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Re: Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist? : )

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  • prometheus_973
    Well, here s another post that I wanted to bring back to the front page. BTW - all new members or first time visitors to this site really need to read the
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 19, 2006
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      Well, here's another post that I wanted to bring back to the front
      page. BTW - all new members or first time visitors to this site
      really need to read the archives and take a look at the LINKS.

      I noticed that in a recent post on HU-Chat that Peter was talking
      about that former Eck Master... number 972... you know who... the
      one that was betrayed or was booted by number 973 or was HK just
      the third liar and deceiver! LOL!

      Isn't it funny that Eckists are Not supposed to mention Darwin by
      name! Is it bad luck or what? Actually, it is bad luck because if
      one's RESA hears about any Eckist talking about Darwin Gross
      there'll be Hell to pay! Don't count on getting that next pink slip
      if it's your time - you'll be put on hold for about three more
      years. Yea, I know, it's Eck History and all that, but it's just Not
      permitted!

      However, and as I've said before, where did most of those "Eck"
      Initiations come from for all of those 35 year plus H.I.s?! By who's
      authority? Most came from the authority of the 972nd LEM/Mahanta
      and "Black Magician" Darwin Gross (or his secretary BB when DG was
      too busy or out of town) that's where!



      Hi All,
      Yes, it seems that Klemp is at least a Kal terrorist as he spreads
      lies and untruths. One has to wonder why many Eckists discount the
      Golden-Tongued Wisdom and Waking Dreams that point to Klemp's
      deceptions. Why not look at everything that comes one's way? If
      Darwin Gross (972nd LEM/Mahanta) could fall from Grace then why
      couldn't Klemp? And, since Klemp did fall from Grace then what good
      are those Eck Initiations given under his authority! What good were
      those given under Gross's authority! They weren't/aren't worth what
      it cost to print up the pink slips! The Initiations were a scam
      anyway and certainly those coming from agents of the Kal aren't of a
      Positive spiritual value! It's all part of the scam of delusion and
      just one more test for Soul. No religion is of value to the
      independent and free master Soul. To follow another, regardless of
      promises or imagined results, is to lose sight of the true goal for
      this lifetime. Those who can (and are ready) will see and hear and
      understand this.

      Prometheus


      Freefrom eckchains wrote:

      Good point! Not only are there those who seem to want the prison of
      AUTHORITY, there are also enough who get a rush out of being a BOGUS
      AUTHORITY. (for example, klemp) Such is the life of DELUSION. ; )

      Freefrom

      pretujari wrote:

      Hi Mish and All,
      This is how Eckists can stretch the imagination and clutch at straws
      to make their beloved mahanta appear more than he really is. A
      classic example of the pathetic extent to which some will go to have
      themselves an authority spiritual figure.

      mishmisha wrote:
      Hi, All!

      I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
      is) on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome
      realization."


      ***[BTW-The Eckist making the 9/11 correlations is Rev. Peter Anton
      and the Eck site is HU-Chat]

      ####################################################################
      Here's his post:

      "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
      the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
      local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
      end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
      might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
      again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
      September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
      would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
      years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
      the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
      and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
      later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
      second at 10:28 am. (Source:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

      Exactly twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with
      his shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier
      and the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.

      I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
      interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
      interfere with the significance that any of you might see."

      ####################################################################

      ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
      Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
      a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
      earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
      label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
      thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
      Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
      Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
      with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
      there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
      with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
      become co-L.E.M. : )

      Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
      through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
      by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
      people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
      their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
      shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
      delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

      Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
      guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
      powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
      understand it that well, myself. . . . "

      ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
      ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
      worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
      Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
      mahanta! LOL!

