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Re: Klemp's Descriptions of Fubbi & Yaubl Differ from PT's!

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi All, I thought that I would revisit some of the myth that Twitchell created and to show more of the DARK (KAL) SIDE of his character. Of course, Klemp
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 1, 2006
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      Hi All,
      I thought that I would revisit some of the myth that Twitchell
      created and to show more of the DARK (KAL) SIDE of his character. Of
      course, Klemp mentions as fact that Twitchell lied to get into
      Kentucky's Who's Who at age 27 in 1935. From there Twitchell gets
      married in 1941 to his first wife in order to avoid the draft during
      WWII. He figured that with his age and being married that he should
      be able to sit out the war. However, in 1942 Twitchell reluctantly
      joins the Navy at the age of 34.

      While in the Navy Twitchell did more lying and actually sabotaged
      things by creating confusion. Even when in grade school Twitchell
      was passive/aggressive when it came to authority figures and these
      traits, along with the lying and narcissism, continued throughout
      his life. The following quote are by Twitchell in July, 1971 and
      from the book "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master."

      PT: "And I discovered one thing at this time, a very interesting
      thing. That I could control my universe and I COULD CONTROL THE
      UNIVERSE OF EVERYONE ELSE... I found out on setting my mind on
      something, it was going to work and it was going to work exactly MY
      WAY. IF I got into the service, I WASN'T going to be bothered with
      this sort of thing, of going out there on the front line and
      fighting. I WAS GOING TO FIND MYSELF A NICE, COMFORTABLE BERTH
      SOMEPLACE AND BE KEPT THERE... this is one of the acts of POWER that
      all the dictators and everybody else had found, BUT I was using it
      in my own way and not using it as a control over a great number of
      people, EXCEPT TO KEEP MYSELF OUT OF POSITIONS OF DANGER." [my caps.
      pgs. 51-52]

      Twitchell goes on to mention some of the tricks he pulled to get out
      of duty and to create confusion... REMEMBER, THIS IS DURING WARTIME!

      PT: "Well, finally I got into the service... the point was that the
      higher echelon, or the superior officers, were always having a rough
      time with me because I never acted in accordance to what they
      expected of their enlisted personnel. I COULD BLOCK THEM AND CREATE
      ALL SORTS OF FRUSTRATIONS AND CREATE PROBLEMS FOR THEM WHICH THEY
      NEVER KNEW WAS HAPPENING, OR THEY NEVER LAID THE CAUSE TO ME. i
      COULD GET THE PAPERS FUMBLED UP ON MYSELF UNTIL ONE TIME THEY GOT ME
      LOST!... THIS SORT OF THING HAD CREATED A VACUUM WHICH I HAD SET OUT
      TO DO, TO CREATE THE CONFUSION..." [my caps, pg. 53]

      After Twitchell got out of the Navy in worked in D.C. joined some
      different spiritual groups with his first and was initiated by
      Kirpal Singh, got divorced and moved to Seattle, Washington where
      Twit met Gail. Anyway, Twit claims to have worked at a major
      newspaper in Seattle (1963) and is still doing pranks, etc. and is
      still demonstrating passive/agressiveness while creating confusion
      at the age of 55.

      PT: "Well, most of these things that I did were actually PRANKS and
      just whimsical little things I did to STAB those people who had
      swollen heads and who were very unhappy about me being in their way
      like this. I did a lot of BUTTON-PUNCHING and did a lot of things
      there that people didn't like... I was actually playing PRANKS on
      the whole organization and THIS IS THE WAY THAT I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN
      ALL MY LIFE WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT. I just kept punching holes here
      and there where they would feel my punches, and yet sometimes they
      were so subtle that they couldn't be seen and sometimes they were
      just so big they'd hit them on the head with it... They always
      wanted to give me the worst end of everything and yet they
      themselves wanted to make money off my labor so I says I can't work
      this way and I went into writing and eventually I became a writer
      and eventually this writing was what hepled me become the writer
      that I am today." [my caps, pgs. 16-17]

      Well, I think that everyone can see from this why Twitchell
      plagiarized. HE COULDN'T WRITE! It also shows his nature to lie and
      manipulate and that he'd been doing this all his life. After
      Twitchell joined Scientology, met L. Ron Hubbard, years later
      meeting and marrying GAIL in Seattle, it's no wonder that creating
      ECKANKAR and becoming his own boss (and Saviour to the world) would
      be Twitchell's next step! Twitchell's scam/vocation and 'whimsical'
      joke is just passed on down into the dark dank tunnel of deception
      to the new and improved Kal agents (the KLEMPS) who spin the TRUTH
      and who delusionally want to think that they are doing some "good."

