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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar: 09/2006 The Mystic World

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  • Ed Kusi
    Hi Folks, So what kind of godman is Klemp? A Godman is supposed to bring peace, light, and warmth in his/her surroundings to affect even the entire world.
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 17 6:28 AM
      Hi Folks,
      So what kind of ' godman' is Klemp? A 'Godman' is supposed to bring peace, light, and warmth in his/her surroundings to affect even the entire world. Not Klemp. He breaks the ground for his temple complex with deceit and lies as the foundation and twelve years later, according to his deluded followers, there's a terrorist attack and thousands of people loose their lives. Not to mention the devastation to families. If he is responsible for this then he is responsible for all the world's catastrophes since he's been around as 'mah-hon-tah.' LOL. So when was it that Klempus sneezed or stubbed his toe that many years ago that resulted in the Tsunami, H. Katrina and the like? All in the name of purification? Purification for those who loose their lives or those who are affected by the lives lost? So bloody negative for a 'Godman' and 'Chief Messenger of God in all the Universes!
      Pretujari

      prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      Hi Ingrid and All,
      I'll add my comments to Klemp's "expert" opinions on the dreams
      described in his article. Really though, Klemp's opinions are no
      better than anyone's, especially, that of the actual dreamer! And,
      these insights and opinions may, in many cases, have more to do
      with "us" than the original dreamer. Spirit works in mysterious ways
      and Klemp is usually oblivious to this, as well as, his ever growing
      Karmic debt!

      "Oh, You've Come So Far!" by Harold Klemp

      HK: "The host of a call-in radio program calls himself an expert on
      dreams. He is a psychiatrist. Callers' questions about a strange
      or haunting dream are grain for his mill. Most dreams are easy fixes
      for him. They express some unconscious wish or feeling of the
      dreamer."

      [Me]
      ### Actually, the dreams of Eckists that are sent via Initiate
      Reports, etc. are also "grain" for Klemp's "mill" and are "easy
      fixes" for HK too. Klemp even uses them to "write" book upon book!
      How proud these Eckists are that get their dreams printed
      (mentioned)! However, this is just more vanity accruing for these
      proud Eckists and their wealthy puffed-up "International Who's Who
      of Intellectuals Ninth Edition" Mahanta! LOL!

      [Ingrid]
      *** Well, most of the dreams *are* that, are they not?!

      ### Yes, many dreams do express "unconscious wishes or feelings."
      However, I also see Klemp putting down the talk show host for being
      a psychiatrist. Perhaps HK still has some unresolved anger of that
      1970 visit he had when he was locked up in a Mental Instituition!
      Remember, Klemp claims he had learned "to play the game" in order to
      be released after three weeks!

      HK: "For me, the most interesting part of the program is the
      questions. The host's answers often hit a wall, though, or dribble
      off into a self-satisfying string of mumbo jumbo. The show
      conveniently airs before bedtime. The few times I braved a segment
      of it, it put me in a mood to sleep."

      *** HK can't withstand the temptation to put others down, can he? Is
      it True, Necessary, Kind and Loving?!

      ### Klemp's comments of this talk show host are getting rather nasty
      and personal it seems (more flash-backs) . This reminds me of his
      nasty comments in the 09/2003 H.I. Letter towards that Third
      Temporary Postal Clerk (Fill-in) when H.K. defended Joan for her
      violating the Law of Economy (Not showing her I.D. before the clerk
      looked for her package), having too much pride of her position at
      the ESC, and for her impatience.

      HK: "Recently, a caller told of a dream that baffled this dream
      expert. The expert, an authority, would not--could not--admit that
      it mystified him too, that it was beyond his area of expertise. Most
      of you would have immediately known this dream for what it was. It
      was a vivid past-life experience."

      *** How does HK know that it mystified the host of the show?! So HK,
      the expert on all dreams, knows immediately that it was a vivid past-
      life experience. Well, I think this is known among dream experts as
      well! "Normal" human beings do believe in reincarnation, too!

      ### Doesn't Klemp also claim to be an "expert" and an "authority"
      and much much more! How arrogant! Klemp is too clueless to
      be "mystified" of anything he's a know-it-all in his (and Eckists')
      own delusional mind(s)!

