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Re: DG and HK had SECRET MEETINGS Without SOUND & LIGHT

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Mish, You make some great points and I remember that farm story! ... Klemp republishes many of his writings under new titles--anyone notice that? Yes, and
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 18, 2005
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      Hi Mish,

      You make some great points and I remember that farm story!

      >>"mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
      Klemp republishes many of his writings under new titles--anyone
      notice that?

      Yes, and I'm thinking that another reason for "writing" all of these
      books is due to his vanity (actually Klemp just uses initiate
      reports, and embellished stories mailed to the ESC for much of his
      material). Early on Klemp just wanted to get into "Who's Who" like
      Twitchell, and "writing" all of these books accomplished this!
      Eckists should feel just as proud as Klemp does that their savior is
      so clever!

      >> One story he tells in both of his autobio-books is the one where
      he was a very young boy and an adult made a joke with other men at
      little "Harold's" expense. It embarrassed Harold greatly, and it
      seems to this day, he has not gotten over it. He seems to hold a lot
      of anger about it. I wonder why he can't reflect on it with
      adult "eyes?" Why does he continue to see it negatively instead of
      as a positive learning experience. The man just made a funny joke to
      create laughter and fun with the group of farmers who were working
      together that one day. It was a social thing, and I'm sure the man
      did not realize that sensitive little Harold was so offended--and
      still is to this day! This anger is definitely a flaw that has been
      long standing with Harold, and it explains why as L.E.M. he can so
      easily dish it out but can't take it. He demonstrates this angry
      behavior in some of his talks and writings (other stories)--and it
      also explains why he comes down hard on some of his "miscreant"
      followers. It trickles down through the organization, as well, as
      H.I. leaders emulate his behavior and mistreat other Eckists: the
      silent treatment, shunning, taking away initiations and positions
      and so forth.

      Yes, this is where little HK was helping in the fields and driving
      the tractor. The men took a break and would have a couple of beers.
      There would be a lot of small talk and joking around while
      introverted, silent, and meek little Harold just watched and
      listened, but never participated in the conversations. Anyway, one
      of the men had to answer the call of nature and when he returned he
      discovered that someone had drunk his beer (this was done with
      Harold's knowledge so he knew about the joke). When the farmer
      protested to the rest of his peers that someone drank his beer one
      man pointed Harold out as the culprit! Everyone laughed and were
      having fun with the joke, but Harold didn't and he ran off and hid.
      The man who had jokingly blamed Harold sought him out and tried to
      console him, but to no avail. The really sad thing about this whole
      story is that Harold use to look up to this man prior to this
      incident, but now Harold states that he never did like this person
      after that and would avoid the man. Harold even mentions in the book
      that the man was hurt by this shunning. Another thing that seems to
      escape Harold, even today, is that this incident was not only a test
      for him, but that it was also a Right of Passage of which Harold
      obviously failed. This is just one more example of what has helped
      to lead Harold's to his own present day schizophrenic behavior. Just
      look at how the loving Mahanta attacked that Temporary Postal Clerk!

      Prometheus
    • ctecvie
      Hello Mish and Prometheus! ... are ... under ... Oh yes - he keeps recycling and recycling things - and sometimes he takes whole discourses and publishes them!
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 18, 2005
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        Hello Mish and Prometheus!

        > Good post revealing this bit of the Gross/Klemp story! It is
        > mentioned in both of Klemp's autobiographical books. Both books
        are
        > basically the same, but Klemp republishes many of his writings
        under
        > new titles--anyone notice that?
        Oh yes - he keeps recycling and recycling things - and sometimes he
        takes whole discourses and publishes them! I remember having noticed
        that with a youth discourse series - it did make me wonder but that
        was all at the time! :-) "The "modern prophet" is a recycling as
        well ...

        > I did because I read all of his
        > transcripts and some other books in a year's time. Much was
        > extremely redundant! Why, did he do this? Well, it keeps people
        > buying new books--keeps the money rolling in. I think it is an
        > indicator of how easily brainwashed and misled people can be in
        such
        > situations. I wonder if Harold even chuckles to himself at how
        > gullible people are when they keep spending time and money on his
        > recycled books??

