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DG and HK had SECRET MEETINGS Without SOUND & LIGHT

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi All, I found this GOLDEN TONGUED WISDOM in Klemp s own words. While researching some things, to respond to a site member, I found the exact pages where
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 17, 2005
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      Hi All,

      I found this "GOLDEN TONGUED WISDOM" in Klemp's own words. While
      researching some things, to respond to a site member, I found the
      exact pages where Harold Klemp (HK) had secret meetings with Darwin
      Gross (DG) in a Sound Proof Dark Room! These facts are mentioned in
      Klemp's book "Soul Travelers of the Far Country."

      Gross was meeting with Klemp because Gross had decided that Klemp
      would be a good successor. Klemp was a writer and Gross was not and
      Klemp seemed meek, naive, and controllable. Little did Gross know
      that Harold had learned to "play the game" when he had his "break
      down" (1970 God-Realization spin) in order to be released from the
      mental institution he had been committed to.

      NOTE: Klemp tells (in two books) about his whole
      delusional/psychotic experience and about learning how to "play the
      game" in order to be released from custody. The problem here is that
      HK only learned how to "play the game," but was never healed or
      cured. Therefore, his psychotic disorder(s) continues, but are
      masked through the guise of being the Mahanta and highest
      consciousness (and ultimate savior) in all of the inner and outer
      universes of GOD!

      In Chapter 7 "Disappointments on the Way to ECK Mastership" Klemp
      mentions the 'inner' "soundproof, private room" that he and Gross
      are to meet in (page 130). The irony is that Klemp points out that
      it is an 'inner' room, but doesn't see the implication of the room
      being "SOUNDPROOF!" No "WAKING DREAM" OR "GOLDEN TONGUED WISDOM"
      here for Klemp!

      If this clueless awareness and behavior isn't bad enough there's
      also the factor that this is a photo "DARK ROOM lab" as well (page
      132). Therefore, the room is designed to prevent light from coming
      in! For any Eckist that has any amount of knowledge and awareness of
      Eck dogma regarding the Twin Pillars of ECK (the Sound and Light)
      this would be a factor in planning a meeting to take over the
      L.E.M./Mahanta position! The truth is that Harold was so focused and
      desperate to become L.E.M. that he would have met with Darwin on top
      of a pile of dung!

      The sad thing is that not only don't Eckists see the Truth of this
      event, but that Klemp is blind to it as well. Or, is he really blind
      to it? How and why would he be blind to this? Not only was HK an 8th
      initiate when this took place, but he was a 14th and the Mahanta
      when recounting these events in this book. Actually, Harold knows
      that Eckankar and the Mahanta is all a fraud, and this is why there
      was no concern for the implications of where he and Gross met. Case
      closed! What do you think... have I nailed it! I think so. Why else
      would there be no concern, at all, about meeting in a SOUND & LIGHT
      proof room in order to discuss Klemp becoming the 973rd
      L.E.M./Mahanta?

      Prometheus
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, Prometheus! Good post revealing this bit of the Gross/Klemp story! It is mentioned in both of Klemp s autobiographical books. Both books are basically the
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 18, 2005
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        Hi, Prometheus!

        Good post revealing this bit of the Gross/Klemp story! It is
        mentioned in both of Klemp's autobiographical books. Both books are
        basically the same, but Klemp republishes many of his writings under
        new titles--anyone notice that? I did because I read all of his
        transcripts and some other books in a year's time. Much was
        extremely redundant! Why, did he do this? Well, it keeps people
        buying new books--keeps the money rolling in. I think it is an
        indicator of how easily brainwashed and misled people can be in such
        situations. I wonder if Harold even chuckles to himself at how
        gullible people are when they keep spending time and money on his
        recycled books??

        One story he tells in both of his autobio-books is the one where he
        was a very young boy and an adult made a joke with other men at
        little "Harold's" expense. It embarrassed Harold greatly, and it
        seems to this day, he has not gotten over it. He seems to hold a lot
        of anger about it. I wonder why he can't reflect on it with
        adult "eyes?" Why does he continue to see it negatively instead of
        as a positive learning experience. The man just made a funny joke to
        create laughter and fun with the group of farmers who were working
        together that one day. It was a social thing, and I'm sure the man
        did not realize that sensitive little Harold was so offended--and
        still is to this day!

