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Re: Comments on: "The Mystic World of Eckankar" June 2005

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  • prometheus_973
    Hey it s me again! I checked out the source of my comments and found it in HK s 1987 copyright of Soul Travelers of the Far Country. On page 142 Marge says
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 15, 2005
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      Hey it's me again!

      I checked out the source of my comments and found it in HK's 1987
      copyright of "Soul Travelers of the Far Country." On page 142 Marge
      says to Harold, 'Don't worry'... 'You can always be an ECK Master,
      even if you can't be the Living ECK Master.' On page 143 Harold
      states that, "More than once my wife tried in vain to cheer me up by
      saying that it is a blessing to become an ECK Master; why not set my
      sights on that?" Harold also states that, "From then on I no longer
      spoke about my inner experiences, and at the time, this strained our
      marriage badly."

      Actually, I was wrong about the 9th Initiation date. Harold seems to
      jump around a lot and specific information is hard to find without
      extensive reading. However, HK received his 8th (Inner) Initiation
      on June 14, 1980 and the real outer one on January 27, 1981 (page
      140). On pages 186-187 HK claims to have received the 9th Initiation
      on July 22, 1981 (on the Inner), and states that, "Initiations in
      ECK beyond the 8th are only given on the inner planes." Did he
      confirm receiving the 9th on the inner with Darwin Gross the 972th
      L.E.M. and Mahanta? HK seems to leave out this little detail. Maybe
      Graham and Ford should have kept silent and just lived in the ECK
      delusion of inner mastership! Set 'em up boys!

      But, wait! I seem to remember that in the Master 4 Discourses lesson
      2 was titled, "The Ninth Initiation." Hmmmm. Well it states that it
      happens on the inner and that all of the 8ths (other planes included
      and from other parts of the physical universe) appear as either of
      the white or yellow race as they gather at this special spiritual
      retreat.

      "White signifies the active path of the extrovert" (they still have
      egos?). "Yellow stands for its counterpoint: the path of indirection
      (not passivity), the method of subtlety rather than easy-to-discern
      outer behavior." Wow, HK really had to go into detail for the
      indirect (nonreactive) yellow race thing! The HUK sound wave is sent
      to the candidate for the 9th Initiation. "In the last phase the
      Mahanta, the Living ECK Master confirms the initiation by some outer
      means. Oops, I guess Graham should have just kept silent and waited
      and waited and waited... just like others do for that outer
      confirmation. As above so below, or is it really as below so above?
      Actually, does an above (up) and below (down) really make sense!
      This is just more eckie brain washing just like the acting "AS IF"
      thing is!

      Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
      parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
      Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
      imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
      spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
      final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."
      Harold goes on to remind ECKists that, "The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad,
      Book Two, says: 'The Maulani is the one who sacrifices everything
      for his fellow ECKists, for if it is necessary for him to put
      himself in debt for them, or share their cell in prison, it must be
      done." Hey Harold, what ever happened to self-responsibility and
      karmic lessons for these other ECKists? And, what else might you ask
      them to sacrifice?

      Prometheus



      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
      > Hi Leigh,
      >
      > Yes I can. However, I'll have to look through some books first in
      > order to give the exact quote, book title, and page number. Harold
      > himself mentions what Marge had said to him. Harold and Darwin had
      > been meeting now and then in a Sound Proof Dark Room where Harold
      > worked when developing prints for Eckankar publications. This
      event
      > with Marge took place after Darwin had given Harold the 9th
      > Initiation in preparation for him to take over as L.E.M. in 1980.
      > However, the power transfer was delayed for one year and Harold
      was
      > disappointed and was acting impatient. Marge said to Harold
      > something like, Why can't you just be happy with being an ECK
      Master?
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh"
      > <lgrif@m...> wrote:
      > > HK was in a hurry to become the L.E.M.
      > > > (via Darwin Gross) according to his first wife,
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi Prometheus:
      > > Could you expand on this a little bit?
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Again! It s funny how Eckists just tend to accept anything and everything that Klemp has to say. A true believer in Eckankar has accepted HK s position of
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 16, 2005
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        Hi Again!

        It's funny how Eckists just tend to accept anything and everything
        that Klemp has to say. A true believer in Eckankar has accepted HK's
        position of authority over him/her. Therefore, the information HK
        has printed in his books, or other publications, is never questioned
        or critically analyzed. It seems that people tend to overlook
        possible and apparent contradictions as a matter of belief and
        faith. People want to believe, and will see contradictions in terms
        of paradoxes, spiritual tests, or on levels of consciousness beyond
        their limited comprehension. The Eckist seeks answers "As If" they
        already know the results. The delusions are shared, re-enforced, and
        are presented and maintained in a comforting structure.

        For instance: Klemp has stated that Eckankar's Nineth Initiation is
        only given on the inner planes. However, this is only partially
        true. The below criteria, as given in Eckankar's Master 4 Discourses
        Lesson 2 states that there are THREE STAGES to the NINETH!

        HOWEVER, "THE THIRD FINAL PART OF THE NINETH INITIATION OCCURS IN
        THE PHYSICAL WORLD." THEREFORE, HAROLD IS NOT BEING COMPLETELY
        ACCURATE. HK SHOULD STATE THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON BOTH THE INNER
        AND OUTER, OR THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON THE INNER AND IS CONFIRMED
        ON THE OUTER IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THE INITIATION.

