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the new cher

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  • zoey_true
    Couple of years back a friend and I confirmed, for anyone with sense to see, what cher is all about. I set myself up as a detractor, while my friend set
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 30, 2006
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      Couple of years back a friend and I confirmed, for anyone with sense to
      see, what cher is all about. I set myself up as a detractor, while my
      friend set himself up as pro-eck. My friend would post passages which
      he credited to klemp or twitchell. Mostly these passages were
      hogwash. Although the passages sounded quite esoteric, they were
      totally senseless manure. Cher would praise them, agree with them,
      condone them, etc etc etc simply because he put the eck brand on the
      mess. Sometimes he posted passages that utterly contradicted eckankar
      perceptions, and again, they sounded quite mystical. As long as the
      stuff was attributed to eck literature, chernobyl was dancing on her
      fat little feet in agreement.

      I, on the other hand, posted passages straight from klemp and
      twitchell. I often quoted the shariyat. Because I was a known
      detractor, chernut tore sh** out of it all. It's not that I would
      expect even the most aredent eckist to memorize the entire eck library,
      but the passages I posted encapsulated key concepts. But I attributed
      them to Ford, or Lane, or whoever; so the enlightened eckists pissed on
      their own scripture.

      In all fairness I met a few, a very few, eckists who had some grasp of
      spiritual process - and chose, for whatever personal reasons, to stay
      with eckankar. But the majority were variations of cher. Folks who
      had simply grabbed on to an available raft. It could have been any
      raft, but, in their moment of need, the eck ship floated across their
      transom.

      For the chers, eckankar exists as some conglomeration of personal need
      and makeshift spiritual ideas. The potential for authentic growth,
      even transformation, which is possible when one undertakes a spiritual
      discipline (vigorous self honesty), totally eludes the chers as they
      pass out fliers, post endless eckle platitudes, and battle the
      detractors. This mindless warfare is the substitute for the rigors of
      authentic evaluation.

      zoey
    • mishmisha9
      ... wrote: Couple of years back a friend and I confirmed, for anyone with sense to see, what cher is all about. I set myself up as a
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 1, 2006
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        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "zoey_true"
        <zoey_true@...> wrote:

        Couple of years back a friend and I confirmed, for anyone with sense
        to see, what cher is all about. I set myself up as a detractor,
        while my friend set himself up as pro-eck. My friend would post
        passages which he credited to klemp or twitchell. Mostly these
        passages were hogwash. Although the passages sounded quite
        esoteric, they were totally senseless manure. Cher would praise
        them, agree with them, condone them, etc etc etc simply because he
        put the eck brand on the mess. Sometimes he posted passages that
        utterly contradicted eckankar perceptions, and again, they sounded
        quite mystical. As long as the stuff was attributed to eck
        literature, chernobyl was dancing on her fat little feet in
        agreement.

        I, on the other hand, posted passages straight from klemp and
        twitchell. I often quoted the shariyat. Because I was a known
        detractor, chernut tore sh** out of it all. It's not that I would
        expect even the most aredent eckist to memorize the entire eck
        library, but the passages I posted encapsulated key concepts. But I
        attributed them to Ford, or Lane, or whoever; so the enlightened
        eckists pissed on their own scripture.

        In all fairness I met a few, a very few, eckists who had some grasp
        of spiritual process - and chose, for whatever personal reasons, to
        stay with eckankar. But the majority were variations of cher.
        Folks who had simply grabbed on to an available raft. It could have
        been any raft, but, in their moment of need, the eck ship floated
        across their transom.

        For the chers, eckankar exists as some conglomeration of personal
        need and makeshift spiritual ideas. The potential for authentic
        growth, even transformation, which is possible when one undertakes a
        spiritual discipline (vigorous self honesty), totally eludes the
        chers as they pass out fliers, post endless eckle platitudes, and
        battle the detractors. This mindless warfare is the substitute for
        the rigors of authentic evaluation.

        zoey
        >

        Hi, Zoey!

