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Paul Made Up The Whole Eckankar Thing?

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  • makiztor
    Do we know that Paul made up the WHOLE Eckankar thing? The first account of Gail s repudiation of Eckankar comes from one of her acquaintences, who heard a
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 4, 2006
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      Do we know that Paul made up the "WHOLE" Eckankar thing?

      The first account of Gail's repudiation of Eckankar comes from one
      of her acquaintences, who heard a taped account of Gail's
      conversation with a friend who had doubts about Eckankar's legitimacy.

      I was in his kitchen when he telephoned Gail about 1981 or 1982. At
      the time he had a ranch in California. He and Gail had been friends
      in the past. Charlie was one of the few guests invited to she [sic]
      and Darwin's wedding in Sedona. I taped the conversation.... Gail was
      helping her friend Charlie, to come to terms with Eckankar. She told
      him Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing. I was there during the
      telephone conversation ... find Charlie and ask for the tape and hear
      it yourself. (9)

      * (9) See Message 386 at
      http://www.angelfire.com/sys/popup_source.shtml?search_string=tuzahu.
      [Based on: Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to Higher
      Consciousness, by Ford Johnson, p. 226]  

         "Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing." Is that what Gail said?
      Why didn't she mention it until AFTER Paul was dead?

         Question: About the invention of the Eck Masters and the Mahanta.
      Was it Gail's idea? (It's a question. NOT a statement.) According to
      Eckankar: "Paul Twitchell first met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951 in the
      foothills of the Himalayas near Darjeeling." Did Paul Twitchell
      mention Rebazar Tarzs to Gail? Did Paul Twitchell mention Mahanta to
      Gail?    

      From May 6th, 1963 to March 16th, 1965 Paul Twitchell wrote a
      series of letters to Gail. These were recorded in the books: Letters
      to Gail, volumes 1, 2, & 3. Can anybody tell me if the name Rebazar
      Tarzs appears? Can anybody tell me if the word Mahanta appears? Far
      as I can tell you right now, documented evidence doesn't appear until
      AFTER Paul Twitchell met Gail. Is there "credible" documented
      evidence to suggests otherwise? This is something I would like to
      find out.

      Question: When was the name Rebazar Tarzs first published? Was it
      1964? The year that Paul and Gail were married? I don't know if this
      is a reliable source, but anyway:

      [....] In January 1964, Orion Magazine published a piece by Twitchell
      that mentioned Sudar Singh, placing him in Allahabad, India and
      describing him as a teacher of Shabda Yoga. There actually was a
      spiritual leader named Sudarshan Singh, in Allahabad, and some
      believe Sudar Singh is a character based upon this figure. Similarly,
      Rebazar Tarzs' name was first published in 1964.

      [Based on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebazar_Tarzs%5d - [See section
      entitled: Origins of the ECK masters]

         Was it 1964? Is this the earliest year that we can "prove" Rebazar
      Tarzs?

      "[....] I have since found two other early articles of Paul's [...]:
      An article that ran in early 1966 called, Can You Be In Two Places At
      The Same Time?, shows Sudar Singh, from Allahabad, India, along with
      Bernard of England, a Self-Realization Swami who has a retreat in
      Maryland, Kirpal Singh of Delhi, India, and Rebazar Tarzs, a Tibetan
      monk.    
      "The second article was called, The God Eaters, and ran in the
      November 1964 issue of The Psychic Observer. In the article Paul
      talks about Rebazar Tarzu [sic], who he 'made contact with...through
      bilocation,' and Kirpal Singh as his teachers. These examples clearly
      show that both Sudar Singh and Rebazar Tarzs were referred to, side
      by side with Kirpal Singh. It was not until late 1966 before Paul
      suddenly stopped referring to Kirpal Singh. [....]"

      [Based on: Doug Marman, Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 11]

         Apparently Paul Twitchell met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951, but his name
      wasn't published until 1964. Can it be proven as documented fact that
      Rebazar Tarzs appeared in 1964? (Yes?) Can it be proven as documented
      fact that Paul Twitchell met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951? (No?)  

      What about Mahanta? Paul Twitchell's Eckankar Dictionary did NOT
      have an entry for Mahanta. Instead it had Mahanta Consciousness.
      Apparently, Paul first published the term Mahanta in 1969, in the
      book: The Flute of God. (Apparently) However, another report mentions
      Mahanta in connection with the year 1965.

      In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's condition of
      mythomania, Klemp continues to delude himself into believing that
      Twitchell's 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually true.

      [Based on: http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/openletter2.asp%5d - [See:
      How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated]

         I'm trying to clarify a trivia timeline. If I am wrong about no
      credible documented evidence for Rebazar Tarzs or Mahanta (used by
      Paul Twitchell) BEFORE he met Gail, somebody please fill me in? One
      thing is for sure. The use of the words Rebazar Tarzs and Mahanta -
      along with the word Eckankar - grow steadily after Paul and Gail meet.
      (Yes. I know. It's only speculation.)

