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Re: Is Soul Free or Does IT Need Klemp?

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  • mishmisha9
    Hi, All! Here s a thought about Prometheus s observation in the recent Mystic World--is it necessary for eckists to make a pilgrimage to Chanhassen? Perhaps,
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 19, 2006
      Hi, All!

      Here's a thought about Prometheus's observation in the recent Mystic
      World--is it necessary for eckists to make a pilgrimage to
      Chanhassen? Perhaps, Harold is subtly suggesting that it is not
      necessary to make this travel there. Maybe, Harold is thinking if
      they don't come in droves, he can quit getting up on stage and stop
      giving those silly in-person talks. After all, he is not that well
      physically and it would take yet another load off of his extremely
      busy days! LOL!

      We were discussing a while back about the possibility of Joan
      becoming a co-L.E.M. so that she can take on some of these duties
      for Harold and he could just function on the "inner" as the mahanta.
      But now they might be re-thinking--what, the heck, no need to
      continue the talks. If they (the chelas) don't come, Harold won't
      have to sit up there on stage--and no need to make Joan co-L.E.M.
      After all, the mahanta doesn't want to be second guessed, does
      he? : )

      As to the money not being spent? Why certainly the money chelas save
      on travel and hotel expenses, etc., they can donate more freely and
      directly to the Temple, and also spend more of their money on vahana
      work and buying eck publications. It looks like a winning scheme
      that might be in the works!

      Meanwhile, what will Harold being doing on Oct. 22 each year? He can
      do a video address while basking somewhere on a nice sunny warm
      vacation retreat. Sounds like the perfect life to me! LOL!

      Mish

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

      Hello All,
      On page 2 of the 09/2006 "The Mystic World of Eckankar" is a picture
      of Eckists sitting outside on the patio at the Temple of Eck and
      looking toward the Chapel while on a visit/tour during the 2006
      Springtime Seminar.

      Directly under this picture is a "Spiritual Tip" titled Holy Ground.
      The thing is that the quote (taken from the Mahanta Transcripts,
      Book 16) contradicts the view that the Eck Temple, Chapel, ESC, is
      Holy Ground! Therefore, why is it necessary for Eckists to make a
      pilgrimage to Chanhassen, MN?

      The quote points out that wherever the individual Soul
      walks is Holy Ground and that everything is between God and Soul.
      There is no need for a Mahanta or for Eck Masters. "Soul is the
      center of the universe..." However, Klemp does use a "BUT" and
      an "IF" which makes me wonder if he is being truthful.

      HK: "BUT wherever you are is holy IF you recognize at any given
      moment that you are in the precence of God."

      Of course, another problem we have is with the use of the
      word "God." Every true Eckist knows that "God" is really the Kal and
      is Not the same as SUGMAD. This is just "common language" used to
      make the public feel comfortable, as well as, to trick them
      (temporarily) until they become more trusting (open) and are able to
      handle "higher truths" via the Mahanta's guidance. LOL!

      Klemp states that: "Sometimes we get things backward: we feel that
      we have to go to a holy place and only there are we in the presence
      of God. Sometimes it's a holy mountain, or a holy building."

      So, you see - it's very interesting that this is stated directly
      under the picture of the Eck Chapel, Temple patio, and the "Holy"
      grounds. Perhaps this is Golden-Tongued Wisdom for all Eckists and a
      clue for them to spend their hard earned money elsewhere instead of
      traveling to Minneapolis for pilgrimages to the Temple and the "Holy
      Grounds" of Chanhassen.

      Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, I just thought I d bring this current article back to the front page for anyone (especially Eckists) to read this weekend. I ll be posting Klemp s
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 19, 2006
        Hello All,
        I just thought I'd bring this current article back to the front page
        for anyone (especially Eckists) to read this weekend. I'll be
        posting Klemp's 09/2006 Wisdom Notes soon. I'll look forward to
        reading comments on HK's distorted 20/20 hindsight view of history.