        Actually, these types of errors and the confusion they cause (when
        noticed and not automatically accepted) are typical when the
        Eckankar saviors (Twitch, Gross and Klemp) make it up as they go
        along. Actually, it's so typical of con/cult behavior!

        Prometheus



        > Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
        parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
        Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
        imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
        spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
        final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."

        >
        > Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        Hi All, FYI: I decided to change the subject line in order to fit the topic better, so don t think you re seeing things if you ve already read this. It s
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 17, 2005
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          Hi All,

          FYI: I decided to change the subject line in order to fit the topic
          better, so don't think you're "seeing things" if you've already read
          this.

          It's funny how Eckists just tend to accept anything and everything
          that Klemp has to say. A true believer in Eckankar has accepted HK's
          position of authority over him/her. Therefore, the information HK
          has printed in his books, or other publications, is never questioned
          or critically analyzed. It seems that people tend to overlook
          possible and apparent contradictions as a matter of belief and
          faith. People want to believe, and will see contradictions in terms
          of paradoxes, spiritual tests, or on levels of consciousness beyond
          their limited comprehension. The Eckist seeks answers "As If" they
          already know the results. The delusions are shared, re-enforced, and
          are presented and maintained in a comforting structure.

          For instance: Klemp has stated that Eckankar's Nineth Initiation is
          only given on the inner planes. However, this is only partially
          true. The below criteria, as given in Eckankar's Master 4 Discourses
          Lesson 2 states that there are THREE STAGES to the NINETH!

          HOWEVER, "THE THIRD FINAL PART OF THE NINETH INITIATION OCCURS IN
          THE PHYSICAL WORLD." THEREFORE, HAROLD IS NOT BEING COMPLETELY
          ACCURATE. HK SHOULD STATE THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON BOTH THE INNER
          AND OUTER, OR THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON THE INNER AND IS CONFIRMED
          ON THE OUTER IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THE INITIATION.

          Actually, these types of errors and the confusion they cause (when
          noticed and not automatically accepted) are typical when the
          Eckankar saviors (Twitch, Gross and Klemp) make it up as they go
          along. Actually, it's so typical of con/cult behavior!

          Prometheus

          p.s.
          Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
          parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
          Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
          imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
          spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
          final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."
        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, FYI: Once again I have changed the subject line in order to be able to find this topic easier for future reference. I checked out the source of my
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 17, 2005
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            Hello All,

            FYI: Once again I have changed the subject line in order to be able
            to find this topic easier for future reference.

            I checked out the source of my comments and found it in HK's 1987
            copyright of "Soul Travelers of the Far Country." On page 142 Marge
            says to Harold, 'Don't worry'... 'You can always be an ECK Master,
            even if you can't be the Living ECK Master.' On page 143 Harold
            states that, "More than once my wife tried in vain to cheer me up by
            saying that it is a blessing to become an ECK Master; why not set my
            sights on that?" Harold also states that, "From then on I no longer
            spoke about my inner experiences, and at the time, this strained our
            marriage badly."

            Actually, I was wrong about the 9th Initiation date. Harold seems to
            jump around a lot and specific information is hard to find without
            extensive reading. However, HK received his 8th (Inner) Initiation
            on June 14, 1980 and the real outer one on January 27, 1981 (page
            140). On pages 186-187 HK claims to have received the 9th Initiation
            on July 22, 1981 (on the Inner), and states that, "Initiations in
            ECK beyond the 8th are only given on the inner planes." Did he
            confirm receiving the 9th on the inner with Darwin Gross the 972th
            L.E.M. and Mahanta? HK seems to leave out this little detail. Maybe
            Graham and Ford should have kept silent and just lived in the ECK
            delusion of inner mastership!

            But, wait! I seem to remember that in the Master 4 Discourses Lesson
            2 was titled, "The Ninth Initiation." Hmmmm. Well it states that it
            happens on the inner and that all of the 8ths (other planes included
            and from other parts of the physical universe) appear as either of
            the white or yellow race as they gather at this special spiritual
            retreat.

            "White signifies the active path of the extrovert" (they still have
            egos?). "Yellow stands for its counterpoint: the path of indirection
            (not passivity), the method of subtlety rather than easy-to-discern
            outer behavior." Wow, HK really had to go into detail for the
            indirect (nonreactive) yellow race thing! The HUK sound wave is sent
            to the candidate for the 9th Initiation. "In the last phase the
            Mahanta, the Living ECK Master confirms the initiation by some outer
            means. Oops, I guess Graham should have just kept silent and waited
            and waited and waited... just like others do for that outer
            confirmation. As above so below, or is it really as below so above?
            Actually, does an above (up) and below (down) really make sense!
            This is just more eckie brain washing just like the acting "AS IF"
            thing is!

            Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
            parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
            Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
            imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
            spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
            final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."
            Harold goes on to remind ECKists that, "The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad,
            Book Two, says: 'The Maulani is the one who sacrifices everything
            for his fellow ECKists, for if it is necessary for him to put
            himself in debt for them, or share their cell in prison, it must be
            done." Hey Harold, what ever happened to self-responsibility and
            karmic lessons for these other ECKists? And, what else might you ask
            them to sacrifice?

            Prometheus
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