        I think I read this dialogue with Cher over on A.R.E., but I don't
        recall how she extricated herself from "the" test! Or if she was
        even clued in that it was a test that she failed miserably. The one
        thing I notice with Cheryl, and the other eckists like her, is that
        she seldom if ever apologizes for being wrong, nasty, insensitive,
        etc. The best one can expect is a slight acknowledgment with one of
        her "<grin>"s! Or she sinks back down into the hole she crawls out
        of and remains hidden until she thinks it has all gone away. One
        doesn't know what she is doing behind the scenes as far as getting
        her "friends" stirred up enough to do her battling. Basically,
        though, Cheryl "knows everything!" I mean "everything!" Mention a
        topic and she has the answer or best opinion. She is so well
        schooled and her mental processes are working with such clarity that
        she above all others is above reproach--NOT! Cheryl is a real "big-
        headed" joke, and she's a major reason for people to be turned off
        from eckankar. Her vahana work as exemplified by her higher
        initiation behavior and comments does serve the purpose of
        discouraging others from wanting to get on the eckankar bandwagon. I
        also suspect that she has driven some eckists to leave the
        teachings, because she is definitely good proof that eckankar is (to
        use one of your terms) pure hogwash! Spiritual seekers do not need
        to follow a master or listen to the dribblings of such delusional
        chelas like Cheryl! However, personally, I enjoy watching the
        destructive workings of Cheryl--she does a great job of detracting!
        She's sort of like a team member for us here on ESA! We point out
        the flaws in the teachings and she demonstrates them for us! LOL!

        Mish
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Zoey and Mish, You both make some good points about the Kal-Eckist, Cheryl, on Eckankar s HU-Chat [Vahana (missionary)] site. I always thought that Cheryl
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 1, 2006
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          Hi Zoey and Mish,
          You both make some good points about the Kal-Eckist, Cheryl, on
          Eckankar's HU-Chat [Vahana (missionary)] site. I always thought that
          Cheryl was a frustrated 4th Initiate like Peter A. who had to become
          a "Cleric" via the Universal Life Church. Now a days, Eckists cannot
          become Clerics in Eckankar without two years as a 5th Initiate plus
          the trainings, recommendations, etc.

          C.G.'s vanity would, more than likely, indicate that she was now
          an H.I. I'm always amazed to see how Cheryl ends up negating
          her "humble" and "sensitive" posts with her two-faced <smile>. Yes,
          she's good at judging others without taking any responsibility or
          ownership for her own nastiness. There have been many on HU-Chat
          that never attacked her, but needed to defend themselves or leave
          the site due to her negativity. Cheryl was always the suspicious and
          aggressive one (a true Kal-Eckist) ready to pounce like a mad (and
          untrained) attack dog!

          I'm really surprised that an Eckankar Vahana site like HU-Chat
          wouldn't have oversight by Public Information or RESA Services at
          the ESC. What is Klemp thinking?! Cheryl G. and other like-minded HU-
          Chat Vahanas are loud and clear proof that Eckankar is a big pile of
          crap! There is No Higher Leadership Consciousness by Klemp's RESAs
          or ESC Staff members. And, there is No Higher Consciousness via
          Outer Communication, Responsibility, and Follow-Through by Klemp, as
          the LEM. Therefore, how can there be true Inner Communication by a
          Mahanta if the LEM can't even deal with the Lower Planes! The proof
          is in the pudding and Cheryl and company is proof of Klemp's
          ineffectiveness and claims as a "Modern Prophet" or anything else!

          When the "Prophet" (Klemp) doesn't know about Cheryl types what does
          that say about his powers and insight! Or, if Klemp does "know" of
          Cheryl and permits this Kal like behaviour what does that say about
          Klemp? I really think that the Cheryl types of Kal-Eckists is just
          more proof that Klemp is also a Kal agent and that Eckankar is just
          another illusional religious trap!

          Prometheus


          Zoey wrote:

          Couple of years back a friend and I confirmed, for anyone with sense
          to see, what cher is all about. I set myself up as a detractor,
          while my friend set himself up as pro-eck. My friend would post
          passages which he credited to klemp or twitchell. Mostly these
          passages were hogwash. Although the passages sounded quite
          esoteric, they were totally senseless manure. Cher would praise
          them, agree with them, condone them, etc etc etc simply because he
          put the eck brand on the mess. Sometimes he posted passages that
          utterly contradicted eckankar perceptions, and again, they sounded
          quite mystical. As long as the stuff was attributed to eck
          literature, chernobyl was dancing on her fat little feet in
          agreement.