      HK: "This dream had recurred many times over the last Twenty Years
      and was notable in that it always replayed battle scenes of the
      American Civil War of the 1860s. And the dreamer always floated
      above them. He could describe the uniforms, the cannons, the horses
      and their riders, the weather, the soldiers' guns, the officers'
      swords, and the like. He saw the wounded and the dead. And he could
      even smell the smoke of cannon fire." [My caps]

      *** Well, there it is again - HK's favorite topic - wars! It always
      comes down to that it seems to me! He seems to love it! :-))

      ### Yes, and HK never takes a position or to comment how futile it
      all is, or why can't we all just get along, or the "whys" of why we
      can't! This would be a good time to go more indepth and present the
      higher truths that Soul is seeking. Klemp is message is boring and
      redundant and never benefits the advanced Soul. And, aren't Eckists
      supposed to be "advanced" Souls? Where's the Spiritual Meat?!

      HK: "Evidently, dreams of past lives are not in the expert's
      repertoire of explanations. Yet he let on that the matter was very
      clear to him. By some leap of logic I didn't follow, he tied the
      dream to the caller's childhood on his grandfather' s farm. Forget
      about the caller's you-are-there descriptions of another time and
      place. To the expert it was all just a subconscious expression of
      his feelings."

      *** I can imagine that you couldn't follow this "leap of logic", HK!
      And subconscious isn't allowed in eckankar! So just forget it, it's
      a big no-no! That's why so many eckists are controlled by their
      subconscious because HK always appeals to that, seemingly without
      knowing it! LOL!

      ### I agree Ingrid, why can't the LEM/Mahanta follow the "leap in
      logic?" Maybe Klemp is in denial of some childhood events that
      occurred back on his parent's farm that he refuses to face! Klemp
      does seem to hang onto anger and dwells in and recreates past events
      to suit his scamming agenda and false image.


      HK: "Other questions were brushed aside with wordy tut-tuts. This
      exchange must have left the dreamer as puzzled as ever, driving him
      on to seek more satisfying answers from some other source."

      *** Well, one must be aware that seeking advice in a radio show
      isn't the best way to get answers to one's questions! I would go to
      see some kind of counselor, specialized on dreams perhaps!

      ### Klemp needs to look into a mirror more often. HK is an expert at
      saying nothing while putting down others. Have Eckists ever read
      his "loser" comments. Do Klemp's words depict a "Loving" master or
      another Jerry Falwell?

      HK: "The greatest favor we can do for ourselves is to say we don't
      know when we don't know."

      *** So HK, you don't know a lot - did you ever say so?!

      ### Well HK did say that he couldn't follow the psychiatrist' s "Leap
      of Logic," however, HK was either Not being honest (unless is is
      that stupid), or he was being sarcastic (negative).

      HK: "Vast are the worlds of ECK. The experiences we can have within
      them are more than there are stars in the heavens. Odds are strong--
      overwhelming- -that you will often run into things you could never
      have imagined."

      *** Yes HK that happens! What counts is our response to those
      unimagined things! Well, Joan couldn't adapt too well to this
      temporary postal clerk, could she! LOL!

      ### Yep, that poor postal clerk! What negativity he had to fend off!
      It's a good thing that 9th Initiate Joan and 14th Initiate Harry
      aren't as powerful as they delude themselves to be! Of course, I'm
      just kidding about that. JK and HK know that it's all a scam. The
      Eckists are the only ones that are deluded!

      HK: "This physical life has plenty of surprises too. IF your
      spiritual unfoldment is on track, you will many times find yourself
      saying about an experience or condition, 'I just don't know.'"

      *** "Normal" humble people say that very often, too! It's because
      life is wonderful and really full of surprises which makes life here
      so great, at least for me! :-)

      ### It's true that sometimes we can't see what is happening or the
      reasons for it because we either don't look hard enough (aren't
      interested), we are being spared the pain of knowing the outcome
      before events play out, because we sometimes just need to learn by
      repetition, and we see and experience things according to what we
      need (for spiritual growth) and can handle.