        It took me a bit longer to notice ... but finally I did through the
        years. :-) Oh, I think Harold doesn't even notice the gullibility -
        in a sense, it's sad because that way, he misses a good laugh from
        time to time! ;-))
        >
        > One story he tells in both of his autobio-books is the one where
        he
        > was a very young boy and an adult made a joke with other men at
        > little "Harold's" expense. It embarrassed Harold greatly, and it
        > seems to this day, he has not gotten over it. He seems to hold a
        lot
        > of anger about it. I wonder why he can't reflect on it with
        > adult "eyes?" Why does he continue to see it negatively instead of
        > as a positive learning experience. The man just made a funny joke
        to
        > create laughter and fun with the group of farmers who were working
        > together that one day. It was a social thing, and I'm sure the man
        > did not realize that sensitive little Harold was so offended--and
        > still is to this day!

        A good psychotherapeutic session would have had him rid of that -
        but apparently he needs that because, were it otherwise, how could
        he tell those stories? He needs something to tell - and perhaps
        that's why anything related to psychology / psychotherapy is
        regarded as much "lesser" than Eckankar ...
        >
        > This anger is definitely a flaw that has been long standing with
        > Harold, and it explains why as L.E.M. he can so easily dish it out
        > but can't take it. He demonstrates this angry behavior in some of
        > his talks and writings (other stories)--and it also explains why
        he
        > comes down hard on some of his "miscreant" followers. It trickles
        > down through the organization, as well, as H.I. leaders emulate
        his
        > behavior and mistreat other Eckists: the silent treatment,
        shunning,
        > taking away initiations and positions and so forth.

        There's a saying in my language that goes like that: as the master,
        so the follower - it's easy to see in Eckankar! :-)
        >
        > Well, what an experience Eckankar has been! : )

        It definitely has been - and good that it "has been"! :-)

        Ingrid
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Ingrid, Yes, it s too bad, in one sense, that HK isn t aware of his followers gullibility or lack of critical thinking... he would be having some good
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 18, 2005
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          Hi Ingrid,

          Yes, it's too bad, in one sense, that HK isn't aware of his
          followers gullibility or lack of critical thinking... he would be
          having some good laughs! But, it's even sadder that HK isn't aware
          of his own delusions, gullibility, and lack if consciousness.
          Actually, maybe it's not so sad. If HK was more aware he might be
          more clever (a better con-man) in hiding these facts than he has
          been. Of course the Eckist ego, through the use of the "As If"
          effect, also tends to hide the Truth from Soul via delusion as well.

          Prometheus


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
          <ctecvie@y...> wrote:
          > Hello Mish and Prometheus!
          >
          > > Good post revealing this bit of the Gross/Klemp story! It is
          > > mentioned in both of Klemp's autobiographical books. Both books
          > are
          > > basically the same, but Klemp republishes many of his writings
          > under
          > > new titles--anyone notice that?
          > Oh yes - he keeps recycling and recycling things - and sometimes
          he
          > takes whole discourses and publishes them! I remember having
          noticed
          > that with a youth discourse series - it did make me wonder but
          that
          > was all at the time! :-) "The "modern prophet" is a recycling as
          > well ...
          >
          > > I did because I read all of his
          > > transcripts and some other books in a year's time. Much was
          > > extremely redundant! Why, did he do this? Well, it keeps people
          > > buying new books--keeps the money rolling in. I think it is an
          > > indicator of how easily brainwashed and misled people can be in
          > such
          > > situations. I wonder if Harold even chuckles to himself at how
          > > gullible people are when they keep spending time and money on
          his
          > > recycled books??
          >
          > It took me a bit longer to notice ... but finally I did through
          the
          > years. :-) Oh, I think Harold doesn't even notice the gullibility -

          > in a sense, it's sad because that way, he misses a good laugh from
          > time to time! ;-))
          > >
          > > One story he tells in both of his autobio-books is the one where
          > he
          > > was a very young boy and an adult made a joke with other men at
          > > little "Harold's" expense. It embarrassed Harold greatly, and it
          > > seems to this day, he has not gotten over it. He seems to hold a
          > lot
          > > of anger about it. I wonder why he can't reflect on it with
          > > adult "eyes?" Why does he continue to see it negatively instead
          of
          > > as a positive learning experience. The man just made a funny
          joke
          > to
          > > create laughter and fun with the group of farmers who were
          working
          > > together that one day. It was a social thing, and I'm sure the
          man
          > > did not realize that sensitive little Harold was so offended--
          and
          > > still is to this day!
          >
          > A good psychotherapeutic session would have had him rid of that -
          > but apparently he needs that because, were it otherwise, how could
          > he tell those stories? He needs something to tell - and perhaps
          > that's why anything related to psychology / psychotherapy is
          > regarded as much "lesser" than Eckankar ...
          > >
          > > This anger is definitely a flaw that has been long standing with
          > > Harold, and it explains why as L.E.M. he can so easily dish it
          out
          > > but can't take it. He demonstrates this angry behavior in some
          of
          > > his talks and writings (other stories)--and it also explains why
          > he
          > > comes down hard on some of his "miscreant" followers. It
          trickles
          > > down through the organization, as well, as H.I. leaders emulate
          > his
          > > behavior and mistreat other Eckists: the silent treatment,
          > shunning,
          > > taking away initiations and positions and so forth.
          >
          > There's a saying in my language that goes like that: as the
          master,
          > so the follower - it's easy to see in Eckankar! :-)
          > >
          > > Well, what an experience Eckankar has been! : )
          >
          > It definitely has been - and good that it "has been"! :-)
          >
          > Ingrid
        • Greg and Liz
          ... buying new books--keeps the money rolling in. I think it is an indicator of how easily brainwashed and misled people can be in such situations. *** I
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 19, 2005
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            mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:

            > Both books are basically the same, but Klemp republishes many of his writings under new titles--anyone notice that? 

            >snip<

            > Why, did he do this? Well, it keeps people
            buying new books--keeps the money rolling in. I think it is an
            indicator of how easily brainwashed and misled people can be in such situations.

            ***  I would have to say that Harold is not very good at authoring books!  He may have been an editor, but a writer he wasn't!  I also have to believe (and heard from mom who worked at esc for years) that the editors (who were establishes writes *some of them*) at esc recognized this in him and was able to work around his lack of skills by publishing his talks, and republishing his same ol shit, different title.....  don't forget he also created most of his stories from Initiate reports or stuff others wrote in about, in the hopes it would get published in the cult mystic news.   

            I never did see much spiritual "meat" to digest in his talks or books....  mostly slept through his seminar talks!  Mom used to say it was okay, since soul could still hear every word the mahanta spewed!   LOL

          • mishmisha9
            Well, what did we ever see in Harold then? Not good at writing and/or giving great talks? He certainly does not have charisma or looks either! LOL! It seems to
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 19, 2005
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              Well, what did we ever see in Harold then? Not good at writing
              and/or giving great talks? He certainly does not have charisma or
              looks either! LOL! It seems to be a mystery!


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Greg and Liz
              <whitefeatherliz@y...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
              > > Both books are basically the same, but Klemp republishes many of
              his writings under new titles--anyone notice that?
              >
              > >snip<
              >
              > > Why, did he do this? Well, it keeps people
              > buying new books--keeps the money rolling in. I think it is an
              > indicator of how easily brainwashed and misled people can be in
              such situations.
              >
              > *** I would have to say that Harold is not very good at authoring
              books! He may have been an editor, but a writer he wasn't! I also
              have to believe (and heard from mom who worked at esc for years)
              that the editors (who were establishes writes *some of them*) at esc
              recognized this in him and was able to work around his lack of
              skills by publishing his talks, and republishing his same ol shit,
              different title..... don't forget he also created most of his
              stories from Initiate reports or stuff others wrote in about, in the
              hopes it would get published in the cult mystic news.
              >
              > I never did see much spiritual "meat" to digest in his talks or
              books.... mostly slept through his seminar talks! Mom used to say
              it was okay, since soul could still hear every word the mahanta
              spewed! LOL
            • Greg and Liz
              ... *** I can only speak for myself; being raised in the cult from a young age, we were told that we are to follow who ever holds the rod of eck power at the
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 20, 2005
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                mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:

                >Well, what did we ever see in Harold then? Not good at writing and/or giving great talks? He certainly does not have charisma or looks either! LOL! It seems to be a mystery!

                *** I can only speak for myself;  being raised in the cult from a young age, we were told that we are to follow who ever holds the rod of eck power at the time.  Not to question why!  You know the hitch....  

              • mishmisha9
                Yeah, you were young and innocent! LOL! I don t have an excuse--I guess mine was a mental slip of some sort regarding right discrimination. Mish ... and/or
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 20, 2005
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                  Yeah, you were young and innocent! LOL! I don't have an excuse--I
                  guess mine was a mental slip of some sort regarding right
                  discrimination.

                  Mish

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Greg and Liz
                  <whitefeatherliz@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
                  > >Well, what did we ever see in Harold then? Not good at writing
                  and/or giving great talks? He certainly does not have charisma or
                  looks either! LOL! It seems to be a mystery!
                  >
                  >
                  > *** I can only speak for myself; being raised in the cult from a
                  young age, we were told that we are to follow who ever holds the rod
                  of eck power at the time. Not to question why! You know the hitch....
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