          I, on the other hand, posted passages straight from klemp and
          twitchell. I often quoted the shariyat. Because I was a known
          detractor, chernut tore sh** out of it all. It's not that I would
          expect even the most aredent eckist to memorize the entire eck
          library, but the passages I posted encapsulated key concepts. But I
          attributed them to Ford, or Lane, or whoever; so the enlightened
          eckists pissed on their own scripture.

          In all fairness I met a few, a very few, eckists who had some grasp
          of spiritual process - and chose, for whatever personal reasons, to
          stay with eckankar. But the majority were variations of cher. Folks
          who had simply grabbed on to an available raft. It could have been
          any raft, but, in their moment of need, the eck ship floated
          across their transom.

          For the chers, eckankar exists as some conglomeration of personal
          need and makeshift spiritual ideas. The potential for authentic
          growth, even transformation, which is possible when one undertakes a
          spiritual discipline (vigorous self honesty), totally eludes the
          chers as they pass out fliers, post endless eckle platitudes, and
          battle the detractors. This mindless warfare is the substitute for
          the rigors of authentic evaluation.

          zoey

          Hi, Zoey!

          I think I read this dialogue with Cher over on A.R.E., but I don't
          recall how she extricated herself from "the" test! Or if she was
          even clued in that it was a test that she failed miserably. The one
          thing I notice with Cheryl, and the other eckists like her, is that
          she seldom if ever apologizes for being wrong, nasty, insensitive,
          etc. The best one can expect is a slight acknowledgment with one of
          her "<grin>"s! Or she sinks back down into the hole she crawls out
          of and remains hidden until she thinks it has all gone away. One
          doesn't know what she is doing behind the scenes as far as getting
          her "friends" stirred up enough to do her battling. Basically,
          though, Cheryl "knows everything!" I mean "everything!" Mention a
          topic and she has the answer or best opinion. She is so well
          schooled and her mental processes are working with such clarity that
          she above all others is above reproach--NOT! Cheryl is a real "big-
          headed" joke, and she's a major reason for people to be turned off
          from eckankar. Her vahana work as exemplified by her higher
          initiation behavior and comments does serve the purpose of
          discouraging others from wanting to get on the eckankar bandwagon. I
          also suspect that she has driven some eckists to leave the
          teachings, because she is definitely good proof that eckankar is (to
          use one of your terms) pure hogwash! Spiritual seekers do not need
          to follow a master or listen to the dribblings of such delusional
          chelas like Cheryl! However, personally, I enjoy watching the
          destructive workings of Cheryl--she does a great job of detracting!
          She's sort of like a team member for us here on ESA! We point out
          the flaws in the teachings and she demonstrates them for us! LOL!

          Mish
        • Non ekster
          Grundee and Company are indeed Kal agents and this has been proven over and over in real time. They are simply slopping around in their own eck poo like the
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 1, 2006
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            Grundee and Company are indeed Kal agents and this has been proven
            over and over in real time. They are simply slopping around in their
            own eck poo like the eck monkeys they are! <smile>

            Noneckster ; )