      We were married in 1964 in San Francisco, and shortly afterwards
      Rebazar Tarzs began to appear and give me intensive instructions. He
      had been appearing regularly in the latter fifties [later fifties?],
      but he said that those sessions had only been designed to prepare me
      for the exhaustive drills which now faced me. I was told to move
      south, to choose San Diego for our home. My first out-of-town lecture
      was at Long Beach, where three gentle ladies, two widows and a
      spinster came. I decided that I could lecture as well to three as to
      three hundred. Word began to get around about Eck, so I agreed to
      write the monthly discourses and to offer instructions by mail. I
      went from three chelas to thousands in less than three years.

      [Brad Steiger, op. cit., pages 64-65.] - [see link]
      http://members.tripod.com/~dlane5/nath.html - [my brackets]

      *********
         In connection with his biography, In My Soul I Am Free, written by
      Brad Steiger, Paul was asked when he started to formulate the message
      of Eckankar. He responded, "Probably when my sister, Kay-Dee, died in
      1959." When asked when he changed from being a Cliff-Hanger to a
      spiritual adept, he replied:

      The switchover from the Cliff-Hanger to ECK began taking place
      after I met my present wife, Gail. She insisted I do something with
      my knowledge and abilities.

      [Based on: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to
      Higher Consciousness, Copyright 2003, pp. 93 & 486]

      *********
         Gail tried to convince her husband that naming the next Mahanta
      was something that he had to do. Not her:

      I remember, however, Gail describing how many times she had told
      Paul that he needed to select his successor before he died - that she
      wasn't going to be put in a position where she or anyone else should
      have to make such a decision. Gail told Paul quite clearly that this
      was Paul's job and if he didn't take care of it before he left this
      world, well, that was just too bad, because she certainly wasn't
      going to make the selection.

      [Based on: Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 4] - [See: Paulji,
      A Memoir, by Patti Simpson]

      *********
         Did she convince him? Apparently not! Gail not only named his
      successor, she married him! When 1982 came around and the Living Eck
      Master was Harold Klemp? what then? Gail sold the works of Paul
      Twitchell to Eckankar. BUT:

      The Corporation received custody of the works only by agreeing
      without reservation to a binding protection clause: "the Corporation
      AGREES TO PLACE THE WORKS UNDER THE DIRECTION AND CONTROL OF DARWIN
      GROSS TO ASSURE THEIR ORIGINALITY AND PROPER PRESENTATION AS PROVIDED
      BY PAUL TWITCHELL AND SUBSEQUENTLY BY GAIL A. ANDERSON."  

      http://www.geocities.com/bill_flavell/SriDarwinGrossSriPaulTwitchellBo
      okContractJul15.1982.jpg]
      [Source Link: http://www.geocities.com/bill_flavell/index.html%5d -
      [watch for pop-ups!]

         Why did Gail A. Anderson sell the works of Paul Twitchell for
      $500,000? (and release herself from all liability?) Why did Gail A.
      Anderson try to "PLACE THE WORKS UNDER THE DIRECTION AND CONTROL OF
      DARWIN GROSS"(?) I thought the Living Eck Master was the direction
      and control of Eckankar? I thought the Eck Masters dictated the
      Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad and other Eckankar works? Didn't Gail A. Anderson
      trust the Living Eck Master? She was married to two!!!

      Is the "protection clause" that Darwin refers to a forgery?

         Here are three questions for Gail (whatever her last name now):
      Was it that "Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing"(?) Is this what
      you said? Why wasn't it mentioned until AFTER he was dead?

      It was ten years after Paul died (in 1971) when Gail allegedly
      mentioned this? 1981 or 1982? That's about the time when someone else
      was taking over. Namely, Harold Klemp.

      I know that it's only speculation on my part to believe that Gail
      might have had anything to do with "the whole Eckankar thing". We all
      know that "Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing"(?) Right? He would
      never have gone out of his way for the woman that he loved? Since
      when do men do that?

      Paul is gone so we can't find out from him. And whatever Gail had
      to do with "the whole Eckankar thing", how will we ever truly know?
      How could we prove it?

      When exactly is her book coming out? Tuza Hu?

      Etznab
    • Non ekster
      The burden of proof lies with the eckist who tries to maintain that eckankar is for real and not a scam. So far any proof of such and that Harold Klemp is God
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 5, 2006
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        The burden of proof lies with the eckist who tries to maintain that
        eckankar is for real and not a scam. So far any proof of such and that
        Harold Klemp is God on earth and embodies the highest level of
        consciousness in the Universe has failed miserably. Yes, I believe
        that the WHOLE thing is a blatant, deceitful SCAM.

        noneckster ; )

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "makiztor"
        <etznab@...> wrote:
        >
        Do we know that Paul made up the "WHOLE" Eckankar thing?

        The first account of Gail's repudiation of Eckankar comes from one
        of her acquaintences, who heard a taped account of Gail's
        conversation with a friend who had doubts about Eckankar's legitimacy.

        I was in his kitchen when he telephoned Gail about 1981 or 1982. At
        the time he had a ranch in California. He and Gail had been friends
        in the past. Charlie was one of the few guests invited to she [sic]
        and Darwin's wedding in Sedona. I taped the conversation.... Gail was
        helping her friend Charlie, to come to terms with Eckankar. She told
        him Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing. I was there during the
        telephone conversation ... find Charlie and ask for the tape and hear
        it yourself. (9)

        * (9) See Message 386 at
        http://www.angelfire.com/sys/popup_source.shtml?search_string=tuzahu.
        [Based on: Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to Higher
        Consciousness, by Ford Johnson, p. 226]

        "Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing." Is that what Gail said?
        Why didn't she mention it until AFTER Paul was dead?

