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Re: ECKISTS NEED TO BE DEAF, DUMB, & BLIND TO FOLLOW KLEMP

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Sandra, Welcome to the site and thanks for the nice compliments to the posters here. I ll comment on what you have posted. Sandra wrote: Good Morning
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 3, 2006
      Hi Sandra,
      Welcome to the site and thanks for the nice compliments to the
      posters here. I'll comment on what you have posted.

      Sandra wrote:

      Good Morning everyone,

      First I would like to say that I have been lurking and reading from
      this group for several months. I need to apologize to the group
      owner for being guilty of cross posting some of the excellent
      messages from this group, to another Yahoo group I belong to.

      Me: No need to apologize for cross-posting. This is the Internet and
      if someone wants to cross-post for whatever reason then that's just
      the way it is. I'm always amused at people who think that someone
      needs permission to share what they have already sent into the
      ethers.

      I never joined Eckankar Survivors Anonymous because I just didn't
      really have anything to say. Yet, the title of this post, and it's
      message compelled me to officially join.

      Me: It's okay to just read. There are other sites that I don't
      participate on. When I was an Eckist I used to share some Vahana
      ideas and some thoughts about things on the official/unofficial Eck
      sites and stopped because the Eckists there were disrespectful and
      mean spirited. Actually, it helped to confirm what I already knew
      (deep down inside). How could these people truly be of the same or
      higher circle of initiation than me? This ongoing observation made
      me question the validity of the Eck initiations even more so!

      There is an amazing amount of information on the internet concerning
      Eckankar. And I recently was introduced to the 360 yahoo blogs by an
      Eckist named TomG. So, I have to agree that these blogs, and member
      sites are all very worthy of a look.

      Me: Yes, these blogs are interesting. I wonder how involved that
      Steve R. is with them? This TomG sounds familiar. I might have met
      him at a regional in Richmond, VA.

      I am still an Eck member, for over 17 years. Yes I do point out the
      flaws of Eckankar. Though I now consider myself a researcher for
      spiritual truth.

      Me: Good for you! I'm in touch with several Eckists and some are
      heretics of sorts on the outer because they see the "Mahanta" as
      something beyond Klemp and his authority. One H.I. even sends me
      copies of her Eck pubs. She reads this site and sends me private
      emails but will not post. That's okay too. It's funny that she puts
      up with all that I have to say, but she thinks that the balance is
      needed and doesn't like all of the secrecy (absence of discussion),
      the RESA intimidation, the military structure (hierarchy) and the
      fear factor of being Black Listed or the forcing of guideline upon
      guideline on individuals and upon the local Eck Centers, along with
      other spoken and unspoken rules, etc. Afterall, Eckankar started for
      many as a Spiritual Path versus a Religion. Now Eckankar resembles
      Christianity - which many of us rejected long ago! I hope I summed
      that up well enough? : )

      My heart is still somewhat with the teachings. As I still find some
      truth hidden within the passages of Paul Twitchell's material.
      Although the more I research, the more I find, other peoples
      knowledge being called Eckankar.

      Me: This is true with seeking Truth. Twitchell took from Radhasoami
      and other religions and Westernized (altered it). There are some
      good points and ideas out there to get us to reflect and to exert
      some discipline and change. This is what a social setting with
      feedback and an organized structure does. However, there is also a
      lot of crap in this environment and people who are not as advanced
      or focused upon the Spiritual. They seek to be stars or to be
      noticed by others. They have not come close to controlling the ego
      and yet they are H.I.s! This is why the true seeker much discover
      their own Mastership and walk with SPIRIT and SOUL - and not depend
      on someone else out of fear and Self doubt.

      I am trying to keep a rational objective thinking mind, as so many
      here keep reminding us. Though I am sure many Eckist do not see me
      in that way? Maybe, I will fit in just fine here at Eckankar
      Survivors Anonymous?

      Me: It sounds like you will fit-in. However, one must find what
      works for them and at the same time continue to explore with an open
      mind that questions authority. We should become our own Authority!

      Please join me at my 360 Yahoo page at:

      http://360.yahoo.com/eckscholar

      Me: Okay, I will!

