Re: ECKISTS NEED TO BE DEAF, DUMB, & BLIND TO FOLLOW KLEMP
- Hi Sandra,
Welcome to the site and thanks for the nice compliments to the
posters here. I'll comment on what you have posted.
Good Morning everyone,
First I would like to say that I have been lurking and reading from
this group for several months. I need to apologize to the group
owner for being guilty of cross posting some of the excellent
messages from this group, to another Yahoo group I belong to.
Me: No need to apologize for cross-posting. This is the Internet and
if someone wants to cross-post for whatever reason then that's just
the way it is. I'm always amused at people who think that someone
needs permission to share what they have already sent into the
I never joined Eckankar Survivors Anonymous because I just didn't
really have anything to say. Yet, the title of this post, and it's
message compelled me to officially join.
Me: It's okay to just read. There are other sites that I don't
participate on. When I was an Eckist I used to share some Vahana
ideas and some thoughts about things on the official/unofficial Eck
sites and stopped because the Eckists there were disrespectful and
mean spirited. Actually, it helped to confirm what I already knew
(deep down inside). How could these people truly be of the same or
higher circle of initiation than me? This ongoing observation made
me question the validity of the Eck initiations even more so!
There is an amazing amount of information on the internet concerning
Eckankar. And I recently was introduced to the 360 yahoo blogs by an
Eckist named TomG. So, I have to agree that these blogs, and member
sites are all very worthy of a look.
Me: Yes, these blogs are interesting. I wonder how involved that
Steve R. is with them? This TomG sounds familiar. I might have met
him at a regional in Richmond, VA.
I am still an Eck member, for over 17 years. Yes I do point out the
flaws of Eckankar. Though I now consider myself a researcher for
Me: Good for you! I'm in touch with several Eckists and some are
heretics of sorts on the outer because they see the "Mahanta" as
something beyond Klemp and his authority. One H.I. even sends me
copies of her Eck pubs. She reads this site and sends me private
emails but will not post. That's okay too. It's funny that she puts
up with all that I have to say, but she thinks that the balance is
needed and doesn't like all of the secrecy (absence of discussion),
the RESA intimidation, the military structure (hierarchy) and the
fear factor of being Black Listed or the forcing of guideline upon
guideline on individuals and upon the local Eck Centers, along with
other spoken and unspoken rules, etc. Afterall, Eckankar started for
many as a Spiritual Path versus a Religion. Now Eckankar resembles
Christianity - which many of us rejected long ago! I hope I summed
that up well enough? : )
My heart is still somewhat with the teachings. As I still find some
truth hidden within the passages of Paul Twitchell's material.
Although the more I research, the more I find, other peoples
knowledge being called Eckankar.
Me: This is true with seeking Truth. Twitchell took from Radhasoami
and other religions and Westernized (altered it). There are some
good points and ideas out there to get us to reflect and to exert
some discipline and change. This is what a social setting with
feedback and an organized structure does. However, there is also a
lot of crap in this environment and people who are not as advanced
or focused upon the Spiritual. They seek to be stars or to be
noticed by others. They have not come close to controlling the ego
and yet they are H.I.s! This is why the true seeker much discover
their own Mastership and walk with SPIRIT and SOUL - and not depend
on someone else out of fear and Self doubt.
I am trying to keep a rational objective thinking mind, as so many
here keep reminding us. Though I am sure many Eckist do not see me
in that way? Maybe, I will fit in just fine here at Eckankar
Me: It sounds like you will fit-in. However, one must find what
works for them and at the same time continue to explore with an open
mind that questions authority. We should become our own Authority!
Please join me at my 360 Yahoo page at:
Me: Okay, I will!
I have met a couple Eckist friends there from a very long time ago.
Maybe more of us can hook up?
Me: Well, that sounds okay, however, I'm still in the "anonymous"
mode and don't want to reveal too much about me or my Eck friends.
It is interesting to read the Eckie blogs or the member sites and
see how they hide from the truth in their narrow and fearful little
minds. Yes, it is Not permitted to speak of Darwin or what happened
in the 10 lost years of Eckankar from 1971-81. Klemp will only
speake of the end of Darwin's membership and mastership (the two go
Is Eckankar a cult/scam? Sure, just read some of the LINKS. The very
first one has a lot of info and there are other links too! Check out
the SHARIYAT/Path of the Masters link.
Does the SHARIYAT threaten Eckists to ASTRAL HELLS if they want to
leave? Well, yes! Now does that sound like something a cult would
do? Well, yes again!
Did Twitchell make it all up including Rebazar? Yes again! Klemp
mentions that Twitchell often "twisted facts." And Twit lied about
meeting Sudar in India in 1935 at the age of 27 when he was lying
about everything to get into Kentucky's Who's Who. Klemp points
this out in the P.T. info on Eckankar.org.
Is Klemp perfect and was Twitchell or Gross perfect? Well, is the
Mahanta perfect? They claim(ed) to be the Mahanta who (Twit said)
was the incarnation of the SUGMAD. Even a 5th Initiate is higher
than "God" and therefore (in their minds as well) more perfect than
the lowly uninitiated masses.
Is Doug Marman an expert and an authority on everything including
Eckankar? Doug has a lot of opinions and likes to claim Klemp as a
friend, but he has stated that he thought Rebazar was a myth. In
other words he thinks Twitchell made it all up!