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Zoey and Mish,
            > You both make some good points about the Kal-Eckist, Cheryl, on
            > Eckankar's HU-Chat [Vahana (missionary)] site. I always thought that
            > Cheryl was a frustrated 4th Initiate like Peter A. who had to become
            > a "Cleric" via the Universal Life Church. Now a days, Eckists cannot
            > become Clerics in Eckankar without two years as a 5th Initiate plus
            > the trainings, recommendations, etc.
            >
            > C.G.'s vanity would, more than likely, indicate that she was now
            > an H.I. I'm always amazed to see how Cheryl ends up negating
            > her "humble" and "sensitive" posts with her two-faced <smile>. Yes,
            > she's good at judging others without taking any responsibility or
            > ownership for her own nastiness. There have been many on HU-Chat
            > that never attacked her, but needed to defend themselves or leave
            > the site due to her negativity. Cheryl was always the suspicious and
            > aggressive one (a true Kal-Eckist) ready to pounce like a mad (and
            > untrained) attack dog!
            >
            > I'm really surprised that an Eckankar Vahana site like HU-Chat
            > wouldn't have oversight by Public Information or RESA Services at
            > the ESC. What is Klemp thinking?! Cheryl G. and other like-minded HU-
            > Chat Vahanas are loud and clear proof that Eckankar is a big pile of
            > crap! There is No Higher Leadership Consciousness by Klemp's RESAs
            > or ESC Staff members. And, there is No Higher Consciousness via
            > Outer Communication, Responsibility, and Follow-Through by Klemp, as
            > the LEM. Therefore, how can there be true Inner Communication by a
            > Mahanta if the LEM can't even deal with the Lower Planes! The proof
            > is in the pudding and Cheryl and company is proof of Klemp's
            > ineffectiveness and claims as a "Modern Prophet" or anything else!
            >
            > When the "Prophet" (Klemp) doesn't know about Cheryl types what does
            > that say about his powers and insight! Or, if Klemp does "know" of
            > Cheryl and permits this Kal like behaviour what does that say about
            > Klemp? I really think that the Cheryl types of Kal-Eckists is just
            > more proof that Klemp is also a Kal agent and that Eckankar is just
            > another illusional religious trap!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > Zoey wrote:
            >
            > Couple of years back a friend and I confirmed, for anyone with sense
            > to see, what cher is all about. I set myself up as a detractor,
            > while my friend set himself up as pro-eck. My friend would post
            > passages which he credited to klemp or twitchell. Mostly these
            > passages were hogwash. Although the passages sounded quite
            > esoteric, they were totally senseless manure. Cher would praise
            > them, agree with them, condone them, etc etc etc simply because he
            > put the eck brand on the mess. Sometimes he posted passages that
            > utterly contradicted eckankar perceptions, and again, they sounded
            > quite mystical. As long as the stuff was attributed to eck
            > literature, chernobyl was dancing on her fat little feet in
            > agreement.
            >
            > I, on the other hand, posted passages straight from klemp and
            > twitchell. I often quoted the shariyat. Because I was a known
            > detractor, chernut tore sh** out of it all. It's not that I would
            > expect even the most aredent eckist to memorize the entire eck
            > library, but the passages I posted encapsulated key concepts. But I
            > attributed them to Ford, or Lane, or whoever; so the enlightened
            > eckists pissed on their own scripture.
            >
            > In all fairness I met a few, a very few, eckists who had some grasp
            > of spiritual process - and chose, for whatever personal reasons, to
            > stay with eckankar. But the majority were variations of cher. Folks
            > who had simply grabbed on to an available raft. It could have been
            > any raft, but, in their moment of need, the eck ship floated
            > across their transom.
            >
            > For the chers, eckankar exists as some conglomeration of personal
            > need and makeshift spiritual ideas. The potential for authentic
            > growth, even transformation, which is possible when one undertakes a
            > spiritual discipline (vigorous self honesty), totally eludes the
            > chers as they pass out fliers, post endless eckle platitudes, and
            > battle the detractors. This mindless warfare is the substitute for
            > the rigors of authentic evaluation.
            >
            > zoey
            >
            > Hi, Zoey!
            >
            > I think I read this dialogue with Cher over on A.R.E., but I don't
            > recall how she extricated herself from "the" test! Or if she was
            > even clued in that it was a test that she failed miserably. The one
            > thing I notice with Cheryl, and the other eckists like her, is that
            > she seldom if ever apologizes for being wrong, nasty, insensitive,
            > etc. The best one can expect is a slight acknowledgment with one of
            > her "<grin>"s! Or she sinks back down into the hole she crawls out
            > of and remains hidden until she thinks it has all gone away. One
            > doesn't know what she is doing behind the scenes as far as getting
            > her "friends" stirred up enough to do her battling. Basically,
            > though, Cheryl "knows everything!" I mean "everything!" Mention a
            > topic and she has the answer or best opinion. She is so well
            > schooled and her mental processes are working with such clarity that
            > she above all others is above reproach--NOT! Cheryl is a real "big-
            > headed" joke, and she's a major reason for people to be turned off
            > from eckankar. Her vahana work as exemplified by her higher
            > initiation behavior and comments does serve the purpose of
            > discouraging others from wanting to get on the eckankar bandwagon. I
            > also suspect that she has driven some eckists to leave the
            > teachings, because she is definitely good proof that eckankar is (to
            > use one of your terms) pure hogwash! Spiritual seekers do not need
            > to follow a master or listen to the dribblings of such delusional
            > chelas like Cheryl! However, personally, I enjoy watching the
            > destructive workings of Cheryl--she does a great job of detracting!
            > She's sort of like a team member for us here on ESA! We point out
            > the flaws in the teachings and she demonstrates them for us! LOL!
            >
            > Mish
            >
          • Elizabeth
            Non ekster wrote: Grundee and Company are indeed Kal agents and this has been proven over and over in real time. They are simply slopping
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 2, 2006
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              "Non ekster" <eckchains@...> wrote:

              Grundee and Company are indeed Kal agents and this has been proven
              over and over in real time. They are simply slopping around in their
              own eck poo like the ECK MONKEYS they are! <smile>

              --------------------------------

              LOL I just couldn't resist reposting the following Monkey
              messages! ;-) Least we forget, I believe it should be pointed out
              how smart Cheryl from Hu-chat really isn't!

              Enjoy,
              Elizabeth

              ---------------------------------

              Those Monkeys are everywhere! ;-)

              "selling" HU ??

              On 6/21/06, Jeanne (removed) wrote:

              Remember the story of the 100 monkeys? A monkey on one
              island learned that he should wash his food before
              eating it. Not only did all the monkeys on his island
              start washing their food, but all the monkeys on the
              surrounding islands did so as well.

              When we raise our own state of consciousness by
              singing HU, we bring everyone else along with us!
              Cool stuff, huh?
              In ECK,
              Jeanne

              On 6/21/06, Cher wrote:

              Essentially this has been disproven, and it's now an urban legend
              spread mostly in new age circles. It's a nice story, too bad it isn't
              true. <smile>


              (ME) Too bad Cher didn't point out this Urban Legend was also used
              by Harold Klemp!



              Repost from ESA
              Mish wrote:

              It really is amazing how even stories like "The Hundredth Monkey"
              and "The Starfish" were stolen
              by Klemp. I guess he figured that no one would really bother to
              discover this, or, even worse, care! The indifference to truth in
              order to "believe" a lie is incredible! Obviously, in some belief
              systems, truth is not important--the fantasy of feeling more
              spiritually advanced than most people feeds the delusions of the
              mind.

              Another repost from ESA
              Prometheus wrote:

              This points out the flaws
              in Klemp's (the Mahanta's) authenticity as even a true "Spiritual
              Leader" let alone the other outlandish claims!

              I read the "Handbook to Higher Consciousness" by Ken Keyes Jr. back
              in the 1970's when his Living Love Church was first located in (I
              think) St. Mary's, Kentucky. Keyes also wrote a book titled, "The
              Hundredth Monkey."

              I remember being at the Eck seminar talk where HK first told "The
              Hundredth Monkey" story. Therefore, this story should also be in one
              of the Mahanta Transcripts! This just goes to show how Klemp
              recycles the stories he "borrows" from others in order to "write"
              another book since Kaye mentions it is also in Parables 3.
              THE HUNDREDTH MONKEY story is to point out how the
              Mahanta has helped consciousness to expand and grow for Eckists and
              for Eckists to read between the lines as to how this "expansion" has
              affected and helped world consciousness to be raised. Actually,
              Klemp never directly points out how the expansion of consciousness
              for Eckists benefits anyone except paying members of Eckankar!



              And another repost from ESA
              Kaye wrote:

              Hi All,

              I wanted to point out that Harold Klemp used *The Hundredth Monkey
              story* in "The Book of ECK Parables, Volume 3".