      Mish
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, All! I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating attacks on the
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 10, 2006
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        Hi, All!
        I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we
        are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating
        attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001.
        As a further note, I have read some discussions by eckists who
        believe that no eckists perished in these attacks, as they were
        delayed or had changes of plans that kept them away from their jobs
        in the WTC and the Pentagon that day--they believe this is because
        eckists were protected by the mahanta. However, how do eckists
        account for the stories of other non-eckists who also did not go to
        work that day or were late, etc. and they too were spared the
        horrors of the day?? I have friends whose son and daughter-in-law
        would have been in the area, if not in the WTC that fateful day, but
        they had car trouble and were at a dealership looking to buy a new
        car. These are Christians who know nothing about eckankar or the
        mahanta. If no eckists were at all at the WTC or the Pentagon that
        day, I rather think it would be more because no eckists worked at
        those places in 2001! After all, eckists are quite a minority,
        religiously speaking--quite the minority in more ways than one! Just
        a small school of small fish in a very large pond!: )

        Below is the repost in which another eckist saw a connection between
        Harold Klemp (a twelve year cycle) and the terrorist attacks, which
        then asks the question, "Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist?" LOL!

        Hi, All!

        I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
        is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
        Here's his post:

        "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
        the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
        local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
        end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
        might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
        again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
        September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
        would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
        years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
        the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
        and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
        later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
        second at 10:28 am. (Source:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)Exactly
        twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with his
        shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier and
        the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.

        I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
        interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
        interfere with the significance that any of you might see."

        ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
        Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
        a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
        earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
        label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
        thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
        Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
        Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
        with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
        there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
        with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
        become co-L.E.M. : )

        Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
        through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
        by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
        people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
        their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
        shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
        delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

        Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
        guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
        powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
        understand it that well, myself. . . . "

        ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
        ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
        worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
        Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
        mahanta! LOL!

        Mish
        >
      • prometheus_973
        It seems that Klemp s Connection (as Peter points out) to the Negative Events of 9/11/2001 do connect HK to the Kal! However, while ECKists are supposed to pay
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 10, 2006
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          It seems that Klemp's Connection (as Peter points out) to the
          Negative Events of 9/11/2001 do connect HK to the Kal! However,
          while ECKists are supposed to pay attention to details they are Not
          to see Negative connections to their Mahanta. This is the Catch-22
          rule that Klemp lives by. Of course, the Catch-22 rule was created
          by the Kal. Klemp, Gross, and Twitchell's Eckankar can't stand up to
          the Truth. Those Eckists who continue to believe these distortions
          and close their eyes and minds to Truth are swimming with a small
          school of small fish in a very large pond.

          Prometheus

          mishmisha wrote:

          Hi, All!
          I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we
          are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating
          attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001.
          As a further note, I have read some discussions by eckists who
          believe that no eckists perished in these attacks, as they were
          delayed or had changes of plans that kept them away from their jobs
          in the WTC and the Pentagon that day--they believe this is because
          eckists were protected by the mahanta. However, how do eckists
          account for the stories of other non-eckists who also did not go to
          work that day or were late, etc. and they too were spared the
          horrors of the day?? I have friends whose son and daughter-in-law
          would have been in the area, if not in the WTC that fateful day, but
          they had car trouble and were at a dealership looking to buy a new
          car. These are Christians who know nothing about eckankar or the
          mahanta. If no eckists were at all at the WTC or the Pentagon that
          day, I rather think it would be more because no eckists worked at
          those places in 2001! After all, eckists are quite a minority,
          religiously speaking--quite the minority in more ways than one! Just
          a small school of small fish in a very large pond!: )

          Below is the repost in which another eckist saw a connection between
          Harold Klemp (a twelve year cycle) and the terrorist attacks, which
          then asks the question, "Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist?" LOL!

          Hi, All!
          I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
          is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
          Here's his post:

          ********************************************************************
          [Rev. Peter Anton, Eck Chela]
          "I just came to an Awesome Realization this morning. I was watching
          the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
          local Eck Center during a Satsang Class I'm attending. Toward the
          end of the tape Something Caught My Eye that I Almost Missed and
          Might Have Regarded Only Casually, BUT I Reversed The Tape to see it
          again. It was the Date that Sri Harold Broke Ground for the Temple--
          SEPTEMBER 11, 1989. The narrator stated the Time as 10:30 am (which
          would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).

          This is Exactly 12 Years Before the Events Surrounding the Attack on
          the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center Took Place. The First
          Plane Hit at 8:46 am and the Second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time
          (which is 1 hour later than Central Time). The First Tower Fell at
          10:05 am and the Second at 10:28 am. (Source:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

          Exactly Twelve Years After Sri Harold Klemp Pierced the Earth with
          his Shovel, the Second Plane Had Hit its Tower 28 Minutes Earlier
          and the First Tower was to Fall 28 minutes Later.

