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Darwin Gross is an Eck Master?

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  • ctecvie
    Hello all, this is from a.r.e. when somebody asked: Is Darwin Gross still an Eck Master? Is there any way to tell for sure? Tianyue responded: Since Darwin
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 29, 2006
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      Hello all,

      this is from a.r.e. when somebody asked: "Is Darwin Gross still an
      Eck Master? Is there any way to tell for sure?"

      Tianyue responded:

      "Since Darwin Gross considers his treatment from his protege' Harold
      Klemp to be unfair, and since Gross was appointed to be an Eck Master
      before Klemp, and since he still consides himself to be a master, it
      seems obvious Darwin still considers himself to be an Eck Master, for
      what its worth. He doesn't use the term Eck or Eckankar because the
      Eckankar Corporation OWNS these terms, and would sue Gross for
      trademark violations if he were to violate them. You see, since
      Eckankar owns the terms, it thus owns the masters, in a sense. No one
      gets to be an Eck Master unless the eckankar corp says so, which is
      rather odd, if one thinks about it. What if a 'higher
      power'disagrees? Well, in Darwin's case, he seems to think just
      that, so he still calls himself a teacher of light and sound, but
      uses a different label.

      As to how to tell, that is a far more complex answer. The standard
      eckankar answer is if you have an inner experience with Klemp, and he
      is an eck master in your inner experience, then go with it. But they
      change their tune a bit when a person, as a card carrying eckist,
      claims to have had a positive inner experience with Darwin.

      In my local area, all hell broke loose when someone did exactly that,
      which was to say they follow Darwin 'on the inner' during a worship
      service. Many of the numerous high initiates had a fit, though it was
      mostly in private. They wondered what to do about the person who
      voiced this in a worship service. They didn't want the newbies in
      eckankar to even hear about Darwin if it were avoidable.

      Well, out of time for now. I'm out of here. (By the way, I don't
      think any of them are real masters. What kind of masters would fight
      over God?)

      Tianyue"
    • prometheus_973
      I would say that Darwin Gross is as much of an Eck Master as both Twitchell and Klemp are! Gross initiated Klemp with all of Klemp s Higher Initiatiations
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 30, 2006
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        I would say that Darwin Gross is as much of an Eck Master as both
        Twitchell and Klemp are! Gross initiated Klemp with all of
        Klemp's "Higher Initiatiations" and Twitchell made himself the
        Mahanta via his creative imagination, dishonesty, and vanity.
        Therefore, they are all vain scammers and fools! Those (Eckists) who
        follow them and these teachings are a hodge-podge of individuals who
        need something outside, higher, and better than they view their own
        unique Beingness as Master Souls. What a pity!

        Prometheus

        ctecvie wrote:

        Hello all,

        this is from a.r.e. when somebody asked: "Is Darwin Gross still an
        Eck Master? Is there any way to tell for sure?"

        Tianyue responded:

        "Since Darwin Gross considers his treatment from his protege' Harold
        Klemp to be unfair, and since Gross was appointed to be an Eck Master
        before Klemp, and since he still consides himself to be a master, it
        seems obvious Darwin still considers himself to be an Eck Master, for
        what its worth. He doesn't use the term Eck or Eckankar because the
        Eckankar Corporation OWNS these terms, and would sue Gross for
        trademark violations if he were to violate them. You see, since
        Eckankar owns the terms, it thus owns the masters, in a sense. No one
        gets to be an Eck Master unless the eckankar corp says so, which is
        rather odd, if one thinks about it. What if a 'higher power'
        disagrees? Well, in Darwin's case, he seems to think just that, so
        he still calls himself a teacher of light and sound, but
        uses a different label.

        As to how to tell, that is a far more complex answer. The standard
        eckankar answer is if you have an inner experience with Klemp, and he
        is an eck master in your inner experience, then go with it. But they
        change their tune a bit when a person, as a card carrying eckist,
        claims to have had a positive inner experience with Darwin.

        In my local area, all hell broke loose when someone did exactly that,
        which was to say they follow Darwin 'on the inner' during a worship
        service. Many of the numerous high initiates had a fit, though it was
        mostly in private. They wondered what to do about the person who
        voiced this in a worship service. They didn't want the newbies in
        eckankar to even hear about Darwin if it were avoidable.