      HK: "BUT there are also many things you will know. And it's because
      the Mahanta will show you." [My caps]

      *** No, thanks - no need of a mahanta! :-)

      ### Notice that Klemp is still using BUT and IF in his articles to
      Eckists when he stated in the 12/2005 H.I. Letter Not to or avoid
      using these words with other Eckists. Eckists shouldn't trust that
      Klemp is truthful about anything he says!

      [Second dream comments]

      HK: "For example, what do you think the dream authority would have
      made of this dream reported by someone we will call Belle? In the
      dream state she was visiting friends, sitting in a large,
      overstuffed chair. They had a huge pet lizard colored like a Gila
      monster, a large, poisonous reptile found in Arizona, where she was
      born and briefly lived later."

      ### What makes Klemp an authority? He was initiated by a Thief who
      was also a Black Magician (Gross) who was in turn initiated by the
      Eck Board of Trustees and Officers on Gail's Twitchell's behalf.
      And, the whole Eckankar scam was created by a Liar - Paul Twitchell.
      And, Rebazar was created by Twit so it isn't R.T. who "Fills-in" as
      needed either! This is just more myth. Ask Doug Marman!

      HK: "However, Belle found this pet lizard loving and sweet. She was
      not afraid of it. It crawled over her shoulder, down her arm, and
      into her lap. Then it crept up her front and licked her face. The
      alarm clock rang. Since it was an odd dream, she made a note
      of it in her dream journal."

      ### Perhaps this has more to do with Belle overcoming fear!

      HK: "What do you think the dream expert's analysis would have
      sounded like?"

      ### I guess we're about to hear what the other "expert" (HK) is
      about to say. However, you know what they say about opinions don't
      you? They are like ass holes - everyone has one!

      HK: "Well, he never would get a chance to air it, because at
      breakfast that very morning, the Mahanta, the Inner Master, gave
      Belle its meaning. And it rang so true."

      ### I'm curious as to why HK listens to this Radio Show before he
      goes to sleep. Why does the so-called LEM/Mahanta do this? Is this
      the only way he is able to dream? Sad state of affairs for Eckists!

      HK: "She was at the table eating breakfast, reading the latest issue
      of Arizona Highways. Her attention was captured by a photo of a Gila
      monster. Alongside it was an article on how medical scientists had
      discovered that its saliva contained a substance to help balance
      insulin levels in type 2 diabetes. There is also a new medication
      on the market made of a synthesized version of this substance."

      ### I'll bet that this magazine cover was seen by her prior to her
      dream and that her unconscious mind dreamed about it. Maybe it did
      have to do with her sugar intake or Not! Like I previously stated,
      maybe the dream had more to do with her facing hers fears. Or, Klemp
      is just flexing his knowledge and Who's Who intellect! LOL!

      HK: "This was a health warning from the Master. Belle is not a
      diabetic, BUT for a full week, she had been craving sweet things.
      The warning said, 'You're taking in too much sugar." So she said
      good-bye to the ice cream and cookies." [My caps]

      *** Well I'm sure she would have thought about this without the
      mahanta as well because her own Higher Self, which HK tries to
      invade and take over, would have guided her there! And much better
      than HK, the mahanta, the intruder, ever could!

      ### Very true! Klemp is very good at putting words and opinions in
      the mouth of others. This person (Soul) will figure it out without
      being misdirected by a pseudo expert and master.

      HK: "Here, then, you've met two very differnt dreamers, with two
      very different dream advisers. The Mahanta's advice is worlds beyond
      that of this other self-described expert. So very, very far beyond
      his.

      *** The master of the universe is the greatest expert of course! And
      why can't he speak through the radio show host for example? There's
      something called golden tongued wisdom in eckankar, and the eck
      should be able to speak through anyone, not only HK!

      ### Klemp makes it sound like he is the only "expert" who knows
      anything about past lives. LOL! Many thousands of people outside of
      Eckankar know much more about this topic than Klemp claims to know
      or will ever know! And, Klemp's very nasty, once again, when he
      attempts to belittle this psychiatrist by calling him a "self-
      described expert!" What does Klemp think he is? LOL! Again, I really
      believe that Klemp is still holding onto anger from his
      incarceration in a Mental Institution. IMO- HK is transferring this
      unresolved anger to all psychiatrists and other mental health
      practitioners.

