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Comments on: "The Mystic World of Eckankar" June 2005

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi All, I think I ll comment on Klemp s lies and distortions in Eckankar s Mystic World of 06/2005. I am fortunate that I have access to this publication which
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 14, 2005
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      Hi All,

      I think I'll comment on Klemp's lies and distortions in Eckankar's
      Mystic World of 06/2005. I am fortunate that I have access to this
      publication which is for members only. Lately, "The Mystic World"
      has had more substance (commentary by HK) than his H.I. Letter!

      The front page article by Klemp is titled, "The Fantastic Spiritual
      Quest of Milarepa." Basically, Klemp tells a story of Milarepa as
      starting out in life as a black magician and how his negative
      actions ("black arts") built up "black karma" for the "black
      magician." Harold uses the word "black" (7 times) in a negative
      conotation, but what is the history (time period) of this word being
      used in that context? Also, White Magic is never mentioned, and yet
      both black and white magic bring on karma right?

      To refresh everyone's memories... Milarepa is the 11th century
      Tibetan saint and poet that Twitchell's Eckankar scam hi-jacked and
      made into an Eck Master. This is another one of those re-writes of
      history where Twitchell tries to give a historical validity to his
      new creation. One thing to note is that ECK refers to SPIRIT or
      Spiritual, but Eckankar has made SPIRIT exclusive to it by
      exclusively making historically famous people into trademarked "ECK"
      (Spiritual) Masters or students of "ECK" Masters. Remember, to make
      a lie into a believable "truth" mix in some historical truth with
      the lie and tell it in story form.

      On page 2 HK mentions Milarepa's teacher Marpa. Harold claims Marpa
      was called the "Translator" and "was secretly also an ECK Master."
      What does he mean "secretly also?" Anyway, Milarepa is mentioned in
      the Eckankar Lexicon, but Marpa is not! Wow, that secret was kept
      for a long time! Do Eckists really believe this crap? Yep!
      Interesting that HK uses the nickname "Translator" for Marpa. It
      reminds me of the word translation which is an eckie term for death
      and this word is in the Lexicon! Gee, all the words and everything
      mentioned fits just like a puzzle doesn't it? It's all tied in ever
      so neatly!

      HK tells his story about the spiritual tests that Milarepa's teacher
      put him through. HK seems to be hinting to or reminding eckists that
      they are being tested as well and that this is part of jumping for
      the carrot of eck mastership. Harold also mentions that Marpa's wife
      didn't understand that Milarepa was being tested, and interfered
      somewhat (no female ECK Masters in this story). HK states, "Each,
      alone, must account for his own spiritual depts. No one else can do
      it for him." Hk goes on to say that "Marpa secretly noted his
      (Milarepa's) love for the secret teachings." Hey, is Harold trying
      to create some history for "the secret teachings?" Maybe it's just
      another phrase of words to trap the gullible who want to believe!
      Maybe Harold can't keep a secret of a secret!

      Harold Klemp (HK) goes on to say, "Her interference had led
      Milaqrepa on in his mistaken belief that another could intervene in
      his obligations before the exacting Law of Karma." Harold now claims
      that Marpa says, 'But I will give him the initiation that will allow
      him to begin receiving the secret teachings.' Clever spin Harold,
      but you already said that, "Marpa secretly noted his love for the
      secret teachings." So, it seems HK is getting the story all wrong...
      he needs to keep his lies straight!

      But, it is clever how HK got the initiation thing in there again.
      The ranks of Eckists hitting that glass ceiling of the 7th
      Initiation are building up! The message is of many many difficult
      spiritual tests, tons of patience, and the hint that there is no
      hurry to God-Realization. HK was in a hurry to become the L.E.M.
      (via Darwin Gross) according to his first wife, but others are to
      have patience in getting to that 10th Initiation to acheive God-
      Realization and/or ECK Mastership. Just delude yourself to believe
      you're already there on the Inner! Harold is laughing all the way to
      the bank!