          I'm Just Reporting the Facts. I can't help but entertain various
          interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
          interfere with the significance that any of you might see." [My caps]
          *********************************************************************

          ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
          Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
          a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
          earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
          label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
          thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
          Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
          Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
          with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
          there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
          with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
          become co-L.E.M. : )

          Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
          through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
          by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
          people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
          their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
          shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
          delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

          *********************************************************************
          Another eckist responded to this [Peter's] post:

          "Most of the Temple tour guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12
          are apparently very powerful. Can't say much more than that because
          I don't really understand it that well, myself. . . . "
          *********************************************************************

          ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
          ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
          worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
          Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
          mahanta! LOL!

          Mish
        • mishmisha9
          Hi, All! Today is a day of remembrance of the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon 5 years ago. A lot of people, including eckists, are still trying to make
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 11, 2006
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            Hi, All!

            Today is a day of remembrance of the attacks on the WTC and the
            Pentagon 5 years ago. A lot of people, including eckists, are still
            trying to make sense out of this tragic event. The connection that
            one eckist on HuChat was attempting was to tie the 9/11/01 to Klemp
            plunging his shovel in the ground on 9/11/89 in Chanhassen, to begin
            construction of the eck temple. This eckist intricately drew
            parallels to the two events, linking them up as an important 12 Year
            Cycle in eckankar--giving it eck significance, and in doing so, he
            connected the mahanta to the actions of the terrorists who attacked
            the WTC and the Pentagon. As Prometheus points out eckists are not
            to see the negative connections to the mahanta, so I guess this
            eckist is sorely lacking in eck education/etiquette! : ) But maybe
            he is not alone in this thinking? Attached below are my original
            post and Prometheus' reply.

            On an added note, I was reading TIME magazine, the Sept, 11, 2006
            edition, "What We Lost." Inside, there is an article on the
            conspiracy myths of 9/11 which might help explain our need to look
            for links tying in conspiracies to major tragic events--including
            suggesting that the mahanta might have been part of the terrorist
            activities. The article by Lev Grossman begins with this
            header: "Why the 9/11 Conspiracies Won't Go Away . . . Turns out, we
            need grand theories to make sense of grand events, or the world just
            seems too random."

            The article goes on to explain: "There are psychological
            explanations for why conspiracy theories are so seductive. Academics
            who study them argue that they meet a basic human need: to have the
            magnitude of any given effect be balanced by the magnitude of the
            cause behind it. A world in which tiny causes can have huge
            consequences feels scary and unreliable. Therefore a grand disaster
            like Sept. 11 needs a grand conspiracy behind it. 'We tend to
            associate major events--a President or princess dying--with major
            causes,' says Patrick Leman, a lecturer in psychology at Royal
            Holloway University of London, who has conducted studies on
            conspiracy belief.'If we think big events like a President being
            assassinated can happen at the hands of a minor individual, that
            points to the the unpredictability and randomness of life and
            unsettles us.' In that sense, the idea that there is a malevolent
            controlling force orchestrating global events is, in a perverse way,
            comforting."

            My hunch is that the eckist who was weaving in a 12 Year Cycle in
            eck to the events of 9/11/01 was simply trying to comfort himself by
            attempting to validate his belief in the power of his beloved
            mahanta, but in so doing, he actually turned his mahanta into an
            agent for the kal. Of course, those of us who view Klemp and his org
            as a cult, see this as the bigger picture; but of course, we know
            Klemp has no powers to control others or to orchestrate such worldly
            events! However, scamming people into believing in a bogus religion
            is definitely a conspiracy and as such has long range negative
            effects on those who fall for the scam until they, like us (former
            eckists) eventually come to recognize their own gulliability in
            being duped by the eck lies and deceptions. The realization of our
            gulliability is an awareness that will lead people, including some
            eckists eventually, to higher consciousness. The ties that
            unbind and liberate us back to being free thinkers and masters of
            our fate!