        This anger is definitely a flaw that has been long standing with
        Harold, and it explains why as L.E.M. he can so easily dish it out
        but can't take it. He demonstrates this angry behavior in some of
        his talks and writings (other stories)--and it also explains why he
        comes down hard on some of his "miscreant" followers. It trickles
        down through the organization, as well, as H.I. leaders emulate his
        behavior and mistreat other Eckists: the silent treatment, shunning,
        taking away initiations and positions and so forth.

        Well, what an experience Eckankar has been! : )

        Mish



        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
        > Hi All,
        >
        > I found this "GOLDEN TONGUED WISDOM" in Klemp's own words. While
        > researching some things, to respond to a site member, I found the
        > exact pages where Harold Klemp (HK) had secret meetings with
        Darwin
        > Gross (DG) in a Sound Proof Dark Room! These facts are mentioned
        in
        > Klemp's book "Soul Travelers of the Far Country."
        >
        > Gross was meeting with Klemp because Gross had decided that Klemp
        > would be a good successor. Klemp was a writer and Gross was not
        and
        > Klemp seemed meek, naive, and controllable. Little did Gross know
        > that Harold had learned to "play the game" when he had his "break
        > down" (1970 God-Realization spin) in order to be released from the
        > mental institution he had been committed to.
        >
        > NOTE: Klemp tells (in two books) about his whole
        > delusional/psychotic experience and about learning how to "play
        the
        > game" in order to be released from custody. The problem here is
        that
        > HK only learned how to "play the game," but was never healed or
        > cured. Therefore, his psychotic disorder(s) continues, but are
        > masked through the guise of being the Mahanta and highest
        > consciousness (and ultimate savior) in all of the inner and outer
        > universes of GOD!
        >
        > In Chapter 7 "Disappointments on the Way to ECK Mastership" Klemp
        > mentions the 'inner' "soundproof, private room" that he and Gross
        > are to meet in (page 130). The irony is that Klemp points out that
        > it is an 'inner' room, but doesn't see the implication of the room
        > being "SOUNDPROOF!" No "WAKING DREAM" OR "GOLDEN TONGUED WISDOM"
        > here for Klemp!
        >
        > If this clueless awareness and behavior isn't bad enough there's
        > also the factor that this is a photo "DARK ROOM lab" as well (page
        > 132). Therefore, the room is designed to prevent light from coming
        > in! For any Eckist that has any amount of knowledge and awareness
        of
        > Eck dogma regarding the Twin Pillars of ECK (the Sound and Light)
        > this would be a factor in planning a meeting to take over the
        > L.E.M./Mahanta position! The truth is that Harold was so focused
        and
        > desperate to become L.E.M. that he would have met with Darwin on
        top
        > of a pile of dung!
        >
        > The sad thing is that not only don't Eckists see the Truth of this
        > event, but that Klemp is blind to it as well. Or, is he really
        blind
        > to it? How and why would he be blind to this? Not only was HK an
        8th
        > initiate when this took place, but he was a 14th and the Mahanta
        > when recounting these events in this book. Actually, Harold knows
        > that Eckankar and the Mahanta is all a fraud, and this is why
        there
        > was no concern for the implications of where he and Gross met.
        Case
        > closed! What do you think... have I nailed it! I think so. Why
        else
        > would there be no concern, at all, about meeting in a SOUND &
        LIGHT
        > proof room in order to discuss Klemp becoming the 973rd
        > L.E.M./Mahanta?
        >
        > Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Mish, You make some great points and I remember that farm story! ... Klemp republishes many of his writings under new titles--anyone notice that? Yes, and
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 18, 2005
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          Hi Mish,

          You make some great points and I remember that farm story!

          >>"mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
          Klemp republishes many of his writings under new titles--anyone
          notice that?

          Yes, and I'm thinking that another reason for "writing" all of these
          books is due to his vanity (actually Klemp just uses initiate
          reports, and embellished stories mailed to the ESC for much of his
          material). Early on Klemp just wanted to get into "Who's Who" like
          Twitchell, and "writing" all of these books accomplished this!
          Eckists should feel just as proud as Klemp does that their savior is
          so clever!

