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ECKISTS NEED TO BE DEAF, DUMB, & BLIND TO FOLLOW KLEMP

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi There! It is interesting to read the Eckie blogs or the member sites and see how they hide from the truth in their narrow and fearful little minds. Yes, it
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 2, 2006
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      Hi There!
      It is interesting to read the Eckie blogs or the member sites and
      see how they hide from the truth in their narrow and fearful little
      minds. Yes, it is Not permitted to speak of Darwin or what happened
      in the 10 lost years of Eckankar from 1971-81. Klemp will only
      speake of the end of Darwin's membership and mastership (the two go
      hand-in-hand).

      Is Eckankar a cult/scam? Sure, just read some of the LINKS. The very
      first one has a lot of info and there are other links too! Check out
      the SHARIYAT/Path of the Masters link.

      Does the SHARIYAT threaten Eckists to ASTRAL HELLS if they want to
      leave? Well, yes! Now does that sound like something a cult would
      do? Well, yes again!

      Did Twitchell make it all up including Rebazar? Yes again! Klemp
      mentions that Twitchell often "twisted facts." And Twit lied about
      meeting Sudar in India in 1935 at the age of 27 when he was lying
      about everything to get into Kentucky's Who's Who. Klemp points this
      out in the P.T. info on Eckankar.org.

      Is Klemp perfect and was Twitchell or Gross perfect? Well, is the
      Mahanta perfect? They claim(ed) to be the Mahanta who (Twit said)
      was the incarnation of the SUGMAD. Even a 5th Initiate is higher
      than "God" and therefore (in their minds as well) more perfect than
      the lowly uninitiated masses.

      Is Doug Marman an expert and an authority on everything including
      Eckankar? Doug has a lot of opinions and likes to claim Klemp as a
      friend, but he has stated that he thought Rebazar was a myth. In
      other words he thinks Twitchell made it all up!

      Basically, Eckists just accept anything and everything that Klemp
      tells them to believe in. They need to believe in something so why
      not in Klemp or Eckankar? However, they really really need to keep
      paying that yearly membership donation fee because Eckists are
      always hoping they get that next initiation or position and they
      have to be current with that money. BUT even at that, 99.99% of the
      7ths are just out of luck on ever getting an 8th Initiation (on the
      outer- LOL! -in this lifetime).

      So, why remain in Eckankar? Well, it beats nothing! People have to
      follow someone or something don't they? Besides, there's the
      social/relationship aspect too right? What would happen to their Eck
      friends or family members if they left? What would Eckists do with
      their free time if they were no longer in Eckankar and servants of
      their Mahanta?

      Hmmmmmm. Maybe Eckists would be free to be their own Master.
      Afterall, how long do they need to be followers? Aren't they
      learning anything about Self-Mastery or Spiritual Freedom? One
      doesn't need to join the H.I. club like everyone else do they?
      Aren't there people who are already of a higher consciousness
      without the "Eck" initiations? Sure, there are plenty of people that
      are more enlightened that the average H.I. or even the "true" blue
      H.I.s! See! This is one more reason why it's all a lie!

      Prometheus




      IS DARWIN GROSS AN ECK MASTER?

      mishmisha wrote:

      Hi, All!

      This is indeed an interesting post about the bogus eck masters and
      what the eckankar org claim in their made-up religious scam. It
      seems they talk out of both sides of their mouth. There are
      certainly a lot of restrictions. I was looking at the list of dos
      and don'ts for posting on HuChat the other day--how in the world can
      anyone remember all of that???? So silly really to be telling adults
      how to post, what to post and what not to post--and yet these same
      eckists will claim that they are free to do pretty much what they
      want as long as it follows the guidelines. But there are so many
      guidelines! And if one of the eck leaders--H.I.s don't like
      something that is said or done, they can always dredge up some rule
      and chastise the offender, just as they were indeed bothered by the
      eckist asking about Darwin Gross--wow, how dare he dirty up an eck
      worship service by mentioning this miscreant's name and maybe have
      newbies question this bit of eck history! LOL!

      Eckists need to think for themselves here--why must Darwin Gross be
      kept a secret?? Why the cover-up? Doesn't that seem fishy?