              And provide The Hundredth Monkey article which appears on page 227
              by the original
              author that reads as follows:

              The Hundredth Monkey by Ken Keyes, jr.
              The Japanese monkey, Macaca fuscata, had been observed in the wild
              for a period of over 30 years.

              In 1952, on the island of Koshima, scientists were providing monkeys
              with sweet potatoes dropped in the sand. The monkeys liked the taste
              of the raw sweet potatoes, but they found the dirt unpleasant.

              An 18-month-old female named Imo found she could solve the problem
              by washing the potatoes in a nearby stream. She taught this trick to
              her mother. Her playmates also learned this new way and they taught
              their mothers too.

              This cultural innovation was gradually picked up by various monkeys
              before the eyes of the scientists.

              Between 1952 and 1958 all the young monkeys learned to wash the
              sandy sweet potatoes to make them more palatable.

              Only the adults who imitated their children learned this social
              improvement. Other adults kept eating the dirty sweet potatoes.

              Then something startling took place. In the autumn of 1958, a
              certain number of Koshima monkeys were washing sweet potatoes -- the
              exact number is not known.

              Let us suppose that when the sun rose one morning there were 99
              monkeys on Koshima Island who had learned to wash their sweet
              potatoes.

              Let's further suppose that later that morning, the hundredth monkey
              learned to wash potatoes.

              THEN IT HAPPENED!

              By that evening almost everyone in the tribe was washing sweet
              potatoes before eating them.

              The added energy of this hundredth monkey somehow created an
              ideological breakthrough!

              But notice.

              A most surprising thing observed by these scientists was that the
              habit of washing sweet potatoes then jumped over the sea --

              Colonies of monkeys on other islands and the mainland troop of
              monkeys at Takasakiyama began washing their sweet potatoes.

              Thus, when a certain critical number achieves an awareness, this new
              awareness may be communicated from mind to mind.

              Although the exact number may vary, this Hundredth Monkey Phenomenon
              means that when only a limited number of people know of a new way,
              it may remain the conscious property of these people.

              But there is a point at which if only one more person tunes-in to a
              new awareness, a field is strengthened so that this awareness is
              picked up by almost everyone!

              (from the book "The Hundredth Monkey" by Ken Keyes, jr. The book is
              not copyrighted and the material may be reproduced in whole or in
              part. You can look at the whole book also.)


              *********************************************************************
              Kaye wrote:
              I did not provide HK's dry, lifeless version, if anyone wants to
              read it please let me know.

              The author gave permission to share this story, so why did HK not
              print the story in its' original form and why didn't he give
              proper credit to the author, Ken Keyes, Jr.?

              It seems to me that some Spiritual writers/teachers are willing to
              share their knowledge with others free of charge, while others cash-
              in every chance they get!

              After HK retells Keyes' story, he goes on to say that when
              the "hundredth monkey" in the E teachings is reached then the E
              teachings will reach the rest of the world. The jump in
              consciousness will occur because of the dynamic law of ECK. (ICK!):/

              ********************************************************************

              To conclude Cher also wrote:

              http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC09/Myers.htm The Hundredth Monkey
              Revisited
              Going back to the original sources puts a new light on this popular
              story
              by Elaine Myers


              On 6/21/06, Cheryl grunde wrote:
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_Monkey

              "In 1985, Elaine Myers re-examined the original published research in
              "The Hundredth Monkey Revisited" in the journal In Context. In her
              review she found that the original research reports by the Japan
              Monkey Center in vol. 2, 5 and 6 of the journal Primates differ from
              Watson's story in significant ways. In short, it contains no evidence
              that the 'Hundredth Monkey' phenomenon exists; the published articles
              only describe how the sweet potato washing behavior gradually spread
              through the monkey troop and became part of the set of learned
              behaviors of young monkeys. There is no evidence at all of a critical
              number at which the idea suddenly spread to other islands, and none
              of
              the original researchers ever made such a claim."