          >> One story he tells in both of his autobio-books is the one where
          he was a very young boy and an adult made a joke with other men at
          little "Harold's" expense. It embarrassed Harold greatly, and it
          seems to this day, he has not gotten over it. He seems to hold a lot
          of anger about it. I wonder why he can't reflect on it with
          adult "eyes?" Why does he continue to see it negatively instead of
          as a positive learning experience. The man just made a funny joke to
          create laughter and fun with the group of farmers who were working
          together that one day. It was a social thing, and I'm sure the man
          did not realize that sensitive little Harold was so offended--and
          still is to this day! This anger is definitely a flaw that has been
          long standing with Harold, and it explains why as L.E.M. he can so
          easily dish it out but can't take it. He demonstrates this angry
          behavior in some of his talks and writings (other stories)--and it
          also explains why he comes down hard on some of his "miscreant"
          followers. It trickles down through the organization, as well, as
          H.I. leaders emulate his behavior and mistreat other Eckists: the
          silent treatment, shunning, taking away initiations and positions
          and so forth.

          Yes, this is where little HK was helping in the fields and driving
          the tractor. The men took a break and would have a couple of beers.
          There would be a lot of small talk and joking around while
          introverted, silent, and meek little Harold just watched and
          listened, but never participated in the conversations. Anyway, one
          of the men had to answer the call of nature and when he returned he
          discovered that someone had drunk his beer (this was done with
          Harold's knowledge so he knew about the joke). When the farmer
          protested to the rest of his peers that someone drank his beer one
          man pointed Harold out as the culprit! Everyone laughed and were
          having fun with the joke, but Harold didn't and he ran off and hid.
          The man who had jokingly blamed Harold sought him out and tried to
          console him, but to no avail. The really sad thing about this whole
          story is that Harold use to look up to this man prior to this
          incident, but now Harold states that he never did like this person
          after that and would avoid the man. Harold even mentions in the book
          that the man was hurt by this shunning. Another thing that seems to
          escape Harold, even today, is that this incident was not only a test
          for him, but that it was also a Right of Passage of which Harold
          obviously failed. This is just one more example of what has helped
          to lead Harold's to his own present day schizophrenic behavior. Just
          look at how the loving Mahanta attacked that Temporary Postal Clerk!

          Prometheus
        • ctecvie
          Hello Mish and Prometheus! ... are ... under ... Oh yes - he keeps recycling and recycling things - and sometimes he takes whole discourses and publishes them!
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 18, 2005
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            Hello Mish and Prometheus!

            > Good post revealing this bit of the Gross/Klemp story! It is
            > mentioned in both of Klemp's autobiographical books. Both books
            are
            > basically the same, but Klemp republishes many of his writings
            under
            > new titles--anyone notice that?
            Oh yes - he keeps recycling and recycling things - and sometimes he
            takes whole discourses and publishes them! I remember having noticed
            that with a youth discourse series - it did make me wonder but that
            was all at the time! :-) "The "modern prophet" is a recycling as
            well ...

            > I did because I read all of his
            > transcripts and some other books in a year's time. Much was
            > extremely redundant! Why, did he do this? Well, it keeps people
            > buying new books--keeps the money rolling in. I think it is an
            > indicator of how easily brainwashed and misled people can be in
            such
            > situations. I wonder if Harold even chuckles to himself at how
            > gullible people are when they keep spending time and money on his
            > recycled books??

            It took me a bit longer to notice ... but finally I did through the
            years. :-) Oh, I think Harold doesn't even notice the gullibility -
            in a sense, it's sad because that way, he misses a good laugh from
            time to time! ;-))
            >
            > One story he tells in both of his autobio-books is the one where
            he
            > was a very young boy and an adult made a joke with other men at
            > little "Harold's" expense. It embarrassed Harold greatly, and it
            > seems to this day, he has not gotten over it. He seems to hold a
            lot
            > of anger about it. I wonder why he can't reflect on it with
            > adult "eyes?" Why does he continue to see it negatively instead of
            > as a positive learning experience. The man just made a funny joke
            to
            > create laughter and fun with the group of farmers who were working
            > together that one day. It was a social thing, and I'm sure the man
            > did not realize that sensitive little Harold was so offended--and
            > still is to this day!