      Prometheus



      Mishmisha wrote:

      Hi, All!

      When I read the descriptions that Twitchell applied to his made up
      ECK Masters, Fubbi and Yaubl, I couldn't help put take a look once
      more at Klemp's new book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" to see how
      Klemp's version of their appearance compares to Twitchell's. I'll
      insert the exerpts from Klemp's book following each of Twitchell's
      descriptions of these eck masters that Prometheus has listed in his
      post below. You can make the comparison between how the two modern
      L.E.M.s/Mahantas viewed these made up eck masters--they do differ.
      Unfortunately, the chelas have to sort it out--which Mahanta should
      they believe? : )

      ###################################################################


      Prometheus wrote:

      I overlooked some of PT's descriptions (10-16) for Yaubl. Here's the
      update.

      Hi Pretujari,
      I found some old descriptions of Fubbi & Yaubl that don't match the
      ones that Klemp and Company are promoting. Who or what are these
      Eckists seeing? Twitch had the first contact with these "Masters" so
      one would think that his descriptions are the more valid ones!

      Here are Paul's descriptions as stated in "Difficulties of Becoming
      the Living ECK Master."

      Fubbi Quantz (pgs 110-112):
      1. Wears a high turban
      2. Long white robe
      3. Does Not appear to people or gives instructions
      4. Very busy with the Shariyat
      5. Awfully busy with spiritual development of the planet
      6. 1,000 years old (close to)
      7. Very tall 6'3"
      8. Very swarthy, long hands, pointed feet
      9. Rebazar was his pupil
      10. Has a very deep rolling voice
      11. Monastery is a long brown building upon a mountain peak &
      overlooks a range of mountains.
      12. Located in Tibet on earth plane-planes fly over but can't see
      it, etc.

      [NOTE: Twitchell DID NOT mention that FUBBI had a BEARD but did
      mention that he wore a HIGH TURBAN!]

      Mish: Klemp in "Those Wonderful ECK Master" describes Fubbi thus:
      from page 26, "He (Fubbi) is a tall, elderly man with white hair and
      beard, and a gentle smile. Good humor gleams in his eyes. Paul
      Twitchell once described him as having a lantern jaw, and the
      description fits. Usually Fubbi appears to spiritual students in a
      white robe that reaches well below the knees. . . . "

      The drawing of Fubbi in Klemp's book does not have him wearing a
      high turban but rather Fubbi has a cloth draped over his head.

      As to Fubbi not appearing to people or giving instructions as
      Twitchell described, Klemp goes on in his chapter on Fubbi with
      stories of chelas seeing him in their dreams and also in the
      physical.

      Klemp also explains Fubbi's God experience on page 28. It has a
      familiar ring to it--I'm sure you will notice as you read Klemp's
      words--he is so original! (LOL):

      HK: "What preparatory steps were involved that carried him (Fubbi)
      even beyond that stage so he coudl enter in the circle of ECK Adepts
      and the Vairagi Masters? He was studying at a monastery then, and
      life had put him where he couldn't see a way out to find spiritual
      freedom. So he made the decision to climb a holy mountain in search
      of enlightenment. He supposed that such a mountain peak was as good
      a place as any to continue his quest. When he reached the summit, he
      creied, 'God, why have you forsaken me?' After a while there came a
      voice. It said, 'My son, I haven't forsaken you. I've been with you
      through the ages.' And the lightening flashed, and thunder
      rolled. . . . "

      I have to ask how can anyone read this with a straight face???