      HK: "Look back sometime and see how far you've come in ECK. And it's
      all because of your love for the Master."

      *** Yeah look back on how much money you have already spent to this
      silly organization to have the protection of the so-called master!
      This protection isn't worth a dime! Just rely on you own inner and
      Higher Self who doesn't need your money to make a good living out of
      it, on your expense!

      ### True, Ingrid, money and time was wasted on a scam that created
      more and more distortions of the real Truth we were seeking. The
      harm in Eckankar is that the seeker must adopt delusion or become
      more delusional in order to fit-in and have Eckie "experiences. "
      Eckankar encourages dependency and attachment to a LEM/Mahanta and
      increases one's vanity via higher initiations. Eckists, does this
      sound like it could be another Kal trap like other religions - nah!
      That's just your imagination or is it?

      Prometheus




      Do you Yahoo!?
      Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, On page 2 of the 09/2006 The Mystic World of Eckankar is a picture of Eckists sitting outside on the patio at the Temple of Eck and looking toward
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 17 9:40 AM
        Hello All,
        On page 2 of the 09/2006 "The Mystic World of Eckankar" is a picture
        of Eckists sitting outside on the patio at the Temple of Eck and
        looking toward the Chapel while on a visit/tour during the 2006
        Springtime Seminar.

        Directly under this picture is a "Spiritual Tip" titled Holy Ground.
        The thing is that the quote (taken from the Mahanta Transcripts,
        Book 16) contradicts the view that the Eck Temple, Chapel, ESC, is
        Holy Ground! Therefore, why is it necessary for Eckists to make a
        pilgrimage to Chanhassen, MN?

        The quote points out that wherever the individual Soul
        walks is Holy Ground and that everything is between God and Soul.
        There is no need for a Mahanta or for Eck Masters. "Soul is the
        center of the universe..." However, Klemp does use a "BUT" and
        an "IF" which makes me wonder if he is being truthful.

        HK: "BUT wherever you are is holy IF you recognize at any given
        moment that you are in the precence of God."

        Of course, another problem we have is with the use of the
        word "God." Every true Eckist knows that "God" is really the Kal and
        is Not the same as SUGMAD. This is just "common language" used to
        make the public feel comfortable, as well as, to trick them
        (temporarily) until they become more trusting (open) and are able to
        handle "higher truths" via the Mahanta's guidance. LOL!

        Klemp states that: "Sometimes we get things backward: we feel that
        we have to go to a holy place and only there are we in the presence
        of God. Sometimes it's a holy mountain, or a holy building."

        So, you see - it's very interesting that this is stated directly
        under the picture of the Eck Chapel, Temple patio, and the "Holy"
        grounds. Perhaps this is Golden-Tongued Wisdom for all Eckists and a
        clue for them to spend their hard earned money elsewhere instead of
        traveling to Minneapolis for pilgrimages to the Temple and the "Holy
        Grounds" of Chanhassen.

        Prometheus



        mishmisha wrote:

        Klemp is a delusional pompous ass and those who think what he says
        is sensible and to be believed are also delusional, but they
        probably are not pompous--rather just needy in that they let a nut
        like HK to think for them and dictate what to do and when! : )

        Mish


        "Oh, You've Come So Far!" by Harold Klemp


        Liz: I have been steaming about this latest scheme by Klemp! Of
        course when the Mahanta says YOU HAVE COME SO FAR, these poor
        delusional eckist will sit in agreement. The thing is, we all have
        come so far... every single person has struggles, hardships,
        illnesses, ease, freedom, good health and awareness etc, not just
        Klemp and his chosen ones. Therefore I say, we all have come so far!
        And I will go as far as to say, "I have gone FURTHER without Klemp"
        the Mythical God Man of the entire universe!

        ********************************************************************
        Paradox by Jed McKenna

        You will never achieve spiritual enlightenment. The you that you
        think of as you is not you. The you that thinks of you as you is not
        you. There is no you, so who wishes to become enlightened?

        Who is not enlightened? Who will become enlightened? Who will be
        enlightened?

        Enlightenment is your destiny----more certain than sunrise. You
        cannot fail to achieve enlightenment. Were you told otherwise?
        Irresistible forces compel you. The universe insists. It is not
        within your power to fail.