        Question: About the invention of the Eck Masters and the Mahanta.
        Was it Gail's idea? (It's a question. NOT a statement.) According to
        Eckankar: "Paul Twitchell first met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951 in the
        foothills of the Himalayas near Darjeeling." Did Paul Twitchell
        mention Rebazar Tarzs to Gail? Did Paul Twitchell mention Mahanta to
        Gail?

        From May 6th, 1963 to March 16th, 1965 Paul Twitchell wrote a
        series of letters to Gail. These were recorded in the books: Letters
        to Gail, volumes 1, 2, & 3. Can anybody tell me if the name Rebazar
        Tarzs appears? Can anybody tell me if the word Mahanta appears? Far
        as I can tell you right now, documented evidence doesn't appear until
        AFTER Paul Twitchell met Gail. Is there "credible" documented
        evidence to suggests otherwise? This is something I would like to
        find out.

        Question: When was the name Rebazar Tarzs first published? Was it
        1964? The year that Paul and Gail were married? I don't know if this
        is a reliable source, but anyway:

        [....] In January 1964, Orion Magazine published a piece by Twitchell
        that mentioned Sudar Singh, placing him in Allahabad, India and
        describing him as a teacher of Shabda Yoga. There actually was a
        spiritual leader named Sudarshan Singh, in Allahabad, and some
        believe Sudar Singh is a character based upon this figure. Similarly,
        Rebazar Tarzs' name was first published in 1964.

        [Based on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebazar_Tarzs%5d - [See section
        entitled: Origins of the ECK masters]

        Was it 1964? Is this the earliest year that we can "prove" Rebazar
        Tarzs?

        "[....] I have since found two other early articles of Paul's [...]:
        An article that ran in early 1966 called, Can You Be In Two Places At
        The Same Time?, shows Sudar Singh, from Allahabad, India, along with
        Bernard of England, a Self-Realization Swami who has a retreat in
        Maryland, Kirpal Singh of Delhi, India, and Rebazar Tarzs, a Tibetan
        monk.
        "The second article was called, The God Eaters, and ran in the
        November 1964 issue of The Psychic Observer. In the article Paul
        talks about Rebazar Tarzu [sic], who he 'made contact with...through
        bilocation,' and Kirpal Singh as his teachers. These examples clearly
        show that both Sudar Singh and Rebazar Tarzs were referred to, side
        by side with Kirpal Singh. It was not until late 1966 before Paul
        suddenly stopped referring to Kirpal Singh. [....]"

        [Based on: Doug Marman, Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 11]

        Apparently Paul Twitchell met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951, but his name
        wasn't published until 1964. Can it be proven as documented fact that
        Rebazar Tarzs appeared in 1964? (Yes?) Can it be proven as documented
        fact that Paul Twitchell met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951? (No?)

        What about Mahanta? Paul Twitchell's Eckankar Dictionary did NOT
        have an entry for Mahanta. Instead it had Mahanta Consciousness.
        Apparently, Paul first published the term Mahanta in 1969, in the
        book: The Flute of God. (Apparently) However, another report mentions
        Mahanta in connection with the year 1965.

        In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's condition of
        mythomania, Klemp continues to delude himself into believing that
        Twitchell's 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually true.

        [Based on: http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/openletter2.asp%5d - [See:
        How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated]

        I'm trying to clarify a trivia timeline. If I am wrong about no
        credible documented evidence for Rebazar Tarzs or Mahanta (used by
        Paul Twitchell) BEFORE he met Gail, somebody please fill me in? One
        thing is for sure. The use of the words Rebazar Tarzs and Mahanta -
        along with the word Eckankar - grow steadily after Paul and Gail meet.
        (Yes. I know. It's only speculation.)

        We were married in 1964 in San Francisco, and shortly afterwards
        Rebazar Tarzs began to appear and give me intensive instructions. He
        had been appearing regularly in the latter fifties [later fifties?],
        but he said that those sessions had only been designed to prepare me
        for the exhaustive drills which now faced me. I was told to move
        south, to choose San Diego for our home. My first out-of-town lecture
        was at Long Beach, where three gentle ladies, two widows and a
        spinster came. I decided that I could lecture as well to three as to
        three hundred. Word began to get around about Eck, so I agreed to
        write the monthly discourses and to offer instructions by mail. I
        went from three chelas to thousands in less than three years.

        [Brad Steiger, op. cit., pages 64-65.] - [see link]
        http://members.tripod.com/~dlane5/nath.html - [my brackets]

        *********
        In connection with his biography, In My Soul I Am Free, written by
        Brad Steiger, Paul was asked when he started to formulate the message
        of Eckankar. He responded, "Probably when my sister, Kay-Dee, died in
        1959." When asked when he changed from being a Cliff-Hanger to a
        spiritual adept, he replied:

        The switchover from the Cliff-Hanger to ECK began taking place
        after I met my present wife, Gail. She insisted I do something with
        my knowledge and abilities.