      #####################################################################

      Yaubl Sacabi (pgs. 113-115):
      1. He doesn't walk upright
      2. His face is a light color, looks very ascetic, and very old
      3. Walks slowly and speaks with great dignity and in a higher than
      normal pitch.
      4. Teacher of Fubbi
      5. 5'8" or 5'10" tall
      6. A sort of square face
      7. 2,000-3,000 years old (not sure)
      8. Very long slender hands
      9. Lives on Agam Des with the God-Eaters in Himalaya Mountains near
      Kashmer border.
      10. Wears a sort of a sandal
      11. Wears a toga type of a gown
      12. Likes to sit in a corner of a public market
      13. Talks from a podium
      14. People will come there via Soul Travel to study the Shariyat
      15. The place (monastery) looks like Canterbury Cathedral in England
      16. Light surrounds him and comes from him


      [NOTE: Twitch DID NOT mention Yaubl's LACK OF HAIR and stated that
      he walked bent over and LOOKED VERY OLD!]>

      ####################################################################

      Klemp describes Yaubl in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," page 145, as
      follows:

      HK: "You will recognize Yaubl at first sight, for his bald head
      looks a bit like a brass dome. A strong nose, thick neck, and well-
      developed muscles in arems and chest outline a capable, rugged
      appearance."

      The "official" drawing of Yaubl at the beginning of the chapter
      about him does not depict as looking very old as Twitchell says and
      Klemp's describes him as being strong and fit, rather than walking
      bent over like an old man--or maybe he looks strong and walks around
      like a broken down man?? This doesn't make sense does it? : )

      ###################################################################

      Both of these descriptions of Fubbi and Yaubl that Paul Twitchell
      (First LEM/Mahanta and founder of Eckankar) gives don't match with
      the drawings that were done after Twitchell's death! How then can
      these "masters" be believable to Eckists. Who and What are they
      seeing?

      *Eckists are Not seeing the same FUBBI and YAUBL that Twitchell saw!
      Perhaps this is one more reason why Klemp has refused to reprint or
      make available as a e-book "The Difficulties of Becoming the Living
      ECK Master" by Paul Twitchell.

      I agree. It is through suggestion and hypnosis that Eckists are
      seeing what they see. When visions of visitations take place before
      the fact of meeting these "Masters" or HK it is merely that Soul
      (not limited by time and space) is experiencing the influences that
      will be taking place in the future. Deja vu is quite common to every
      Soul!

      Prometheus

      ####################################################################

      I think this is rather fun to make these comparisons between
      Twitchell and Klemp--what each of these fraudulent mahantas have
      said as they spun their lies and deceptions in keeping chelas hooked
      on these fake "teachings!"

      Mish
    • pretujari
      Hi Prometheus, Mish, and All, Thanks for revealing the interesting discrepancies between the descriptions of Twitchell and Klemp of Fubbi Quantz and Yaubl
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 3, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Prometheus, Mish, and All,
        Thanks for revealing the interesting discrepancies between the
        descriptions of Twitchell and Klemp of Fubbi Quantz and Yaubl
        Sacabi. Another clear evidence that these eck masters were contrived
        and fabricated. I mean, the descriptions of Twitchell and Klemp of
        Yaubl Sacabi are like chalk and cheese. LOL

        And Mish, with my Eckankar blinkers removed, I couldn't keep a
        straight face when I read about how Fubbi attained enlightenment.
        Even now am laughing!

        I've wondered certain things about the eck masters over the years.
        For example, are the names we know their spiritual names or secular
        ones? Klemp is Wah Z, Gross is Dap Ren. So is `Gopal Das' a
        spiritual name or secular one? And what is the spiritual name of eck
        master Sudar Singh? Someone ought to ask Klemp this because it has
        never been mentioned. So tell us, Klempus, what is Sudar's spiritual
        name?

        Talking of Gopal Das, the name is patently Indian and sounds more
        like a secular name than a spiritual one. Yet his features doesn't
        suggest he is of Indian extraction. These to mention but a few.

        And did African or Black eckists had to wait till 1999 or
        thereabouts for a photo of African eck master Towart Managi to be
        released?

