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On Tunnel Vision & Contradictory Thinking of Eckists

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, I find this topic to be interesting for a numer of reasons. It is also interesting to revisit the Eckankar Helen Frye Sedona scam with Darwin
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 13, 2006
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      Hello All,

      I find this topic to be interesting for a numer of reasons. It is
      also interesting to revisit the Eckankar Helen Frye Sedona scam with
      Darwin Gross's (972nd LEM/Mahanta) involvement. Afterall, during
      this period of scamming, sex, and alcohol the "Black Magician" D.G.
      was handing out Higher Initiations to Klemp and dozens of other
      current 7th, 6th, and 9th Initiates! Klemp got evry Higher
      Initiation from Gross! Therefore, I can see why there is a
      correlation between the two different 9/11 events since Klemp is the
      apprentice of a Black Magician (Klemp's words) and a fallen Master.
      Gross is likened to a fallen angel or Darth Vader, and isn't the Kal
      actually Satan! Afterall, Klemp did meet with Gross, twice, in a
      Soundproof Darkroom to plan the take over of Eckankar. Was this too
      just a coincidence or not? : )

      Yes, I can see why some Eckists are very confused in seeing these
      correlations and coincidences and not knowing what to think. Their
      Mahanta seems to be helpless and unwilling to help change events for
      the better. On one hand the whole purpose of Eckankar (the Mahanta's
      Mission) seems to be to spread the message of Eck which amounts to
      teaching people to HU (pray) and saving them from the lower worlds
      (hell) via the Mahanta (the savior). On another hand this requires
      an annual paid membership, the purchase of HU tapes or CDs and other
      published materials, and years of missionary work and trainings,
      etc. within the hierarchy for promotion to higher ranks.

      Anyway, these official unofficial Eckankar Yahoo Group sites "HU-
      Chat" and "Conversations With Twitchell" are a real hoot! Thanks
      again for the information.

      Mish: To expand a bit on my previous post that follows, I should
      have mentioned that the eckist who is attempting to link Harold
      Klemp to the events of the world, particularly the World Trade
      Center attack, titled his post "Historical perspective." This is
      interesting, because on another eck chat discussion site, this very
      same eckist proclaimed he wasn't interested in "past history beyond
      its relevance to my (his) personal experience." This remark was in
      reply to another poster's comments about the eckankar connection in
      the Sedona Property scandal. You can read about "Broken Promises and
      Opportunists, the Ownership Transition History of Jack and Helen
      Frye's TWA Get-A-Way: Smoke Trail Ranch . . . at:

      http://www.sedonalegendhelenfrye.com/page9.html

      Mish: When confronted with this bit of eckankar history and the
      involvement of the eck leadership (L.E.M.) in this money scandal
      (remember, most of us realize it all amounts to $$$$), this eckist
      had this to say about history:

      [Rev. P.A.]: "I am not interested in legends at all nor past history
      beyond its relevance to my personal experience. I am only interested
      in what I can do to pursue deeper knowledge and experience of life.
      The Mahanta and the Spiritual Exercises of Eck are one way to
      explore this. Take it or leave it. If anything is true, it is that
      each moment brings new facts and truths to light. What happened even
      yesterday is not as important as what is happening right now.
      Debating and dredging up historical minutia is like analyzing a puff
      of smoke hoping to relive the days when the thing that burned was
      still intact."

      Mish: It seems that this eckist contradicts himself quite a bit in
      these two posts, and it displays the prevalent delusional thinking
      and tunnel vision that become a part of eckists' confused thinking
      and behavior as they continue to hold on to the fake belief system
      and cultish scam called eckankar. Notice there is so much confusion
      and lack of understanding within the eck cult! So, these eckists
      continue to follow on blind faith and contradictory thinking.
      They're so desparate and willing to separate the "untruths" they
      want to believe, twisting them into some kind of "delusional truth"
      in order to validate the eckankar belief system, from the
      real "truths" of actual facts that they cannot handle in their
      confused and tunnel visioned minds. Pity, really!

