Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Comments on: "The Mystic World of Eckankar" June 2005

Expand Messages
  • l2eigh
    HK was in a hurry to become the L.E.M. ... Hi Prometheus: Could you expand on this a little bit?
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 15, 2005
      HK was in a hurry to become the L.E.M.
      > (via Darwin Gross) according to his first wife,


      Hi Prometheus:
      Could you expand on this a little bit?
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Leigh, Yes I can. However, I ll have to look through some books first in order to give the exact quote, book title, and page number. Harold himself mentions
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 15, 2005
        Hi Leigh,

        Yes I can. However, I'll have to look through some books first in
        order to give the exact quote, book title, and page number. Harold
        himself mentions what Marge had said to him. Harold and Darwin had
        been meeting now and then in a Sound Proof Dark Room where Harold
        worked when developing prints for Eckankar publications. This event
        with Marge took place after Darwin had given Harold the 9th
        Initiation in preparation for him to take over as L.E.M. in 1980.
        However, the power transfer was delayed for one year and Harold was
        disappointed and was acting impatient. Marge said to Harold
        something like, Why can't you just be happy with being an ECK Master?

        Prometheus



        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh"
        <lgrif@m...> wrote:
        > HK was in a hurry to become the L.E.M.
        > > (via Darwin Gross) according to his first wife,
        >
        >
        > Hi Prometheus:
        > Could you expand on this a little bit?
      • prometheus_973
        Hey it s me again! I checked out the source of my comments and found it in HK s 1987 copyright of Soul Travelers of the Far Country. On page 142 Marge says
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 15, 2005
          Hey it's me again!

          I checked out the source of my comments and found it in HK's 1987
          copyright of "Soul Travelers of the Far Country." On page 142 Marge
          says to Harold, 'Don't worry'... 'You can always be an ECK Master,
          even if you can't be the Living ECK Master.' On page 143 Harold
          states that, "More than once my wife tried in vain to cheer me up by
          saying that it is a blessing to become an ECK Master; why not set my
          sights on that?" Harold also states that, "From then on I no longer
          spoke about my inner experiences, and at the time, this strained our
          marriage badly."

          Actually, I was wrong about the 9th Initiation date. Harold seems to
          jump around a lot and specific information is hard to find without
          extensive reading. However, HK received his 8th (Inner) Initiation
          on June 14, 1980 and the real outer one on January 27, 1981 (page
          140). On pages 186-187 HK claims to have received the 9th Initiation
          on July 22, 1981 (on the Inner), and states that, "Initiations in
          ECK beyond the 8th are only given on the inner planes." Did he
          confirm receiving the 9th on the inner with Darwin Gross the 972th
          L.E.M. and Mahanta? HK seems to leave out this little detail. Maybe
          Graham and Ford should have kept silent and just lived in the ECK
          delusion of inner mastership! Set 'em up boys!

          But, wait! I seem to remember that in the Master 4 Discourses lesson
          2 was titled, "The Ninth Initiation." Hmmmm. Well it states that it
          happens on the inner and that all of the 8ths (other planes included
          and from other parts of the physical universe) appear as either of
          the white or yellow race as they gather at this special spiritual
          retreat.

          "White signifies the active path of the extrovert" (they still have
          egos?). "Yellow stands for its counterpoint: the path of indirection
          (not passivity), the method of subtlety rather than easy-to-discern
          outer behavior." Wow, HK really had to go into detail for the
          indirect (nonreactive) yellow race thing! The HUK sound wave is sent
          to the candidate for the 9th Initiation. "In the last phase the
          Mahanta, the Living ECK Master confirms the initiation by some outer
          means. Oops, I guess Graham should have just kept silent and waited
          and waited and waited... just like others do for that outer
          confirmation. As above so below, or is it really as below so above?
          Actually, does an above (up) and below (down) really make sense!
          This is just more eckie brain washing just like the acting "AS IF"
          thing is!

          Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
          parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
          Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
          imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
          spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
          final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."
          Harold goes on to remind ECKists that, "The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad,
          Book Two, says: 'The Maulani is the one who sacrifices everything
          for his fellow ECKists, for if it is necessary for him to put
          himself in debt for them, or share their cell in prison, it must be
          done." Hey Harold, what ever happened to self-responsibility and
          karmic lessons for these other ECKists? And, what else might you ask
          them to sacrifice?

          Prometheus



          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
          > Hi Leigh,
          >
          > Yes I can. However, I'll have to look through some books first in
          > order to give the exact quote, book title, and page number. Harold
          > himself mentions what Marge had said to him. Harold and Darwin had
          > been meeting now and then in a Sound Proof Dark Room where Harold
          > worked when developing prints for Eckankar publications. This
          event
          > with Marge took place after Darwin had given Harold the 9th
          > Initiation in preparation for him to take over as L.E.M. in 1980.
          > However, the power transfer was delayed for one year and Harold
          was
          > disappointed and was acting impatient. Marge said to Harold
          > something like, Why can't you just be happy with being an ECK
          Master?
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh"
          > <lgrif@m...> wrote:
          > > HK was in a hurry to become the L.E.M.
          > > > (via Darwin Gross) according to his first wife,
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi Prometheus:
          > > Could you expand on this a little bit?
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Again! It s funny how Eckists just tend to accept anything and everything that Klemp has to say. A true believer in Eckankar has accepted HK s position of
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 16, 2005
            Hi Again!

            It's funny how Eckists just tend to accept anything and everything
            that Klemp has to say. A true believer in Eckankar has accepted HK's
            position of authority over him/her. Therefore, the information HK
            has printed in his books, or other publications, is never questioned
            or critically analyzed. It seems that people tend to overlook
            possible and apparent contradictions as a matter of belief and
            faith. People want to believe, and will see contradictions in terms
            of paradoxes, spiritual tests, or on levels of consciousness beyond
            their limited comprehension. The Eckist seeks answers "As If" they
            already know the results. The delusions are shared, re-enforced, and
            are presented and maintained in a comforting structure.

            For instance: Klemp has stated that Eckankar's Nineth Initiation is
            only given on the inner planes. However, this is only partially
            true. The below criteria, as given in Eckankar's Master 4 Discourses
            Lesson 2 states that there are THREE STAGES to the NINETH!

            HOWEVER, "THE THIRD FINAL PART OF THE NINETH INITIATION OCCURS IN
            THE PHYSICAL WORLD." THEREFORE, HAROLD IS NOT BEING COMPLETELY
            ACCURATE. HK SHOULD STATE THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON BOTH THE INNER
            AND OUTER, OR THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON THE INNER AND IS CONFIRMED
            ON THE OUTER IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THE INITIATION.

            Actually, these types of errors and the confusion they cause (when
            noticed and not automatically accepted) are typical when the
            Eckankar saviors (Twitch, Gross and Klemp) make it up as they go
            along. Actually, it's so typical of con/cult behavior!

            Prometheus



            > Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
            parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
            Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
            imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
            spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
            final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."

            >
            > Prometheus
          • prometheus_973
            Hi All, FYI: I decided to change the subject line in order to fit the topic better, so don t think you re seeing things if you ve already read this. It s
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 17, 2005
              Hi All,

              FYI: I decided to change the subject line in order to fit the topic
              better, so don't think you're "seeing things" if you've already read
              this.

              It's funny how Eckists just tend to accept anything and everything
              that Klemp has to say. A true believer in Eckankar has accepted HK's
              position of authority over him/her. Therefore, the information HK
              has printed in his books, or other publications, is never questioned
              or critically analyzed. It seems that people tend to overlook
              possible and apparent contradictions as a matter of belief and
              faith. People want to believe, and will see contradictions in terms
              of paradoxes, spiritual tests, or on levels of consciousness beyond
              their limited comprehension. The Eckist seeks answers "As If" they
              already know the results. The delusions are shared, re-enforced, and
              are presented and maintained in a comforting structure.