        Once a scammer and prankster always a scammer and prankster. Did PT
        at one point decided to pull his biggest prank with the creation of
        Eckankar? The evidence that this is so to the objective observer is
        overwhelming. I wonder what Twitchell's thoughts were on Eckankar in
        his private moments.

        What about the big fight Twitchell got into while in an Ashram in
        D.C? According to Klemp, it was a long and brutal fight between the
        future eck master and another member of the spiritual group he
        belonged to at that time. When it was all over, Twitchell suffered
        broken ribs and an eye injury. He was expelled from the compound and
        not long afterwards he and his first wife, Camille Brown, divorced.

        Pretujari




        -- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi All,
        > I thought that I would revisit some of the myth that Twitchell
        > created and to show more of the DARK (KAL) SIDE of his character.
        Of
        > course, Klemp mentions as fact that Twitchell lied to get into
        > Kentucky's Who's Who at age 27 in 1935. From there Twitchell gets
        > married in 1941 to his first wife in order to avoid the draft
        during
        > WWII. He figured that with his age and being married that he
        should
        > be able to sit out the war. However, in 1942 Twitchell reluctantly
        > joins the Navy at the age of 34.
        >
        > While in the Navy Twitchell did more lying and actually sabotaged
        > things by creating confusion. Even when in grade school Twitchell
        > was passive/aggressive when it came to authority figures and these
        > traits, along with the lying and narcissism, continued throughout
        > his life. The following quote are by Twitchell in July, 1971 and
        > from the book "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master."
        >
        > PT: "And I discovered one thing at this time, a very interesting
        > thing. That I could control my universe and I COULD CONTROL THE
        > UNIVERSE OF EVERYONE ELSE... I found out on setting my mind on
        > something, it was going to work and it was going to work exactly
        MY
        > WAY. IF I got into the service, I WASN'T going to be bothered with
        > this sort of thing, of going out there on the front line and
        > fighting. I WAS GOING TO FIND MYSELF A NICE, COMFORTABLE BERTH
        > SOMEPLACE AND BE KEPT THERE... this is one of the acts of POWER
        that
        > all the dictators and everybody else had found, BUT I was using it
        > in my own way and not using it as a control over a great number of
        > people, EXCEPT TO KEEP MYSELF OUT OF POSITIONS OF DANGER." [my
        caps.
        > pgs. 51-52]
        >
        > Twitchell goes on to mention some of the tricks he pulled to get
        out
        > of duty and to create confusion... REMEMBER, THIS IS DURING
        WARTIME!
        >
        > PT: "Well, finally I got into the service... the point was that
        the
        > higher echelon, or the superior officers, were always having a
        rough
        > time with me because I never acted in accordance to what they
        > expected of their enlisted personnel. I COULD BLOCK THEM AND
        CREATE
        > ALL SORTS OF FRUSTRATIONS AND CREATE PROBLEMS FOR THEM WHICH THEY
        > NEVER KNEW WAS HAPPENING, OR THEY NEVER LAID THE CAUSE TO ME. i
        > COULD GET THE PAPERS FUMBLED UP ON MYSELF UNTIL ONE TIME THEY GOT
        ME
        > LOST!... THIS SORT OF THING HAD CREATED A VACUUM WHICH I HAD SET
        OUT
        > TO DO, TO CREATE THE CONFUSION..." [my caps, pg. 53]
        >
        > After Twitchell got out of the Navy in worked in D.C. joined some
        > different spiritual groups with his first and was initiated by
        > Kirpal Singh, got divorced and moved to Seattle, Washington where
        > Twit met Gail. Anyway, Twit claims to have worked at a major
        > newspaper in Seattle (1963) and is still doing pranks, etc. and is
        > still demonstrating passive/agressiveness while creating confusion
        > at the age of 55.
        >
        > PT: "Well, most of these things that I did were actually PRANKS
        and
        > just whimsical little things I did to STAB those people who had
        > swollen heads and who were very unhappy about me being in their
        way
        > like this. I did a lot of BUTTON-PUNCHING and did a lot of things
        > there that people didn't like... I was actually playing PRANKS on
        > the whole organization and THIS IS THE WAY THAT I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN
        > ALL MY LIFE WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT. I just kept punching holes