      I have met a couple Eckist friends there from a very long time ago.
      Maybe more of us can hook up?

      Me: Well, that sounds okay, however, I'm still in the "anonymous"
      mode and don't want to reveal too much about me or my Eck friends.

      Prometheus

      Prometheus wrote:

      Hi There!
      It is interesting to read the Eckie blogs or the member sites and
      see how they hide from the truth in their narrow and fearful little
      minds. Yes, it is Not permitted to speak of Darwin or what happened
      in the 10 lost years of Eckankar from 1971-81. Klemp will only
      speake of the end of Darwin's membership and mastership (the two go
      hand-in-hand).

      Is Eckankar a cult/scam? Sure, just read some of the LINKS. The very
      first one has a lot of info and there are other links too! Check out
      the SHARIYAT/Path of the Masters link.

      Does the SHARIYAT threaten Eckists to ASTRAL HELLS if they want to
      leave? Well, yes! Now does that sound like something a cult would
      do? Well, yes again!

      Did Twitchell make it all up including Rebazar? Yes again! Klemp
      mentions that Twitchell often "twisted facts." And Twit lied about
      meeting Sudar in India in 1935 at the age of 27 when he was lying
      about everything to get into Kentucky's Who's Who. Klemp points
      this out in the P.T. info on Eckankar.org.

      Is Klemp perfect and was Twitchell or Gross perfect? Well, is the
      Mahanta perfect? They claim(ed) to be the Mahanta who (Twit said)
      was the incarnation of the SUGMAD. Even a 5th Initiate is higher
      than "God" and therefore (in their minds as well) more perfect than
      the lowly uninitiated masses.

      Is Doug Marman an expert and an authority on everything including
      Eckankar? Doug has a lot of opinions and likes to claim Klemp as a
      friend, but he has stated that he thought Rebazar was a myth. In
      other words he thinks Twitchell made it all up!

      Basically, Eckists just accept anything and everything that Klemp
      tells them to believe in. They need to believe in something so why
      not in Klemp or Eckankar? However, they really really need to keep
      paying that yearly membership donation fee because Eckists are
      always hoping they get that next initiation or position and they
      have to be current with that money. BUT even at that, 99.99% of
      the 7ths are just out of luck on ever getting an 8th Initiation (on
      the outer- LOL! -in this lifetime).

      So, why remain in Eckankar? Well, it beats nothing! People have to
      follow someone or something don't they? Besides, there's the
      social/relationship aspect too right? What would happen to their Eck
      friends or family members if they left? What would Eckists do with
      their free time if they were no longer in Eckankar and servants of
      their Mahanta?

      (revised)
      Hmmmmmm. Maybe Eckists need to be free to be their own Masters.
      Afterall, how long do they need to be followers? Aren't they
      learning anything about Self-Mastery or Spiritual Freedom? One
      doesn't need to join the H.I. club (RESA hierarchy) like everyone
      else do they? AND, aren't there other people in the world who are
      already of a Higher Consciousness (God-Realized) without the "Eck"
      initiations? Sure, there are plenty of people that are much more
      enlightened that Klemp or the average H.I. or even the "true" blue
      H.I.s! Eckists need to look around and they will see! These are
      FACTS and more reasons why Eckankar is all a lie! Eckists just don't
      think things through - many are as brain-washed as the religious
      fundamentalists!

      Prometheus
    • Elizabeth
      ... *** A belated welcome to the group Sandy H. I can relate to your story somewhat. I was a member for 30 years but would say the last few months as a
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 6, 2006
        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra"
        <eckscholar@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am still an Eck member, for over 17 years. Yes I do point out the
        > flaws of Eckankar. Though I now consider myself a researcher for
        > spiritual truth.
        >

        *** A belated welcome to the group Sandy H. I can relate to your
        story somewhat. I was a member for 30 years but would say the last
        few months as a member, I realized in my heart I should have left
        the path years before. I too did some research, and came to a
        similar conclusion as you.


        > My heart is still somewhat with the teachings. As I still find
        some truth hidden within the passages of Paul Twitchell's material.
        Although the more I research, the more I find, other peoples
        knowledge being called Eckankar.