      I certainly agree there are no eck masters--if there were, they
      certainly wouldn't stoop so low as to fight over God! Paul
      Twitchell, Darwin Gross, Harold Klemp and that short list of masters
      they claim you can conjure up, are just fakes. They steal people's
      spiritual freedom by distracting them from taking a true spiritual
      path by tying them up in dogma and bogus religious nonsense! What an
      eckist learns from all the "eck" stories and spiritual exercises is
      how to become delusional and brain-washed.

      BTW, this is exactly what a cult will do--and is a basic way of
      controlling people! They do not help individuals to find spiritual
      freedom; rather, they rob them of it instead and impede spiritual
      growth.

      For sure, eckists and Klemp in particular should be concerned about
      the karmic repercussions of such deceptions and impediments!

      Mish
    • Sandra
      Good Morning everyone, First I would like to say that I have been lurking and reading from this group for several months. I need to apologize to the group
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 3, 2006
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        Good Morning everyone,

        First I would like to say that I have been lurking and reading from
        this group for several months. I need to apologize to the group
        owner for being guilty of cross posting some of the excellent
        messages from this group, to another Yahoo group I belong to.

        I never joined Eckankar Survivors Anonymous because I just didn't
        really have anything to say. Yet, the title of this post, and it's
        message compelled me to officially join.

        There is an amazing amount of information on the internet concerning
        Eckankar. And I recently was introduced to the 360 yahoo blogs by an
        Eckist named TomG. So, I have to agree that these blogs, and member
        sites are all very worthy of a look.

        I am still an Eck member, for over 17 years. Yes I do point out the
        flaws of Eckankar. Though I now consider myself a researcher for
        spiritual truth.

        My heart is still somewhat with the teachings. As I still find some
        truth hidden within the passages of Paul Twitchell's material.
        Although the more I research, the more I find, other peoples
        knowledge being called Eckankar.

        I am trying to keep a rational objective thinking mind, as so many
        here keep reminding us. Though I am sure many Eckist do not see me
        in that way? Maybe, I will fit in just fine here at Eckankar
        Survivors Anonymous?

        Please join me at my 360 Yahoo page at:

        http://360.yahoo.com/eckscholar

        I have met a couple Eckist friends there from a very long time ago.
        Maybe more of us can hook up?

        Sandy H


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi There!
        > It is interesting to read the Eckie blogs or the member sites and
        > see how they hide from the truth in their narrow and fearful
        little
        > minds. Yes, it is Not permitted to speak of Darwin or what
        happened
        > in the 10 lost years of Eckankar from 1971-81. Klemp will only
        > speake of the end of Darwin's membership and mastership (the two
        go
        > hand-in-hand).
        >
        > Is Eckankar a cult/scam? Sure, just read some of the LINKS. The
        very
        > first one has a lot of info and there are other links too! Check
        out
        > the SHARIYAT/Path of the Masters link.
        >
        > Does the SHARIYAT threaten Eckists to ASTRAL HELLS if they want to
        > leave? Well, yes! Now does that sound like something a cult would
        > do? Well, yes again!
        >
        > Did Twitchell make it all up including Rebazar? Yes again! Klemp
        > mentions that Twitchell often "twisted facts." And Twit lied about
        > meeting Sudar in India in 1935 at the age of 27 when he was lying
        > about everything to get into Kentucky's Who's Who. Klemp points
        this
        > out in the P.T. info on Eckankar.org.
        >
        > Is Klemp perfect and was Twitchell or Gross perfect? Well, is the
        > Mahanta perfect? They claim(ed) to be the Mahanta who (Twit said)
        > was the incarnation of the SUGMAD. Even a 5th Initiate is higher
        > than "God" and therefore (in their minds as well) more perfect
        than
        > the lowly uninitiated masses.
        >
        > Is Doug Marman an expert and an authority on everything including
        > Eckankar? Doug has a lot of opinions and likes to claim Klemp as a
        > friend, but he has stated that he thought Rebazar was a myth. In
        > other words he thinks Twitchell made it all up!
        >
        > Basically, Eckists just accept anything and everything that Klemp
        > tells them to believe in. They need to believe in something so why
        > not in Klemp or Eckankar? However, they really really need to keep
        > paying that yearly membership donation fee because Eckists are
        > always hoping they get that next initiation or position and they
        > have to be current with that money. BUT even at that, 99.99% of
        the
        > 7ths are just out of luck on ever getting an 8th Initiation (on
        the
        > outer- LOL! -in this lifetime).
        >
        > So, why remain in Eckankar? Well, it beats nothing! People have to
        > follow someone or something don't they? Besides, there's the
        > social/relationship aspect too right? What would happen to their
        Eck
        > friends or family members if they left? What would Eckists do with
        > their free time if they were no longer in Eckankar and servants of
        > their Mahanta?
        >
        > Hmmmmmm. Maybe Eckists would be free to be their own Master.
        > Afterall, how long do they need to be followers? Aren't they
        > learning anything about Self-Mastery or Spiritual Freedom? One
        > doesn't need to join the H.I. club like everyone else do they?
        > Aren't there people who are already of a higher consciousness
        > without the "Eck" initiations? Sure, there are plenty of people
        that
        > are more enlightened that the average H.I. or even the "true" blue
        > H.I.s! See! This is one more reason why it's all a lie!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Sandra, Welcome to the site and thanks for the nice compliments to the posters here. I ll comment on what you have posted. Sandra wrote: Good Morning
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 3, 2006
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          Hi Sandra,
          Welcome to the site and thanks for the nice compliments to the
          posters here. I'll comment on what you have posted.

