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Re: HU-Chat Members Should Treat "Cher" Better

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Mish and All, It does make me wonder about the Group Consciousness of HU-Chat and of Eckankar in general. Wouldn t the Group Consciousness of both have
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 18, 2006
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      Hi Mish and All,
      It does make me wonder about the Group Consciousness of HU-Chat and
      of Eckankar in general. Wouldn't the Group Consciousness of both
      have something to do with an Average of Initiation Levels (numbers).
      So, if there are X number of members how many of these are in each
      Circle of Initiation?

      BTW - what ever happened to Consciousness Five or Seven? Also, when
      everything (including the Shariyats) is in the Lower Worlds of KAL
      even the positive is KAListic. This is just part of the Eck Stream
      that is split, and still Does Not represent the middle path of the
      Soul Level (5th Plane)! Therefore, the positive quotes cited by one
      HU-Chat member from Klemp, or supposedly from other Eck Masters, are
      Kalistic too! Therefore Good and Bad behaviour are both KAListic
      according to Eckankar (Eck/ahankar)!

      However, isn't Eckankar an individual path? Aren't Eckists supposed
      to create their own reality? Why then does one need to be dragged
      down by a limiting Group Consciousness? Those of a lower KAL
      consciousness will pull the others down to their level... right?!
      Most "True" Eckists know that their Initiations are higher than or
      are more valid than those of certain other (loser) Eckists... it's
      obvious! <smile> Some Eckists sit at the right hand of the Mahanta
      and some sit at the left... most others are standing outside in the
      hallway! LOL!

      Anyway, let me comment some (***) to what Mish has posted.

      Prometheus


      Mishmisha wrote:

      Hi, All!

      Interesting perspective on how Hu-Chat members should treat "Cher"
      better. But I wonder just how this "better" should be played? I'll
      insert some comments into Prometheus' post:

      PROMETHEUS WROTE:

      Hi All,
      "IT'S refreshing to see an Eckist like Cheryl speak their mind. Why
      hold back for the sake of being politically correct? This is one
      thing that I, and others, always had to conform to and be cautious
      of while under our long-term RESA. We were somewhat fearful of
      losing our positions in the local hierarchy (especially Director and
      Board positions), but we were more fearful of Not getting that next
      Initiation!"

      ### MISH: The thing is Cher is one of the moderators on Hu-Chat so
      she is in a position of power, to allow or not allow a poster's
      post, she can "moderate" or "unmoderate" a member at her will, she
      can boot and/or ban members--so, yeah, she "can speak her mind"
      while at the same time be controlling others. So, really, she can
      instill fear much like a "controlling" RESA can! : )

      (***) Well, if Cheryl wants to control other Eckists on her site
      then who is to say otherwise... Not Klemp and Company!

      ********************************************************************
      "BEING diplomatic is a real art but that takes patience,
      time, more finesse, and a Soul equals Soul approach. One can't
      really say to be just more Loving when a more straight forward
      approach is needed... right?!"

      ### MISH: With Grumpyman at the command on Hu-Chat, one will quickly
      learn she doesn't believe in the "Soul equals Soul" concept and one
      will have to be careful around her ladyship. Interesting, she
      mentioned the S.O.P. (standard operating procedures--"rules"--for
      posting on Hu-Chat)that she helped develop. It seems that eckists
      need a lot of training in order to post "properly" on Hu-Chat. The
      list of procedures is soooooooooooo long. I took a look at my yahoo
      groups and couldn't find any S.O.P.'s listed??? Of course, in the
      site description I notice here that Prometheus does explain/caution
      that this site is an anti-eckankar site, but it is open to the
      public to read and/or submit posts. It is not a private, secretive
      site.

      (***) I have to admit that Eckankar does have a lot of rules and
      procedures, but that (in part) is to protect the copyrights and to
      show consistency by getting the same message out and being on the
      same page. The other Guidelines for proper behaviour is because
      Klemp was too permissive for twenty years and turned a blind eye to
      the various unbalanced nut cases. Unfortunately (or not) it was too
      little too late, and without follow-thru. That's why HU-Chat is an
      Official "Unofficial" Eck Site instead of an "Official" Eck Site.

      *********************************************************************
      "HOWEVER, let's face it the "tough-love" or "mock-up" anger
      disclaimers are simply convenient side-steps for Not taking
      responsibility for one's spiritual life. The Golden Rule technique
      could work except some people have such a poor self-image that they
      expect to be treated crappy and, therefore, will treat others
      crappy. It's a real conundrum!"

      ### MISH: I think the long S.O.P. for Hu-Chat or any other such
      group really enforces the need to "walk on egg shells." Really sad
      since this is a group of eckists who should trust and love one
      another, rather, than have to fear what one might post on their chat
      site. Really weird to have to jump through all those hoops . . . and
      to fear the possible repercussions coming from the powerful
      moderators like Cher. But it is a nice power trip for someone like
      Cher! It must make her day to tell people off and be able to also
      control if they will be allowed to stay on a group site. Is Cher
      a "RESA" in the making?? Watch out for her, folks! : )

      (***) Well, having Power over others does demonstrate ego and
      attachment. As Above So Below?