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
      <mishmisha9@> wrote:

      Hi, All!
      I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
      is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
      Here's his post:

      [Rev. P.A.]: "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I
      was watching the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning
      it to my local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending.
      Toward the end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost
      missed and might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the
      tape to see it again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground
      for the Temple--September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as
      10:30 am (which would be Central Time Daylight Time in
      Minnesota).This is exactly 12 years before the events surrounding
      the attack on the twin towers of the World Trade Center took place.
      The first plane hit at 8:46 am and the second at 9:02 am Eastern
      daylight Time (which is 1 hour later than Central Time). The first
      tower fell at 10:05 am and the second at 10:28 am. (Source:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)Exactly
      twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with his
      shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier and
      the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.I'm just reporting the
      facts. I can't help but entertain various interpretations, but will
      keep them to myself for now as they might interfere with the
      significance that any of you might see."

      Mish: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
      Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
      a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
      earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
      label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
      thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
      Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
      Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
      with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
      there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
      with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
      become co-L.E.M. : )

      Mish: Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
      through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
      by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
      people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
      their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
      shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
      delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

      Mish: Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple
      tour guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
      powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
      understand it that well, myself. . . . "

      Mish: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
      ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
      worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
      Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
      mahanta! LOL!

      Me: Yes, Klemp's house of cards is falling for those Eckists with
      eyes to see and ears to hear the Truth. The real Truth does not come
      from others who place themselves above others as pseudo experts or
      masters as they distort truth and facts due to their own ignorance,
      ego, and misunderstandings. They prejudge people and events to form
      opinions that they have become attached to because it fits their
      misdirected agendas. However, they will never truly "See" because
      they think too highly of their own little selves, and this also
      makes them too proud to admit this truth and to change. They are
      comfortable and secure with what and who they think they are and
      with playing games with those they can (or think they can)
      manipulate and control in the delusional world they (and others)
      have created by the their own lower self (being fooled) and
      disguising itself through its own delusions of grandeur. For many
      Souls its a neverending cycle of distractions, lessons, and tests
      and yet sometimes the so called "distractions" have/are lessons that
      make the tests much easier.

      Prometheus
    • Ed Kusi
      Hi Mish and All, This is how Eckists can stretch the imagination and clutch at straws to make their beloved mahanta appear more than he really is. A classic
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 14, 2006
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        Hi Mish and All,
        This is how Eckists can stretch the imagination and clutch at straws to make their beloved mahanta appear more than he really is. A classic example of the pathetic extent to which some will go to have themselves an authority spiritual figure.

        mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
        Hi, All!

        I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
        is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization. "
        Here's his post:

        "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
        the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
        local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
        end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
        might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
        again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
        September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
        would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
        years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
        the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
        and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
        later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
        second at 10:28 am. (Source:
        http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ September_ 11,_2001 attacks)Exactly
        twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with his
        shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier and
        the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.

        I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
        interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
        interfere with the significance that any of you might see."

        ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
        Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
        a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
        earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
        label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
        thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
        Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
        Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
        with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
        there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
        with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
        become co-L.E.M. : )

        Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
        through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
        by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
        people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
        their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
        shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
        delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

        Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
        guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
        powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
        understand it that well, myself. . . . "

        ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
        ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
        worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
        Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
        mahanta! LOL!

        Mish



        Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

      • Freefrom
        Good point! Not only are there those who seem to want the prison of AUTHORITY, there are also enough who get a rush out of being a BOGUS AUTHORITY. (for
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 14, 2006
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          Good point! Not only are there those who seem to want the prison of
          AUTHORITY, there are also enough who get a rush out of being a BOGUS
          AUTHORITY. (for example, klemp) Such is the life of DELUSION. ; )