              ################################

              The Hundredth Monkey story and Cheryl's comments

              Hi All,
              Yes, this is funny how Cheryl ("Cher" of HU-Chat and A.R.E. fame) is
              disproving and contradicting her very own LEM/Mahanta! One wonders
              why she believes all the other HK crap, unless, she is just using
              Eckankar as a temporary security blanket. Funny, how some people
              (Eckists included) are their own worst enemy! Cher is an Eck
              detractor and doesn't see it or realize it! On the other hand, maybe
              she's finally beginning to question things and see the real Truth?!
              It could be that her anger, that she directs outwardly, is due to
              her frustrations with the contradictions and nonsense she sees in
              the Eck teachings. <smile>

              Prometheus
              --------------------------------------

              It really is a marvel that Cheryl has provened this popular "eck"
              story to be an urban legend! I wonder at what level of awareness she
              was operating from? LOL! I had heard the Hundredth Monkey referenced
              many times by eckists--it truly is a favorite one! But now those who
              have the ears to hear and eyes to see will know that it is a bogus
              story just like eckankar, the mahanta, the eck masters, the
              initiations, and all of it are bogus. Just one more proof of it all
              being a scam!

              Mish

              ##########

              And More Monkey Talk ;-)


              *Ancient Atlantis Monkey People*

              So sad, and yet so unbelievable! Did this come from one of HK's
              own Dreams, or from some Sci Fi movie or story? What kind of person
              could come up with such twisted stuff like this?

              ######

              http://vclass.mtsac.edu:940/dlane/ecknew.htm


              "Letters still cross my desk from people who juggle the meaning of
              Paul's January 1971 Illuminated Way Letter. He said that the next
              Mahanta would be along in about fifteen years, and that he might
              appoint an ECK Master to serve in the interim until the appointment
              of the next Mahanta. They count their fingers like monkeys in a zoo,
              scratch their heads, and lay their lack of success with the
              spiritual exercises to an outer cause."

              Analysis: ECK Monkeys. I wonder which initiation that is?


              Perhaps Harold is referring to this uplifting (not) story from one
              of his first discourses:



              "In ancient Atlantis, the people were working with the manipulation
              of the black arts, which left the entire civilization with a taint
              of cruelty upon it such as has seldom been seen, even in modern
              times. Captives of war were taken into slavery, but their captors
              shortened their spines through surgery, removing the spine from
              between the shoulder blades to the coccyx. This produced grotesque
              dwarfs who were made house servants, and their appearance always
              marked them as subservient to the citizens. The captive was put into
              occupational therapy the day after the operation, made to swim in a
              pool in order to strengthen the new muscles and to accustom him to
              the short brace, fabricated to the outside of the spine to
              strengthen his back. The slaves, thereafter, took on the appearance
              of monkeys." - The ECK Satsang Discourses, Third Series, Harold
              Klemp, Page 40.


              ###############################################

              It Matters to This Starfish - HK' s Plagiarism


              Thanks for pointing out that the Mahanta (Klemp) has Nothing
              Original to share, especially, in regard to inspiring Eckists with
              his own words of wisdom. When an author Does Not give credit for his
              sources this is theft (plagiarism) and unethical!

              I'm surprised that Frank (on HU-Chat) pointed out who the original
              author was of Klemp's "STARFISH" story! However, Frank Should Not
              dig too deeply for the Truth, unless, he is ready to ponder It
              further and is willing to connect the dots. I wonder if he and
              Harald have read "Confessions of a God Seeker?" I doubt if these
              deluded Eckists could handle a nice slow read and a pondering (or
              contemplation) of facts and truth!

              Eckists have too much to lose if the rug of illusion is jerked out
              from under them. What would they replace Eckankar with? Total
              Freedom from man-made religions and other distractions is Not for
              everyone at any given moment! And, that is why there are delusional
              paths (Eckankar, etc.) of all sorts for most people.

              Eckists aren't special except in their own minds, and the
              outer/inner initiations aren't real except for the ego! Let's face
              it - Eckankar is just another "feel good" religion where Klemp takes
              credit for the "feel good!" Any "feel bad" just means that Eckists
              haven't deluded themselves enough and that's their fault! LOL!