        There is no path to enlightenment: It lies in all directions at all
        times. On the journey to enlightenment, you create and destroy your
        own path with every step.

        No one can follow another's path. No one can step off the path. No
        one can lead another. No one can turn back. No one can stop.

        Enlightenment is closer than your skin, more immediate than your
        next breath, and forever beyond your reach.

        It need not be sought because it cannot be found. It cannot be found
        because it cannot be lost. It cannot be lost because it is not other
        than that which seeks.

        The paradox is that there is no paradox. Is that not the damnedest
        thing?
      • mishmisha9
        Hi, All! Here s a thought about Prometheus s observation in the recent Mystic World--is it necessary for eckists to make a pilgrimage to Chanhassen? Perhaps,
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 19 1:22 PM
          Hi, All!

          Here's a thought about Prometheus's observation in the recent Mystic
          World--is it necessary for eckists to make a pilgrimage to
          Chanhassen? Perhaps, Harold is subtly suggesting that it is not
          necessary to make this travel there. Maybe, Harold is thinking if
          they don't come in droves, he can quit getting up on stage and stop
          giving those silly in-person talks. After all, he is not that well
          physically and it would take yet another load off of his extremely
          busy days! LOL!

          We were discussing a while back about the possibility of Joan
          becoming a co-L.E.M. so that she can take on some of these duties
          for Harold and he could just function on the "inner" as the mahanta.
          But now they might be re-thinking--what, the heck, no need to
          continue the talks. If they (the chelas) don't come, Harold won't
          have to sit up there on stage--and no need to make Joan co-L.E.M.
          After all, the mahanta doesn't want to be second guessed, does
          he? : )

          As to the money not being spent? Why certainly the money chelas save
          on travel and hotel expenses, etc., they can donate more freely and
          directly to the Temple, and also spend more of their money on vahana
          work and buying eck publications. It looks like a winning scheme
          that might be in the works!

          Meanwhile, what will Harold being doing on Oct. 22 each year? He can
          do a video address while basking somewhere on a nice sunny warm
          vacation retreat. Sounds like the perfect life to me! LOL!

          Mish

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

          Hello All,
          On page 2 of the 09/2006 "The Mystic World of Eckankar" is a picture
          of Eckists sitting outside on the patio at the Temple of Eck and
          looking toward the Chapel while on a visit/tour during the 2006
          Springtime Seminar.

          Directly under this picture is a "Spiritual Tip" titled Holy Ground.
          The thing is that the quote (taken from the Mahanta Transcripts,
          Book 16) contradicts the view that the Eck Temple, Chapel, ESC, is
          Holy Ground! Therefore, why is it necessary for Eckists to make a
          pilgrimage to Chanhassen, MN?

          The quote points out that wherever the individual Soul
          walks is Holy Ground and that everything is between God and Soul.
          There is no need for a Mahanta or for Eck Masters. "Soul is the
          center of the universe..." However, Klemp does use a "BUT" and
          an "IF" which makes me wonder if he is being truthful.

          HK: "BUT wherever you are is holy IF you recognize at any given
          moment that you are in the precence of God."

          Of course, another problem we have is with the use of the
          word "God." Every true Eckist knows that "God" is really the Kal and
          is Not the same as SUGMAD. This is just "common language" used to
          make the public feel comfortable, as well as, to trick them
          (temporarily) until they become more trusting (open) and are able to
          handle "higher truths" via the Mahanta's guidance. LOL!

          Klemp states that: "Sometimes we get things backward: we feel that
          we have to go to a holy place and only there are we in the presence
          of God. Sometimes it's a holy mountain, or a holy building."

          So, you see - it's very interesting that this is stated directly
          under the picture of the Eck Chapel, Temple patio, and the "Holy"
          grounds. Perhaps this is Golden-Tongued Wisdom for all Eckists and a
          clue for them to spend their hard earned money elsewhere instead of
          traveling to Minneapolis for pilgrimages to the Temple and the "Holy
          Grounds" of Chanhassen.