          Freefrom

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Ed Kusi
          <pretujari@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Mish and All,
          > This is how Eckists can stretch the imagination and clutch at
          straws to make their beloved mahanta appear more than he really is. A
          classic example of the pathetic extent to which some will go to have
          themselves an authority spiritual figure.
          >
          > mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
          > Hi, All!
          >
          > I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
          > is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
          > Here's his post:
          >
          > "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
          > the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
          > local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
          > end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
          > might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
          > again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
          > September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
          > would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
          > years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
          > the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
          > and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
          > later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
          > second at 10:28 am. (Source:
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)Exactly
          > twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with his
          > shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier and
          > the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.
          >
          > I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
          > interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
          > interfere with the significance that any of you might see."
          >
          > ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
          > Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
          > a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
          > earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
          > label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
          > thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
          > Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
          > Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
          > with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
          > there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
          > with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
          > become co-L.E.M. : )
          >
          > Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
          > through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
          > by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
          > people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
          > their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
          > shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
          > delusion building on delusion IMO! : )
          >
          > Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
          > guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
          > powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
          > understand it that well, myself. . . . "
          >
          > ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
          > ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
          > worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
          > Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
          > mahanta! LOL!
          >
          > Mish
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hi All, Yes, it seems that Klemp is at least a Kal terrorist as he spreads lies and untruths. One has to wonder why many Eckists discount the Golden-Tongued
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 15, 2006
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            Hi All,
            Yes, it seems that Klemp is at least a Kal terrorist as he spreads
            lies and untruths. One has to wonder why many Eckists discount the
            Golden-Tongued Wisdom and Waking Dreams that point to Klemp's
            deceptions. Why not look at everything that comes one's way? If
            Darwin Gross (972nd LEM/Mahanta) could fall from Grace then why
            couldn't Klemp? And, since Klemp did fall from Grace then what good
            are those Eck Initiations given under his authority! What good were
            those given under Gross's authority! They weren't/aren't worth what
            it cost to print up the pink slips! The Initiations were a scam
            anyway and certainly those coming from agents of the Kal aren't of a
            Positive spiritual value! It's all part of the scam of delusion and
            just one more test for Soul. No religion is of value to the
            independent and free master Soul. To follow another, regardless of
            promises or imagined results, is to lose sight of the true goal for
            this lifetime. Those who can (and are ready) will see and hear and
            understand this.

            Prometheus


            Freefrom eckchains wrote:

            Good point! Not only are there those who seem to want the prison of
            AUTHORITY, there are also enough who get a rush out of being a BOGUS
            AUTHORITY. (for example, klemp) Such is the life of DELUSION. ; )

            Freefrom

            pretujari wrote:

            Hi Mish and All,
            This is how Eckists can stretch the imagination and clutch at straws
            to make their beloved mahanta appear more than he really is. A
            classic example of the pathetic extent to which some will go to have
            themselves an authority spiritual figure.

            mishmisha wrote:
            Hi, All!

            I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
            is) on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome
            realization."

            Here's his post:

            "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
            the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
            local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
            end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
            might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
            again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
            September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
            would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
            years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
            the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
            and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
            later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
            second at 10:28 am. (Source:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

            Exactly twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with
            his shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier
            and the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.

            I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
            interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
            interfere with the significance that any of you might see."

            ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
            Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
            a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
            earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
            label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
            thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
            Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
            Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
            with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
            there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
            with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
            become co-L.E.M. : )

            Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
            through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
            by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
            people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
            their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
            shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
            delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

            Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
            guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
            powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
            understand it that well, myself. . . . "

            ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
            ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
            worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
            Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
            mahanta! LOL!

            Mish
          • prometheus_973
            Well, here s another post that I wanted to bring back to the front page. BTW - all new members or first time visitors to this site really need to read the
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 19, 2006
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              Well, here's another post that I wanted to bring back to the front
              page. BTW - all new members or first time visitors to this site
              really need to read the archives and take a look at the LINKS.

              I noticed that in a recent post on HU-Chat that Peter was talking
              about that former Eck Master... number 972... you know who... the
              one that was betrayed or was booted by number 973 or was HK just
              the third liar and deceiver! LOL!

              Isn't it funny that Eckists are Not supposed to mention Darwin by
              name! Is it bad luck or what? Actually, it is bad luck because if
              one's RESA hears about any Eckist talking about Darwin Gross
              there'll be Hell to pay! Don't count on getting that next pink slip
              if it's your time - you'll be put on hold for about three more
              years. Yea, I know, it's Eck History and all that, but it's just Not
              permitted!

