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Twitchell, Gross and Klemp... LIARS ALL !

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Again, I thought I would comment to: these ideals or rules that Twitchell adopted and altered and shared in the Two Holy Books of Eckankar (the Shariyats);
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 5, 2006
      Hi Again,
      I thought I would comment to: these ideals or rules that Twitchell
      adopted and altered and shared in the Two Holy Books of Eckankar
      (the Shariyats); to what Gross also promoted; to what Klemp defines
      in his Eckankar Lexicon, as well as, enforces through his books,
      articles, talks, and Guidelines.


      Prometheus wrote:

      Hello All,
      This Manu Samhita, The Code of Ethics is a 1972 Eckankar brochure. I
      thought I'd share Four of the Sixteen Rules that still apply today.
      First, however, I'll give some background and definitions for the
      Manu Samhita and the other terms used.

      From "The Path of the Masters" page 404:

      "As evil tendencies became more and more manifest in society, some
      regulations had to be adopted to protect society. Then a system of
      laws was worked out to suit conditions. Manu became the great law
      giver to India, as Moses did for the Jews. Laws were made suitable
      to the people and the times. A divine 'Danda' was established. In
      MANU SAMHITA (VII: 14-32) the Danta is set forth as the concrete
      will of God, the foundation and support of society. It is the corner-
      stone, the pillar of the state. IT IS AN OLD TRICK OF PRIESTS AND
      KINGS TO TEACH THE MOB THAT WHATEVER THEY GIVE OUT IS 'THE WILL OF
      GOD.' It makes a better impression. DANDA serves the will of God by
      restraining the evil tendencies of men, protecting the weak, and to
      some extent developing the higher impulses by inculcating higher
      ideals. [my caps]


      ### I find it interesting that all three (Twitchell, Gross, and
      Klemp) use the same HINDU name of MANU SAMHITA for a totally
      different document and set of rules!


      These following quotes are from Klemp's Eckankar Lexicon (that were
      taken from PT's Eckankar Dictionary):

      DANDA - "Self-discipline; sometimes called the righteous law. It
      treats the Divine Rights of people as well as kings; works both
      ways, neither can trespass upon the other's rights." (pg.43)

      LAW of MANU - "Hindu code of laws which established a caste system;
      part of the evolution of social conscience." (pg.134)

      MANU SAMHITA - "The Eckankar code of ethics." (pg.134)


      ### See, MANU created the Caste System! How do these Eckankar Code
      of Ethics resemble the caste system? However, there is a Hierarchy
      of Initiation and of Position within the RESA Hierarchy. This is a
      Caste System, of sorts, because Eckists are born into certain karmic
      situations. Females, according to dogma, cannot become the
      LEM/Mahanta (maybe a Co-LEM and wannabe Mahanta if you're married to
      the LEM and "Full" Mahanta), and only a handful of Eckists will ever
      make it to the 8th, and the 9th is kept secret or else you lose it!


      CODE of ETHICS - "See Ethics, Law of; Manu Samhita" (pg.31)

      LAW of ETHICS - "That which is not selfish, which is good for the
      whole, which will not harm one and will do justice for all
      concerned; actions for the benefit of all." (pg.68)


      ### I really don't see that Klemp is unselfish, is concerned with
      Justice for All, Does Not do harm to others, and thereby follows the
      LAW of ETHICS. When HK calls some ECKists 'losers,' chastises a
      Third Temporary Postal Clerk, or mentions that a recent former
      LEM/Mahanta would have the consciousness of a Fifth Initiate today
      (07/2006 Letter of Light), instructs H.I.s not to use IF or BUT and
      then does so himself it clearly shows that these words and actions
      tell me that he just gives lip service to the Spiritual Laws and to
      the Law of Ethics! Would a real Master be so shallow? NO!