        ********************************************************************

        Hi Ingrid and All,
        I'll add my comments to Klemp's "expert" opinions on the dreams
        described in his article. Really though, Klemp's opinions are no
        better than anyone's, especially, that of the actual dreamer! And,
        these insights and opinions may, in many cases, have more to do
        with "us" than the original dreamer. Spirit works in mysterious ways
        and Klemp is usually oblivious to this, as well as, his ever growing
        Karmic debt!


        "Oh, You've Come So Far!" by Harold Klemp

        HK: "The host of a call-in radio program calls himself an expert on
        dreams. He is a psychiatrist. Callers' questions about a strange
        or haunting dream are grain for his mill. Most dreams are easy fixes
        for him. They express some unconscious wish or feeling of the
        dreamer."

        [Me]
        ### Actually, the dreams of Eckists that are sent via Initiate
        Reports, etc. are also "grain" for Klemp's "mill" and are "easy
        fixes" for HK too. Klemp even uses them to "write" book upon book!
        How proud these Eckists are that get their dreams printed
        (mentioned)! However, this is just more vanity accruing for these
        proud Eckists and their wealthy puffed-up "International Who's Who
        of Intellectuals Ninth Edition" Mahanta! LOL!

        [Ingrid]
        *** Well, most of the dreams *are* that, are they not?!

        ### Yes, many dreams do express "unconscious wishes or feelings."
        However, I also see Klemp putting down the talk show host for being
        a psychiatrist. Perhaps HK still has some unresolved anger of that
        1970 visit he had when he was locked up in a Mental Instituition!
        Remember, Klemp claims he had learned "to play the game" in order to
        be released after three weeks!

        HK: "For me, the most interesting part of the program is the
        questions. The host's answers often hit a wall, though, or dribble
        off into a self-satisfying string of mumbo jumbo. The show
        conveniently airs before bedtime. The few times I braved a segment
        of it, it put me in a mood to sleep."

        *** HK can't withstand the temptation to put others down, can he? Is
        it True, Necessary, Kind and Loving?!

        ### Klemp's comments of this talk show host are getting rather nasty
        and personal it seems (more flash-backs). This reminds me of his
        nasty comments in the 09/2003 H.I. Letter towards that Third
        Temporary Postal Clerk (Fill-in) when H.K. defended Joan for her
        violating the Law of Economy (Not showing her I.D. before the clerk
        looked for her package), having too much pride of her position at
        the ESC, and for her impatience.

        HK: "Recently, a caller told of a dream that baffled this dream
        expert. The expert, an authority, would not--could not--admit that
        it mystified him too, that it was beyond his area of expertise. Most
        of you would have immediately known this dream for what it was. It
        was a vivid past-life experience."

        *** How does HK know that it mystified the host of the show?! So HK,
        the expert on all dreams, knows immediately that it was a vivid past-
        life experience. Well, I think this is known among dream experts as
        well! "Normal" human beings do believe in reincarnation, too!

        ### Doesn't Klemp also claim to be an "expert" and an "authority"
        and much much more! How arrogant! Klemp is too clueless to
        be "mystified" of anything he's a know-it-all in his (and Eckists')
        own delusional mind(s)!

        HK: "This dream had recurred many times over the last Twenty Years
        and was notable in that it always replayed battle scenes of the
        American Civil War of the 1860s. And the dreamer always floated
        above them. He could describe the uniforms, the cannons, the horses
        and their riders, the weather, the soldiers' guns, the officers'
        swords, and the like. He saw the wounded and the dead. And he could
        even smell the smoke of cannon fire." [My caps]

        *** Well, there it is again - HK's favorite topic - wars! It always
        comes down to that it seems to me! He seems to love it! :-))

        ### Yes, and HK never takes a position or to comment how futile it
        all is, or why can't we all just get along, or the "whys" of why we
        can't! This would be a good time to go more indepth and present the
        higher truths that Soul is seeking. Klemp is message is boring and
        redundant and never benefits the advanced Soul. And, aren't Eckists
        supposed to be "advanced" Souls? Where's the Spiritual Meat?!