        here
        > and there where they would feel my punches, and yet sometimes they
        > were so subtle that they couldn't be seen and sometimes they were
        > just so big they'd hit them on the head with it... They always
        > wanted to give me the worst end of everything and yet they
        > themselves wanted to make money off my labor so I says I can't
        work
        > this way and I went into writing and eventually I became a writer
        > and eventually this writing was what hepled me become the writer
        > that I am today." [my caps, pgs. 16-17]
        >
        > Well, I think that everyone can see from this why Twitchell
        > plagiarized. HE COULDN'T WRITE! It also shows his nature to lie
        and
        > manipulate and that he'd been doing this all his life. After
        > Twitchell joined Scientology, met L. Ron Hubbard, years later
        > meeting and marrying GAIL in Seattle, it's no wonder that creating
        > ECKANKAR and becoming his own boss (and Saviour to the world)
        would
        > be Twitchell's next step! Twitchell's scam/vocation
        and 'whimsical'
        > joke is just passed on down into the dark dank tunnel of deception
        > to the new and improved Kal agents (the KLEMPS) who spin the TRUTH
        > and who delusionally want to think that they are doing
        some "good."
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        >
        > Mishmisha wrote:
        >
        > Hi, All!
        >
        > When I read the descriptions that Twitchell applied to his made up
        > ECK Masters, Fubbi and Yaubl, I couldn't help put take a look once
        > more at Klemp's new book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" to see how
        > Klemp's version of their appearance compares to Twitchell's. I'll
        > insert the exerpts from Klemp's book following each of Twitchell's
        > descriptions of these eck masters that Prometheus has listed in
        his
        > post below. You can make the comparison between how the two modern
        > L.E.M.s/Mahantas viewed these made up eck masters--they do differ.
        > Unfortunately, the chelas have to sort it out--which Mahanta
        should
        > they believe? : )
        >
        > ###################################################################
        >
        >
        > Prometheus wrote:
        >
        > I overlooked some of PT's descriptions (10-16) for Yaubl. Here's
        the
        > update.
        >
        > Hi Pretujari,
        > I found some old descriptions of Fubbi & Yaubl that don't match
        the
        > ones that Klemp and Company are promoting. Who or what are these
        > Eckists seeing? Twitch had the first contact with these "Masters"
        so
        > one would think that his descriptions are the more valid ones!
        >
        > Here are Paul's descriptions as stated in "Difficulties of
        Becoming
        > the Living ECK Master."
        >
        > Fubbi Quantz (pgs 110-112):
        > 1. Wears a high turban
        > 2. Long white robe
        > 3. Does Not appear to people or gives instructions
        > 4. Very busy with the Shariyat
        > 5. Awfully busy with spiritual development of the planet
        > 6. 1,000 years old (close to)
        > 7. Very tall 6'3"
        > 8. Very swarthy, long hands, pointed feet
        > 9. Rebazar was his pupil
        > 10. Has a very deep rolling voice
        > 11. Monastery is a long brown building upon a mountain peak &
        > overlooks a range of mountains.
        > 12. Located in Tibet on earth plane-planes fly over but can't see
        > it, etc.
        >
        > [NOTE: Twitchell DID NOT mention that FUBBI had a BEARD but did
        > mention that he wore a HIGH TURBAN!]
        >
        > Mish: Klemp in "Those Wonderful ECK Master" describes Fubbi thus:
        > from page 26, "He (Fubbi) is a tall, elderly man with white hair
        and
        > beard, and a gentle smile. Good humor gleams in his eyes. Paul
        > Twitchell once described him as having a lantern jaw, and the
        > description fits. Usually Fubbi appears to spiritual students in a
        > white robe that reaches well below the knees. . . . "
        >
        > The drawing of Fubbi in Klemp's book does not have him wearing a
        > high turban but rather Fubbi has a cloth draped over his head.
        >
        > As to Fubbi not appearing to people or giving instructions as
        > Twitchell described, Klemp goes on in his chapter on Fubbi with
        > stories of chelas seeing him in their dreams and also in the
        > physical.
        >
        > Klemp also explains Fubbi's God experience on page 28. It has a
