Re: Is Soul Free or Does IT Need Klemp?
- Hi, All!
Here's a thought about Prometheus's observation in the recent Mystic
World--is it necessary for eckists to make a pilgrimage to
Chanhassen? Perhaps, Harold is subtly suggesting that it is not
necessary to make this travel there. Maybe, Harold is thinking if
they don't come in droves, he can quit getting up on stage and stop
giving those silly in-person talks. After all, he is not that well
physically and it would take yet another load off of his extremely
busy days! LOL!
We were discussing a while back about the possibility of Joan
becoming a co-L.E.M. so that she can take on some of these duties
for Harold and he could just function on the "inner" as the mahanta.
But now they might be re-thinking--what, the heck, no need to
continue the talks. If they (the chelas) don't come, Harold won't
have to sit up there on stage--and no need to make Joan co-L.E.M.
After all, the mahanta doesn't want to be second guessed, does
he? : )
As to the money not being spent? Why certainly the money chelas save
on travel and hotel expenses, etc., they can donate more freely and
directly to the Temple, and also spend more of their money on vahana
work and buying eck publications. It looks like a winning scheme
that might be in the works!
Meanwhile, what will Harold being doing on Oct. 22 each year? He can
do a video address while basking somewhere on a nice sunny warm
vacation retreat. Sounds like the perfect life to me! LOL!
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
On page 2 of the 09/2006 "The Mystic World of Eckankar" is a picture
of Eckists sitting outside on the patio at the Temple of Eck and
looking toward the Chapel while on a visit/tour during the 2006
Directly under this picture is a "Spiritual Tip" titled Holy Ground.
The thing is that the quote (taken from the Mahanta Transcripts,
Book 16) contradicts the view that the Eck Temple, Chapel, ESC, is
Holy Ground! Therefore, why is it necessary for Eckists to make a
pilgrimage to Chanhassen, MN?
The quote points out that wherever the individual Soul
walks is Holy Ground and that everything is between God and Soul.
There is no need for a Mahanta or for Eck Masters. "Soul is the
center of the universe..." However, Klemp does use a "BUT" and
an "IF" which makes me wonder if he is being truthful.
HK: "BUT wherever you are is holy IF you recognize at any given
moment that you are in the precence of God."
Of course, another problem we have is with the use of the
word "God." Every true Eckist knows that "God" is really the Kal and
is Not the same as SUGMAD. This is just "common language" used to
make the public feel comfortable, as well as, to trick them
(temporarily) until they become more trusting (open) and are able to
handle "higher truths" via the Mahanta's guidance. LOL!
Klemp states that: "Sometimes we get things backward: we feel that
we have to go to a holy place and only there are we in the presence
of God. Sometimes it's a holy mountain, or a holy building."
So, you see - it's very interesting that this is stated directly
under the picture of the Eck Chapel, Temple patio, and the "Holy"
grounds. Perhaps this is Golden-Tongued Wisdom for all Eckists and a
clue for them to spend their hard earned money elsewhere instead of
traveling to Minneapolis for pilgrimages to the Temple and the "Holy
Grounds" of Chanhassen.
- Hello All,
I just thought I'd bring this current article back to the front page
for anyone (especially Eckists) to read this weekend. I'll be
posting Klemp's 09/2006 Wisdom Notes soon. I'll look forward to
reading comments on HK's distorted 20/20 hindsight view of history.
Hi Ingrid and All,
I'll add my comments to Klemp's "expert" opinions on the dreams
described in his article. Really though, Klemp's opinions are no
better than anyone's, especially, that of the actual dreamer! And,
these insights and opinions may, in many cases, have more to do
with "us" than the original dreamer. Spirit works in mysterious ways
and Klemp is usually oblivious to this, as well as, his ever growing
"Oh, You've Come So Far!" by Harold Klemp
HK: "The host of a call-in radio program calls himself an expert on
dreams. He is a psychiatrist. Callers' questions about a strange
or haunting dream are grain for his mill. Most dreams are easy fixes
for him. They express some unconscious wish or feeling of the
### Actually, the dreams of Eckists that are sent via Initiate
Reports, etc. are also "grain" for Klemp's "mill" and are "easy
fixes" for HK too. Klemp even uses them to "write" book upon book!
How proud these Eckists are that get their dreams printed
(mentioned)! However, this is just more vanity accruing for these
proud Eckists and their wealthy puffed-up "International Who's Who
of Intellectuals Ninth Edition" Mahanta! LOL!
*** Well, most of the dreams *are* that, are they not?!
### Yes, many dreams do express "unconscious wishes or feelings."
However, I also see Klemp putting down the talk show host for being
a psychiatrist. Perhaps HK still has some unresolved anger of that
1970 visit he had when he was locked up in a Mental Instituition!
Remember, Klemp claims he had learned "to play the game" in order to
be released after three weeks!
