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Re: AAARGH!

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  • mishmisha9
    Hi, Diva! Of course, I remember your earlier posts concerning your Eckist husband. Your frustration and concern is very understandable, but it seems, to me,
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 15, 2005
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      Hi, Diva!

      Of course, I remember your earlier posts concerning your Eckist
      husband. Your frustration and concern is very understandable, but it
      seems, to me, that your husband's troubling issues have probably
      stock-piled while being an Eckist. Nothing has worked for him,
      perhaps, because like many people, whether Eckist or not, he would
      like to surrender his problems over to someone else. In your
      husband's case, as is taught in Eckankar, to the Mahanta.

      So he is wanting to have an ESA session with an Eckankar Spiritual
      Aide, who would be an H.I. who has a certain Eckankar training,
      which really just means more brain-washing for your husband. Plus,
      if he reveals a lot of his personal issues (alchohol, anger, etc.)
      to this ESA, it can be used against him in terms of maintaining his
      initiation level or receiving a higher initiation, so this will
      frustrate him even more. Also, some ESAs are not above gossiping,
      sharing the personal information that is told to them in
      confidentiality with other H.I.s, the RESA, or even at 12 Step
      meetings where other Eckists might be present. If your husband is
      not an H.I. already, he will be taking the longer road to reach that
      level.

      Often arrogance is just a cover-up for lack of confidence. As much
      as you want to help your husband, beyond being supportive, in the
      final analysis (ultimately) he will have to find his way in or out
      of Eckankar.

      I'm glad that you have found our group, Eckankar Survivors
      Anonymous, and hope that we can help you as you deal with the
      problems emitting from your husband's confusion about his chosen
      spiritual path. Hopefully, he will wake up to the truth. But,
      perhaps, he never will.

      Best wishes,
      Mish



      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "divawhitt"
      <divawhitt@y...> wrote:
      > I don't know if anyone remembers my previous post about my eckie
      > husband and his personal crises but, he's decided he needs help
      from
      > someone other than me. Help dealing with alcohol, anger-issues,
      > depression, etc. He's been telling me that he's looking for a
      > therapist to work these things out. I found his "list" of
      > therapists yesterday and there's all of one name on it.
      Says "call
      > D** to set up RESA"...I wanted to vomit!
      > I've always believed that your faith should make your life more
      > complete, instill a deep sense of peace in your life, and provide
      a
      > sanctuary for spiritual renewal. This man is on a constant search
      > (even though he apparently is too blind to realize it)
      for "things"
      > that will make his life better (exercise equipment, books, food,
      you
      > name it). He is forever griping and complaining about how
      difficult
      > things are for him (as if no one else ever experiences these
      > difficulties). Yet, he refuses to step back and examine the one
      > true spiritual difference between him and most people he knows - a
      > faith that sustains, supports, encourages, strengthens, drives
      from
      > the very smallest particles of our beings. Whether that faith is
      > Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, or... those of us around him from
      > these faiths each find peace in our convictions yet he still walks
      > around with this incredibly superior attitude.
      > Sorry to vent here but I had to blow off steam somewhere. Thanks
      > for listening.
      >
      > W
    • Greg and Liz
      ... *** I would point out too, (I was an ESA for many years!) these ESA s Do not have the credentials, licensing or training to handle the issues of alcohol,
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 16, 2005
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        mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:


        >So he is wanting to have an ESA session with an Eckankar Spiritual Aide, who would be an H.I. who has a certain Eckankar training, which really just means more brain-washing for your husband.

        *** I would point out too, (I was an ESA for many years!)  these ESA's Do not have the credentials, licensing or training to handle the issues of alcohol, anger etc, to council anyone!!!!  If this person is ethical in the slightest, they will advise Diva's husband to seek outside help for those issues!  And as Mish wrote, this very personal and sensitive information he will share with the ESA, will and does go against the chela. 

        Here is an example of how it will work;  picture all of the local H.I.'s and ESA's gathered at an H.I. meeting to discuss "business".  The main office has sent a computer generated list of those that will be considered for their next initiation ( I was an initiator for years too! ) the RESA will have a copy of the list handed out to everyone in the meeting, they will go down the list and name off those on it. The group's job is to vote yes or no for the next initiation.  The next initiation in question is listed next to the name.  If you know anything about that person and feel they shouldn't receive the initiation, the person is asked to list the reason why a person votes no.  Of course if a person wishes to give a reason for their yes vote it is listed as well....  So much for Harji and his Mahantaness knowing everything! ;-) 

        If you ask any of the H.I.'s in the area how this works, notice their struggle to answer the question, or their avoidance all together to answer!  RED FLAGS should be going up.....

      • Greg and Liz
        Greg and Liz wrote: this very personal and sensitive information he will share with the ESA, will and does go against the
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 16, 2005
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          Greg and Liz <whitefeatherliz@...> wrote:


           <snip> this very personal and sensitive information he will share with the ESA, will and does go against the chela. 

          ***  Thought I should also mention....  for those that have serious issues and keep it from the ESA's or other eckies, well what do you think happens to these people?   They end up becoming H.I.'s...     with no one aware of their "issues" within the org they become some of the leaders of the group.  Imagine the many forms of abuse going on....  well, you don't have to imagine, many of us have seen it.  Look at the klumpster for example!  