        Well, out of time for now. I'm out of here. (By the way, I don't
        think any of them are real masters. What kind of masters would fight
        over God?)

        Tianyue"
      • mishmisha9
        Hi, All! This is indeed an interesting post about the bogus eck masters and what the eckankar org claim in their made-up religious scam. It seems they talk out
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 2 8:57 PM
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          Hi, All!

          This is indeed an interesting post about the bogus eck masters and
          what the eckankar org claim in their made-up religious scam. It
          seems they talk out of both sides of their mouth. There are
          certainly a lot of restrictions. I was looking at the list of dos
          and don'ts for posting on HuChat the other day--how in the world can
          anyone remember all of that???? So silly really to be telling adults
          how to post, what to post and what not to post--and yet these same
          eckists will claim that they are free to do pretty much what they
          want as long as it follows the guidelines. But there are so many
          guidelines! And if one of the eck leaders--H.I.s don't like
          something that is said or done, they can always dredge up some rule
          and chastise the offender, just as they were indeed bothered by the
          eckist asking about Darwin Gross--wow, how dare he dirty up an eck
          worship service by mentioning this miscreant's name and maybe have
          newbies question this bit of eck history! LOL!

          Eckists need to think for themselves here--why must Darwin Gross be
          kept a secret?? Why the cover-up? Doesn't that seem fishy?

          I certainly agree there are no eck masters--if there were, they
          certainly wouldn't stoop so low as to fight over God! Paul
          Twitchell, Darwin Gross, Harold Klemp and that short list of masters
          they claim you can conjure up, are just fakes. They steal people's
          spiritual freedom by distracting them from taking a true spiritual
          path by tying them up in dogma and bogus religious nonsense! What an
          eckist learns from all the "eck" stories and spiritual exercises is
          how to become delusional and brain-washed.

          BTW, this is exactly what a cult will do--and is a basic way of
          controlling people! They do not help individuals to find spiritual
          freedom; rather, they rob them of it instead and impede spiritual
          growth.

          For sure, eckists and Klemp in particular should be concerned about
          the karmic repercussions of such deceptions and impediments!

          Mish

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
          <ctecvie@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello all,
          >
          > this is from a.r.e. when somebody asked: "Is Darwin Gross still an
          > Eck Master? Is there any way to tell for sure?"
          >
          > Tianyue responded:
          >
          > "Since Darwin Gross considers his treatment from his protege'
          Harold
          > Klemp to be unfair, and since Gross was appointed to be an Eck
          Master
          > before Klemp, and since he still consides himself to be a master,
          it
          > seems obvious Darwin still considers himself to be an Eck Master,
          for
          > what its worth. He doesn't use the term Eck or Eckankar because the
          > Eckankar Corporation OWNS these terms, and would sue Gross for
          > trademark violations if he were to violate them. You see, since
          > Eckankar owns the terms, it thus owns the masters, in a sense. No
          one
          > gets to be an Eck Master unless the eckankar corp says so, which is
          > rather odd, if one thinks about it. What if a 'higher
          > power'disagrees? Well, in Darwin's case, he seems to think just
          > that, so he still calls himself a teacher of light and sound, but
          > uses a different label.
          >
          > As to how to tell, that is a far more complex answer. The standard
          > eckankar answer is if you have an inner experience with Klemp, and
          he
          > is an eck master in your inner experience, then go with it. But
          they
          > change their tune a bit when a person, as a card carrying eckist,
          > claims to have had a positive inner experience with Darwin.
          >
          > In my local area, all hell broke loose when someone did exactly
          that,
          > which was to say they follow Darwin 'on the inner' during a worship
          > service. Many of the numerous high initiates had a fit, though it
          was
          > mostly in private. They wondered what to do about the person who
          > voiced this in a worship service. They didn't want the newbies in
          > eckankar to even hear about Darwin if it were avoidable.
          >
          > Well, out of time for now. I'm out of here. (By the way, I don't
          > think any of them are real masters. What kind of masters would
          fight
          > over God?)
          >
          > Tianyue"
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hi There! It is interesting to read the Eckie blogs or the member sites and see how they hide from the truth in their narrow and fearful little minds. Yes, it
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 2 11:55 PM
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            Hi There!
            It is interesting to read the Eckie blogs or the member sites and
            see how they hide from the truth in their narrow and fearful little
            minds. Yes, it is Not permitted to speak of Darwin or what happened
            in the 10 lost years of Eckankar from 1971-81. Klemp will only
            speake of the end of Darwin's membership and mastership (the two go
            hand-in-hand).