        *** LOL yes isn't that a joke? Paul Twitchell did in fact lift
        passages (more than what the Eck thugs want most to believe as I am
        sure you have discovered) from numerous spiritual paths and
        teachers, calling it Eckankar. Then Harold Klemp continues the lie
        by explaining that anyone (usually a godman or religious scholar,
        guru or master) can go and read from the great book of spiritual BS,
        located at the Astral Library. Why would Paul Twitchell go to a
        lower Astral Library to gather spiritual truth?

        HK also claims that Paul was tasked with re gathering the teachings
        from all four corners of the universe, and bringing it to the
        waiting public. Claiming too that Eckankar went underground for
        years, and that it was even called something else at one time!?
        LOL They sure wouldn't want that to happen again now would they?

        >
        > I am trying to keep a rational objective thinking mind, as so many
        > here keep reminding us. Though I am sure many Eckist do not see me
        > in that way? Maybe, I will fit in just fine here at Eckankar
        > Survivors Anonymous?


        Watch how the Eckists will now call you a detractor! Sandy, I
        looked at your 360, and if I know some of these Eck Thugs correctly,
        you are now among the ranks of the Kal force, losers and weeds....

        Here are some of the comments from those highly evolved Chosen Ones:


        "Perhaps *detractors* of Eckankar are the way they (we) are because
        they are living in a spiritual desert."

        "It's not like they (detractors)have some magical power or anything.
        <grinning>"

        *** Hmmmm, wonder what that means? <VBG> Oh I bet it means we had
        all of our initiations stripped and our awareness removed (human
        intelligence kicked in) and we are now bodies walking around with
        retarded souls.... LOL we have no substance or spiritual
        enlightenment! What a cosmic joke eh?

        "And who knows what they (detractors)have experienced in past lives,
        either as Spiritual seekers or oppressors or or or ........."

        *** Or or or what captain underpants? Isn't it funny how these
        Higher Initiates think they are far more superior.... they never
        were a detractor in a past life I bet? Only spiritual beings
        advancing each life time to become enlightened, and God realized.

        "I think it is important to remember that these folks (detractors)
        are working from Human intelligence, and not from the intelligence
        of soul. When one Thinks and writes and speaks with the intelligence
        of soul, the Individual is enlightening, uplifting, engaging, and
        carries with them The rhythm or cadence of words that speak to our
        innermost being. Thus it is easy to dismiss the words of those who
        speak from what is only of the mind or from what is only found in
        the lower worlds."

        "My problem with detractors is that I pick up the
        Vibrations they put out when they were writing or
        Taping their viewpoints. I can read only a little bit
        Before my insides start churning."


        "While the ECK cannot be harmed by words, it can complicate vahana
        Efforts to have detractors bad mouthing the Mahanta and the ECK
        works. Or maybe it serves a purpose, helping to prune the tree, so
        to speak."

        *** LOL well Autumn is coming up, as well as the World Wide. Harold
        neds a little help pruning his trees and weeds...

        "The only Thing they (us detractors) "know" is 1) what David lane
        wrote about as a student over 30 years ago, and 2) all the gossip
        that has evolved over the years From disgruntled former members with
        nothing else to do with their Time! <shrug> That's why it's
        important for people to feel free to ask On groups such as this one,
        about anything that they come across that Causes them alarm!
        Personally I feel if these detractors "knew" Anything at all, they
        wouldn't be "detractors" in the first place!"


        *** OUCH! My stomach is just churning from these nasty words coming
        from the chosen ones.


        "I once asked someone who works at the ECK Spiritual
        Center what they thought of the online detractors. The reply was that
        Frankly, they are too busy working to pay much attention."


        *** Well I beg to differ! They do in fact read from each and every
        anti Eck group, including the unofficial, official Eck chat groups!
        They have someone specifically do this and other mundane minimum
        wage paying jobs.


        >
        > Please join me at my 360 Yahoo page at:
        >
        > http://360.yahoo.com/eckscholar


        Thanks for the invite Sandy, I will email an invite for you to join
        mine too!

        Keep researching, and sharing your finds.

        Liz
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