Basically, Eckists just accept anything and everything that Klemp
tells them to believe in. They need to believe in something so why
not in Klemp or Eckankar? However, they really really need to keep
paying that yearly membership donation fee because Eckists are
always hoping they get that next initiation or position and they
have to be current with that money. BUT even at that, 99.99% of
the 7ths are just out of luck on ever getting an 8th Initiation (on
the outer- LOL! -in this lifetime).
So, why remain in Eckankar? Well, it beats nothing! People have to
follow someone or something don't they? Besides, there's the
social/relationship aspect too right? What would happen to their Eck
friends or family members if they left? What would Eckists do with
their free time if they were no longer in Eckankar and servants of
Hmmmmmm. Maybe Eckists need to be free to be their own Masters.
Afterall, how long do they need to be followers? Aren't they
learning anything about Self-Mastery or Spiritual Freedom? One
doesn't need to join the H.I. club (RESA hierarchy) like everyone
else do they? AND, aren't there other people in the world who are
already of a Higher Consciousness (God-Realized) without the "Eck"
initiations? Sure, there are plenty of people that are much more
enlightened that Klemp or the average H.I. or even the "true" blue
H.I.s! Eckists need to look around and they will see! These are
FACTS and more reasons why Eckankar is all a lie! Eckists just don't
think things through - many are as brain-washed as the religious
- --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra"
>*** A belated welcome to the group Sandy H. I can relate to your
> I am still an Eck member, for over 17 years. Yes I do point out the
> flaws of Eckankar. Though I now consider myself a researcher for
> spiritual truth.
story somewhat. I was a member for 30 years but would say the last
few months as a member, I realized in my heart I should have left
the path years before. I too did some research, and came to a
similar conclusion as you.
> My heart is still somewhat with the teachings. As I still findsome truth hidden within the passages of Paul Twitchell's material.
Although the more I research, the more I find, other peoples
knowledge being called Eckankar.
*** LOL yes isn't that a joke? Paul Twitchell did in fact lift
passages (more than what the Eck thugs want most to believe as I am
sure you have discovered) from numerous spiritual paths and
teachers, calling it Eckankar. Then Harold Klemp continues the lie
by explaining that anyone (usually a godman or religious scholar,
guru or master) can go and read from the great book of spiritual BS,
located at the Astral Library. Why would Paul Twitchell go to a
lower Astral Library to gather spiritual truth?
HK also claims that Paul was tasked with re gathering the teachings
from all four corners of the universe, and bringing it to the
waiting public. Claiming too that Eckankar went underground for
years, and that it was even called something else at one time!?
LOL They sure wouldn't want that to happen again now would they?
>Watch how the Eckists will now call you a detractor! Sandy, I
> I am trying to keep a rational objective thinking mind, as so many
> here keep reminding us. Though I am sure many Eckist do not see me
> in that way? Maybe, I will fit in just fine here at Eckankar
> Survivors Anonymous?
looked at your 360, and if I know some of these Eck Thugs correctly,
you are now among the ranks of the Kal force, losers and weeds....
Here are some of the comments from those highly evolved Chosen Ones:
"Perhaps *detractors* of Eckankar are the way they (we) are because
they are living in a spiritual desert."
"It's not like they (detractors)have some magical power or anything.
*** Hmmmm, wonder what that means? <VBG> Oh I bet it means we had
all of our initiations stripped and our awareness removed (human
intelligence kicked in) and we are now bodies walking around with
retarded souls.... LOL we have no substance or spiritual
enlightenment! What a cosmic joke eh?
"And who knows what they (detractors)have experienced in past lives,
either as Spiritual seekers or oppressors or or or ........."
*** Or or or what captain underpants? Isn't it funny how these
Higher Initiates think they are far more superior.... they never
were a detractor in a past life I bet? Only spiritual beings
advancing each life time to become enlightened, and God realized.
"I think it is important to remember that these folks (detractors)
are working from Human intelligence, and not from the intelligence
of soul. When one Thinks and writes and speaks with the intelligence
of soul, the Individual is enlightening, uplifting, engaging, and
carries with them The rhythm or cadence of words that speak to our
innermost being. Thus it is easy to dismiss the words of those who
speak from what is only of the mind or from what is only found in
the lower worlds."
"My problem with detractors is that I pick up the
Vibrations they put out when they were writing or
Taping their viewpoints. I can read only a little bit
Before my insides start churning."
"While the ECK cannot be harmed by words, it can complicate vahana
Efforts to have detractors bad mouthing the Mahanta and the ECK
works. Or maybe it serves a purpose, helping to prune the tree, so
*** LOL well Autumn is coming up, as well as the World Wide. Harold
neds a little help pruning his trees and weeds...
"The only Thing they (us detractors) "know" is 1) what David lane
wrote about as a student over 30 years ago, and 2) all the gossip
that has evolved over the years From disgruntled former members with
nothing else to do with their Time! <shrug> That's why it's
important for people to feel free to ask On groups such as this one,
about anything that they come across that Causes them alarm!
Personally I feel if these detractors "knew" Anything at all, they
wouldn't be "detractors" in the first place!"
*** OUCH! My stomach is just churning from these nasty words coming
from the chosen ones.
"I once asked someone who works at the ECK Spiritual
Center what they thought of the online detractors. The reply was that
Frankly, they are too busy working to pay much attention."
*** Well I beg to differ! They do in fact read from each and every
anti Eck group, including the unofficial, official Eck chat groups!
They have someone specifically do this and other mundane minimum
wage paying jobs.
>Thanks for the invite Sandy, I will email an invite for you to join
> Please join me at my 360 Yahoo page at:
Keep researching, and sharing your finds.