      ********************************************************************
      "BUT, if it was easy then we wouldn't be here. I do find it
      interesting that Eckists will imagine that they are so different
      from others when their words and behaviours say otherwise. Whether
      good or bad Eckists are the same as others, especially, those masses
      who need prophets and saviours."

      ### MISH: I do agree that the general behaviors of most eckists are
      no different from the masses. However, they would disagree with this
      for the most part since they do believe that their "path" is only
      for those advanced souls who are ready! And I need to ask, if these
      eckists are truly such advanced souls, above all others, why is
      there the need for the complex and very detailed S.O.P. on Hu-Chat?
      Obviously, these particular eckists are fine with being so
      controlled, and of course, this explains why "HU-Chat Members Should
      Treat 'Cher' Better"--they have agreed to being bossed around by her
      and the other moderators! Why do they fear and distrust each other,
      though? If these eckists are all truly linked to the mahanta, they
      wouldn't need the S.O.P. (guidelines)! LOL!

      (***) This is a good point! IF there was an inner connection to
      their Mahanta why would these Eckists display the same behaviours as
      non-Eckists? It would seem that the difference between an Eckist and
      a non-Eckist is that an Eckist has a membership card with an
      initiation number on it along with the structured imaginings built
      around an Inner Master. The outer living Master is really the same
      as a living Pope or living preacher, rabbi, etc.

      ********************************************************************
      MISH: But basically, I do agree that it is refreshing to see an
      eckist like Cher not holding back and speaking her mind--the only
      problem, though, as I see it, in speaking her own mind, she doesn't
      allow others the same freedom. She will threaten by informing them
      she is a moderator of the group, that she was instrumental in
      creating the S.O.P. and she will also "file" away for future
      reminder what one member might have posted or said on the group.
      Really, she is like a controlling RESA, except for her lack of high
      initiation and selection! Good for Cher and only Cher! : )

      (***) It's true that CHERYL G. is not allowing other Eckists on HU-
      Chat to have a freedom of expression that differs from hers, but it
      is her site! ECKists should be used to this by now. There's a
      hierarchy in place and the Law of Silence! The ESC has a hierarchy
      and the RESA org is a hierarchy so why shouldn't HU-Chat have a
      hierarchy too? However, should Higher Initiates be subject to rules
      created by a Lower Initiate? This seems bass ackwards!

      Hmmmmmm, maybe this isn't a bad idea afterall. Maybe Eckankar should
      have an inverted pyramid regarding it's hierarchy and have the
      LEM/Mahanta on the bottom! That would be the ultimate in humility!
      If HK did this then he wouldn't have to state "IMHO" on his
      responses to questions!

      Prometheus






      Re: HU-Chat ECK Hypocrites on an Official "Unofficial" ECK Site

      Tyger Purr wrote:

      As far as I'm concerned, these Mean and Nasty eckankultists are just
      like the evangelical christians who recently lost their hypocritical
      "spiritual" leader, Haggard of the New Life Church. lol At least
      Haggard did admit to his flock that he was a liar and a deceiver,
      something Klemp is unlikely to do. Perhaps these delusional eckist
      are in their heart of hearts just fearful of the awful truth, that
      all of eckankar is in reality just a SCAM, as simple as that.

      ; )

      Prometheus wrote:

      Hi All,
      The Mean and Nasty, Unloving and Unbalanced, and Fearful ECK Vahanas
      on HU-Chat are self-Righteous, Holier than Thou, Hypocrites! I find
      it interesting that the RESAs of these Eckists, or the ESC, and even
      Klemp have Not stepped in to rectify the situation. Then again,
      Klemp makes a lot of promises, but is never put to the test!

      If Eckankar wants people to believe all that it claims then why
      would it permit this negative behaviour (by Initiated current
      members) on the Internet?! Klemp could instruct the ESC and his
      RESAs to tell these Eckists to shape up or be silent and discipline
      the site moderators. As punishment (Karma), and for the sake of
      restoring balance, these negative Kal-Eckists could lose positions,
      initiations, and be held back from getting future initiations!

      Also, why was a HU-Chat site member given his Fourth Initiation when
      he's a known minister in another Church (Universal Life)? This is
      more proof that theECK Initiations are phoney and invalid! No real
      LEM/Mahanta wouldhave permitted this! Where was the RESA! It's the
      blind leading theblind!

      Or, maybe Klemp is just turning a blind eye to all of this negative
      behaviour because of two factors. Klemp actually condones the
      negative Internet behaviour, and/or he's clueless as to what's
      happening with Eckists! Both reasons are why the Kal-Eckists are
      still getting pink slips and are promoted to higher "settler"
      positions. (1) For the LEM/Mahanta to Knowingly Condone this
      Negative INTERNET Behaviour means that Klemp is of the KAL! (2) For
      the LEM/Mahanta to Not Be Aware of this Negative INTERNET Behaviour
      means that Klemp has No Insight or Spiritual Powers. Both are more
      than likely true. Either way it shows that Klemp is a Fraud and a
      False Prophet of the Kal!
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