            Bringing our experiences and what we have gleaned from our "eck"
            experiences in posts to this site serve the purpose of helping
            others confused and questioning the eck leadership and org to come
            to this greater awareness. For me, a strong sense of duty to share
            my perspectives and experiences guides me to participate on this
            site. Looking back, it is really funny to see how I fell for the eck
            scam. I find it amusing as well as enlightening that it could happen
            to me! : )

            BTW, welcome Makizor and Victorious Traveler for joining our group!

            I've attached the earlier posts so one can easily access what was
            posted previously!

            Mish

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

            It seems that Klemp's Connection (as Peter points out) to the
            Negative Events of 9/11/2001 do connect HK to the Kal! However,
            while ECKists are supposed to pay attention to details they are Not
            to see Negative connections to their Mahanta. This is the Catch-22
            rule that Klemp lives by. Of course, the Catch-22 rule was created
            by the Kal. Klemp, Gross, and Twitchell's Eckankar can't stand up to
            the Truth. Those Eckists who continue to believe these distortions
            and close their eyes and minds to Truth are swimming with a small
            school of small fish in a very large pond.

            Prometheus

            mishmisha wrote:

            Hi, All!
            I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we
            are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating
            attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001.
            As a further note, I have read some discussions by eckists who
            believe that no eckists perished in these attacks, as they were
            delayed or had changes of plans that kept them away from their jobs
            in the WTC and the Pentagon that day--they believe this is because
            eckists were protected by the mahanta. However, how do eckists
            account for the stories of other non-eckists who also did not go to
            work that day or were late, etc. and they too were spared the
            horrors of the day?? I have friends whose son and daughter-in-law
            would have been in the area, if not in the WTC that fateful day, but
            they had car trouble and were at a dealership looking to buy a new
            car. These are Christians who know nothing about eckankar or the
            mahanta. If no eckists were at all at the WTC or the Pentagon that
            day, I rather think it would be more because no eckists worked at
            those places in 2001! After all, eckists are quite a minority,
            religiously speaking--quite the minority in more ways than one! Just
            a small school of small fish in a very large pond!: )

            Below is the repost in which another eckist saw a connection between
            Harold Klemp (a twelve year cycle) and the terrorist attacks, which
            then asks the question, "Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist?" LOL!

            Hi, All!
            I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
            is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
            Here's his post:

            ********************************************************************

            "I just came to an Awesome Realization this morning. I was watching
            the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
            local Eck Center during a Satsang Class I'm attending. Toward the
            end of the tape Something Caught My Eye that I Almost Missed and
            Might Have Regarded Only Casually, BUT I Reversed The Tape to see it
            again. It was the Date that Sri Harold Broke Ground for the Temple--
            SEPTEMBER 11, 1989. The narrator stated the Time as 10:30 am (which
            would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).

            This is Exactly 12 Years Before the Events Surrounding the Attack on
            the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center Took Place. The First
            Plane Hit at 8:46 am and the Second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time
            (which is 1 hour later than Central Time). The First Tower Fell at
            10:05 am and the Second at 10:28 am. (Source:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

            Exactly Twelve Years After Sri Harold Klemp Pierced the Earth with
            his Shovel, the Second Plane Had Hit its Tower 28 Minutes Earlier
            and the First Tower was to Fall 28 minutes Later.

            I'm Just Reporting the Facts. I can't help but entertain various
            interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
            interfere with the significance that any of you might see." [My caps]

            *********************************************************************

            ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
            Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
            a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
            earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
            label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
            thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
            Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
            Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
            with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
            there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
            with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
            become co-L.E.M. : )

            Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
            through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
            by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
            people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
            their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
            shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
            delusion building on delusion IMO! : )


            *********************************************************************
            Another eckist responded to this post:

            "Most of the Temple tour guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12
            are apparently very powerful. Can't say much more than that because
            I don't really understand it that well, myself. . . . "

            *********************************************************************

            ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
            ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
            worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
            Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
            mahanta! LOL!

            Mish
            >
          • prometheus_973
            What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn t he give his protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through Metal Detectors and have
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 14, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
              protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through
              Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World Wide
              Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
              This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
              Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!

              mishmisha wrote:
              Hi, All!