      THE FOLLOWING IS FROM: "ECKANKAR PRESENTS: THE MANU SAMHITA The Code
      of Ethics" ECKANKAR The Ancient Science of Soul Travel

      #10 - "One must remember that if at anytime after coming into ECK he
      decides to drop out of the path, he will generally meet with greater
      hardships because of his reluctance and lack of interest. It would
      have been better had he never taken the steps to become an ECK
      chela. In other words, he brings spiritual injury to himself by
      going into the spiritual realms and then dropping back into the
      lower worlds of the negative again. Sooner or later, he must start
      all over again."


      ### Well, we once again see the threats! And yet, many ECKists close
      their eyes to this. Also, it seems that a chela's 'reluctance and
      lack of interest' lead to these 'hardships.' Maybe the 'reluctance'
      and 'lack of interest' is due to the behaviour of Klemp's H.I.s that
      are supposed to be "Higher" in Consciousness, or to all those
      Guidelines and Missionary/Vahana/Service requirements of time and
      money. Actually, many leave Eckankar and reject the Klempster
      because we have discovered the distortions, fraud and lies behind
      the whole scam from day one!


      #11 - "When some chelas enter upon the path of ECK, they seem to
      think that it is necessary to meet with the Master in person and
      present him with an amazing amount of questions. No questions are
      necessary, nor the reading of books or jumping to conclusions. Soon
      the chela finds, IF he continues on the path, that every question
      which comes into his mind is answered in a surprisingly easy way.
      The Master is ALWAYS PATIENT BUT never does he in any way reply
      directly to questions; he leaves this to the inner communication
      that he establishes with the chela at the time the chela came into
      ECK." [my caps]


      ### Actually, none of these three guys have been patient with people
      all that much! Paul did talk with people, shook hands, etc. to give
      the darshan out and even gave Eck-Vidya readings for $200 or more a
      pop! Darwin did some Eck-Vidya readings too I think and would sign
      books, record albums, and shake hands at times. Klemp started out by
      shaking hands at major seminars and then stopped after a few years.
      He did talk with people and shook hands and even gave hugs on rare
      ocassions at regionals or campouts. However, that all stopped over
      15 years ago. BTW - The Catch-22 Rule applies to outer questions
      being answered via "inner communication." ECKists just make up or
      dream up what they want to hear and that's their (distorted)
      reality.


      #13 - "Some persons are apt to talk negatively or criticize ECK
      without thinking. They should know that to criticize or talk
      negatively about the ECK or the Master, or to hold any overt or
      covert negative attitude toward either, will bring swift reprisal.
      When anyone sends out such vibrations, they cannot do any harm
      because the Master is always shielded in a protective coat of light.
      The vibrations will return to the sender, and he receives the full
      blast of his own actions."


      ### Many do tell the Truth about Eckankar and criticize the org due
      to thinking! What I find interesting is that these comments are
      directed to chelas and not really to those outside of the rules,
      guidelines, and control devices (possible initiations) of Eckankar.
      BTW - If the Master (LEM/Mahanta) is always shielded from negativity
      by a 'coat of light' why does the ESC Staff put Only H.I.s in the
      FRONT ROW at the EWWS and other major seminars to "protect" Klemp
      from Negative Vibrations! This has been done for over Twenty Years!


      #15 - "Many request the Master to find their lost relatives; to help
      them change jobs; to heal them; to get a better position in life; to
      give them better karma; to change their brothers, sisters, sons,
      husbands, or wives to suit themselves; and a few million other
      things. BUT the Master is not a reformer, nor is he interested in
      social conditions, and he is not affected by the human state and its
      desires. He is concerned with his single mission in this world; to
      gather up Souls and return them to their heavenly home again. Do not
      expect him to change the world and wipe out the conditions which
      made suffering here for all. This is not his duty nor his mission."