            A good psychotherapeutic session would have had him rid of that -
            but apparently he needs that because, were it otherwise, how could
            he tell those stories? He needs something to tell - and perhaps
            that's why anything related to psychology / psychotherapy is
            regarded as much "lesser" than Eckankar ...
            >
            > This anger is definitely a flaw that has been long standing with
            > Harold, and it explains why as L.E.M. he can so easily dish it out
            > but can't take it. He demonstrates this angry behavior in some of
            > his talks and writings (other stories)--and it also explains why
            he
            > comes down hard on some of his "miscreant" followers. It trickles
            > down through the organization, as well, as H.I. leaders emulate
            his
            > behavior and mistreat other Eckists: the silent treatment,
            shunning,
            > taking away initiations and positions and so forth.

            There's a saying in my language that goes like that: as the master,
            so the follower - it's easy to see in Eckankar! :-)
            >
            > Well, what an experience Eckankar has been! : )

            It definitely has been - and good that it "has been"! :-)

            Ingrid
          • prometheus_973
            Hi Ingrid, Yes, it s too bad, in one sense, that HK isn t aware of his followers gullibility or lack of critical thinking... he would be having some good
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 18, 2005
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              Hi Ingrid,

              Yes, it's too bad, in one sense, that HK isn't aware of his
              followers gullibility or lack of critical thinking... he would be
              having some good laughs! But, it's even sadder that HK isn't aware
              of his own delusions, gullibility, and lack if consciousness.
              Actually, maybe it's not so sad. If HK was more aware he might be
              more clever (a better con-man) in hiding these facts than he has
              been. Of course the Eckist ego, through the use of the "As If"
              effect, also tends to hide the Truth from Soul via delusion as well.

              Prometheus


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
              <ctecvie@y...> wrote:
              > Hello Mish and Prometheus!
              >
              > > Good post revealing this bit of the Gross/Klemp story! It is
              > > mentioned in both of Klemp's autobiographical books. Both books
              > are
              > > basically the same, but Klemp republishes many of his writings
              > under
              > > new titles--anyone notice that?
              > Oh yes - he keeps recycling and recycling things - and sometimes
              he
              > takes whole discourses and publishes them! I remember having
              noticed
              > that with a youth discourse series - it did make me wonder but
              that
              > was all at the time! :-) "The "modern prophet" is a recycling as
              > well ...
              >
              > > I did because I read all of his
              > > transcripts and some other books in a year's time. Much was
              > > extremely redundant! Why, did he do this? Well, it keeps people
              > > buying new books--keeps the money rolling in. I think it is an
              > > indicator of how easily brainwashed and misled people can be in
              > such
              > > situations. I wonder if Harold even chuckles to himself at how
              > > gullible people are when they keep spending time and money on
              his
              > > recycled books??
              >
              > It took me a bit longer to notice ... but finally I did through
              the
              > years. :-) Oh, I think Harold doesn't even notice the gullibility -

              > in a sense, it's sad because that way, he misses a good laugh from
              > time to time! ;-))
              > >
              > > One story he tells in both of his autobio-books is the one where
              > he
              > > was a very young boy and an adult made a joke with other men at
              > > little "Harold's" expense. It embarrassed Harold greatly, and it
              > > seems to this day, he has not gotten over it. He seems to hold a
              > lot
              > > of anger about it. I wonder why he can't reflect on it with
              > > adult "eyes?" Why does he continue to see it negatively instead
              of
              > > as a positive learning experience. The man just made a funny
              joke
              > to
              > > create laughter and fun with the group of farmers who were
              working
              > > together that one day. It was a social thing, and I'm sure the
              man
              > > did not realize that sensitive little Harold was so offended--
              and
              > > still is to this day!
              >
              > A good psychotherapeutic session would have had him rid of that -
              > but apparently he needs that because, were it otherwise, how could
              > he tell those stories? He needs something to tell - and perhaps
              > that's why anything related to psychology / psychotherapy is
              > regarded as much "lesser" than Eckankar ...
              > >
              > > This anger is definitely a flaw that has been long standing with
              > > Harold, and it explains why as L.E.M. he can so easily dish it
              out
              > > but can't take it. He demonstrates this angry behavior in some
              of
              > > his talks and writings (other stories)--and it also explains why
              > he
              > > comes down hard on some of his "miscreant" followers. It
              trickles
              > > down through the organization, as well, as H.I. leaders emulate
              > his
              > > behavior and mistreat other Eckists: the silent treatment,
              > shunning,
              > > taking away initiations and positions and so forth.
              >
              > There's a saying in my language that goes like that: as the
              master,
              > so the follower - it's easy to see in Eckankar! :-)
              > >
              > > Well, what an experience Eckankar has been! : )
              >
              > It definitely has been - and good that it "has been"! :-)
              >
              > Ingrid
            • Greg and Liz
              ... buying new books--keeps the money rolling in. I think it is an indicator of how easily brainwashed and misled people can be in such situations. *** I
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 19, 2005
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                mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:

                > Both books are basically the same, but Klemp republishes many of his writings under new titles--anyone notice that? 

                >snip<

                > Why, did he do this? Well, it keeps people
                buying new books--keeps the money rolling in. I think it is an
                indicator of how easily brainwashed and misled people can be in such situations.

                ***  I would have to say that Harold is not very good at authoring books!  He may have been an editor, but a writer he wasn't!  I also have to believe (and heard from mom who worked at esc for years) that the editors (who were establishes writes *some of them*) at esc recognized this in him and was able to work around his lack of skills by publishing his talks, and republishing his same ol shit, different title.....  don't forget he also created most of his stories from Initiate reports or stuff others wrote in about, in the hopes it would get published in the cult mystic news.   

                I never did see much spiritual "meat" to digest in his talks or books....  mostly slept through his seminar talks!  Mom used to say it was okay, since soul could still hear every word the mahanta spewed!   LOL

              • mishmisha9
                Well, what did we ever see in Harold then? Not good at writing and/or giving great talks? He certainly does not have charisma or looks either! LOL! It seems to
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 19, 2005
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                  Well, what did we ever see in Harold then? Not good at writing
                  and/or giving great talks? He certainly does not have charisma or
                  looks either! LOL! It seems to be a mystery!


                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Greg and Liz
                  <whitefeatherliz@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
                  > > Both books are basically the same, but Klemp republishes many of
                  his writings under new titles--anyone notice that?
                  >
                  > >snip<
                  >
                  > > Why, did he do this? Well, it keeps people
                  > buying new books--keeps the money rolling in. I think it is an
                  > indicator of how easily brainwashed and misled people can be in
                  such situations.
                  >
                  > *** I would have to say that Harold is not very good at authoring
                  books! He may have been an editor, but a writer he wasn't! I also
                  have to believe (and heard from mom who worked at esc for years)
                  that the editors (who were establishes writes *some of them*) at esc
                  recognized this in him and was able to work around his lack of
                  skills by publishing his talks, and republishing his same ol shit,
                  different title..... don't forget he also created most of his
                  stories from Initiate reports or stuff others wrote in about, in the
                  hopes it would get published in the cult mystic news.
                  >
                  > I never did see much spiritual "meat" to digest in his talks or
                  books.... mostly slept through his seminar talks! Mom used to say
                  it was okay, since soul could still hear every word the mahanta
                  spewed! LOL
                • Greg and Liz
                  ... *** I can only speak for myself; being raised in the cult from a young age, we were told that we are to follow who ever holds the rod of eck power at the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 20, 2005
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                    mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:

                    >Well, what did we ever see in Harold then? Not good at writing and/or giving great talks? He certainly does not have charisma or looks either! LOL! It seems to be a mystery!

                    *** I can only speak for myself;  being raised in the cult from a young age, we were told that we are to follow who ever holds the rod of eck power at the time.  Not to question why!  You know the hitch....  

                  • mishmisha9
                    Yeah, you were young and innocent! LOL! I don t have an excuse--I guess mine was a mental slip of some sort regarding right discrimination. Mish ... and/or
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jun 20, 2005
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                      Yeah, you were young and innocent! LOL! I don't have an excuse--I
                      guess mine was a mental slip of some sort regarding right
                      discrimination.

                      Mish

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Greg and Liz
                      <whitefeatherliz@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
                      > >Well, what did we ever see in Harold then? Not good at writing
                      and/or giving great talks? He certainly does not have charisma or
                      looks either! LOL! It seems to be a mystery!
                      >
                      >
                      > *** I can only speak for myself; being raised in the cult from a
                      young age, we were told that we are to follow who ever holds the rod
                      of eck power at the time. Not to question why! You know the hitch....
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