              Today is a day of remembrance of the attacks on the WTC and the
              Pentagon 5 years ago. A lot of people, including eckists, are still
              trying to make sense out of this tragic event. The connection that
              one eckist on HuChat was attempting was to tie the 9/11/01 to Klemp
              plunging his shovel in the ground on 9/11/89 in Chanhassen, to begin
              construction of the eck temple. This eckist intricately drew
              parallels to the two events, linking them up as an important 12 Year
              Cycle in eckankar--giving it eck significance, and in doing so, he
              connected the mahanta to the actions of the terrorists who attacked
              the WTC and the Pentagon. As Prometheus points out eckists are not
              to see the negative connections to the mahanta, so I guess this
              eckist is sorely lacking in eck education/etiquette! : ) But maybe
              he is not alone in this thinking? Attached below are my original
              post and Prometheus' reply.

              On an added note, I was reading TIME magazine, the Sept, 11, 2006
              edition, "What We Lost." Inside, there is an article on the
              conspiracy myths of 9/11 which might help explain our need to look
              for links tying in conspiracies to major tragic events--including
              suggesting that the mahanta might have been part of the terrorist
              activities. The article by Lev Grossman begins with this
              header: "Why the 9/11 Conspiracies Won't Go Away . . . Turns out, we
              need grand theories to make sense of grand events, or the world just
              seems too random."

              The article goes on to explain: "There are psychological
              explanations for why conspiracy theories are so seductive. Academics
              who study them argue that they meet a basic human need: to have the
              magnitude of any given effect be balanced by the magnitude of the
              cause behind it. A world in which tiny causes can have huge
              consequences feels scary and unreliable. Therefore a grand disaster
              like Sept. 11 needs a grand conspiracy behind it. 'We tend to
              associate major events--a President or princess dying--with major
              causes,' says Patrick Leman, a lecturer in psychology at Royal
              Holloway University of London, who has conducted studies on
              conspiracy belief.'If we think big events like a President being
              assassinated can happen at the hands of a minor individual, that
              points to the the unpredictability and randomness of life and
              unsettles us.' In that sense, the idea that there is a malevolent
              controlling force orchestrating global events is, in a perverse way,
              comforting."

              My hunch is that the eckist who was weaving in a 12 Year Cycle in
              eck to the events of 9/11/01 was simply trying to comfort himself by
              attempting to validate his belief in the power of his beloved
              mahanta, but in so doing, he actually turned his mahanta into an
              agent for the kal. Of course, those of us who view Klemp and his org
              as a cult, see this as the bigger picture; but of course, we know
              Klemp has no powers to control others or to orchestrate such worldly
              events! However, scamming people into believing in a bogus religion
              is definitely a conspiracy and as such has long range negative
              effects on those who fall for the scam until they, like us (former
              eckists) eventually come to recognize their own gulliability in
              being duped by the eck lies and deceptions. The realization of our
              gulliability is an awareness that will lead people, including some
              eckists eventually, to higher consciousness. The ties that
              unbind and liberate us back to being free thinkers and masters of
              our fate!

              Bringing our experiences and what we have gleaned from our "eck"
              experiences in posts to this site serve the purpose of helping
              others confused and questioning the eck leadership and org to come
              to this greater awareness. For me, a strong sense of duty to share
              my perspectives and experiences guides me to participate on this
              site. Looking back, it is really funny to see how I fell for the eck
              scam. I find it amusing as well as enlightening that it could happen
              to me! : )

              BTW, welcome Makizor and Victorious Traveler for joining our group!

              I've attached the earlier posts so one can easily access what was
              posted previously!

              Mish

              Prometheus wrote:

              It seems that Klemp's Connection (as Peter points out) to the
              Negative Events of 9/11/2001 do connect HK to the Kal! However,
              while ECKists are supposed to pay attention to details they are Not
              to see Negative connections to their Mahanta. This is the Catch-22
              rule that Klemp lives by. Of course, the Catch-22 rule was created
              by the Kal. Klemp, Gross, and Twitchell's Eckankar can't stand up to
              the Truth. Those Eckists who continue to believe these distortions
              and close their eyes and minds to Truth are only fooling themselves.