              However, and as I've said before, where did most of those "Eck"
              Initiations come from for all of those 35 year plus H.I.s?! By who's
              authority? Most came from the authority of the 972nd LEM/Mahanta
              and "Black Magician" Darwin Gross (or his secretary BB when DG was
              too busy or out of town) that's where!



              Hi All,
              Yes, it seems that Klemp is at least a Kal terrorist as he spreads
              lies and untruths. One has to wonder why many Eckists discount the
              Golden-Tongued Wisdom and Waking Dreams that point to Klemp's
              deceptions. Why not look at everything that comes one's way? If
              Darwin Gross (972nd LEM/Mahanta) could fall from Grace then why
              couldn't Klemp? And, since Klemp did fall from Grace then what good
              are those Eck Initiations given under his authority! What good were
              those given under Gross's authority! They weren't/aren't worth what
              it cost to print up the pink slips! The Initiations were a scam
              anyway and certainly those coming from agents of the Kal aren't of a
              Positive spiritual value! It's all part of the scam of delusion and
              just one more test for Soul. No religion is of value to the
              independent and free master Soul. To follow another, regardless of
              promises or imagined results, is to lose sight of the true goal for
              this lifetime. Those who can (and are ready) will see and hear and
              understand this.

              Prometheus


              Freefrom eckchains wrote:

              Good point! Not only are there those who seem to want the prison of
              AUTHORITY, there are also enough who get a rush out of being a BOGUS
              AUTHORITY. (for example, klemp) Such is the life of DELUSION. ; )

              Freefrom

              pretujari wrote:

              Hi Mish and All,
              This is how Eckists can stretch the imagination and clutch at straws
              to make their beloved mahanta appear more than he really is. A
              classic example of the pathetic extent to which some will go to have
              themselves an authority spiritual figure.

              mishmisha wrote:
              Hi, All!

              I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
              is) on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome
              realization."


              ***[BTW-The Eckist making the 9/11 correlations is Rev. Peter Anton
              and the Eck site is HU-Chat]

              ####################################################################
              Here's his post:

              "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
              the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
              local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
              end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
              might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
              again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
              September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
              would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
              years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
              the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
              and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
              later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
              second at 10:28 am. (Source:
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

              Exactly twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with
              his shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier
              and the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.

              I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
              interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
              interfere with the significance that any of you might see."

              ####################################################################

              ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
              Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
              a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
              earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
              label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
              thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
              Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
              Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
              with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
              there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
              with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
              become co-L.E.M. : )

              Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
              through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
              by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
              people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
              their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
              shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
              delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

              Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
              guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
              powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
              understand it that well, myself. . . . "

              ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
              ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
              worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
              Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
              mahanta! LOL!

              Mish
            • mishmisha9
              Hi, All! I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating attacks on the
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 10, 2006
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                Hi, All!
                I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we
                are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating
                attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001.
                As a further note, I have read some discussions by eckists who
                believe that no eckists perished in these attacks, as they were
                delayed or had changes of plans that kept them away from their jobs
                in the WTC and the Pentagon that day--they believe this is because
                eckists were protected by the mahanta. However, how do eckists
                account for the stories of other non-eckists who also did not go to
                work that day or were late, etc. and they too were spared the
                horrors of the day?? I have friends whose son and daughter-in-law
                would have been in the area, if not in the WTC that fateful day, but
                they had car trouble and were at a dealership looking to buy a new
                car. These are Christians who know nothing about eckankar or the
                mahanta. If no eckists were at all at the WTC or the Pentagon that
                day, I rather think it would be more because no eckists worked at
                those places in 2001! After all, eckists are quite a minority,
                religiously speaking--quite the minority in more ways than one! Just
                a small school of small fish in a very large pond!: )

                Below is the repost in which another eckist saw a connection between
                Harold Klemp (a twelve year cycle) and the terrorist attacks, which
                then asks the question, "Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist?" LOL!