          Sandra wrote:

          Good Morning everyone,

          First I would like to say that I have been lurking and reading from
          this group for several months. I need to apologize to the group
          owner for being guilty of cross posting some of the excellent
          messages from this group, to another Yahoo group I belong to.

          Me: No need to apologize for cross-posting. This is the Internet and
          if someone wants to cross-post for whatever reason then that's just
          the way it is. I'm always amused at people who think that someone
          needs permission to share what they have already sent into the
          ethers.

          I never joined Eckankar Survivors Anonymous because I just didn't
          really have anything to say. Yet, the title of this post, and it's
          message compelled me to officially join.

          Me: It's okay to just read. There are other sites that I don't
          participate on. When I was an Eckist I used to share some Vahana
          ideas and some thoughts about things on the official/unofficial Eck
          sites and stopped because the Eckists there were disrespectful and
          mean spirited. Actually, it helped to confirm what I already knew
          (deep down inside). How could these people truly be of the same or
          higher circle of initiation than me? This ongoing observation made
          me question the validity of the Eck initiations even more so!

          There is an amazing amount of information on the internet concerning
          Eckankar. And I recently was introduced to the 360 yahoo blogs by an
          Eckist named TomG. So, I have to agree that these blogs, and member
          sites are all very worthy of a look.

          Me: Yes, these blogs are interesting. I wonder how involved that
          Steve R. is with them? This TomG sounds familiar. I might have met
          him at a regional in Richmond, VA.

          I am still an Eck member, for over 17 years. Yes I do point out the
          flaws of Eckankar. Though I now consider myself a researcher for
          spiritual truth.

          Me: Good for you! I'm in touch with several Eckists and some are
          heretics of sorts on the outer because they see the "Mahanta" as
          something beyond Klemp and his authority. One H.I. even sends me
          copies of her Eck pubs. She reads this site and sends me private
          emails but will not post. That's okay too. It's funny that she puts
          up with all that I have to say, but she thinks that the balance is
          needed and doesn't like all of the secrecy (absence of discussion),
          the RESA intimidation, the military structure (hierarchy) and the
          fear factor of being Black Listed or the forcing of guideline upon
          guideline on individuals and upon the local Eck Centers, along with
          other spoken and unspoken rules, etc. Afterall, Eckankar started for
          many as a Spiritual Path versus a Religion. Now Eckankar resembles
          Christianity - which many of us rejected long ago! I hope I summed
          that up well enough? : )

          My heart is still somewhat with the teachings. As I still find some
          truth hidden within the passages of Paul Twitchell's material.
          Although the more I research, the more I find, other peoples
          knowledge being called Eckankar.

          Me: This is true with seeking Truth. Twitchell took from Radhasoami
          and other religions and Westernized (altered it). There are some
          good points and ideas out there to get us to reflect and to exert
          some discipline and change. This is what a social setting with
          feedback and an organized structure does. However, there is also a
          lot of crap in this environment and people who are not as advanced
          or focused upon the Spiritual. They seek to be stars or to be
          noticed by others. They have not come close to controlling the ego
          and yet they are H.I.s! This is why the true seeker much discover
          their own Mastership and walk with SPIRIT and SOUL - and not depend
          on someone else out of fear and Self doubt.