              Prometheus

              mishmisha wrote:

              Hi, All!
              I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we
              are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating
              attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001.
              As a further note, I have read some discussions by eckists who
              believe that no eckists perished in these attacks, as they were
              delayed or had changes of plans that kept them away from their jobs
              in the WTC and the Pentagon that day--they believe this is because
              eckists were protected by the mahanta. However, how do eckists
              account for the stories of other non-eckists who also did not go to
              work that day or were late, etc. and they too were spared the
              horrors of the day?? I have friends whose son and daughter-in-law
              would have been in the area, if not in the WTC that fateful day, but
              they had car trouble and were at a dealership looking to buy a new
              car. These are Christians who know nothing about eckankar or the
              mahanta. If no eckists were at all at the WTC or the Pentagon that
              day, I rather think it would be more because no eckists worked at
              those places in 2001! After all, eckists are quite a minority,
              religiously speaking--quite the minority in more ways than one! Just
              a small school of small fish in a very large pond!: )

              Below is the repost in which another eckist saw a connection between
              Harold Klemp (a twelve year cycle) and the terrorist attacks, which
              then asks the question, "Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist?" LOL!

              Hi, All!
              I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
              is) on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome
              realization." Here's his post:


              ********************************************************************

              "I just came to an Awesome Realization this morning. I was watching
              the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
              local Eck Center during a Satsang Class I'm attending. Toward the
              end of the tape Something Caught My Eye that I Almost Missed and
              Might Have Regarded Only Casually, BUT I Reversed The Tape to see it
              again. It was the Date that Sri Harold Broke Ground for the Temple--
              SEPTEMBER 11, 1989. The narrator stated the Time as 10:30 am (which
              would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).

              This is Exactly 12 Years Before the Events Surrounding the Attack on
              the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center Took Place. The First
              Plane Hit at 8:46 am and the Second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time
              (which is 1 hour later than Central Time). The First Tower Fell at
              10:05 am and the Second at 10:28 am. (Source:
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

              Exactly Twelve Years After Sri Harold Klemp Pierced the Earth with
              his Shovel, the Second Plane Had Hit its Tower 28 Minutes Earlier
              and the First Tower was to Fall 28 minutes Later.

              I'm Just Reporting the Facts. I can't help but entertain various
              interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
              interfere with the significance that any of you might see." [My caps]


              *********************************************************************
              ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
              Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
              a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
              earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
              label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
              thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
              Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
              Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
              with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
              there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
              with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
              become co-L.E.M. : )

              Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
              through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
              by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
              people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
              their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
              shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
              delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

              *********************************************************************
              Another eckist responded to this post:

              "Most of the Temple tour guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12
              are apparently very powerful. Can't say much more than that because
              I don't really understand it that well, myself. . . . "


              *********************************************************************

              ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
              ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
              worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
              Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
              mahanta! LOL!

              Mish
            • Elizabeth
              ... *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn t all that knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he wouldn t be worried
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 14, 2006
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                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                > protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through
                > Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World Wide
                > Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                > This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                > Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!
                >
                >

                *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all that
                knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show up
                at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
              • prometheus_973
                Hi Liz, Actually the Metal Detectors and bag searches didn t happen until after 9/11/2001. It doesn t have anything to do with people standing up to shout out
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 14, 2006
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                  Hi Liz,
                  Actually the Metal Detectors and bag searches didn't happen until
                  after 9/11/2001. It doesn't have anything to do with people standing
                  up to shout out and disrupt his talks. I've seen that happen before
                  and people could do that anyway with or without the other security
                  (fear) features. Besides, why would anyone want to harm Klemp AFTER
                  9/11 if they never tried BEFORE 9/11? The Security is for Klemp and
                  nobody else! BUT, why should HK be afraid? Maybe he's fearful and
                  paranoid because he's always been rather anti-social and reclusive?

                  Yes, it's true that Klemp has No real Spiritual Powers except in the
                  deluded minds of his followers/servants and in the false teachings
                  of the first Scammer Paul Twitchell. Klemp is very controlling,
                  unknowing and unloving, although, he'd never admit to any of this
                  due to his inflated ego and stubborn narrow-minded nature.