      However, let me offer suggestions to Klemp for solving the quagmire
      of discontent of those arbitrary initiations and the over abundance
      of 7ths. This will help releive some stress from all of those brain-
      washed wannabes. Make all of the Eighth Initiates 9ths! Make the
      7ths who have twenty-five years as 7ths into 8ths! The requirements
      for leadership and participation (recorded certification) will take
      care of the initiation requirements for the rest of HK's volunteer
      army (along with who you know and years of continued membership).
      Higher Consciousness/God-Realization is a just a mental and ego
      concept anyway, and Voila! There Harold... the problem is fixed, or
      it is for your lifetime that's for sure!

      Prometheus
    • l2eigh
      HK was in a hurry to become the L.E.M. ... Hi Prometheus: Could you expand on this a little bit?
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 15, 2005
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        HK was in a hurry to become the L.E.M.
        > (via Darwin Gross) according to his first wife,


        Hi Prometheus:
        Could you expand on this a little bit?
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Leigh, Yes I can. However, I ll have to look through some books first in order to give the exact quote, book title, and page number. Harold himself mentions
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 15, 2005
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          Hi Leigh,

          Yes I can. However, I'll have to look through some books first in
          order to give the exact quote, book title, and page number. Harold
          himself mentions what Marge had said to him. Harold and Darwin had
          been meeting now and then in a Sound Proof Dark Room where Harold
          worked when developing prints for Eckankar publications. This event
          with Marge took place after Darwin had given Harold the 9th
          Initiation in preparation for him to take over as L.E.M. in 1980.
          However, the power transfer was delayed for one year and Harold was
          disappointed and was acting impatient. Marge said to Harold
          something like, Why can't you just be happy with being an ECK Master?

          Prometheus



          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh"
          <lgrif@m...> wrote:
          > HK was in a hurry to become the L.E.M.
          > > (via Darwin Gross) according to his first wife,
          >
          >
          > Hi Prometheus:
          > Could you expand on this a little bit?
        • prometheus_973
          Hey it s me again! I checked out the source of my comments and found it in HK s 1987 copyright of Soul Travelers of the Far Country. On page 142 Marge says
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 15, 2005
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            Hey it's me again!

            I checked out the source of my comments and found it in HK's 1987
            copyright of "Soul Travelers of the Far Country." On page 142 Marge
            says to Harold, 'Don't worry'... 'You can always be an ECK Master,
            even if you can't be the Living ECK Master.' On page 143 Harold
            states that, "More than once my wife tried in vain to cheer me up by
            saying that it is a blessing to become an ECK Master; why not set my
            sights on that?" Harold also states that, "From then on I no longer
            spoke about my inner experiences, and at the time, this strained our
            marriage badly."

            Actually, I was wrong about the 9th Initiation date. Harold seems to
            jump around a lot and specific information is hard to find without
            extensive reading. However, HK received his 8th (Inner) Initiation
            on June 14, 1980 and the real outer one on January 27, 1981 (page
            140). On pages 186-187 HK claims to have received the 9th Initiation
            on July 22, 1981 (on the Inner), and states that, "Initiations in
            ECK beyond the 8th are only given on the inner planes." Did he
            confirm receiving the 9th on the inner with Darwin Gross the 972th
            L.E.M. and Mahanta? HK seems to leave out this little detail. Maybe
            Graham and Ford should have kept silent and just lived in the ECK
            delusion of inner mastership! Set 'em up boys!

            But, wait! I seem to remember that in the Master 4 Discourses lesson
            2 was titled, "The Ninth Initiation." Hmmmm. Well it states that it
            happens on the inner and that all of the 8ths (other planes included
            and from other parts of the physical universe) appear as either of
            the white or yellow race as they gather at this special spiritual
            retreat.

            "White signifies the active path of the extrovert" (they still have
            egos?). "Yellow stands for its counterpoint: the path of indirection
            (not passivity), the method of subtlety rather than easy-to-discern
            outer behavior." Wow, HK really had to go into detail for the
            indirect (nonreactive) yellow race thing! The HUK sound wave is sent
            to the candidate for the 9th Initiation. "In the last phase the
            Mahanta, the Living ECK Master confirms the initiation by some outer
            means. Oops, I guess Graham should have just kept silent and waited
            and waited and waited... just like others do for that outer
            confirmation. As above so below, or is it really as below so above?
            Actually, does an above (up) and below (down) really make sense!
            This is just more eckie brain washing just like the acting "AS IF"
            thing is!

            Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
            parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
            Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
            imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
            spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
            final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."
            Harold goes on to remind ECKists that, "The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad,
            Book Two, says: 'The Maulani is the one who sacrifices everything
            for his fellow ECKists, for if it is necessary for him to put
            himself in debt for them, or share their cell in prison, it must be
            done." Hey Harold, what ever happened to self-responsibility and
            karmic lessons for these other ECKists? And, what else might you ask
            them to sacrifice?

            Prometheus



            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
            > Hi Leigh,
            >
            > Yes I can. However, I'll have to look through some books first in
            > order to give the exact quote, book title, and page number. Harold
            > himself mentions what Marge had said to him. Harold and Darwin had
            > been meeting now and then in a Sound Proof Dark Room where Harold
            > worked when developing prints for Eckankar publications. This
            event
            > with Marge took place after Darwin had given Harold the 9th
            > Initiation in preparation for him to take over as L.E.M. in 1980.
            > However, the power transfer was delayed for one year and Harold
            was
            > disappointed and was acting impatient. Marge said to Harold
            > something like, Why can't you just be happy with being an ECK
            Master?
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh"
            > <lgrif@m...> wrote:
            > > HK was in a hurry to become the L.E.M.
            > > > (via Darwin Gross) according to his first wife,
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Prometheus:
            > > Could you expand on this a little bit?
          • prometheus_973
            Hi Again! It s funny how Eckists just tend to accept anything and everything that Klemp has to say. A true believer in Eckankar has accepted HK s position of
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 16, 2005
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              Hi Again!

              It's funny how Eckists just tend to accept anything and everything
              that Klemp has to say. A true believer in Eckankar has accepted HK's
              position of authority over him/her. Therefore, the information HK
              has printed in his books, or other publications, is never questioned
              or critically analyzed. It seems that people tend to overlook
              possible and apparent contradictions as a matter of belief and
              faith. People want to believe, and will see contradictions in terms
              of paradoxes, spiritual tests, or on levels of consciousness beyond
              their limited comprehension. The Eckist seeks answers "As If" they
              already know the results. The delusions are shared, re-enforced, and
              are presented and maintained in a comforting structure.

              For instance: Klemp has stated that Eckankar's Nineth Initiation is
              only given on the inner planes. However, this is only partially
              true. The below criteria, as given in Eckankar's Master 4 Discourses
              Lesson 2 states that there are THREE STAGES to the NINETH!

              HOWEVER, "THE THIRD FINAL PART OF THE NINETH INITIATION OCCURS IN
              THE PHYSICAL WORLD." THEREFORE, HAROLD IS NOT BEING COMPLETELY
              ACCURATE. HK SHOULD STATE THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON BOTH THE INNER
              AND OUTER, OR THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON THE INNER AND IS CONFIRMED
              ON THE OUTER IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THE INITIATION.

              Actually, these types of errors and the confusion they cause (when
              noticed and not automatically accepted) are typical when the
              Eckankar saviors (Twitch, Gross and Klemp) make it up as they go
              along. Actually, it's so typical of con/cult behavior!

              Prometheus



              > Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
              parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
              Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
              imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
              spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
              final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."

              >
              > Prometheus
            • prometheus_973
              Hi All, FYI: I decided to change the subject line in order to fit the topic better, so don t think you re seeing things if you ve already read this. It s
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 17, 2005
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                Hi All,

                FYI: I decided to change the subject line in order to fit the topic
                better, so don't think you're "seeing things" if you've already read
                this.

                It's funny how Eckists just tend to accept anything and everything
                that Klemp has to say. A true believer in Eckankar has accepted HK's
                position of authority over him/her. Therefore, the information HK
                has printed in his books, or other publications, is never questioned
                or critically analyzed. It seems that people tend to overlook
                possible and apparent contradictions as a matter of belief and
                faith. People want to believe, and will see contradictions in terms
                of paradoxes, spiritual tests, or on levels of consciousness beyond
                their limited comprehension. The Eckist seeks answers "As If" they
                already know the results. The delusions are shared, re-enforced, and
                are presented and maintained in a comforting structure.

                For instance: Klemp has stated that Eckankar's Nineth Initiation is
                only given on the inner planes. However, this is only partially
                true. The below criteria, as given in Eckankar's Master 4 Discourses
                Lesson 2 states that there are THREE STAGES to the NINETH!