        [Based on: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to
        Higher Consciousness, Copyright 2003, pp. 93 & 486]

        *********
        Gail tried to convince her husband that naming the next Mahanta
        was something that he had to do. Not her:

        I remember, however, Gail describing how many times she had told
        Paul that he needed to select his successor before he died - that she
        wasn't going to be put in a position where she or anyone else should
        have to make such a decision. Gail told Paul quite clearly that this
        was Paul's job and if he didn't take care of it before he left this
        world, well, that was just too bad, because she certainly wasn't
        going to make the selection.

        [Based on: Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 4] - [See: Paulji,
        A Memoir, by Patti Simpson]

        *********
        Did she convince him? Apparently not! Gail not only named his
        successor, she married him! When 1982 came around and the Living Eck
        Master was Harold Klemp? what then? Gail sold the works of Paul
        Twitchell to Eckankar. BUT:

        The Corporation received custody of the works only by agreeing
        without reservation to a binding protection clause: "the Corporation
        AGREES TO PLACE THE WORKS UNDER THE DIRECTION AND CONTROL OF DARWIN
        GROSS TO ASSURE THEIR ORIGINALITY AND PROPER PRESENTATION AS PROVIDED
        BY PAUL TWITCHELL AND SUBSEQUENTLY BY GAIL A. ANDERSON."

        http://www.geocities.com/bill_flavell/SriDarwinGrossSriPaulTwitchellBo
        okContractJul15.1982.jpg]
        [Source Link: http://www.geocities.com/bill_flavell/index.html%5d -
        [watch for pop-ups!]

        Why did Gail A. Anderson sell the works of Paul Twitchell for
        $500,000? (and release herself from all liability?) Why did Gail A.
        Anderson try to "PLACE THE WORKS UNDER THE DIRECTION AND CONTROL OF
        DARWIN GROSS"(?) I thought the Living Eck Master was the direction
        and control of Eckankar? I thought the Eck Masters dictated the
        Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad and other Eckankar works? Didn't Gail A. Anderson
        trust the Living Eck Master? She was married to two!!!

        Is the "protection clause" that Darwin refers to a forgery?

        Here are three questions for Gail (whatever her last name now):
        Was it that "Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing"(?) Is this what
        you said? Why wasn't it mentioned until AFTER he was dead?

        It was ten years after Paul died (in 1971) when Gail allegedly
        mentioned this? 1981 or 1982? That's about the time when someone else
        was taking over. Namely, Harold Klemp.

        I know that it's only speculation on my part to believe that Gail
        might have had anything to do with "the whole Eckankar thing". We all
        know that "Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing"(?) Right? He would
        never have gone out of his way for the woman that he loved? Since
        when do men do that?

        Paul is gone so we can't find out from him. And whatever Gail had
        to do with "the whole Eckankar thing", how will we ever truly know?
        How could we prove it?

        When exactly is her book coming out? Tuza Hu?

        Etznab
      • Sandra
        Etznab, were you aware that Paul and Gail met at a library where Gail was employed? After they married, she took jobs working at a (of all places) library
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 5, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Etznab, were you aware that Paul and Gail met at a library where
          Gail was employed? After they married, she took jobs working at a
          (of all places) library where ever they were residing at the time!
          Curious, did this allow them easier access to the books Twitchell
          plagiarised from?

          When will Gail's tell all book come out? It has been written, and
          is suppose to be published after her death.