                  Look for some 09/2006 H.I. Letter information coming soon!

                  Prometheus

                  Elizabeth wrote:
                  Prometheus wrote:

                  What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                  protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through
                  Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World Wide
                  Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                  This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                  Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!

                  *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all that
                  knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                  wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show up
                  at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                • mishmisha9
                  Hi, All! I think as well that these actions demonstrate fear and it trickles down to the chelas--just another fear tactic. But who would really care that much
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 15, 2006
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                    Hi, All!

                    I think as well that these actions demonstrate fear and it trickles
                    down to the chelas--just another fear tactic. But who would really
                    care that much about a miniscule religion like eckankar and its
                    little godman to threaten it??? It's just a bunch of nonsense to try
                    to look important and to also make chelas jump through more hoops,
                    like little circus animals really! : )

                    But I have to admit, it would be fun to witness someone stand up and
                    shout at Klemp when he's giving one of his silly talks! Now, that
                    would be interesting . . . to see how Klemp would handle it. Well, I
                    guess, it's his show so one needs to be polite or not be there at
                    all! Yep, I'm not going to the EWWS this year, again! LOL!

                    Mish

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                    <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Liz,
                    > Actually the Metal Detectors and bag searches didn't happen until
                    > after 9/11/2001. It doesn't have anything to do with people
                    standing
                    > up to shout out and disrupt his talks. I've seen that happen
                    before
                    > and people could do that anyway with or without the other security
                    > (fear) features. Besides, why would anyone want to harm Klemp
                    AFTER
                    > 9/11 if they never tried BEFORE 9/11? The Security is for Klemp
                    and
                    > nobody else! BUT, why should HK be afraid? Maybe he's fearful and
                    > paranoid because he's always been rather anti-social and
                    reclusive?
                    >
                    > Yes, it's true that Klemp has No real Spiritual Powers except in
                    the
                    > deluded minds of his followers/servants and in the false teachings
                    > of the first Scammer Paul Twitchell. Klemp is very controlling,
                    > unknowing and unloving, although, he'd never admit to any of this
                    > due to his inflated ego and stubborn narrow-minded nature.
                    >
                    > Look for some 09/2006 H.I. Letter information coming soon!
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    > Elizabeth wrote:
                    > Prometheus wrote:
                    >
                    > What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                    > protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go
                    through
                    > Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World
                    Wide
                    > Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                    > This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                    > Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!
                    >
                    > *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all
                    that
                    > knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                    > wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show
                    up
                    > at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                    >
                  • prometheus_973
                    ECKists are preparing to make an outer pilgrimage to the 2006 EWWS. Why? And, are there Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the other Golden Wisdom Temples on
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 7, 2006
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                      ECKists are preparing to make an outer pilgrimage to the 2006 EWWS.
                      Why? And, are there Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the other
                      Golden Wisdom Temples on the physical Plane or on the "inner" at the
                      other Lower Plane Golden Wisdom Temples of ECK??

                      Hi Liz, (revised)
                      Actually the Metal Detectors and Bag Searches didn't happen until
                      After 9/11/2001. It doesn't have anything to do with people standing
                      up to shout out and disrupt his talks. I've seen that happen before
                      and they were led out to the hallway... no big deal really.
                      Sometimes normal/loyal ECKists will just get a little more out of
                      balance at these Seminars and tempers flare, etc. Also,
                      ECKists/people could shout out anyway with or without the security
                      (fear) features. Besides, why would anyone want to harm Klemp (AFTER
                      9/11) if they never tried BEFORE (9/11)? There was much more
                      animosity and hurt feelings around 1983-1984 when Gross (the 972nd
                      LEM/Mahanta) was being mistreated by Klemp and Company.

                      The Security is for Klemp and nobody else! This is why Metal
                      Detectors and Bag Searches are Only done when he is to speak in the
                      Main Hall.

                      On another note: Why are there searches at the Temple of ECK?
                      ECKists can't bring bags in with them on the Temple tours! Are
                      Eckists searched at every ECK Worship Service or just during the
                      Temple Tours? WHY? Why the fear? 99.9% of these people are ECKists!
                      This was never done before 9/11/2001.