          I also wanted to comment on the topic of Marg asking Harj if being just a master was good enough (sorry I deleted the post so may not have the wording correct).  Anyway, his reaction seems to me, to show signs of a mental / manic disorder.  Yet he twists it around to sound as if a person should never share their "specialness" with others because it creates negative energy or stops the event from happening....  paranoia, delusion, grandiose ideals, feeling godlike.  Is this a Bipolar disorder???  Instead of going into contemplation, they should be going into counseling....    

        • mishmisha9
          Thanks for substantiating what I had written! Nice that it is coming from one who has first hand experience since I had only heard these things from other
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 16, 2005
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            Thanks for substantiating what I had written! Nice that it is coming
            from one who has first hand experience since I had only heard these
            things from other H.I.s. Of course, I did experience the coldness
            and unloving behavior from some superior, "spiritually advanced"
            H.I.s--which really was abusive and went against the teachings of
            being loving to others. Another clue that something was "rotten in
            Denmark!"

            Mish

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Greg and Liz
            <whitefeatherliz@y...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
            >
            > >So he is wanting to have an ESA session with an Eckankar
            Spiritual Aide, who would be an H.I. who has a certain Eckankar
            training, which really just means more brain-washing for your
            husband.
            >
            > *** I would point out too, (I was an ESA for many years!) these
            ESA's Do not have the credentials, licensing or training to handle
            the issues of alcohol, anger etc, to council anyone!!!! If this
            person is ethical in the slightest, they will advise Diva's husband
            to seek outside help for those issues! And as Mish wrote, this very
            personal and sensitive information he will share with the ESA, will
            and does go against the chela.
            >
            > Here is an example of how it will work; picture all of the local
            H.I.'s and ESA's gathered at an H.I. meeting to discuss "business".
            The main office has sent a computer generated list of those that
            will be considered for their next initiation ( I was an initiator
            for years too! ) the RESA will have a copy of the list handed out to
            everyone in the meeting, they will go down the list and name off
            those on it. The group's job is to vote yes or no for the next
            initiation. The next initiation in question is listed next to the
            name. If you know anything about that person and feel they
            shouldn't receive the initiation, the person is asked to list the
            reason why a person votes no. Of course if a person wishes to give
            a reason for their yes vote it is listed as well.... So much for
            Harji and his Mahantaness knowing everything! ;-)
            >
            > If you ask any of the H.I.'s in the area how this works, notice
            their struggle to answer the question, or their avoidance all
            together to answer! RED FLAGS should be going up.....
          • prometheus_973
            Hi Liz, You re right about how initiations are handled for HK (the all knowing mahanta). Some RESAs like to delegate and are not very hands on and will allow
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 16, 2005
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              Hi Liz,

              You're right about how initiations are handled for HK (the "all
              knowing" mahanta). Some RESAs like to delegate and are not very
              hands on and will allow certain "chosen ones" to deal with
              the "list" of those being considered for "promotion." Other RESAs
              (especially those over multiple states or countries) will usually
              call local H.I.s for the scoop on those in their local areas who are
              on the promotion list. It is logistically difficult to conduct
              meetings where all area H.I.s are present. My one RESA would call me
              and ask about certain individuals, and it was very difficult for me
              to "rat" out people. Sometimes he would do a conference call and we
              would have to share our comments with everyone on the line... this
              felt very uncomfortable. However, it was explained to us that
              as Co-Workers for the L.E.M./Mahanta that divulging this information
              only at this time and only for this purpose was not harmful to
              either those on the list or to the rest of us... so no harm no foul!
              Talk is cheap isn't it!

              Prometheus


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Greg and Liz
              <whitefeatherliz@y...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
              >
              > >So he is wanting to have an ESA session with an Eckankar
              Spiritual Aide, who would be an H.I. who has a certain Eckankar
              training, which really just means more brain-washing for your
              husband.
              >
              > *** I would point out too, (I was an ESA for many years!) these
              ESA's Do not have the credentials, licensing or training to handle
              the issues of alcohol, anger etc, to council anyone!!!! If this
              person is ethical in the slightest, they will advise Diva's husband
              to seek outside help for those issues! And as Mish wrote, this very
              personal and sensitive information he will share with the ESA, will
              and does go against the chela.
              >
              > Here is an example of how it will work; picture all of the local
              H.I.'s and ESA's gathered at an H.I. meeting to discuss "business".
              The main office has sent a computer generated list of those that
              will be considered for their next initiation ( I was an initiator
              for years too! ) the RESA will have a copy of the list handed out to
              everyone in the meeting, they will go down the list and name off
              those on it. The group's job is to vote yes or no for the next
              initiation. The next initiation in question is listed next to the
              name. If you know anything about that person and feel they
              shouldn't receive the initiation, the person is asked to list the
              reason why a person votes no. Of course if a person wishes to give
              a reason for their yes vote it is listed as well.... So much for
              Harji and his Mahantaness knowing everything! ;-)
              >
              > If you ask any of the H.I.'s in the area how this works, notice
              their struggle to answer the question, or their avoidance all
              together to answer! RED FLAGS should be going up.....
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