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "makiztor"
          <etznab@...> wrote:
          >
          > Do we know that Paul made up the "WHOLE" Eckankar thing?
          >
          > The first account of Gail's repudiation of Eckankar comes from
          one
          > of her acquaintences, who heard a taped account of Gail's
          > conversation with a friend who had doubts about Eckankar's
          legitimacy.
          >
          > I was in his kitchen when he telephoned Gail about 1981 or 1982.
          At
          > the time he had a ranch in California. He and Gail had been
          friends
          > in the past. Charlie was one of the few guests invited to she
          [sic]
          > and Darwin's wedding in Sedona. I taped the conversation.... Gail
          was
          > helping her friend Charlie, to come to terms with Eckankar. She
          told
          > him Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing. I was there during the
          > telephone conversation ... find Charlie and ask for the tape and
          hear
          > it yourself. (9)
          >
          > * (9) See Message 386 at
          > http://www.angelfire.com/sys/popup_source.shtml?
          search_string=tuzahu.
          > [Based on: Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to Higher
          > Consciousness, by Ford Johnson, p. 226]  
          >
          >    "Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing." Is that what Gail
          said?
          > Why didn't she mention it until AFTER Paul was dead?
          >
          >    Question: About the invention of the Eck Masters and the
          Mahanta.
          > Was it Gail's idea? (It's a question. NOT a statement.) According
          to
          > Eckankar: "Paul Twitchell first met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951 in the
          > foothills of the Himalayas near Darjeeling." Did Paul Twitchell
          > mention Rebazar Tarzs to Gail? Did Paul Twitchell mention Mahanta
          to
          > Gail?    
          >
          > From May 6th, 1963 to March 16th, 1965 Paul Twitchell wrote a
          > series of letters to Gail. These were recorded in the books:
          Letters
          > to Gail, volumes 1, 2, & 3. Can anybody tell me if the name
          Rebazar
          > Tarzs appears? Can anybody tell me if the word Mahanta appears?
          Far
          > as I can tell you right now, documented evidence doesn't appear
          until
          > AFTER Paul Twitchell met Gail. Is there "credible" documented
          > evidence to suggests otherwise? This is something I would like to
          > find out.
          >
          > Question: When was the name Rebazar Tarzs first published? Was
          it
          > 1964? The year that Paul and Gail were married? I don't know if
          this
          > is a reliable source, but anyway:
          >
          > [....] In January 1964, Orion Magazine published a piece by
          Twitchell
          > that mentioned Sudar Singh, placing him in Allahabad, India and
          > describing him as a teacher of Shabda Yoga. There actually was a
          > spiritual leader named Sudarshan Singh, in Allahabad, and some
          > believe Sudar Singh is a character based upon this figure.
          Similarly,
          > Rebazar Tarzs' name was first published in 1964.
          >
          > [Based on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebazar_Tarzs%5d - [See
          section
          > entitled: Origins of the ECK masters]
          >
          >    Was it 1964? Is this the earliest year that we can "prove"
          Rebazar
          > Tarzs?
          >
          > "[....] I have since found two other early articles of Paul's
          [...]:
          > An article that ran in early 1966 called, Can You Be In Two Places
          At
          > The Same Time?, shows Sudar Singh, from Allahabad, India, along
          with
          > Bernard of England, a Self-Realization Swami who has a retreat in
          > Maryland, Kirpal Singh of Delhi, India, and Rebazar Tarzs, a
          Tibetan
          > monk.    
          > "The second article was called, The God Eaters, and ran in the
          > November 1964 issue of The Psychic Observer. In the article Paul
          > talks about Rebazar Tarzu [sic], who he 'made contact
          with...through
          > bilocation,' and Kirpal Singh as his teachers. These examples
          clearly
          > show that both Sudar Singh and Rebazar Tarzs were referred to,
          side
          > by side with Kirpal Singh. It was not until late 1966 before Paul
          > suddenly stopped referring to Kirpal Singh. [....]"
          >
          > [Based on: Doug Marman, Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 11]
          >
          >    Apparently Paul Twitchell met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951, but his
          name
          > wasn't published until 1964. Can it be proven as documented fact
          that
          > Rebazar Tarzs appeared in 1964? (Yes?) Can it be proven as
          documented
          > fact that Paul Twitchell met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951? (No?)  
          >
          > What about Mahanta? Paul Twitchell's Eckankar Dictionary did
          NOT
          > have an entry for Mahanta. Instead it had Mahanta Consciousness.
          > Apparently, Paul first published the term Mahanta in 1969, in the
          > book: The Flute of God. (Apparently) However, another report
          mentions
          > Mahanta in connection with the year 1965.
          >
          > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's condition of
          > mythomania, Klemp continues to delude himself into believing that
          > Twitchell's 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually true.
          >
          > [Based on: http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/openletter2.asp%5d - [See:
          > How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated]
          >
          >    I'm trying to clarify a trivia timeline. If I am wrong about no
          > credible documented evidence for Rebazar Tarzs or Mahanta (used by
          > Paul Twitchell) BEFORE he met Gail, somebody please fill me in?
          One
          > thing is for sure. The use of the words Rebazar Tarzs and Mahanta -