              For instance: Klemp has stated that Eckankar's Nineth Initiation is
              only given on the inner planes. However, this is only partially
              true. The below criteria, as given in Eckankar's Master 4 Discourses
              Lesson 2 states that there are THREE STAGES to the NINETH!

              HOWEVER, "THE THIRD FINAL PART OF THE NINETH INITIATION OCCURS IN
              THE PHYSICAL WORLD." THEREFORE, HAROLD IS NOT BEING COMPLETELY
              ACCURATE. HK SHOULD STATE THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON BOTH THE INNER
              AND OUTER, OR THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON THE INNER AND IS CONFIRMED
              ON THE OUTER IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THE INITIATION.

              Actually, these types of errors and the confusion they cause (when
              noticed and not automatically accepted) are typical when the
              Eckankar saviors (Twitch, Gross and Klemp) make it up as they go
              along. Actually, it's so typical of con/cult behavior!

              Prometheus

              p.s.
              Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
              parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
              Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
              imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
              spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
              final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."
            • prometheus_973
              Hello All, FYI: Once again I have changed the subject line in order to be able to find this topic easier for future reference. I checked out the source of my
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 17, 2005
                Hello All,

                FYI: Once again I have changed the subject line in order to be able
                to find this topic easier for future reference.

                I checked out the source of my comments and found it in HK's 1987
                copyright of "Soul Travelers of the Far Country." On page 142 Marge
                says to Harold, 'Don't worry'... 'You can always be an ECK Master,
                even if you can't be the Living ECK Master.' On page 143 Harold
                states that, "More than once my wife tried in vain to cheer me up by
                saying that it is a blessing to become an ECK Master; why not set my
                sights on that?" Harold also states that, "From then on I no longer
                spoke about my inner experiences, and at the time, this strained our
                marriage badly."

                Actually, I was wrong about the 9th Initiation date. Harold seems to
                jump around a lot and specific information is hard to find without
                extensive reading. However, HK received his 8th (Inner) Initiation
                on June 14, 1980 and the real outer one on January 27, 1981 (page
                140). On pages 186-187 HK claims to have received the 9th Initiation
                on July 22, 1981 (on the Inner), and states that, "Initiations in
                ECK beyond the 8th are only given on the inner planes." Did he
                confirm receiving the 9th on the inner with Darwin Gross the 972th
                L.E.M. and Mahanta? HK seems to leave out this little detail. Maybe
                Graham and Ford should have kept silent and just lived in the ECK
                delusion of inner mastership!

                But, wait! I seem to remember that in the Master 4 Discourses Lesson
                2 was titled, "The Ninth Initiation." Hmmmm. Well it states that it
                happens on the inner and that all of the 8ths (other planes included
                and from other parts of the physical universe) appear as either of
                the white or yellow race as they gather at this special spiritual
                retreat.

                "White signifies the active path of the extrovert" (they still have
                egos?). "Yellow stands for its counterpoint: the path of indirection
                (not passivity), the method of subtlety rather than easy-to-discern
                outer behavior." Wow, HK really had to go into detail for the
                indirect (nonreactive) yellow race thing! The HUK sound wave is sent
                to the candidate for the 9th Initiation. "In the last phase the
                Mahanta, the Living ECK Master confirms the initiation by some outer
                means. Oops, I guess Graham should have just kept silent and waited
                and waited and waited... just like others do for that outer
                confirmation. As above so below, or is it really as below so above?
                Actually, does an above (up) and below (down) really make sense!
                This is just more eckie brain washing just like the acting "AS IF"
                thing is!

                Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
                parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
                Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
                imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
                spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
                final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."
                Harold goes on to remind ECKists that, "The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad,
                Book Two, says: 'The Maulani is the one who sacrifices everything
                for his fellow ECKists, for if it is necessary for him to put
                himself in debt for them, or share their cell in prison, it must be
                done." Hey Harold, what ever happened to self-responsibility and
                karmic lessons for these other ECKists? And, what else might you ask
                them to sacrifice?

                Prometheus
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.