          Prometheus
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, I just thought I d bring this current article back to the front page for anyone (especially Eckists) to read this weekend. I ll be posting Klemp s
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 19 8:05 PM
            Hello All,
            I just thought I'd bring this current article back to the front page
            for anyone (especially Eckists) to read this weekend. I'll be
            posting Klemp's 09/2006 Wisdom Notes soon. I'll look forward to
            reading comments on HK's distorted 20/20 hindsight view of history.

            ********************************************************************

            Hi Ingrid and All,
            I'll add my comments to Klemp's "expert" opinions on the dreams
            described in his article. Really though, Klemp's opinions are no
            better than anyone's, especially, that of the actual dreamer! And,
            these insights and opinions may, in many cases, have more to do
            with "us" than the original dreamer. Spirit works in mysterious ways
            and Klemp is usually oblivious to this, as well as, his ever growing
            Karmic debt!


            "Oh, You've Come So Far!" by Harold Klemp

            HK: "The host of a call-in radio program calls himself an expert on
            dreams. He is a psychiatrist. Callers' questions about a strange
            or haunting dream are grain for his mill. Most dreams are easy fixes
            for him. They express some unconscious wish or feeling of the
            dreamer."

            [Me]
            ### Actually, the dreams of Eckists that are sent via Initiate
            Reports, etc. are also "grain" for Klemp's "mill" and are "easy
            fixes" for HK too. Klemp even uses them to "write" book upon book!
            How proud these Eckists are that get their dreams printed
            (mentioned)! However, this is just more vanity accruing for these
            proud Eckists and their wealthy puffed-up "International Who's Who
            of Intellectuals Ninth Edition" Mahanta! LOL!

            [Ingrid]
            *** Well, most of the dreams *are* that, are they not?!

            ### Yes, many dreams do express "unconscious wishes or feelings."
            However, I also see Klemp putting down the talk show host for being
            a psychiatrist. Perhaps HK still has some unresolved anger of that
            1970 visit he had when he was locked up in a Mental Instituition!
            Remember, Klemp claims he had learned "to play the game" in order to
            be released after three weeks!

            HK: "For me, the most interesting part of the program is the
            questions. The host's answers often hit a wall, though, or dribble
            off into a self-satisfying string of mumbo jumbo. The show
            conveniently airs before bedtime. The few times I braved a segment
            of it, it put me in a mood to sleep."

            *** HK can't withstand the temptation to put others down, can he? Is
            it True, Necessary, Kind and Loving?!

            ### Klemp's comments of this talk show host are getting rather nasty
            and personal it seems (more flash-backs). This reminds me of his
            nasty comments in the 09/2003 H.I. Letter towards that Third
            Temporary Postal Clerk (Fill-in) when H.K. defended Joan for her
            violating the Law of Economy (Not showing her I.D. before the clerk
            looked for her package), having too much pride of her position at
            the ESC, and for her impatience.

            HK: "Recently, a caller told of a dream that baffled this dream
            expert. The expert, an authority, would not--could not--admit that
            it mystified him too, that it was beyond his area of expertise. Most
            of you would have immediately known this dream for what it was. It
            was a vivid past-life experience."

            *** How does HK know that it mystified the host of the show?! So HK,
            the expert on all dreams, knows immediately that it was a vivid past-
            life experience. Well, I think this is known among dream experts as
            well! "Normal" human beings do believe in reincarnation, too!

            ### Doesn't Klemp also claim to be an "expert" and an "authority"
            and much much more! How arrogant! Klemp is too clueless to
            be "mystified" of anything he's a know-it-all in his (and Eckists')
            own delusional mind(s)!

            HK: "This dream had recurred many times over the last Twenty Years
            and was notable in that it always replayed battle scenes of the
            American Civil War of the 1860s. And the dreamer always floated
            above them. He could describe the uniforms, the cannons, the horses
            and their riders, the weather, the soldiers' guns, the officers'
            swords, and the like. He saw the wounded and the dead. And he could
            even smell the smoke of cannon fire." [My caps]

            *** Well, there it is again - HK's favorite topic - wars! It always
            comes down to that it seems to me! He seems to love it! :-))

            ### Yes, and HK never takes a position or to comment how futile it
            all is, or why can't we all just get along, or the "whys" of why we
            can't! This would be a good time to go more indepth and present the
            higher truths that Soul is seeking. Klemp is message is boring and
            redundant and never benefits the advanced Soul. And, aren't Eckists
            supposed to be "advanced" Souls? Where's the Spiritual Meat?!