          > along with the word Eckankar - grow steadily after Paul and Gail
          meet.
          > (Yes. I know. It's only speculation.)
          >
          > We were married in 1964 in San Francisco, and shortly afterwards
          > Rebazar Tarzs began to appear and give me intensive instructions.
          He
          > had been appearing regularly in the latter fifties [later
          fifties?],
          > but he said that those sessions had only been designed to prepare
          me
          > for the exhaustive drills which now faced me. I was told to move
          > south, to choose San Diego for our home. My first out-of-town
          lecture
          > was at Long Beach, where three gentle ladies, two widows and a
          > spinster came. I decided that I could lecture as well to three as
          to
          > three hundred. Word began to get around about Eck, so I agreed to
          > write the monthly discourses and to offer instructions by mail. I
          > went from three chelas to thousands in less than three years.
          >
          > [Brad Steiger, op. cit., pages 64-65.] - [see link]
          > http://members.tripod.com/~dlane5/nath.html - [my brackets]
          >
          > *********
          >    In connection with his biography, In My Soul I Am Free, written
          by
          > Brad Steiger, Paul was asked when he started to formulate the
          message
          > of Eckankar. He responded, "Probably when my sister, Kay-Dee, died
          in
          > 1959." When asked when he changed from being a Cliff-Hanger to a
          > spiritual adept, he replied:
          >
          > The switchover from the Cliff-Hanger to ECK began taking place
          > after I met my present wife, Gail. She insisted I do something
          with
          > my knowledge and abilities.
          >
          > [Based on: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to
          > Higher Consciousness, Copyright 2003, pp. 93 & 486]
          >
          > *********
          >    Gail tried to convince her husband that naming the next Mahanta
          > was something that he had to do. Not her:
          >
          > I remember, however, Gail describing how many times she had
          told
          > Paul that he needed to select his successor before he died - that
          she
          > wasn't going to be put in a position where she or anyone else
          should
          > have to make such a decision. Gail told Paul quite clearly that
          this
          > was Paul's job and if he didn't take care of it before he left
          this
          > world, well, that was just too bad, because she certainly wasn't
          > going to make the selection.
          >
          > [Based on: Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 4] - [See:
          Paulji,
          > A Memoir, by Patti Simpson]
          >
          > *********
          >    Did she convince him? Apparently not! Gail not only named his
          > successor, she married him! When 1982 came around and the Living
          Eck
          > Master was Harold Klemp? what then? Gail sold the works of Paul
          > Twitchell to Eckankar. BUT:
          >
          > The Corporation received custody of the works only by agreeing
          > without reservation to a binding protection clause: "the
          Corporation
          > AGREES TO PLACE THE WORKS UNDER THE DIRECTION AND CONTROL OF
          DARWIN
          > GROSS TO ASSURE THEIR ORIGINALITY AND PROPER PRESENTATION AS
          PROVIDED
          > BY PAUL TWITCHELL AND SUBSEQUENTLY BY GAIL A. ANDERSON."  
          >
          >
          http://www.geocities.com/bill_flavell/SriDarwinGrossSriPaulTwitchellB
          o
          > okContractJul15.1982.jpg]
          > [Source Link: http://www.geocities.com/bill_flavell/index.html%5d -
          > [watch for pop-ups!]
          >
          >    Why did Gail A. Anderson sell the works of Paul Twitchell for
          > $500,000? (and release herself from all liability?) Why did Gail
          A.
          > Anderson try to "PLACE THE WORKS UNDER THE DIRECTION AND CONTROL
          OF
          > DARWIN GROSS"(?) I thought the Living Eck Master was the direction
          > and control of Eckankar? I thought the Eck Masters dictated the
          > Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad and other Eckankar works? Didn't Gail A.
          Anderson
          > trust the Living Eck Master? She was married to two!!!
          >
          > Is the "protection clause" that Darwin refers to a forgery?
          >
          >    Here are three questions for Gail (whatever her last name now):
          > Was it that "Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing"(?) Is this
          what
          > you said? Why wasn't it mentioned until AFTER he was dead?
          >
          > It was ten years after Paul died (in 1971) when Gail allegedly
          > mentioned this? 1981 or 1982? That's about the time when someone
          else
          > was taking over. Namely, Harold Klemp.
          >
          > I know that it's only speculation on my part to believe that
          Gail
          > might have had anything to do with "the whole Eckankar thing". We
          all
          > know that "Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing"(?) Right? He
          would
          > never have gone out of his way for the woman that he loved? Since
          > when do men do that?
          >
          > Paul is gone so we can't find out from him. And whatever Gail
          had
          > to do with "the whole Eckankar thing", how will we ever truly
          know?
          > How could we prove it?
          >
          > When exactly is her book coming out? Tuza Hu?
          >
          > Etznab
          >
        • skardicus
          ... wrote: The burden of... lies with each of us. No one can be responsible for our choices but us. Maybe my mind is programed to be a
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 5, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster"
            <eckchains@...> wrote:

            "The burden of..." lies with each of us. No one can be responsible
            for our choices but us. Maybe my mind is programed to be a sheep or
            something - here's the conundrum:

            If we blame eckankar for diminishing our well being does not mean the
            same impulse to do so also have a built in expectation that someone
            outside of our self must some how fix this diminishing? I don't mind
            my logic being corrected here - currently what I am expressing is how
            I frame the who-did-what-to-me-and-how-do-I-fix it. Is there a
            difference between blaming eckankar and the eck engineers for
            misleading us, lying, plagerizing, etc and the guy that sued McDonalds
            for making him fat and not telling him he would get that way?

            I guess what I'm saying is that as adults approaching a new faith -
            don't we have enough life insight to know we are going to have to
            "believe SOMETHING" and that there is no real quick way to validate or
            invalidate a large stack of eck books, videos, tapes, intro talks,
            satsangs, seminars...? In that knowing - did anyone ever ask before
            they drank the kool-aide "could this be crap?"?

            Maybe I'm not asking the right questions. Here's a cleaner question:

            What is your (any of you) relationship with eckankar after you leave?
            What is your relationship with the average eckist, Harry, etc?

            Since I've left - I've looked back at the organization with
            appreciation, indifference, disillusionment and I would guess that
            mostly I am indifferent toward the organization today.

            My relationship with the average eckist is (usually) a patient
            tolerance for their circular logic; An appreciation for understanding
            their need to belong and be accepted and be special; An appreciation
            for the narcissim that is cultivated by the faith and it's leadership
            and a curiosity of what led them there (needs, life choices, life
            situations) and if they will stay or move on.

            My relatioinship with Harry is a near clinical observation of his
            behaviors, appreciation of what I once saw, heard, felt compared to
            what glimpses I get now - the contrast of the old contexts (Major
            Seminars All over the world)to current contexts (The "master" doing
            his thing from HQ or missing and doing a Teleseminar). I guess for
            the most part I feel sorry for him.

            I guess the last category that is most significant is ex-friends, old
            friends that are still eckist, current friends that are still eckists.
            I endure their eck-speak and have no general impulse to disillusion
            them. I'm not even sure anything I could say to most of them would
            have an impact. I have little interest in a deep, lasting friendship
            with most of these people since our past significant common
            denominator used to be our religion and now no longer is.