            Is Eckankar a cult/scam? Sure, just read some of the LINKS. The very
            first one has a lot of info and there are other links too! Check out
            the SHARIYAT/Path of the Masters link.

            Does the SHARIYAT threaten Eckists to ASTRAL HELLS if they want to
            leave? Well, yes! Now does that sound like something a cult would
            do? Well, yes again!

            Did Twitchell make it all up including Rebazar? Yes again! Klemp
            mentions that Twitchell often "twisted facts." And Twit lied about
            meeting Sudar in India in 1935 at the age of 27 when he was lying
            about everything to get into Kentucky's Who's Who. Klemp points this
            out in the P.T. info on Eckankar.org.

            Is Klemp perfect and was Twitchell or Gross perfect? Well, is the
            Mahanta perfect? They claim(ed) to be the Mahanta who (Twit said)
            was the incarnation of the SUGMAD. Even a 5th Initiate is higher
            than "God" and therefore (in their minds as well) more perfect than
            the lowly uninitiated masses.

            Is Doug Marman an expert and an authority on everything including
            Eckankar? Doug has a lot of opinions and likes to claim Klemp as a
            friend, but he has stated that he thought Rebazar was a myth. In
            other words he thinks Twitchell made it all up!

            Basically, Eckists just accept anything and everything that Klemp
            tells them to believe in. They need to believe in something so why
            not in Klemp or Eckankar? However, they really really need to keep
            paying that yearly membership donation fee because Eckists are
            always hoping they get that next initiation or position and they
            have to be current with that money. BUT even at that, 99.99% of the
            7ths are just out of luck on ever getting an 8th Initiation (on the
            outer- LOL! -in this lifetime).

            So, why remain in Eckankar? Well, it beats nothing! People have to
            follow someone or something don't they? Besides, there's the
            social/relationship aspect too right? What would happen to their Eck
            friends or family members if they left? What would Eckists do with
            their free time if they were no longer in Eckankar and servants of
            their Mahanta?

            Hmmmmmm. Maybe Eckists would be free to be their own Master.
            Afterall, how long do they need to be followers? Aren't they
            learning anything about Self-Mastery or Spiritual Freedom? One
            doesn't need to join the H.I. club like everyone else do they?
            Aren't there people who are already of a higher consciousness
            without the "Eck" initiations? Sure, there are plenty of people that
            are more enlightened that the average H.I. or even the "true" blue
            H.I.s! See! This is one more reason why it's all a lie!

            Prometheus




            IS DARWIN GROSS AN ECK MASTER?

            mishmisha wrote:

            Hi, All!

            This is indeed an interesting post about the bogus eck masters and
            what the eckankar org claim in their made-up religious scam. It
            seems they talk out of both sides of their mouth. There are
            certainly a lot of restrictions. I was looking at the list of dos
            and don'ts for posting on HuChat the other day--how in the world can
            anyone remember all of that???? So silly really to be telling adults
            how to post, what to post and what not to post--and yet these same
            eckists will claim that they are free to do pretty much what they
            want as long as it follows the guidelines. But there are so many
            guidelines! And if one of the eck leaders--H.I.s don't like
            something that is said or done, they can always dredge up some rule
            and chastise the offender, just as they were indeed bothered by the
            eckist asking about Darwin Gross--wow, how dare he dirty up an eck
            worship service by mentioning this miscreant's name and maybe have
            newbies question this bit of eck history! LOL!

            Eckists need to think for themselves here--why must Darwin Gross be
            kept a secret?? Why the cover-up? Doesn't that seem fishy?

            I certainly agree there are no eck masters--if there were, they
            certainly wouldn't stoop so low as to fight over God! Paul
            Twitchell, Darwin Gross, Harold Klemp and that short list of masters
            they claim you can conjure up, are just fakes. They steal people's
            spiritual freedom by distracting them from taking a true spiritual
            path by tying them up in dogma and bogus religious nonsense! What an
            eckist learns from all the "eck" stories and spiritual exercises is
            how to become delusional and brain-washed.

            BTW, this is exactly what a cult will do--and is a basic way of
            controlling people! They do not help individuals to find spiritual
            freedom; rather, they rob them of it instead and impede spiritual
            growth.