              BTW- I just had two Jehovah Witnesses come to the door. I asked if
              they were Mormons! LOL! See, these people are as bad as Eckists.
              They are arrogant while trying to appear humble. They think that
              their religion and beliefs are the highest, the best, and the one
              true path to God (Realization). They are like Eckists, especially,
              since Klemp has made Eckankar more Christian (Luthern) than
              Sikh/Hindu. Actually, Eckankar is a sect of Kirpal Singh's sect of
              Sikhism, except, Twitchell created the multi-initiation (caste)
              system which made Eckankar more like Hinduism. Klemp kept the multi-
              level initiation caste system pyramid and then made Eckankar more
              Christian like with hymns like "Amazing HU (Grace)," the Eck Worship
              Services, a Missionary Program, and Clerics, etc.

              So, Eckankar's Higher Initiations are a joke! I find it even more
              amusing that former H.I.'s think that those 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and
              9th initiations (even Darwin's 14th) indicated a higher
              consciousness! LOL!

              The ego really needs to feel "superior normal" and, therefore,
              blinds itself from the truth. And, this is why Klemp's ego has to
              bolster itself through someone else's words, by "writing" dozens of
              books, and by being listed in Who's Who! It's a Joke - Eckists just
              don't get it! <smile>
              From "The Book of Parables, Volume 3", 1991, Page
              277.

              I've reposted the original story and then HK's plagiarized story.

              ####################################################################

              The Starfish by Loren Eisley

              There was a young man walking down a deserted beach just before
              dawn. In the distance he saw a frail old man. As he approached the
              old man, he saw him picking up stranded starfish and throwing them
              back into the sea. The young man gazed in wonder as the old man
              again and again threw the small starfish from the sand to the water.
              He asked, "Old man, why do you spend so much energy doing whseems
              to be a waste of time?"

              The old man explained that the stranded starfish would die if left
              in the morning sun.

              "But there must be thousands of beaches and millions of starfish!",
              exclaimed the young man. "How can you make any difference?"

              The old man looked down at the small starfish in his hand and as he
              threw it to the safety of the sea, he said, "I made a difference to
              this one."

              ####################################################################
              $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

              [HK's version]: It Matters to This Starfish

              An old man was walking down by the sea, and he saw a young boy
              throwing things back into the water. He got closer and saw they were
              starfish. "what are you doing?", he asked the boy.

              The boy said, "these starfish are going to die if they don't get
              back into the water."

              The old man looked up and down the beach and
              saw thousands and thousands of starfish. "but what does it matter?"
              he asked the boy.

              The boy looked at the starfish in his hand and said, "It matters
              to this one."
            • Elizabeth
              Hello Zoey! After reading this post, I now know who you are, as I recall you sharing this same story under a different name! ;-) I appologise for calling you
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 2, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Zoey!

                After reading this post, I now know who you are, as I recall you
                sharing this same story under a different name! ;-) I appologise
                for calling you a troll when you first joined this group. I hope
                you will continue to share your "pre and post" Eckankrap experiences
                with us!

                Elizabeth

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "zoey_true"
                <zoey_true@...> wrote:

                Couple of years back a friend and I confirmed, for anyone with sense
                to see, what cher is all about. I set myself up as a detractor,
                while my friend set himself up as pro-eck. My friend would post
                passages which he credited to klemp or twitchell. Mostly these
                passages were hogwash. Although the passages sounded quite
                esoteric, they were totally senseless manure. Cher would praise
                them, agree with them, condone them, etc etc etc simply because he
                put the eck brand on the mess. Sometimes he posted passages that
                utterly contradicted eckankar perceptions, and again, they sounded
                quite mystical. As long as the stuff was attributed to eck
                literature, chernobyl was dancing on her fat little feet in
                agreement.

                I, on the other hand, posted passages straight from klemp and
                twitchell. I often quoted the shariyat. Because I was a known
                detractor, chernut tore sh** out of it all. It's not that I would
                expect even the most aredent eckist to memorize the entire eck
                library, but the passages I posted encapsulated key concepts. But I
                attributed them to Ford, or Lane, or whoever; so the enlightened
                eckists pissed on their own scripture.
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