            E-leadership. I admire their cunning and sophistication to turn
            Paul's mail-order religion into an international corporation. I frown
            at the all-to-familar Enron tactics I know some of their leaders have
            applied in order to keep the Corporation prospering. I am quite
            curious as to the real story - the big picture story of eckankar from
            Sci-Fi conception to Corporate Boom.

            Skard

            The burden of proof lies with the eckist who tries to maintain that
            > eckankar is for real and not a scam. So far any proof of such and that
            > Harold Klemp is God on earth and embodies the highest level of
            > consciousness in the Universe has failed miserably. Yes, I believe
            > that the WHOLE thing is a blatant, deceitful SCAM.
            >
            > noneckster ; )
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "makiztor"
            > <etznab@> wrote:
            > >
            > Do we know that Paul made up the "WHOLE" Eckankar thing?
            >
            > The first account of Gail's repudiation of Eckankar comes from one
            > of her acquaintences, who heard a taped account of Gail's
            > conversation with a friend who had doubts about Eckankar's legitimacy.
            >
            > I was in his kitchen when he telephoned Gail about 1981 or 1982. At
            > the time he had a ranch in California. He and Gail had been friends
            > in the past. Charlie was one of the few guests invited to she [sic]
            > and Darwin's wedding in Sedona. I taped the conversation.... Gail was
            > helping her friend Charlie, to come to terms with Eckankar. She told
            > him Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing. I was there during the
            > telephone conversation ... find Charlie and ask for the tape and hear
            > it yourself. (9)
            >
            > * (9) See Message 386 at
            > http://www.angelfire.com/sys/popup_source.shtml?search_string=tuzahu.
            > [Based on: Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to Higher
            > Consciousness, by Ford Johnson, p. 226]
            >
            > "Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing." Is that what Gail said?
            > Why didn't she mention it until AFTER Paul was dead?
            >
            > Question: About the invention of the Eck Masters and the Mahanta.
            > Was it Gail's idea? (It's a question. NOT a statement.) According to
            > Eckankar: "Paul Twitchell first met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951 in the
            > foothills of the Himalayas near Darjeeling." Did Paul Twitchell
            > mention Rebazar Tarzs to Gail? Did Paul Twitchell mention Mahanta to
            > Gail?
            >
            > From May 6th, 1963 to March 16th, 1965 Paul Twitchell wrote a
            > series of letters to Gail. These were recorded in the books: Letters
            > to Gail, volumes 1, 2, & 3. Can anybody tell me if the name Rebazar
            > Tarzs appears? Can anybody tell me if the word Mahanta appears? Far
            > as I can tell you right now, documented evidence doesn't appear until
            > AFTER Paul Twitchell met Gail. Is there "credible" documented
            > evidence to suggests otherwise? This is something I would like to
            > find out.
            >
            > Question: When was the name Rebazar Tarzs first published? Was it
            > 1964? The year that Paul and Gail were married? I don't know if this
            > is a reliable source, but anyway:
            >
            > [....] In January 1964, Orion Magazine published a piece by Twitchell
            > that mentioned Sudar Singh, placing him in Allahabad, India and
            > describing him as a teacher of Shabda Yoga. There actually was a
            > spiritual leader named Sudarshan Singh, in Allahabad, and some
            > believe Sudar Singh is a character based upon this figure. Similarly,
            > Rebazar Tarzs' name was first published in 1964.
            >
            > [Based on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebazar_Tarzs%5d - [See section
            > entitled: Origins of the ECK masters]
            >
            > Was it 1964? Is this the earliest year that we can "prove" Rebazar
            > Tarzs?
            >
            > "[....] I have since found two other early articles of Paul's [...]:
            > An article that ran in early 1966 called, Can You Be In Two Places At
            > The Same Time?, shows Sudar Singh, from Allahabad, India, along with
            > Bernard of England, a Self-Realization Swami who has a retreat in
            > Maryland, Kirpal Singh of Delhi, India, and Rebazar Tarzs, a Tibetan
            > monk.
            > "The second article was called, The God Eaters, and ran in the
            > November 1964 issue of The Psychic Observer. In the article Paul
            > talks about Rebazar Tarzu [sic], who he 'made contact with...through
            > bilocation,' and Kirpal Singh as his teachers. These examples clearly
            > show that both Sudar Singh and Rebazar Tarzs were referred to, side
            > by side with Kirpal Singh. It was not until late 1966 before Paul
            > suddenly stopped referring to Kirpal Singh. [....]"
            >
            > [Based on: Doug Marman, Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 11]
            >
            > Apparently Paul Twitchell met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951, but his name
            > wasn't published until 1964. Can it be proven as documented fact that
            > Rebazar Tarzs appeared in 1964? (Yes?) Can it be proven as documented
            > fact that Paul Twitchell met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951? (No?)
            >
            > What about Mahanta? Paul Twitchell's Eckankar Dictionary did NOT
            > have an entry for Mahanta. Instead it had Mahanta Consciousness.
            > Apparently, Paul first published the term Mahanta in 1969, in the
            > book: The Flute of God. (Apparently) However, another report mentions
            > Mahanta in connection with the year 1965.
            >
            > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's condition of