      ### Klemp now has ECKists do these things or ask for this or that on
      the "inner" to the Mahanta. Of course, once again, if the chela
      doesn't get what they want or doesn't have the protection or the
      health then it's their fault (Catch-22). It always helps to
      rationalize too! For example, if you're in a car wreck and you
      escape with your life then you were protected by the Mahanta. Never
      mind that thousands of others that were in car wrecks or spin outs
      were never injured or even had vehicle damage! If chelas were really
      protected they would never have any car damage or physical injury!
      Therefore, ECKists shouldn't give credit to Klemp for allowing them
      to still live and breathe! This is the same brain-washing and dogma
      that all religions and cults give to their members. Why can't
      ECKists see the similarities? The tricks of the ego (vanity) via
      having that 'superior normal' view due to higher initiation numbers
      create just part of the delusion.


      My question is: What's the difference between this 1972 POV by
      Darwin Gross (972nd LEM/Mahanta) and the present POV of Harold
      Klemp (973rd LEM/Mahanta)?


      ### The answer to the above question is... There is no real
      difference, except, in their personalities!


      Prometheus
      BTW- Feel free to make comments everyone!
    • Non ekster
      Here s a quote from The Spiritual Notebook by Paul Twitchell, P. 81. It is very typical of these eckankult masters of deception. What would a religion be if it
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 9, 2006
        Here's a quote from The Spiritual Notebook by Paul Twitchell, P. 81.
        It is very typical of these eckankult masters of deception. What would
        a religion be if it did not have a few threats thrown in for good
        measure. lol It's all just a control tactic, mind/behavior manipulation.

        Non

        "...
        Many simply do not know or understand the nature of the living ECK
        Master and will take it upon themselves to be snide with him.

        They likewise do not understand the troubles that befall them as a
        conseqence of their overt and covert attempts to belittle or ridicule
        the teachings of the blessed ECK. For some reason, they believe that
        they are above such things simply because they have read a few books
        or studied under certain teachers and pseudo-masters. Even the most
        simple lies will bring about a quick result which is not of a pleasant
        nature..."