          I am trying to keep a rational objective thinking mind, as so many
          here keep reminding us. Though I am sure many Eckist do not see me
          in that way? Maybe, I will fit in just fine here at Eckankar
          Survivors Anonymous?

          Me: It sounds like you will fit-in. However, one must find what
          works for them and at the same time continue to explore with an open
          mind that questions authority. We should become our own Authority!

          Please join me at my 360 Yahoo page at:

          http://360.yahoo.com/eckscholar

          Me: Okay, I will!

          I have met a couple Eckist friends there from a very long time ago.
          Maybe more of us can hook up?

          Me: Well, that sounds okay, however, I'm still in the "anonymous"
          mode and don't want to reveal too much about me or my Eck friends.

          Prometheus

          Prometheus wrote:

          Hi There!
          It is interesting to read the Eckie blogs or the member sites and
          see how they hide from the truth in their narrow and fearful little
          minds. Yes, it is Not permitted to speak of Darwin or what happened
          in the 10 lost years of Eckankar from 1971-81. Klemp will only
          speake of the end of Darwin's membership and mastership (the two go
          hand-in-hand).

          Is Eckankar a cult/scam? Sure, just read some of the LINKS. The very
          first one has a lot of info and there are other links too! Check out
          the SHARIYAT/Path of the Masters link.

          Does the SHARIYAT threaten Eckists to ASTRAL HELLS if they want to
          leave? Well, yes! Now does that sound like something a cult would
          do? Well, yes again!

          Did Twitchell make it all up including Rebazar? Yes again! Klemp
          mentions that Twitchell often "twisted facts." And Twit lied about
          meeting Sudar in India in 1935 at the age of 27 when he was lying
          about everything to get into Kentucky's Who's Who. Klemp points
          this out in the P.T. info on Eckankar.org.

          Is Klemp perfect and was Twitchell or Gross perfect? Well, is the
          Mahanta perfect? They claim(ed) to be the Mahanta who (Twit said)
          was the incarnation of the SUGMAD. Even a 5th Initiate is higher
          than "God" and therefore (in their minds as well) more perfect than
          the lowly uninitiated masses.

          Is Doug Marman an expert and an authority on everything including
          Eckankar? Doug has a lot of opinions and likes to claim Klemp as a
          friend, but he has stated that he thought Rebazar was a myth. In
          other words he thinks Twitchell made it all up!

          Basically, Eckists just accept anything and everything that Klemp
          tells them to believe in. They need to believe in something so why
          not in Klemp or Eckankar? However, they really really need to keep
          paying that yearly membership donation fee because Eckists are
          always hoping they get that next initiation or position and they
          have to be current with that money. BUT even at that, 99.99% of
          the 7ths are just out of luck on ever getting an 8th Initiation (on
          the outer- LOL! -in this lifetime).

          So, why remain in Eckankar? Well, it beats nothing! People have to
          follow someone or something don't they? Besides, there's the
          social/relationship aspect too right? What would happen to their Eck
          friends or family members if they left? What would Eckists do with
          their free time if they were no longer in Eckankar and servants of
          their Mahanta?

          (revised)
          Hmmmmmm. Maybe Eckists need to be free to be their own Masters.
          Afterall, how long do they need to be followers? Aren't they
          learning anything about Self-Mastery or Spiritual Freedom? One
          doesn't need to join the H.I. club (RESA hierarchy) like everyone
          else do they? AND, aren't there other people in the world who are
          already of a Higher Consciousness (God-Realized) without the "Eck"
          initiations? Sure, there are plenty of people that are much more
          enlightened that Klemp or the average H.I. or even the "true" blue
          H.I.s! Eckists need to look around and they will see! These are
          FACTS and more reasons why Eckankar is all a lie! Eckists just don't
          think things through - many are as brain-washed as the religious
          fundamentalists!

          Prometheus
        • Elizabeth
          ... *** A belated welcome to the group Sandy H. I can relate to your story somewhat. I was a member for 30 years but would say the last few months as a
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 6, 2006
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            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra"
            <eckscholar@...> wrote:
            >
            > I am still an Eck member, for over 17 years. Yes I do point out the
            > flaws of Eckankar. Though I now consider myself a researcher for
            > spiritual truth.
            >

            *** A belated welcome to the group Sandy H. I can relate to your
            story somewhat. I was a member for 30 years but would say the last
            few months as a member, I realized in my heart I should have left
            the path years before. I too did some research, and came to a
            similar conclusion as you.