            > mythomania, Klemp continues to delude himself into believing that
            > Twitchell's 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually true.
            >
            > [Based on: http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/openletter2.asp%5d - [See:
            > How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated]
            >
            > I'm trying to clarify a trivia timeline. If I am wrong about no
            > credible documented evidence for Rebazar Tarzs or Mahanta (used by
            > Paul Twitchell) BEFORE he met Gail, somebody please fill me in? One
            > thing is for sure. The use of the words Rebazar Tarzs and Mahanta -
            > along with the word Eckankar - grow steadily after Paul and Gail meet.
            > (Yes. I know. It's only speculation.)
            >
            > We were married in 1964 in San Francisco, and shortly afterwards
            > Rebazar Tarzs began to appear and give me intensive instructions. He
            > had been appearing regularly in the latter fifties [later fifties?],
            > but he said that those sessions had only been designed to prepare me
            > for the exhaustive drills which now faced me. I was told to move
            > south, to choose San Diego for our home. My first out-of-town lecture
            > was at Long Beach, where three gentle ladies, two widows and a
            > spinster came. I decided that I could lecture as well to three as to
            > three hundred. Word began to get around about Eck, so I agreed to
            > write the monthly discourses and to offer instructions by mail. I
            > went from three chelas to thousands in less than three years.
            >
            > [Brad Steiger, op. cit., pages 64-65.] - [see link]
            > http://members.tripod.com/~dlane5/nath.html - [my brackets]
            >
            > *********
            > In connection with his biography, In My Soul I Am Free, written by
            > Brad Steiger, Paul was asked when he started to formulate the message
            > of Eckankar. He responded, "Probably when my sister, Kay-Dee, died in
            > 1959." When asked when he changed from being a Cliff-Hanger to a
            > spiritual adept, he replied:
            >
            > The switchover from the Cliff-Hanger to ECK began taking place
            > after I met my present wife, Gail. She insisted I do something with
            > my knowledge and abilities.
            >
            > [Based on: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to
            > Higher Consciousness, Copyright 2003, pp. 93 & 486]
            >
            > *********
            > Gail tried to convince her husband that naming the next Mahanta
            > was something that he had to do. Not her:
            >
            > I remember, however, Gail describing how many times she had told
            > Paul that he needed to select his successor before he died - that she
            > wasn't going to be put in a position where she or anyone else should
            > have to make such a decision. Gail told Paul quite clearly that this
            > was Paul's job and if he didn't take care of it before he left this
            > world, well, that was just too bad, because she certainly wasn't
            > going to make the selection.
            >
            > [Based on: Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 4] - [See: Paulji,
            > A Memoir, by Patti Simpson]
            >
            > *********
            > Did she convince him? Apparently not! Gail not only named his
            > successor, she married him! When 1982 came around and the Living Eck
            > Master was Harold Klemp? what then? Gail sold the works of Paul
            > Twitchell to Eckankar. BUT:
            >
            > The Corporation received custody of the works only by agreeing
            > without reservation to a binding protection clause: "the Corporation
            > AGREES TO PLACE THE WORKS UNDER THE DIRECTION AND CONTROL OF DARWIN
            > GROSS TO ASSURE THEIR ORIGINALITY AND PROPER PRESENTATION AS PROVIDED
            > BY PAUL TWITCHELL AND SUBSEQUENTLY BY GAIL A. ANDERSON."
            >
            > http://www.geocities.com/bill_flavell/SriDarwinGrossSriPaulTwitchellBo
            > okContractJul15.1982.jpg]
            > [Source Link: http://www.geocities.com/bill_flavell/index.html%5d -
            > [watch for pop-ups!]
            >
            > Why did Gail A. Anderson sell the works of Paul Twitchell for
            > $500,000? (and release herself from all liability?) Why did Gail A.
            > Anderson try to "PLACE THE WORKS UNDER THE DIRECTION AND CONTROL OF
            > DARWIN GROSS"(?) I thought the Living Eck Master was the direction
            > and control of Eckankar? I thought the Eck Masters dictated the
            > Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad and other Eckankar works? Didn't Gail A. Anderson
            > trust the Living Eck Master? She was married to two!!!
            >
            > Is the "protection clause" that Darwin refers to a forgery?
            >
            > Here are three questions for Gail (whatever her last name now):
            > Was it that "Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing"(?) Is this what
            > you said? Why wasn't it mentioned until AFTER he was dead?
            >
            > It was ten years after Paul died (in 1971) when Gail allegedly
            > mentioned this? 1981 or 1982? That's about the time when someone else
            > was taking over. Namely, Harold Klemp.
            >
            > I know that it's only speculation on my part to believe that Gail
            > might have had anything to do with "the whole Eckankar thing". We all
            > know that "Paul made up the whole Eckankar thing"(?) Right? He would
            > never have gone out of his way for the woman that he loved? Since
            > when do men do that?
            >
            > Paul is gone so we can't find out from him. And whatever Gail had
            > to do with "the whole Eckankar thing", how will we ever truly know?
            > How could we prove it?
            >
            > When exactly is her book coming out? Tuza Hu?
            >
            > Etznab
            >
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