HK: "For me, the most interesting part of the program is the
questions. The host's answers often hit a wall, though, or dribble
off into a self-satisfying string of mumbo jumbo. The show
conveniently airs before bedtime. The few times I braved a segment
of it, it put me in a mood to sleep."
*** HK can't withstand the temptation to put others down, can he? Is
it True, Necessary, Kind and Loving?!
### Klemp's comments of this talk show host are getting rather nasty
and personal it seems (more flash-backs). This reminds me of his
nasty comments in the 09/2003 H.I. Letter towards that Third
Temporary Postal Clerk (Fill-in) when H.K. defended Joan for her
violating the Law of Economy (Not showing her I.D. before the clerk
looked for her package), having too much pride of her position at
the ESC, and for her impatience.
HK: "Recently, a caller told of a dream that baffled this dream
expert. The expert, an authority, would not--could not--admit that
it mystified him too, that it was beyond his area of expertise. Most
of you would have immediately known this dream for what it was. It
was a vivid past-life experience."
*** How does HK know that it mystified the host of the show?! So HK,
the expert on all dreams, knows immediately that it was a vivid past-
life experience. Well, I think this is known among dream experts as
well! "Normal" human beings do believe in reincarnation, too!
### Doesn't Klemp also claim to be an "expert" and an "authority"
and much much more! How arrogant! Klemp is too clueless to
be "mystified" of anything he's a know-it-all in his (and Eckists')
own delusional mind(s)!
HK: "This dream had recurred many times over the last Twenty Years
and was notable in that it always replayed battle scenes of the
American Civil War of the 1860s. And the dreamer always floated
above them. He could describe the uniforms, the cannons, the horses
and their riders, the weather, the soldiers' guns, the officers'
swords, and the like. He saw the wounded and the dead. And he could
even smell the smoke of cannon fire." [My caps]
*** Well, there it is again - HK's favorite topic - wars! It always
comes down to that it seems to me! He seems to love it! :-))
### Yes, and HK never takes a position or to comment how futile it
all is, or why can't we all just get along, or the "whys" of why we
can't! This would be a good time to go more indepth and present the
higher truths that Soul is seeking. Klemp is message is boring and
redundant and never benefits the advanced Soul. And, aren't Eckists
supposed to be "advanced" Souls? Where's the Spiritual Meat?!
HK: "Evidently, dreams of past lives are not in the expert's
repertoire of explanations. Yet he let on that the matter was very
clear to him. By some leap of logic I didn't follow, he tied the
dream to the caller's childhood on his grandfather's farm. Forget
about the caller's you-are-there descriptions of another time and
place. To the expert it was all just a subconscious expression of
*** I can imagine that you couldn't follow this "leap of logic", HK!
And subconscious isn't allowed in eckankar! So just forget it, it's
a big no-no! That's why so many eckists are controlled by their
subconscious because HK always appeals to that, seemingly without
knowing it! LOL!
### I agree Ingrid, why can't the LEM/Mahanta follow the "leap in
logic?" Maybe Klemp is in denial of some childhood events that
occurred back on his parent's farm that he refuses to face! Klemp
does seem to hang onto anger and dwells in and recreates past events
to suit his scamming agenda and false image.
HK: "Other questions were brushed aside with wordy tut-tuts. This
exchange must have left the dreamer as puzzled as ever, driving him
on to seek more satisfying answers from some other source."
*** Well, one must be aware that seeking advice in a radio show
isn't the best way to get answers to one's questions! I would go to
see some kind of counselor, specialized on dreams perhaps!
### Klemp needs to look into a mirror more often. HK is an expert at
saying nothing while putting down others. Have Eckists ever read
his "loser" comments. Do Klemp's words depict a "Loving" master or
another Jerry Falwell?
HK: "The greatest favor we can do for ourselves is to say we don't
know when we don't know."
*** So HK, you don't know a lot - did you ever say so?!
### Well HK did say that he couldn't follow the psychiatrist's "Leap
of Logic," however, HK was either Not being honest (unless is is
that stupid), or he was being sarcastic (negative).
HK: "Vast are the worlds of ECK. The experiences we can have within
them are more than there are stars in the heavens. Odds are strong--
overwhelming--that you will often run into things you could never
*** Yes HK that happens! What counts is our response to those
unimagined things! Well, Joan couldn't adapt too well to this
temporary postal clerk, could she! LOL!
### Yep, that poor postal clerk! What negativity he had to fend off!
It's a good thing that 9th Initiate Joan and 14th Initiate Harry
aren't as powerful as they delude themselves to be! Of course, I'm
just kidding about that. JK and HK know that it's all a scam. The
Eckists are the only ones that are deluded!
HK: "This physical life has plenty of surprises too. IF your
spiritual unfoldment is on track, you will many times find yourself
saying about an experience or condition, 'I just don't know.'"
*** "Normal" humble people say that very often, too! It's because
life is wonderful and really full of surprises which makes life here
so great, at least for me! :-)
### It's true that sometimes we can't see what is happening or the
reasons for it because we either don't look hard enough (aren't
interested), we are being spared the pain of knowing the outcome
before events play out, because we sometimes just need to learn by
repetition, and we see and experience things according to what we
need (for spiritual growth) and can handle.
