Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Comments on: "The Mystic World of Eckankar" June 2005

Expand Messages
  • prometheus_973
    Hi Again! It s funny how Eckists just tend to accept anything and everything that Klemp has to say. A true believer in Eckankar has accepted HK s position of
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 16, 2005
      Hi Again!

      It's funny how Eckists just tend to accept anything and everything
      that Klemp has to say. A true believer in Eckankar has accepted HK's
      position of authority over him/her. Therefore, the information HK
      has printed in his books, or other publications, is never questioned
      or critically analyzed. It seems that people tend to overlook
      possible and apparent contradictions as a matter of belief and
      faith. People want to believe, and will see contradictions in terms
      of paradoxes, spiritual tests, or on levels of consciousness beyond
      their limited comprehension. The Eckist seeks answers "As If" they
      already know the results. The delusions are shared, re-enforced, and
      are presented and maintained in a comforting structure.

      For instance: Klemp has stated that Eckankar's Nineth Initiation is
      only given on the inner planes. However, this is only partially
      true. The below criteria, as given in Eckankar's Master 4 Discourses
      Lesson 2 states that there are THREE STAGES to the NINETH!

      HOWEVER, "THE THIRD FINAL PART OF THE NINETH INITIATION OCCURS IN
      THE PHYSICAL WORLD." THEREFORE, HAROLD IS NOT BEING COMPLETELY
      ACCURATE. HK SHOULD STATE THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON BOTH THE INNER
      AND OUTER, OR THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON THE INNER AND IS CONFIRMED
      ON THE OUTER IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THE INITIATION.

      Actually, these types of errors and the confusion they cause (when
      noticed and not automatically accepted) are typical when the
      Eckankar saviors (Twitch, Gross and Klemp) make it up as they go
      along. Actually, it's so typical of con/cult behavior!

      Prometheus



      > Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
      parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
      Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
      imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
      spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
      final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."

      >
      > Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      Hi All, FYI: I decided to change the subject line in order to fit the topic better, so don t think you re seeing things if you ve already read this. It s
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 17, 2005
        Hi All,

        FYI: I decided to change the subject line in order to fit the topic
        better, so don't think you're "seeing things" if you've already read
        this.

        It's funny how Eckists just tend to accept anything and everything
        that Klemp has to say. A true believer in Eckankar has accepted HK's
        position of authority over him/her. Therefore, the information HK
        has printed in his books, or other publications, is never questioned
        or critically analyzed. It seems that people tend to overlook
        possible and apparent contradictions as a matter of belief and
        faith. People want to believe, and will see contradictions in terms
        of paradoxes, spiritual tests, or on levels of consciousness beyond
        their limited comprehension. The Eckist seeks answers "As If" they
        already know the results. The delusions are shared, re-enforced, and
        are presented and maintained in a comforting structure.

        For instance: Klemp has stated that Eckankar's Nineth Initiation is
        only given on the inner planes. However, this is only partially
        true. The below criteria, as given in Eckankar's Master 4 Discourses
        Lesson 2 states that there are THREE STAGES to the NINETH!

        HOWEVER, "THE THIRD FINAL PART OF THE NINETH INITIATION OCCURS IN
        THE PHYSICAL WORLD." THEREFORE, HAROLD IS NOT BEING COMPLETELY
        ACCURATE. HK SHOULD STATE THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON BOTH THE INNER
        AND OUTER, OR THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON THE INNER AND IS CONFIRMED
        ON THE OUTER IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THE INITIATION.

        Actually, these types of errors and the confusion they cause (when
        noticed and not automatically accepted) are typical when the
        Eckankar saviors (Twitch, Gross and Klemp) make it up as they go
        along. Actually, it's so typical of con/cult behavior!

        Prometheus

        p.s.
        Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
        parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
        Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
        imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
        spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
        final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."
      • prometheus_973
        Hello All, FYI: Once again I have changed the subject line in order to be able to find this topic easier for future reference. I checked out the source of my
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 17, 2005
          Hello All,

          FYI: Once again I have changed the subject line in order to be able
          to find this topic easier for future reference.

          I checked out the source of my comments and found it in HK's 1987
          copyright of "Soul Travelers of the Far Country." On page 142 Marge
          says to Harold, 'Don't worry'... 'You can always be an ECK Master,
          even if you can't be the Living ECK Master.' On page 143 Harold
          states that, "More than once my wife tried in vain to cheer me up by
          saying that it is a blessing to become an ECK Master; why not set my
          sights on that?" Harold also states that, "From then on I no longer
          spoke about my inner experiences, and at the time, this strained our
          marriage badly."

          Actually, I was wrong about the 9th Initiation date. Harold seems to
          jump around a lot and specific information is hard to find without
          extensive reading. However, HK received his 8th (Inner) Initiation
          on June 14, 1980 and the real outer one on January 27, 1981 (page
          140). On pages 186-187 HK claims to have received the 9th Initiation
          on July 22, 1981 (on the Inner), and states that, "Initiations in
          ECK beyond the 8th are only given on the inner planes." Did he
          confirm receiving the 9th on the inner with Darwin Gross the 972th
          L.E.M. and Mahanta? HK seems to leave out this little detail. Maybe
          Graham and Ford should have kept silent and just lived in the ECK
          delusion of inner mastership!

          But, wait! I seem to remember that in the Master 4 Discourses Lesson
          2 was titled, "The Ninth Initiation." Hmmmm. Well it states that it
          happens on the inner and that all of the 8ths (other planes included
          and from other parts of the physical universe) appear as either of
          the white or yellow race as they gather at this special spiritual
          retreat.

          "White signifies the active path of the extrovert" (they still have
          egos?). "Yellow stands for its counterpoint: the path of indirection
          (not passivity), the method of subtlety rather than easy-to-discern
          outer behavior." Wow, HK really had to go into detail for the
          indirect (nonreactive) yellow race thing! The HUK sound wave is sent
          to the candidate for the 9th Initiation. "In the last phase the
          Mahanta, the Living ECK Master confirms the initiation by some outer
          means. Oops, I guess Graham should have just kept silent and waited
          and waited and waited... just like others do for that outer
          confirmation. As above so below, or is it really as below so above?
          Actually, does an above (up) and below (down) really make sense!
          This is just more eckie brain washing just like the acting "AS IF"
          thing is!

          Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
          parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
          Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
          imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
          spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
          final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."
          Harold goes on to remind ECKists that, "The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad,
          Book Two, says: 'The Maulani is the one who sacrifices everything
          for his fellow ECKists, for if it is necessary for him to put
          himself in debt for them, or share their cell in prison, it must be
          done." Hey Harold, what ever happened to self-responsibility and
          karmic lessons for these other ECKists? And, what else might you ask
          them to sacrifice?

          Prometheus
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.