            HK: "Evidently, dreams of past lives are not in the expert's
            repertoire of explanations. Yet he let on that the matter was very
            clear to him. By some leap of logic I didn't follow, he tied the
            dream to the caller's childhood on his grandfather's farm. Forget
            about the caller's you-are-there descriptions of another time and
            place. To the expert it was all just a subconscious expression of
            his feelings."

            *** I can imagine that you couldn't follow this "leap of logic", HK!
            And subconscious isn't allowed in eckankar! So just forget it, it's
            a big no-no! That's why so many eckists are controlled by their
            subconscious because HK always appeals to that, seemingly without
            knowing it! LOL!

            ### I agree Ingrid, why can't the LEM/Mahanta follow the "leap in
            logic?" Maybe Klemp is in denial of some childhood events that
            occurred back on his parent's farm that he refuses to face! Klemp
            does seem to hang onto anger and dwells in and recreates past events
            to suit his scamming agenda and false image.


            HK: "Other questions were brushed aside with wordy tut-tuts. This
            exchange must have left the dreamer as puzzled as ever, driving him
            on to seek more satisfying answers from some other source."

            *** Well, one must be aware that seeking advice in a radio show
            isn't the best way to get answers to one's questions! I would go to
            see some kind of counselor, specialized on dreams perhaps!

            ### Klemp needs to look into a mirror more often. HK is an expert at
            saying nothing while putting down others. Have Eckists ever read
            his "loser" comments. Do Klemp's words depict a "Loving" master or
            another Jerry Falwell?

            HK: "The greatest favor we can do for ourselves is to say we don't
            know when we don't know."

            *** So HK, you don't know a lot - did you ever say so?!

            ### Well HK did say that he couldn't follow the psychiatrist's "Leap
            of Logic," however, HK was either Not being honest (unless is is
            that stupid), or he was being sarcastic (negative).

            HK: "Vast are the worlds of ECK. The experiences we can have within
            them are more than there are stars in the heavens. Odds are strong--
            overwhelming--that you will often run into things you could never
            have imagined."

            *** Yes HK that happens! What counts is our response to those
            unimagined things! Well, Joan couldn't adapt too well to this
            temporary postal clerk, could she! LOL!

            ### Yep, that poor postal clerk! What negativity he had to fend off!
            It's a good thing that 9th Initiate Joan and 14th Initiate Harry
            aren't as powerful as they delude themselves to be! Of course, I'm
            just kidding about that. JK and HK know that it's all a scam. The
            Eckists are the only ones that are deluded!

            HK: "This physical life has plenty of surprises too. IF your
            spiritual unfoldment is on track, you will many times find yourself
            saying about an experience or condition, 'I just don't know.'"

            *** "Normal" humble people say that very often, too! It's because
            life is wonderful and really full of surprises which makes life here
            so great, at least for me! :-)

            ### It's true that sometimes we can't see what is happening or the
            reasons for it because we either don't look hard enough (aren't
            interested), we are being spared the pain of knowing the outcome
            before events play out, because we sometimes just need to learn by
            repetition, and we see and experience things according to what we
            need (for spiritual growth) and can handle.

            HK: "BUT there are also many things you will know. And it's because
            the Mahanta will show you." [My caps]

            *** No, thanks - no need of a mahanta! :-)

            ### Notice that Klemp is still using BUT and IF in his articles to
            Eckists when he stated in the 12/2005 H.I. Letter Not to or avoid
            using these words with other Eckists. Eckists shouldn't trust that
            Klemp is truthful about anything he says!

            [Second dream comments]

            HK: "For example, what do you think the dream authority would have
            made of this dream reported by someone we will call Belle? In the
            dream state she was visiting friends, sitting in a large,
            overstuffed chair. They had a huge pet lizard colored like a Gila
            monster, a large, poisonous reptile found in Arizona, where she was
            born and briefly lived later."