            For sure, eckists and Klemp in particular should be concerned about
            the karmic repercussions of such deceptions and impediments!

            Mish
          • Sandra
            Good Morning everyone, First I would like to say that I have been lurking and reading from this group for several months. I need to apologize to the group
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 3 7:29 AM
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              Good Morning everyone,

              First I would like to say that I have been lurking and reading from
              this group for several months. I need to apologize to the group
              owner for being guilty of cross posting some of the excellent
              messages from this group, to another Yahoo group I belong to.

              I never joined Eckankar Survivors Anonymous because I just didn't
              really have anything to say. Yet, the title of this post, and it's
              message compelled me to officially join.

              There is an amazing amount of information on the internet concerning
              Eckankar. And I recently was introduced to the 360 yahoo blogs by an
              Eckist named TomG. So, I have to agree that these blogs, and member
              sites are all very worthy of a look.

              I am still an Eck member, for over 17 years. Yes I do point out the
              flaws of Eckankar. Though I now consider myself a researcher for
              spiritual truth.

              My heart is still somewhat with the teachings. As I still find some
              truth hidden within the passages of Paul Twitchell's material.
              Although the more I research, the more I find, other peoples
              knowledge being called Eckankar.

              I am trying to keep a rational objective thinking mind, as so many
              here keep reminding us. Though I am sure many Eckist do not see me
              in that way? Maybe, I will fit in just fine here at Eckankar
              Survivors Anonymous?

              Please join me at my 360 Yahoo page at:

              http://360.yahoo.com/eckscholar

              I have met a couple Eckist friends there from a very long time ago.
              Maybe more of us can hook up?

              Sandy H


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi There!
              > It is interesting to read the Eckie blogs or the member sites and
              > see how they hide from the truth in their narrow and fearful
              little
              > minds. Yes, it is Not permitted to speak of Darwin or what
              happened
              > in the 10 lost years of Eckankar from 1971-81. Klemp will only
              > speake of the end of Darwin's membership and mastership (the two
              go
              > hand-in-hand).
              >
              > Is Eckankar a cult/scam? Sure, just read some of the LINKS. The
              very
              > first one has a lot of info and there are other links too! Check
              out
              > the SHARIYAT/Path of the Masters link.
              >
              > Does the SHARIYAT threaten Eckists to ASTRAL HELLS if they want to
              > leave? Well, yes! Now does that sound like something a cult would
              > do? Well, yes again!
              >
              > Did Twitchell make it all up including Rebazar? Yes again! Klemp
              > mentions that Twitchell often "twisted facts." And Twit lied about
              > meeting Sudar in India in 1935 at the age of 27 when he was lying
              > about everything to get into Kentucky's Who's Who. Klemp points
              this
              > out in the P.T. info on Eckankar.org.
              >
              > Is Klemp perfect and was Twitchell or Gross perfect? Well, is the
              > Mahanta perfect? They claim(ed) to be the Mahanta who (Twit said)
              > was the incarnation of the SUGMAD. Even a 5th Initiate is higher
              > than "God" and therefore (in their minds as well) more perfect
              than
              > the lowly uninitiated masses.
              >
              > Is Doug Marman an expert and an authority on everything including
              > Eckankar? Doug has a lot of opinions and likes to claim Klemp as a
              > friend, but he has stated that he thought Rebazar was a myth. In
              > other words he thinks Twitchell made it all up!
              >
              > Basically, Eckists just accept anything and everything that Klemp
              > tells them to believe in. They need to believe in something so why
              > not in Klemp or Eckankar? However, they really really need to keep
              > paying that yearly membership donation fee because Eckists are
              > always hoping they get that next initiation or position and they
              > have to be current with that money. BUT even at that, 99.99% of
              the
              > 7ths are just out of luck on ever getting an 8th Initiation (on
              the
              > outer- LOL! -in this lifetime).
              >
              > So, why remain in Eckankar? Well, it beats nothing! People have to
              > follow someone or something don't they? Besides, there's the
              > social/relationship aspect too right? What would happen to their
              Eck
              > friends or family members if they left? What would Eckists do with
              > their free time if they were no longer in Eckankar and servants of
              > their Mahanta?
              >
              > Hmmmmmm. Maybe Eckists would be free to be their own Master.
              > Afterall, how long do they need to be followers? Aren't they
              > learning anything about Self-Mastery or Spiritual Freedom? One
              > doesn't need to join the H.I. club like everyone else do they?
              > Aren't there people who are already of a higher consciousness
              > without the "Eck" initiations? Sure, there are plenty of people
              that
              > are more enlightened that the average H.I. or even the "true" blue
              > H.I.s! See! This is one more reason why it's all a lie!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hi Sandra, Welcome to the site and thanks for the nice compliments to the posters here. I ll comment on what you have posted. Sandra wrote: Good Morning
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 3 11:12 AM
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                Hi Sandra,
                Welcome to the site and thanks for the nice compliments to the
                posters here. I'll comment on what you have posted.