                HOWEVER, "THE THIRD FINAL PART OF THE NINETH INITIATION OCCURS IN
                THE PHYSICAL WORLD." THEREFORE, HAROLD IS NOT BEING COMPLETELY
                ACCURATE. HK SHOULD STATE THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON BOTH THE INNER
                AND OUTER, OR THAT THE NINETH OCCURS ON THE INNER AND IS CONFIRMED
                ON THE OUTER IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THE INITIATION.

                Actually, these types of errors and the confusion they cause (when
                noticed and not automatically accepted) are typical when the
                Eckankar saviors (Twitch, Gross and Klemp) make it up as they go
                along. Actually, it's so typical of con/cult behavior!

                Prometheus

                p.s.
                Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
                parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
                Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
                imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
                spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
                final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."
              • prometheus_973
                Hello All, FYI: Once again I have changed the subject line in order to be able to find this topic easier for future reference. I checked out the source of my
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 17, 2005
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                  Hello All,

                  FYI: Once again I have changed the subject line in order to be able
                  to find this topic easier for future reference.

                  I checked out the source of my comments and found it in HK's 1987
                  copyright of "Soul Travelers of the Far Country." On page 142 Marge
                  says to Harold, 'Don't worry'... 'You can always be an ECK Master,
                  even if you can't be the Living ECK Master.' On page 143 Harold
                  states that, "More than once my wife tried in vain to cheer me up by
                  saying that it is a blessing to become an ECK Master; why not set my
                  sights on that?" Harold also states that, "From then on I no longer
                  spoke about my inner experiences, and at the time, this strained our
                  marriage badly."

                  Actually, I was wrong about the 9th Initiation date. Harold seems to
                  jump around a lot and specific information is hard to find without
                  extensive reading. However, HK received his 8th (Inner) Initiation
                  on June 14, 1980 and the real outer one on January 27, 1981 (page
                  140). On pages 186-187 HK claims to have received the 9th Initiation
                  on July 22, 1981 (on the Inner), and states that, "Initiations in
                  ECK beyond the 8th are only given on the inner planes." Did he
                  confirm receiving the 9th on the inner with Darwin Gross the 972th
                  L.E.M. and Mahanta? HK seems to leave out this little detail. Maybe
                  Graham and Ford should have kept silent and just lived in the ECK
                  delusion of inner mastership!

                  But, wait! I seem to remember that in the Master 4 Discourses Lesson
                  2 was titled, "The Ninth Initiation." Hmmmm. Well it states that it
                  happens on the inner and that all of the 8ths (other planes included
                  and from other parts of the physical universe) appear as either of
                  the white or yellow race as they gather at this special spiritual
                  retreat.

                  "White signifies the active path of the extrovert" (they still have
                  egos?). "Yellow stands for its counterpoint: the path of indirection
                  (not passivity), the method of subtlety rather than easy-to-discern
                  outer behavior." Wow, HK really had to go into detail for the
                  indirect (nonreactive) yellow race thing! The HUK sound wave is sent
                  to the candidate for the 9th Initiation. "In the last phase the
                  Mahanta, the Living ECK Master confirms the initiation by some outer
                  means. Oops, I guess Graham should have just kept silent and waited
                  and waited and waited... just like others do for that outer
                  confirmation. As above so below, or is it really as below so above?
                  Actually, does an above (up) and below (down) really make sense!
                  This is just more eckie brain washing just like the acting "AS IF"
                  thing is!

                  Anyway, a review of the Nineth Initiation is that it has three
                  parts: "First is the inner experience of the initiate, who meets the
                  Mahanta at the mountain of Agam Lok." Delusion and creative
                  imagination with an Eckankar only focus. Second is "the retreat with
                  spiritual contests." Fun and games for everyone! Wheeee! "Third the
                  final part of the Ninth Initiation occurs in the physical world."
                  Harold goes on to remind ECKists that, "The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad,
                  Book Two, says: 'The Maulani is the one who sacrifices everything
                  for his fellow ECKists, for if it is necessary for him to put
                  himself in debt for them, or share their cell in prison, it must be
                  done." Hey Harold, what ever happened to self-responsibility and
                  karmic lessons for these other ECKists? And, what else might you ask
                  them to sacrifice?

                  Prometheus
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