        THE ABOVE QUOTE IS A JUST A LIE AND COMPLETELY FALSE. THEY ARE ALL
        PSUEDO-MASTERS! (Twitchell, Gross, Klemp)
        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Again,
        > I thought I would comment to: these ideals or rules that Twitchell
        > adopted and altered and shared in the Two Holy Books of Eckankar
        > (the Shariyats); to what Gross also promoted; to what Klemp defines
        > in his Eckankar Lexicon, as well as, enforces through his books,
        > articles, talks, and Guidelines.
        >
        >
        > Prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > This Manu Samhita, The Code of Ethics is a 1972 Eckankar brochure. I
        > thought I'd share Four of the Sixteen Rules that still apply today.
        > First, however, I'll give some background and definitions for the
        > Manu Samhita and the other terms used.
        >
        > From "The Path of the Masters" page 404:
        >
        > "As evil tendencies became more and more manifest in society, some
        > regulations had to be adopted to protect society. Then a system of
        > laws was worked out to suit conditions. Manu became the great law
        > giver to India, as Moses did for the Jews. Laws were made suitable
        > to the people and the times. A divine 'Danda' was established. In
        > MANU SAMHITA (VII: 14-32) the Danta is set forth as the concrete
        > will of God, the foundation and support of society. It is the corner-
        > stone, the pillar of the state. IT IS AN OLD TRICK OF PRIESTS AND
        > KINGS TO TEACH THE MOB THAT WHATEVER THEY GIVE OUT IS 'THE WILL OF
        > GOD.' It makes a better impression. DANDA serves the will of God by
        > restraining the evil tendencies of men, protecting the weak, and to
        > some extent developing the higher impulses by inculcating higher
        > ideals. [my caps]
        >
        >
        > ### I find it interesting that all three (Twitchell, Gross, and
        > Klemp) use the same HINDU name of MANU SAMHITA for a totally
        > different document and set of rules!
        >
        >
        > These following quotes are from Klemp's Eckankar Lexicon (that were
        > taken from PT's Eckankar Dictionary):
        >
        > DANDA - "Self-discipline; sometimes called the righteous law. It
        > treats the Divine Rights of people as well as kings; works both
        > ways, neither can trespass upon the other's rights." (pg.43)
        >
        > LAW of MANU - "Hindu code of laws which established a caste system;
        > part of the evolution of social conscience." (pg.134)
        >
        > MANU SAMHITA - "The Eckankar code of ethics." (pg.134)
        >
        >
        > ### See, MANU created the Caste System! How do these Eckankar Code
        > of Ethics resemble the caste system? However, there is a Hierarchy
        > of Initiation and of Position within the RESA Hierarchy. This is a
        > Caste System, of sorts, because Eckists are born into certain karmic
        > situations. Females, according to dogma, cannot become the
        > LEM/Mahanta (maybe a Co-LEM and wannabe Mahanta if you're married to
        > the LEM and "Full" Mahanta), and only a handful of Eckists will ever
        > make it to the 8th, and the 9th is kept secret or else you lose it!
        >
        >
        > CODE of ETHICS - "See Ethics, Law of; Manu Samhita" (pg.31)
        >
        > LAW of ETHICS - "That which is not selfish, which is good for the
        > whole, which will not harm one and will do justice for all
        > concerned; actions for the benefit of all." (pg.68)
        >
        >
        > ### I really don't see that Klemp is unselfish, is concerned with
        > Justice for All, Does Not do harm to others, and thereby follows the
        > LAW of ETHICS. When HK calls some ECKists 'losers,' chastises a
        > Third Temporary Postal Clerk, or mentions that a recent former
        > LEM/Mahanta would have the consciousness of a Fifth Initiate today
        > (07/2006 Letter of Light), instructs H.I.s not to use IF or BUT and
        > then does so himself it clearly shows that these words and actions
        > tell me that he just gives lip service to the Spiritual Laws and to
        > the Law of Ethics! Would a real Master be so shallow? NO!
        >
        >
        > THE FOLLOWING IS FROM: "ECKANKAR PRESENTS: THE MANU SAMHITA The Code
        > of Ethics" ECKANKAR The Ancient Science of Soul Travel
        >
        > #10 - "One must remember that if at anytime after coming into ECK he
        > decides to drop out of the path, he will generally meet with greater
        > hardships because of his reluctance and lack of interest. It would
        > have been better had he never taken the steps to become an ECK
        > chela. In other words, he brings spiritual injury to himself by
        > going into the spiritual realms and then dropping back into the
        > lower worlds of the negative again. Sooner or later, he must start
        > all over again."
        >
        >
        > ### Well, we once again see the threats! And yet, many ECKists close
        > their eyes to this. Also, it seems that a chela's 'reluctance and
        > lack of interest' lead to these 'hardships.' Maybe the 'reluctance'
        > and 'lack of interest' is due to the behaviour of Klemp's H.I.s that
        > are supposed to be "Higher" in Consciousness, or to all those
        > Guidelines and Missionary/Vahana/Service requirements of time and
        > money. Actually, many leave Eckankar and reject the Klempster
        > because we have discovered the distortions, fraud and lies behind
        > the whole scam from day one!
        >
        >
        > #11 - "When some chelas enter upon the path of ECK, they seem to
        > think that it is necessary to meet with the Master in person and
        > present him with an amazing amount of questions. No questions are
        > necessary, nor the reading of books or jumping to conclusions. Soon
        > the chela finds, IF he continues on the path, that every question
        > which comes into his mind is answered in a surprisingly easy way.