                Sandra wrote:

                Good Morning everyone,

                First I would like to say that I have been lurking and reading from
                this group for several months. I need to apologize to the group
                owner for being guilty of cross posting some of the excellent
                messages from this group, to another Yahoo group I belong to.

                Me: No need to apologize for cross-posting. This is the Internet and
                if someone wants to cross-post for whatever reason then that's just
                the way it is. I'm always amused at people who think that someone
                needs permission to share what they have already sent into the
                ethers.

                I never joined Eckankar Survivors Anonymous because I just didn't
                really have anything to say. Yet, the title of this post, and it's
                message compelled me to officially join.

                Me: It's okay to just read. There are other sites that I don't
                participate on. When I was an Eckist I used to share some Vahana
                ideas and some thoughts about things on the official/unofficial Eck
                sites and stopped because the Eckists there were disrespectful and
                mean spirited. Actually, it helped to confirm what I already knew
                (deep down inside). How could these people truly be of the same or
                higher circle of initiation than me? This ongoing observation made
                me question the validity of the Eck initiations even more so!

                There is an amazing amount of information on the internet concerning
                Eckankar. And I recently was introduced to the 360 yahoo blogs by an
                Eckist named TomG. So, I have to agree that these blogs, and member
                sites are all very worthy of a look.

                Me: Yes, these blogs are interesting. I wonder how involved that
                Steve R. is with them? This TomG sounds familiar. I might have met
                him at a regional in Richmond, VA.

                I am still an Eck member, for over 17 years. Yes I do point out the
                flaws of Eckankar. Though I now consider myself a researcher for
                spiritual truth.

                Me: Good for you! I'm in touch with several Eckists and some are
                heretics of sorts on the outer because they see the "Mahanta" as
                something beyond Klemp and his authority. One H.I. even sends me
                copies of her Eck pubs. She reads this site and sends me private
                emails but will not post. That's okay too. It's funny that she puts
                up with all that I have to say, but she thinks that the balance is
                needed and doesn't like all of the secrecy (absence of discussion),
                the RESA intimidation, the military structure (hierarchy) and the
                fear factor of being Black Listed or the forcing of guideline upon
                guideline on individuals and upon the local Eck Centers, along with
                other spoken and unspoken rules, etc. Afterall, Eckankar started for
                many as a Spiritual Path versus a Religion. Now Eckankar resembles
                Christianity - which many of us rejected long ago! I hope I summed
                that up well enough? : )

                My heart is still somewhat with the teachings. As I still find some
                truth hidden within the passages of Paul Twitchell's material.
                Although the more I research, the more I find, other peoples
                knowledge being called Eckankar.

                Me: This is true with seeking Truth. Twitchell took from Radhasoami
                and other religions and Westernized (altered it). There are some
                good points and ideas out there to get us to reflect and to exert
                some discipline and change. This is what a social setting with
                feedback and an organized structure does. However, there is also a
                lot of crap in this environment and people who are not as advanced
                or focused upon the Spiritual. They seek to be stars or to be
                noticed by others. They have not come close to controlling the ego
                and yet they are H.I.s! This is why the true seeker much discover
                their own Mastership and walk with SPIRIT and SOUL - and not depend
                on someone else out of fear and Self doubt.

                I am trying to keep a rational objective thinking mind, as so many
                here keep reminding us. Though I am sure many Eckist do not see me
                in that way? Maybe, I will fit in just fine here at Eckankar
                Survivors Anonymous?

                Me: It sounds like you will fit-in. However, one must find what
                works for them and at the same time continue to explore with an open
                mind that questions authority. We should become our own Authority!