        > familiar ring to it--I'm sure you will notice as you read Klemp's
        > words--he is so original! (LOL):
        >
        > HK: "What preparatory steps were involved that carried him (Fubbi)
        > even beyond that stage so he coudl enter in the circle of ECK
        Adepts
        > and the Vairagi Masters? He was studying at a monastery then, and
        > life had put him where he couldn't see a way out to find spiritual
        > freedom. So he made the decision to climb a holy mountain in
        search
        > of enlightenment. He supposed that such a mountain peak was as
        good
        > a place as any to continue his quest. When he reached the summit,
        he
        > creied, 'God, why have you forsaken me?' After a while there came
        a
        > voice. It said, 'My son, I haven't forsaken you. I've been with
        you
        > through the ages.' And the lightening flashed, and thunder
        > rolled. . . . "
        >
        > I have to ask how can anyone read this with a straight face???
        >
        >
        #####################################################################
        >
        > Yaubl Sacabi (pgs. 113-115):
        > 1. He doesn't walk upright
        > 2. His face is a light color, looks very ascetic, and very old
        > 3. Walks slowly and speaks with great dignity and in a higher
        than
        > normal pitch.
        > 4. Teacher of Fubbi
        > 5. 5'8" or 5'10" tall
        > 6. A sort of square face
        > 7. 2,000-3,000 years old (not sure)
        > 8. Very long slender hands
        > 9. Lives on Agam Des with the God-Eaters in Himalaya Mountains
        near
        > Kashmer border.
        > 10. Wears a sort of a sandal
        > 11. Wears a toga type of a gown
        > 12. Likes to sit in a corner of a public market
        > 13. Talks from a podium
        > 14. People will come there via Soul Travel to study the Shariyat
        > 15. The place (monastery) looks like Canterbury Cathedral in
        England
        > 16. Light surrounds him and comes from him
        >
        >
        > [NOTE: Twitch DID NOT mention Yaubl's LACK OF HAIR and stated that
        > he walked bent over and LOOKED VERY OLD!]>
        >
        >
        ####################################################################
        >
        > Klemp describes Yaubl in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," page 145,
        as
        > follows:
        >
        > HK: "You will recognize Yaubl at first sight, for his bald head
        > looks a bit like a brass dome. A strong nose, thick neck, and well-
        > developed muscles in arems and chest outline a capable, rugged
        > appearance."
        >
        > The "official" drawing of Yaubl at the beginning of the chapter
        > about him does not depict as looking very old as Twitchell says
        and
        > Klemp's describes him as being strong and fit, rather than walking
        > bent over like an old man--or maybe he looks strong and walks
        around
        > like a broken down man?? This doesn't make sense does it? : )
        >
        > ###################################################################
        >
        > Both of these descriptions of Fubbi and Yaubl that Paul Twitchell
        > (First LEM/Mahanta and founder of Eckankar) gives don't match with
        > the drawings that were done after Twitchell's death! How then can
        > these "masters" be believable to Eckists. Who and What are they
        > seeing?
        >
        > *Eckists are Not seeing the same FUBBI and YAUBL that Twitchell
        saw!
        > Perhaps this is one more reason why Klemp has refused to reprint
        or
        > make available as a e-book "The Difficulties of Becoming the
        Living
        > ECK Master" by Paul Twitchell.
        >
        > I agree. It is through suggestion and hypnosis that Eckists are
        > seeing what they see. When visions of visitations take place
        before
        > the fact of meeting these "Masters" or HK it is merely that Soul
        > (not limited by time and space) is experiencing the influences
        that
        > will be taking place in the future. Deja vu is quite common to
        every
        > Soul!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        ####################################################################
        >
        > I think this is rather fun to make these comparisons between
        > Twitchell and Klemp--what each of these fraudulent mahantas have
        > said as they spun their lies and deceptions in keeping chelas
        hooked
        > on these fake "teachings!"
        >
        > Mish
        >
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