        > The Master is ALWAYS PATIENT BUT never does he in any way reply
        > directly to questions; he leaves this to the inner communication
        > that he establishes with the chela at the time the chela came into
        > ECK." [my caps]
        >
        >
        > ### Actually, none of these three guys have been patient with people
        > all that much! Paul did talk with people, shook hands, etc. to give
        > the darshan out and even gave Eck-Vidya readings for $200 or more a
        > pop! Darwin did some Eck-Vidya readings too I think and would sign
        > books, record albums, and shake hands at times. Klemp started out by
        > shaking hands at major seminars and then stopped after a few years.
        > He did talk with people and shook hands and even gave hugs on rare
        > ocassions at regionals or campouts. However, that all stopped over
        > 15 years ago. BTW - The Catch-22 Rule applies to outer questions
        > being answered via "inner communication." ECKists just make up or
        > dream up what they want to hear and that's their (distorted)
        > reality.
        >
        >
        > #13 - "Some persons are apt to talk negatively or criticize ECK
        > without thinking. They should know that to criticize or talk
        > negatively about the ECK or the Master, or to hold any overt or
        > covert negative attitude toward either, will bring swift reprisal.
        > When anyone sends out such vibrations, they cannot do any harm
        > because the Master is always shielded in a protective coat of light.
        > The vibrations will return to the sender, and he receives the full
        > blast of his own actions."
        >
        >
        > ### Many do tell the Truth about Eckankar and criticize the org due
        > to thinking! What I find interesting is that these comments are
        > directed to chelas and not really to those outside of the rules,
        > guidelines, and control devices (possible initiations) of Eckankar.
        > BTW - If the Master (LEM/Mahanta) is always shielded from negativity
        > by a 'coat of light' why does the ESC Staff put Only H.I.s in the
        > FRONT ROW at the EWWS and other major seminars to "protect" Klemp
        > from Negative Vibrations! This has been done for over Twenty Years!
        >
        >
        > #15 - "Many request the Master to find their lost relatives; to help
        > them change jobs; to heal them; to get a better position in life; to
        > give them better karma; to change their brothers, sisters, sons,
        > husbands, or wives to suit themselves; and a few million other
        > things. BUT the Master is not a reformer, nor is he interested in
        > social conditions, and he is not affected by the human state and its
        > desires. He is concerned with his single mission in this world; to
        > gather up Souls and return them to their heavenly home again. Do not
        > expect him to change the world and wipe out the conditions which
        > made suffering here for all. This is not his duty nor his mission."
        >
        >
        > ### Klemp now has ECKists do these things or ask for this or that on
        > the "inner" to the Mahanta. Of course, once again, if the chela
        > doesn't get what they want or doesn't have the protection or the
        > health then it's their fault (Catch-22). It always helps to
        > rationalize too! For example, if you're in a car wreck and you
        > escape with your life then you were protected by the Mahanta. Never
        > mind that thousands of others that were in car wrecks or spin outs
        > were never injured or even had vehicle damage! If chelas were really
        > protected they would never have any car damage or physical injury!
        > Therefore, ECKists shouldn't give credit to Klemp for allowing them
        > to still live and breathe! This is the same brain-washing and dogma
        > that all religions and cults give to their members. Why can't
        > ECKists see the similarities? The tricks of the ego (vanity) via
        > having that 'superior normal' view due to higher initiation numbers
        > create just part of the delusion.
        >
        >
        > My question is: What's the difference between this 1972 POV by
        > Darwin Gross (972nd LEM/Mahanta) and the present POV of Harold
        > Klemp (973rd LEM/Mahanta)?
        >
        >
        > ### The answer to the above question is... There is no real
        > difference, except, in their personalities!
        >
        >
        > Prometheus
        > BTW- Feel free to make comments everyone!
        >
      • ctecvie
        ... manipulation. ... *** Well didn t it bring about a quick result not of a pleasant nature to PT? Didn t he die more quickly than he ever thought? And isn t
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 9, 2006
          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster"
          <eckchains@...> wrote:
          >
          > Here's a quote from The Spiritual Notebook by Paul Twitchell, P.
          >81.
          > It is very typical of these eckankult masters of deception. What
          >would
          > a religion be if it did not have a few threats thrown in for good
          > measure. lol It's all just a control tactic, mind/behavior
          manipulation.
          >
          > Non
          >
          > "...
          > Many simply do not know or understand the nature of the living ECK
          > Master and will take it upon themselves to be snide with him.
          >
          > They likewise do not understand the troubles that befall them as a
          > conseqence of their overt and covert attempts to belittle or
          >ridicule
          > the teachings of the blessed ECK. For some reason, they believe
          >that
          > they are above such things simply because they have read a few
          >books
          > or studied under certain teachers and pseudo-masters. Even the most
          > simple lies will bring about a quick result which is not of a
          >pleasant
          > nature..."