                      Why should HK, the LEM/Mahanta, be afraid? HK's fearful and paranoid
                      because he's always been rather anti-social, reclusive, and
                      judgmental of others. He's an idiot and a scammer! Lately, I think
                      Klemp has been worried about that Negative Karma he's built up over
                      the years. The rationalizing about being the "fix" as a pseudo
                      saviour/master for ECKists to follow doesn't mean a thing any
                      longer. Klemp can no longer fool even himself about the real Truth!

                      Yes, it's true that Klemp has No real Spiritual Powers, except, in
                      the deluded minds of his followers/servants and in the false
                      teachings of the first Scammer Paul Twitchell. Klemp is very
                      controlling, unknowing and unloving, although, he'd never admit to
                      any of this due to his inflated ego and stubborn narrow-minded
                      nature.

                      Prometheus

                      Elizabeth wrote:
                      Prometheus wrote:

                      What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                      protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through
                      Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World Wide
                      Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                      This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                      Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!

                      *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all that
                      knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                      wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show up
                      at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                    • pretujari
                      Hi All, There s an African proverb which states that A scared man runs away when there is no one after him Pretujari ... EWWS. ... the ... standing ...
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 7, 2006
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                        Hi All,
                        There's an African proverb which states that 'A scared man runs away
                        when there is no one after him"

                        Pretujari

                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > ECKists are preparing to make an outer pilgrimage to the 2006
                        EWWS.
                        > Why? And, are there Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the other
                        > Golden Wisdom Temples on the physical Plane or on the "inner" at
                        the
                        > other Lower Plane Golden Wisdom Temples of ECK??
                        >
                        > Hi Liz, (revised)
                        > Actually the Metal Detectors and Bag Searches didn't happen until
                        > After 9/11/2001. It doesn't have anything to do with people
                        standing
                        > up to shout out and disrupt his talks. I've seen that happen
                        before
                        > and they were led out to the hallway... no big deal really.
                        > Sometimes normal/loyal ECKists will just get a little more out of
                        > balance at these Seminars and tempers flare, etc. Also,
                        > ECKists/people could shout out anyway with or without the security
                        > (fear) features. Besides, why would anyone want to harm Klemp
                        (AFTER
                        > 9/11) if they never tried BEFORE (9/11)? There was much more
                        > animosity and hurt feelings around 1983-1984 when Gross (the 972nd
                        > LEM/Mahanta) was being mistreated by Klemp and Company.
                        >
                        > The Security is for Klemp and nobody else! This is why Metal
                        > Detectors and Bag Searches are Only done when he is to speak in
                        the
                        > Main Hall.
                        >
                        > On another note: Why are there searches at the Temple of ECK?
                        > ECKists can't bring bags in with them on the Temple tours! Are
                        > Eckists searched at every ECK Worship Service or just during the
                        > Temple Tours? WHY? Why the fear? 99.9% of these people are
                        ECKists!
                        > This was never done before 9/11/2001.
                        >
                        > Why should HK, the LEM/Mahanta, be afraid? HK's fearful and
                        paranoid
                        > because he's always been rather anti-social, reclusive, and
                        > judgmental of others. He's an idiot and a scammer! Lately, I think
                        > Klemp has been worried about that Negative Karma he's built up
                        over
                        > the years. The rationalizing about being the "fix" as a pseudo
                        > saviour/master for ECKists to follow doesn't mean a thing any
                        > longer. Klemp can no longer fool even himself about the real
                        Truth!
                        >
                        > Yes, it's true that Klemp has No real Spiritual Powers, except, in
                        > the deluded minds of his followers/servants and in the false
                        > teachings of the first Scammer Paul Twitchell. Klemp is very
                        > controlling, unknowing and unloving, although, he'd never admit to
                        > any of this due to his inflated ego and stubborn narrow-minded
                        > nature.
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        > Elizabeth wrote:
                        > Prometheus wrote:
                        >
                        > What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                        > protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go
                        through
                        > Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World
                        Wide
                        > Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                        > This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                        > Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!
                        >
                        > *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all
                        that
                        > knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                        > wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show
                        up
                        > at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                        >
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