                Please join me at my 360 Yahoo page at:

                http://360.yahoo.com/eckscholar

                Me: Okay, I will!

                I have met a couple Eckist friends there from a very long time ago.
                Maybe more of us can hook up?

                Me: Well, that sounds okay, however, I'm still in the "anonymous"
                mode and don't want to reveal too much about me or my Eck friends.

                Prometheus

                Prometheus wrote:

                Hi There!
                It is interesting to read the Eckie blogs or the member sites and
                see how they hide from the truth in their narrow and fearful little
                minds. Yes, it is Not permitted to speak of Darwin or what happened
                in the 10 lost years of Eckankar from 1971-81. Klemp will only
                speake of the end of Darwin's membership and mastership (the two go
                hand-in-hand).

                Is Eckankar a cult/scam? Sure, just read some of the LINKS. The very
                first one has a lot of info and there are other links too! Check out
                the SHARIYAT/Path of the Masters link.

                Does the SHARIYAT threaten Eckists to ASTRAL HELLS if they want to
                leave? Well, yes! Now does that sound like something a cult would
                do? Well, yes again!

                Did Twitchell make it all up including Rebazar? Yes again! Klemp
                mentions that Twitchell often "twisted facts." And Twit lied about
                meeting Sudar in India in 1935 at the age of 27 when he was lying
                about everything to get into Kentucky's Who's Who. Klemp points
                this out in the P.T. info on Eckankar.org.

                Is Klemp perfect and was Twitchell or Gross perfect? Well, is the
                Mahanta perfect? They claim(ed) to be the Mahanta who (Twit said)
                was the incarnation of the SUGMAD. Even a 5th Initiate is higher
                than "God" and therefore (in their minds as well) more perfect than
                the lowly uninitiated masses.

                Is Doug Marman an expert and an authority on everything including
                Eckankar? Doug has a lot of opinions and likes to claim Klemp as a
                friend, but he has stated that he thought Rebazar was a myth. In
                other words he thinks Twitchell made it all up!

                Basically, Eckists just accept anything and everything that Klemp
                tells them to believe in. They need to believe in something so why
                not in Klemp or Eckankar? However, they really really need to keep
                paying that yearly membership donation fee because Eckists are
                always hoping they get that next initiation or position and they
                have to be current with that money. BUT even at that, 99.99% of
                the 7ths are just out of luck on ever getting an 8th Initiation (on
                the outer- LOL! -in this lifetime).

                So, why remain in Eckankar? Well, it beats nothing! People have to
                follow someone or something don't they? Besides, there's the
                social/relationship aspect too right? What would happen to their Eck
                friends or family members if they left? What would Eckists do with
                their free time if they were no longer in Eckankar and servants of
                their Mahanta?

                (revised)
                Hmmmmmm. Maybe Eckists need to be free to be their own Masters.
                Afterall, how long do they need to be followers? Aren't they
                learning anything about Self-Mastery or Spiritual Freedom? One
                doesn't need to join the H.I. club (RESA hierarchy) like everyone
                else do they? AND, aren't there other people in the world who are
                already of a Higher Consciousness (God-Realized) without the "Eck"
                initiations? Sure, there are plenty of people that are much more
                enlightened that Klemp or the average H.I. or even the "true" blue
                H.I.s! Eckists need to look around and they will see! These are
                FACTS and more reasons why Eckankar is all a lie! Eckists just don't
                think things through - many are as brain-washed as the religious
                fundamentalists!

                Prometheus
              • Elizabeth
                ... *** A belated welcome to the group Sandy H. I can relate to your story somewhat. I was a member for 30 years but would say the last few months as a
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 6 1:23 PM
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                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra"
                  <eckscholar@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I am still an Eck member, for over 17 years. Yes I do point out the
                  > flaws of Eckankar. Though I now consider myself a researcher for
                  > spiritual truth.
                  >

                  *** A belated welcome to the group Sandy H. I can relate to your
                  story somewhat. I was a member for 30 years but would say the last
                  few months as a member, I realized in my heart I should have left
                  the path years before. I too did some research, and came to a
                  similar conclusion as you.


                  > My heart is still somewhat with the teachings. As I still find
                  some truth hidden within the passages of Paul Twitchell's material.
                  Although the more I research, the more I find, other peoples
                  knowledge being called Eckankar.