            > My heart is still somewhat with the teachings. As I still find
            some truth hidden within the passages of Paul Twitchell's material.
            Although the more I research, the more I find, other peoples
            knowledge being called Eckankar.


            *** LOL yes isn't that a joke? Paul Twitchell did in fact lift
            passages (more than what the Eck thugs want most to believe as I am
            sure you have discovered) from numerous spiritual paths and
            teachers, calling it Eckankar. Then Harold Klemp continues the lie
            by explaining that anyone (usually a godman or religious scholar,
            guru or master) can go and read from the great book of spiritual BS,
            located at the Astral Library. Why would Paul Twitchell go to a
            lower Astral Library to gather spiritual truth?

            HK also claims that Paul was tasked with re gathering the teachings
            from all four corners of the universe, and bringing it to the
            waiting public. Claiming too that Eckankar went underground for
            years, and that it was even called something else at one time!?
            LOL They sure wouldn't want that to happen again now would they?

            >
            > I am trying to keep a rational objective thinking mind, as so many
            > here keep reminding us. Though I am sure many Eckist do not see me
            > in that way? Maybe, I will fit in just fine here at Eckankar
            > Survivors Anonymous?


            Watch how the Eckists will now call you a detractor! Sandy, I
            looked at your 360, and if I know some of these Eck Thugs correctly,
            you are now among the ranks of the Kal force, losers and weeds....

            Here are some of the comments from those highly evolved Chosen Ones:


            "Perhaps *detractors* of Eckankar are the way they (we) are because
            they are living in a spiritual desert."

            "It's not like they (detractors)have some magical power or anything.
            <grinning>"

            *** Hmmmm, wonder what that means? <VBG> Oh I bet it means we had
            all of our initiations stripped and our awareness removed (human
            intelligence kicked in) and we are now bodies walking around with
            retarded souls.... LOL we have no substance or spiritual
            enlightenment! What a cosmic joke eh?

            "And who knows what they (detractors)have experienced in past lives,
            either as Spiritual seekers or oppressors or or or ........."

            *** Or or or what captain underpants? Isn't it funny how these
            Higher Initiates think they are far more superior.... they never
            were a detractor in a past life I bet? Only spiritual beings
            advancing each life time to become enlightened, and God realized.

            "I think it is important to remember that these folks (detractors)
            are working from Human intelligence, and not from the intelligence
            of soul. When one Thinks and writes and speaks with the intelligence
            of soul, the Individual is enlightening, uplifting, engaging, and
            carries with them The rhythm or cadence of words that speak to our
            innermost being. Thus it is easy to dismiss the words of those who
            speak from what is only of the mind or from what is only found in
            the lower worlds."

            "My problem with detractors is that I pick up the
            Vibrations they put out when they were writing or
            Taping their viewpoints. I can read only a little bit
            Before my insides start churning."


            "While the ECK cannot be harmed by words, it can complicate vahana
            Efforts to have detractors bad mouthing the Mahanta and the ECK
            works. Or maybe it serves a purpose, helping to prune the tree, so
            to speak."

            *** LOL well Autumn is coming up, as well as the World Wide. Harold
            neds a little help pruning his trees and weeds...

            "The only Thing they (us detractors) "know" is 1) what David lane
            wrote about as a student over 30 years ago, and 2) all the gossip
            that has evolved over the years From disgruntled former members with
            nothing else to do with their Time! <shrug> That's why it's
            important for people to feel free to ask On groups such as this one,
            about anything that they come across that Causes them alarm!
            Personally I feel if these detractors "knew" Anything at all, they
            wouldn't be "detractors" in the first place!"


            *** OUCH! My stomach is just churning from these nasty words coming
            from the chosen ones.


            "I once asked someone who works at the ECK Spiritual
            Center what they thought of the online detractors. The reply was that
            Frankly, they are too busy working to pay much attention."


            *** Well I beg to differ! They do in fact read from each and every
            anti Eck group, including the unofficial, official Eck chat groups!
            They have someone specifically do this and other mundane minimum
            wage paying jobs.


            >
            > Please join me at my 360 Yahoo page at:
            >
            > http://360.yahoo.com/eckscholar


            Thanks for the invite Sandy, I will email an invite for you to join
            mine too!

            Keep researching, and sharing your finds.

            Liz
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