAR (ECK) Teachings of Twitchell that were
            handed down to Gross by PT's widow Gail. Klemp merely
            took over the copyrighted materials, embellished it with
            "stories" and put his Christian spin on it to make it seem
            newly refreshed and "real" via the use of imagination!

            Enjoy the read!

            Prometheus
            ***************************************************************
            mish wrote:

            A Repost of James Davis from Truth Seeker that explains why
            he left Eckankar:

            Rosetta Stone of God author J. Davis Responds to Confessions

            From: James Davis
            Being the author of a book on the Mahanta titled THE ROSETTA
            STONE OF GOD, I would like to add my voice to those who have
            chosen to leave Eckankar. I quietly left Eckankar several years ago,
            having come to many of the same conclusions Ford arrived at in
            his own book. At the time I left, I wrote a letter to Harold saying
            I would make no announcements about my leaving. But I have since
            learned that it is a very "open secret" that I left - not through any
            acts of my own, but from various Eckists in who work at the main
            office, and a few others. So I now feel it is appropriate to say a few
            words about my leaving, and about Ford's book.

            During my almost three decades in Eckankar I became increasingly
            troubled by what I perceived as the weak integrity within the
            teachings and of the leaders. At the same time I struggled against
            these impressions because I deeply WANTED Eckankar to be the
            ideal teaching I had hoped and dreamed of. I deeply WANTED to
            Living Eck Masters to be more than I was witnessing.

            I came to the point in the late Nineties where I decided to give
            the teachings the fullest and deepest study I could (both on the
            Inner and the Outer) in order to settle my doubts once and for all.
            I chose to focus on the Mahanta as the theme of my study and
            contemplation since this doctrine is the heart and soul of Eckankar.

            I spent over a year researching every word ever written or spoken
            on the Mahanta that were available to me. I poured through decades
            of my personal journals looking for clues from my own experience
            to supplement the outer teachings. I inwardly invited the Nine Silent
            Ones and the Eck Masters to help with my project. Then I set about
            writing the best book I could on all I had found.

            The finished manuscript was sent in and quickly got approved
            for publication by Harold Klemp. For a few months I was euphoric
            and felt I had finally laid to rest my misgivings about the teachings.
            But the effect soon wore off for, after all, the issues that gave
            rise to the writing were still there - as Ford's book aptly
            demonstrates. The issues can't be made to go away by an act of
            fervent devotion. Or should I say, they can be made to go away for
            awhile, or by denial. But for many people, such avoidance tactics
            wear thin after a time.

            I realized the whole writing project of THE ROSETTA STONE OF GOD
            had been an utter failure in its prime objective of settling my issues.
            Whatever value it held for others, it failed for me.

            Yet, with the publication of the book came the usual attention
            that goes with being an Eckankar author. And in this I discovered
            how eager many people are to elevate the spiritual status of those
            who are reporting intimate spiritual experiences with masters.
            A number of Eckists, including Higher Initiates, either intimated
            that I was a candidate for Eck Mastership, or openly made comments
            or wrote letters to me to this effect. Some even had "got it on the
            inner" that this was the case. Those who know me well and were
            privy to some of this, found this elevation amusing enough. But
            it became abundantly clear to me how easy a person like Paul,
            who could not only write well, but who had a certain charisma
            and claimed an abundance of experiences with inner masters,
            would sweep followers off their feet.

            I have little if any charisma, but I can write a fairly decent book.
            This apparently was sufficient for many. The experience of being
            on the receiving end of admiring Eckists was a sobering first hand
            look from the other end of the scope of my own tendency to elevate
            the leaders of Eckankar.

            I won't go into the details of the issues I have with the Eckankar
            teachings, for most of these issues are addressed in Ford's book.
            My conclusions are not the same as Ford's in all cases. For example,
            whether people such as Rebazar Tarzs are real or not real hardly
            played a part in my decision to leave, whereas Ford categorically
            asserts the Vairagi masters are pure fiction. I had decided that,
            if men like Paul and Darwin and Harold were truly the best and
            brightest candidates that a band of high inner masters would choose
            to be the head of their order and be the chosen supreme channel
            for God on Earth, than I was not interested in following such an order.

            On the other hand, I felt, if there is an order of very high masters
            similar to the Vairagi that Paul protrayed, I seriously doubted they
            would hitch their wagon to a movement like Eckankar. So the whole
            debate about whether some of these masters are real or not is not
            a central one for me personally.

            There are a few other conclusions I reached that differ a bit
            from Ford's, and this is as it should be for anyone thinking for
            themselves. But on the whole, my own research and experience
            support Ford's conclusions. If you read Ford's book, you will find
            a multitude of issues worth carefully thinking over - a number
            of which you may never have considered before.

            Incidently, Ford has been accused by some critics as being too
            mental, of not showing an attitude of love. It would be hard for
            anyone to write a book deconstructing Eckankar without seeming
            hard-hearted to an Eckankar devotee. How do you call the beloved
            founder Paul Twitchell a liar and a fraud and still sound like a Golden
            Heart? But there is more to the demonstration of love than sweet
            platitudes, warm feelings, and cute stories. Tough-love is real, and
            in the spiritual tradition it leads (or pushes) Soul onwards towards
            God. I see no love in comforting others with gentle lies, nor in
            telling them they will suffer spiritual decline and misery if they
            leave the Eckankar club. One of the primary reasons I decided to
            leave Eckankar was precisely because the pronouncements of love
            made by the leaders was contradicted all too often by their actions
            and harsh denouncement of those who disagreed with them, or
            those who choose to follow another road, or of other "inferior" paths.

            As with many who leave the Eckankar religion, I have felt a certain
            amount of loss. Not just the loss of an ideal, but the absence of a
            community of friends, and the wonderful sharing that happens at
            many Eckankar events. But I have not regretted for a moment the
            spiritual implications of leaving. To have stayed, for me, would have
            been a rejection of what Eckankar calls The Call of Soul - a call which
            urged me to let go of a religion which had served its purpose in my
            journey, and had become an impediment to my further growth.

            ####

            Truth Seeker added these comments at the end of James Davis' post:

            Thank you for coming forward. There are many who hold on to your
            book as the final validation of the mahanta. That is why Harold was
            so quick to promote it. I hope that your candor and courage will
            encourage others,who are hanging fire and holding on to this last
            fabricated vistage of Eckankar doctrine, to also have the courage to
            read the book and then act on their inner spiritual guidance. Only
            then can the Eckankar spell be broken.

            TS
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