            ### What makes Klemp an authority? He was initiated by a Thief who
            was also a Black Magician (Gross) who was in turn initiated by the
            Eck Board of Trustees and Officers on Gail's Twitchell's behalf.
            And, the whole Eckankar scam was created by a Liar - Paul Twitchell.
            And, Rebazar was created by Twit so it isn't R.T. who "Fills-in" as
            needed either! This is just more myth. Ask Doug Marman!

            HK: "However, Belle found this pet lizard loving and sweet. She was
            not afraid of it. It crawled over her shoulder, down her arm, and
            into her lap. Then it crept up her front and licked her face. The
            alarm clock rang. Since it was an odd dream, she made a note
            of it in her dream journal."

            ### Perhaps this has more to do with Belle overcoming fear!

            HK: "What do you think the dream expert's analysis would have
            sounded like?"

            ### I guess we're about to hear what the other "expert" (HK) is
            about to say. However, you know what they say about opinions don't
            you? They are like ass holes - everyone has one!

            HK: "Well, he never would get a chance to air it, because at
            breakfast that very morning, the Mahanta, the Inner Master, gave
            Belle its meaning. And it rang so true."

            ### I'm curious as to why HK listens to this Radio Show before he
            goes to sleep. Why does the so-called LEM/Mahanta do this? Is this
            the only way he is able to dream? Sad state of affairs for Eckists!

            HK: "She was at the table eating breakfast, reading the latest issue
            of Arizona Highways. Her attention was captured by a photo of a Gila
            monster. Alongside it was an article on how medical scientists had
            discovered that its saliva contained a substance to help balance
            insulin levels in type 2 diabetes. There is also a new medication
            on the market made of a synthesized version of this substance."

            ### I'll bet that this magazine cover was seen by her prior to her
            dream and that her unconscious mind dreamed about it. Maybe it did
            have to do with her sugar intake or Not! Like I previously stated,
            maybe the dream had more to do with her facing hers fears. Or, Klemp
            is just flexing his knowledge and Who's Who intellect! LOL!

            HK: "This was a health warning from the Master. Belle is not a
            diabetic, BUT for a full week, she had been craving sweet things.
            The warning said, 'You're taking in too much sugar." So she said
            good-bye to the ice cream and cookies." [My caps]

            *** Well I'm sure she would have thought about this without the
            mahanta as well because her own Higher Self, which HK tries to
            invade and take over, would have guided her there! And much better
            than HK, the mahanta, the intruder, ever could!

            ### Very true! Klemp is very good at putting words and opinions in
            the mouth of others. This person (Soul) will figure it out without
            being misdirected by a pseudo expert and master.

            HK: "Here, then, you've met two very differnt dreamers, with two
            very different dream advisers. The Mahanta's advice is worlds beyond
            that of this other self-described expert. So very, very far beyond
            his.

            *** The master of the universe is the greatest expert of course! And
            why can't he speak through the radio show host for example? There's
            something called golden tongued wisdom in eckankar, and the eck
            should be able to speak through anyone, not only HK!

            ### Klemp makes it sound like he is the only "expert" who knows
            anything about past lives. LOL! Many thousands of people outside of
            Eckankar know much more about this topic than Klemp claims to know
            or will ever know! And, Klemp's very nasty, once again, when he
            attempts to belittle this psychiatrist by calling him a "self-
            described expert!" What does Klemp think he is? LOL! Again, I really
            believe that Klemp is still holding onto anger from his
            incarceration in a Mental Institution. IMO- HK is transferring this
            unresolved anger to all psychiatrists and other mental health
            practitioners.

            HK: "Look back sometime and see how far you've come in ECK. And it's
            all because of your love for the Master."

            *** Yeah look back on how much money you have already spent to this
            silly organization to have the protection of the so-called master!
            This protection isn't worth a dime! Just rely on you own inner and
            Higher Self who doesn't need your money to make a good living out of
            it, on your expense!

            ### True, Ingrid, money and time was wasted on a scam that created
            more and more distortions of the real Truth we were seeking. The
            harm in Eckankar is that the seeker must adopt delusion or become
            more delusional in order to fit-in and have Eckie "experiences."
            Eckankar encourages dependency and attachment to a LEM/Mahanta and
            increases one's vanity via higher initiations. Eckists, does this
            sound like it could be another Kal trap like other religions - nah!
            That's just your imagination or is it?

            Prometheus
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