          *** Well didn't it bring about a quick result not of a pleasant
          nature to PT? Didn't he die more quickly than he ever thought? And
          isn't HK so sick and looks like every year of his 62 years of age?
          Oh, I forgot - he's the "karma tank"! ROFL!

          Ingrid
        • Non ekster
          Klemp is most surely the Karma Tank ! What a dufis. I like being snide with this eckankult pseudo master. I can hardly wait for his idiotic rambling for the
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 16, 2006
            Klemp is most surely the "Karma Tank"! What a dufis. I like being
            "snide" with this eckankult pseudo master. I can hardly wait for his
            idiotic rambling for the eckie new year. It is usually quite hilarious.

            Noneckster ; )


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
            <ctecvie@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster"
            > <eckchains@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Here's a quote from The Spiritual Notebook by Paul Twitchell, P.
            > >81.
            > > It is very typical of these eckankult masters of deception. What
            > >would
            > > a religion be if it did not have a few threats thrown in for good
            > > measure. lol It's all just a control tactic, mind/behavior
            > manipulation.
            > >
            > > Non
            > >
            > > "...
            > > Many simply do not know or understand the nature of the living ECK
            > > Master and will take it upon themselves to be snide with him.
            > >
            > > They likewise do not understand the troubles that befall them as a
            > > conseqence of their overt and covert attempts to belittle or
            > >ridicule
            > > the teachings of the blessed ECK. For some reason, they believe
            > >that
            > > they are above such things simply because they have read a few
            > >books
            > > or studied under certain teachers and pseudo-masters. Even the most
            > > simple lies will bring about a quick result which is not of a
            > >pleasant
            > > nature..."
            >
            > *** Well didn't it bring about a quick result not of a pleasant
            > nature to PT? Didn't he die more quickly than he ever thought? And
            > isn't HK so sick and looks like every year of his 62 years of age?
            > Oh, I forgot - he's the "karma tank"! ROFL!
            >
            > Ingrid
            >
          • Non ekster
            Klemp is most surely the Karma Tank ! What a dufis. I like being snide with this eckankult pseudo master. I can hardly wait for his idiotic rambling for the
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 16, 2006
              Klemp is most surely the "Karma Tank"! What a dufis. I like being
              "snide" with this eckankult pseudo master. I can hardly wait for his
              idiotic rambling for the eckie new year. It is usually quite hilarious.

              Noneckster ; )


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
              <ctecvie@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non ekster"
              > <eckchains@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Here's a quote from The Spiritual Notebook by Paul Twitchell, P.
              > >81.
              > > It is very typical of these eckankult masters of deception. What
              > >would
              > > a religion be if it did not have a few threats thrown in for good
              > > measure. lol It's all just a control tactic, mind/behavior
              > manipulation.
              > >
              > > Non
              > >
              > > "...
              > > Many simply do not know or understand the nature of the living ECK
              > > Master and will take it upon themselves to be snide with him.
              > >
              > > They likewise do not understand the troubles that befall them as a
              > > conseqence of their overt and covert attempts to belittle or
              > >ridicule
              > > the teachings of the blessed ECK. For some reason, they believe
              > >that
              > > they are above such things simply because they have read a few
              > >books
              > > or studied under certain teachers and pseudo-masters. Even the most
              > > simple lies will bring about a quick result which is not of a
              > >pleasant
              > > nature..."
              >
              > *** Well didn't it bring about a quick result not of a pleasant
              > nature to PT? Didn't he die more quickly than he ever thought? And
              > isn't HK so sick and looks like every year of his 62 years of age?
              > Oh, I forgot - he's the "karma tank"! ROFL!
              >
              > Ingrid
              >
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