                  *** LOL yes isn't that a joke? Paul Twitchell did in fact lift
                  passages (more than what the Eck thugs want most to believe as I am
                  sure you have discovered) from numerous spiritual paths and
                  teachers, calling it Eckankar. Then Harold Klemp continues the lie
                  by explaining that anyone (usually a godman or religious scholar,
                  guru or master) can go and read from the great book of spiritual BS,
                  located at the Astral Library. Why would Paul Twitchell go to a
                  lower Astral Library to gather spiritual truth?

                  HK also claims that Paul was tasked with re gathering the teachings
                  from all four corners of the universe, and bringing it to the
                  waiting public. Claiming too that Eckankar went underground for
                  years, and that it was even called something else at one time!?
                  LOL They sure wouldn't want that to happen again now would they?

                  >
                  > I am trying to keep a rational objective thinking mind, as so many
                  > here keep reminding us. Though I am sure many Eckist do not see me
                  > in that way? Maybe, I will fit in just fine here at Eckankar
                  > Survivors Anonymous?


                  Watch how the Eckists will now call you a detractor! Sandy, I
                  looked at your 360, and if I know some of these Eck Thugs correctly,
                  you are now among the ranks of the Kal force, losers and weeds....

                  Here are some of the comments from those highly evolved Chosen Ones:


                  "Perhaps *detractors* of Eckankar are the way they (we) are because
                  they are living in a spiritual desert."

                  "It's not like they (detractors)have some magical power or anything.
                  <grinning>"

                  *** Hmmmm, wonder what that means? <VBG> Oh I bet it means we had
                  all of our initiations stripped and our awareness removed (human
                  intelligence kicked in) and we are now bodies walking around with
                  retarded souls.... LOL we have no substance or spiritual
                  enlightenment! What a cosmic joke eh?

                  "And who knows what they (detractors)have experienced in past lives,
                  either as Spiritual seekers or oppressors or or or ........."

                  *** Or or or what captain underpants? Isn't it funny how these
                  Higher Initiates think they are far more superior.... they never
                  were a detractor in a past life I bet? Only spiritual beings
                  advancing each life time to become enlightened, and God realized.

                  "I think it is important to remember that these folks (detractors)
                  are working from Human intelligence, and not from the intelligence
                  of soul. When one Thinks and writes and speaks with the intelligence
                  of soul, the Individual is enlightening, uplifting, engaging, and
                  carries with them The rhythm or cadence of words that speak to our
                  innermost being. Thus it is easy to dismiss the words of those who
                  speak from what is only of the mind or from what is only found in
                  the lower worlds."

                  "My problem with detractors is that I pick up the
                  Vibrations they put out when they were writing or
                  Taping their viewpoints. I can read only a little bit
                  Before my insides start churning."


                  "While the ECK cannot be harmed by words, it can complicate vahana
                  Efforts to have detractors bad mouthing the Mahanta and the ECK
                  works. Or maybe it serves a purpose, helping to prune the tree, so
                  to speak."

                  *** LOL well Autumn is coming up, as well as the World Wide. Harold
                  neds a little help pruning his trees and weeds...

                  "The only Thing they (us detractors) "know" is 1) what David lane
                  wrote about as a student over 30 years ago, and 2) all the gossip
                  that has evolved over the years From disgruntled former members with
                  nothing else to do with their Time! <shrug> That's why it's
                  important for people to feel free to ask On groups such as this one,
                  about anything that they come across that Causes them alarm!
                  Personally I feel if these detractors "knew" Anything at all, they
                  wouldn't be "detractors" in the first place!"


                  *** OUCH! My stomach is just churning from these nasty words coming
                  from the chosen ones.


                  "I once asked someone who works at the ECK Spiritual
                  Center what they thought of the online detractors. The reply was that
                  Frankly, they are too busy working to pay much attention."


                  *** Well I beg to differ! They do in fact read from each and every
                  anti Eck group, including the unofficial, official Eck chat groups!
                  They have someone specifically do this and other mundane minimum
                  wage paying jobs.


                  >
                  > Please join me at my 360 Yahoo page at:
                  >
                  > http://360.yahoo.com/eckscholar


                  Thanks for the invite Sandy, I will email an invite for you to join
                  mine too!

                  Keep researching, and sharing your finds.

                  Liz
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