        HK: "Evidently, dreams of past lives are not in the expert's
        repertoire of explanations. Yet he let on that the matter was very
        clear to him. By some leap of logic I didn't follow, he tied the
        dream to the caller's childhood on his grandfather's farm. Forget
        about the caller's you-are-there descriptions of another time and
        place. To the expert it was all just a subconscious expression of
        his feelings."

        *** I can imagine that you couldn't follow this "leap of logic", HK!
        And subconscious isn't allowed in eckankar! So just forget it, it's
        a big no-no! That's why so many eckists are controlled by their
        subconscious because HK always appeals to that, seemingly without
        knowing it! LOL!

        ### I agree Ingrid, why can't the LEM/Mahanta follow the "leap in
        logic?" Maybe Klemp is in denial of some childhood events that
        occurred back on his parent's farm that he refuses to face! Klemp
        does seem to hang onto anger and dwells in and recreates past events
        to suit his scamming agenda and false image.


        HK: "Other questions were brushed aside with wordy tut-tuts. This
        exchange must have left the dreamer as puzzled as ever, driving him
        on to seek more satisfying answers from some other source."

        *** Well, one must be aware that seeking advice in a radio show
        isn't the best way to get answers to one's questions! I would go to
        see some kind of counselor, specialized on dreams perhaps!

        ### Klemp needs to look into a mirror more often. HK is an expert at
        saying nothing while putting down others. Have Eckists ever read
        his "loser" comments. Do Klemp's words depict a "Loving" master or
        another Jerry Falwell?

        HK: "The greatest favor we can do for ourselves is to say we don't
        know when we don't know."

        *** So HK, you don't know a lot - did you ever say so?!

        ### Well HK did say that he couldn't follow the psychiatrist's "Leap
        of Logic," however, HK was either Not being honest (unless is is
        that stupid), or he was being sarcastic (negative).

        HK: "Vast are the worlds of ECK. The experiences we can have within
        them are more than there are stars in the heavens. Odds are strong--
        overwhelming--that you will often run into things you could never
        have imagined."

        *** Yes HK that happens! What counts is our response to those
        unimagined things! Well, Joan couldn't adapt too well to this
        temporary postal clerk, could she! LOL!

        ### Yep, that poor postal clerk! What negativity he had to fend off!
        It's a good thing that 9th Initiate Joan and 14th Initiate Harry
        aren't as powerful as they delude themselves to be! Of course, I'm
        just kidding about that. JK and HK know that it's all a scam. The
        Eckists are the only ones that are deluded!

        HK: "This physical life has plenty of surprises too. IF your
        spiritual unfoldment is on track, you will many times find yourself
        saying about an experience or condition, 'I just don't know.'"

        *** "Normal" humble people say that very often, too! It's because
        life is wonderful and really full of surprises which makes life here
        so great, at least for me! :-)

        ### It's true that sometimes we can't see what is happening or the
        reasons for it because we either don't look hard enough (aren't
        interested), we are being spared the pain of knowing the outcome
        before events play out, because we sometimes just need to learn by
        repetition, and we see and experience things according to what we
        need (for spiritual growth) and can handle.

        HK: "BUT there are also many things you will know. And it's because
        the Mahanta will show you." [My caps]

        *** No, thanks - no need of a mahanta! :-)

        ### Notice that Klemp is still using BUT and IF in his articles to
        Eckists when he stated in the 12/2005 H.I. Letter Not to or avoid
        using these words with other Eckists. Eckists shouldn't trust that
        Klemp is truthful about anything he says!

        [Second dream comments]

        HK: "For example, what do you think the dream authority would have
        made of this dream reported by someone we will call Belle? In the
        dream state she was visiting friends, sitting in a large,
        overstuffed chair. They had a huge pet lizard colored like a Gila
        monster, a large, poisonous reptile found in Arizona, where she was
        born and briefly lived later."

        ### What makes Klemp an authority? He was initiated by a Thief who
        was also a Black Magician (Gross) who was in turn initiated by the
        Eck Board of Trustees and Officers on Gail's Twitchell's behalf.
        And, the whole Eckankar scam was created by a Liar - Paul Twitchell.
        And, Rebazar was created by Twit so it isn't R.T. who "Fills-in" as
        needed either! This is just more myth. Ask Doug Marman!