HK: "BUT there are also many things you will know. And it's because
the Mahanta will show you." [My caps]
*** No, thanks - no need of a mahanta! :-)
### Notice that Klemp is still using BUT and IF in his articles to
Eckists when he stated in the 12/2005 H.I. Letter Not to or avoid
using these words with other Eckists. Eckists shouldn't trust that
Klemp is truthful about anything he says!
[Second dream comments]
HK: "For example, what do you think the dream authority would have
made of this dream reported by someone we will call Belle? In the
dream state she was visiting friends, sitting in a large,
overstuffed chair. They had a huge pet lizard colored like a Gila
monster, a large, poisonous reptile found in Arizona, where she was
born and briefly lived later."
### What makes Klemp an authority? He was initiated by a Thief who
was also a Black Magician (Gross) who was in turn initiated by the
Eck Board of Trustees and Officers on Gail's Twitchell's behalf.
And, the whole Eckankar scam was created by a Liar - Paul Twitchell.
And, Rebazar was created by Twit so it isn't R.T. who "Fills-in" as
needed either! This is just more myth. Ask Doug Marman!
HK: "However, Belle found this pet lizard loving and sweet. She was
not afraid of it. It crawled over her shoulder, down her arm, and
into her lap. Then it crept up her front and licked her face. The
alarm clock rang. Since it was an odd dream, she made a note
of it in her dream journal."
### Perhaps this has more to do with Belle overcoming fear!
HK: "What do you think the dream expert's analysis would have
### I guess we're about to hear what the other "expert" (HK) is
about to say. However, you know what they say about opinions don't
you? They are like ass holes - everyone has one!
HK: "Well, he never would get a chance to air it, because at
breakfast that very morning, the Mahanta, the Inner Master, gave
Belle its meaning. And it rang so true."
### I'm curious as to why HK listens to this Radio Show before he
goes to sleep. Why does the so-called LEM/Mahanta do this? Is this
the only way he is able to dream? Sad state of affairs for Eckists!
HK: "She was at the table eating breakfast, reading the latest issue
of Arizona Highways. Her attention was captured by a photo of a Gila
monster. Alongside it was an article on how medical scientists had
discovered that its saliva contained a substance to help balance
insulin levels in type 2 diabetes. There is also a new medication
on the market made of a synthesized version of this substance."
### I'll bet that this magazine cover was seen by her prior to her
dream and that her unconscious mind dreamed about it. Maybe it did
have to do with her sugar intake or Not! Like I previously stated,
maybe the dream had more to do with her facing hers fears. Or, Klemp
is just flexing his knowledge and Who's Who intellect! LOL!
HK: "This was a health warning from the Master. Belle is not a
diabetic, BUT for a full week, she had been craving sweet things.
The warning said, 'You're taking in too much sugar." So she said
good-bye to the ice cream and cookies." [My caps]
*** Well I'm sure she would have thought about this without the
mahanta as well because her own Higher Self, which HK tries to
invade and take over, would have guided her there! And much better
than HK, the mahanta, the intruder, ever could!
### Very true! Klemp is very good at putting words and opinions in
the mouth of others. This person (Soul) will figure it out without
being misdirected by a pseudo expert and master.
HK: "Here, then, you've met two very differnt dreamers, with two
very different dream advisers. The Mahanta's advice is worlds beyond
that of this other self-described expert. So very, very far beyond
*** The master of the universe is the greatest expert of course! And
why can't he speak through the radio show host for example? There's
something called golden tongued wisdom in eckankar, and the eck
should be able to speak through anyone, not only HK!
### Klemp makes it sound like he is the only "expert" who knows
anything about past lives. LOL! Many thousands of people outside of
Eckankar know much more about this topic than Klemp claims to know
or will ever know! And, Klemp's very nasty, once again, when he
attempts to belittle this psychiatrist by calling him a "self-
described expert!" What does Klemp think he is? LOL! Again, I really
believe that Klemp is still holding onto anger from his
incarceration in a Mental Institution. IMO- HK is transferring this
unresolved anger to all psychiatrists and other mental health
HK: "Look back sometime and see how far you've come in ECK. And it's
all because of your love for the Master."
*** Yeah look back on how much money you have already spent to this
silly organization to have the protection of the so-called master!
This protection isn't worth a dime! Just rely on you own inner and
Higher Self who doesn't need your money to make a good living out of
it, on your expense!
### True, Ingrid, money and time was wasted on a scam that created
more and more distortions of the real Truth we were seeking. The
harm in Eckankar is that the seeker must adopt delusion or become
more delusional in order to fit-in and have Eckie "experiences."
Eckankar encourages dependency and attachment to a LEM/Mahanta and
increases one's vanity via higher initiations. Eckists, does this
sound like it could be another Kal trap like other religions - nah!
That's just your imagination or is it?