        HK: "However, Belle found this pet lizard loving and sweet. She was
        not afraid of it. It crawled over her shoulder, down her arm, and
        into her lap. Then it crept up her front and licked her face. The
        alarm clock rang. Since it was an odd dream, she made a note
        of it in her dream journal."

        ### Perhaps this has more to do with Belle overcoming fear!

        HK: "What do you think the dream expert's analysis would have
        sounded like?"

        ### I guess we're about to hear what the other "expert" (HK) is
        about to say. However, you know what they say about opinions don't
        you? They are like ass holes - everyone has one!

        HK: "Well, he never would get a chance to air it, because at
        breakfast that very morning, the Mahanta, the Inner Master, gave
        Belle its meaning. And it rang so true."

        ### I'm curious as to why HK listens to this Radio Show before he
        goes to sleep. Why does the so-called LEM/Mahanta do this? Is this
        the only way he is able to dream? Sad state of affairs for Eckists!

        HK: "She was at the table eating breakfast, reading the latest issue
        of Arizona Highways. Her attention was captured by a photo of a Gila
        monster. Alongside it was an article on how medical scientists had
        discovered that its saliva contained a substance to help balance
        insulin levels in type 2 diabetes. There is also a new medication
        on the market made of a synthesized version of this substance."

        ### I'll bet that this magazine cover was seen by her prior to her
        dream and that her unconscious mind dreamed about it. Maybe it did
        have to do with her sugar intake or Not! Like I previously stated,
        maybe the dream had more to do with her facing hers fears. Or, Klemp
        is just flexing his knowledge and Who's Who intellect! LOL!

        HK: "This was a health warning from the Master. Belle is not a
        diabetic, BUT for a full week, she had been craving sweet things.
        The warning said, 'You're taking in too much sugar." So she said
        good-bye to the ice cream and cookies." [My caps]

        *** Well I'm sure she would have thought about this without the
        mahanta as well because her own Higher Self, which HK tries to
        invade and take over, would have guided her there! And much better
        than HK, the mahanta, the intruder, ever could!

        ### Very true! Klemp is very good at putting words and opinions in
        the mouth of others. This person (Soul) will figure it out without
        being misdirected by a pseudo expert and master.

        HK: "Here, then, you've met two very differnt dreamers, with two
        very different dream advisers. The Mahanta's advice is worlds beyond
        that of this other self-described expert. So very, very far beyond
        his.

        *** The master of the universe is the greatest expert of course! And
        why can't he speak through the radio show host for example? There's
        something called golden tongued wisdom in eckankar, and the eck
        should be able to speak through anyone, not only HK!

        ### Klemp makes it sound like he is the only "expert" who knows
        anything about past lives. LOL! Many thousands of people outside of
        Eckankar know much more about this topic than Klemp claims to know
        or will ever know! And, Klemp's very nasty, once again, when he
        attempts to belittle this psychiatrist by calling him a "self-
        described expert!" What does Klemp think he is? LOL! Again, I really
        believe that Klemp is still holding onto anger from his
        incarceration in a Mental Institution. IMO- HK is transferring this
        unresolved anger to all psychiatrists and other mental health
        practitioners.

        HK: "Look back sometime and see how far you've come in ECK. And it's
        all because of your love for the Master."

        *** Yeah look back on how much money you have already spent to this
        silly organization to have the protection of the so-called master!
        This protection isn't worth a dime! Just rely on you own inner and
        Higher Self who doesn't need your money to make a good living out of
        it, on your expense!

        ### True, Ingrid, money and time was wasted on a scam that created
        more and more distortions of the real Truth we were seeking. The
        harm in Eckankar is that the seeker must adopt delusion or become
        more delusional in order to fit-in and have Eckie "experiences."
        Eckankar encourages dependency and attachment to a LEM/Mahanta and
        increases one's vanity via higher initiations. Eckists, does this
        sound like it could be another Kal trap like other religions - nah!
        That's just your imagination or is it?

        Prometheus
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