                Hi, All!

                I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
                is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
                Here's his post:

                "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
                the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
                local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
                end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
                might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
                again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
                September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
                would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
                years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
                the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
                and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
                later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
                second at 10:28 am. (Source:
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)Exactly
                twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with his
                shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier and
                the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.

                I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
                interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
                interfere with the significance that any of you might see."

                ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
                Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
                a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
                earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
                label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
                thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
                Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
                Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
                with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
                there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
                with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
                become co-L.E.M. : )

                Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
                through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
                by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
                people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
                their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
                shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
                delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

                Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
                guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
                powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
                understand it that well, myself. . . . "

                ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
                ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
                worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
                Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
                mahanta! LOL!

                Mish
                >
              • prometheus_973
                It seems that Klemp s Connection (as Peter points out) to the Negative Events of 9/11/2001 do connect HK to the Kal! However, while ECKists are supposed to pay
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 10, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  It seems that Klemp's Connection (as Peter points out) to the
                  Negative Events of 9/11/2001 do connect HK to the Kal! However,
                  while ECKists are supposed to pay attention to details they are Not
                  to see Negative connections to their Mahanta. This is the Catch-22
                  rule that Klemp lives by. Of course, the Catch-22 rule was created
                  by the Kal. Klemp, Gross, and Twitchell's Eckankar can't stand up to
                  the Truth. Those Eckists who continue to believe these distortions
                  and close their eyes and minds to Truth are swimming with a small
                  school of small fish in a very large pond.

                  Prometheus

                  mishmisha wrote:

                  Hi, All!
                  I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we
                  are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating
                  attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001.
                  As a further note, I have read some discussions by eckists who
                  believe that no eckists perished in these attacks, as they were
                  delayed or had changes of plans that kept them away from their jobs
                  in the WTC and the Pentagon that day--they believe this is because
                  eckists were protected by the mahanta. However, how do eckists
                  account for the stories of other non-eckists who also did not go to
                  work that day or were late, etc. and they too were spared the
                  horrors of the day?? I have friends whose son and daughter-in-law
                  would have been in the area, if not in the WTC that fateful day, but
                  they had car trouble and were at a dealership looking to buy a new
                  car. These are Christians who know nothing about eckankar or the
                  mahanta. If no eckists were at all at the WTC or the Pentagon that
                  day, I rather think it would be more because no eckists worked at
                  those places in 2001! After all, eckists are quite a minority,
                  religiously speaking--quite the minority in more ways than one! Just
                  a small school of small fish in a very large pond!: )

                  Below is the repost in which another eckist saw a connection between
                  Harold Klemp (a twelve year cycle) and the terrorist attacks, which
                  then asks the question, "Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist?" LOL!

                  Hi, All!
                  I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
                  is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
                  Here's his post:

                  ********************************************************************
                  [Rev. Peter Anton, Eck Chela]
                  "I just came to an Awesome Realization this morning. I was watching
                  the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
                  local Eck Center during a Satsang Class I'm attending. Toward the
                  end of the tape Something Caught My Eye that I Almost Missed and
                  Might Have Regarded Only Casually, BUT I Reversed The Tape to see it
                  again. It was the Date that Sri Harold Broke Ground for the Temple--
                  SEPTEMBER 11, 1989. The narrator stated the Time as 10:30 am (which
                  would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).

                  This is Exactly 12 Years Before the Events Surrounding the Attack on
                  the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center Took Place. The First
                  Plane Hit at 8:46 am and the Second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time
                  (which is 1 hour later than Central Time). The First Tower Fell at
                  10:05 am and the Second at 10:28 am. (Source:
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

                  Exactly Twelve Years After Sri Harold Klemp Pierced the Earth with
                  his Shovel, the Second Plane Had Hit its Tower 28 Minutes Earlier
                  and the First Tower was to Fall 28 minutes Later.

                  I'm Just Reporting the Facts. I can't help but entertain various
                  interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
                  interfere with the significance that any of you might see." [My caps]
                  *********************************************************************

                  ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
                  Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
                  a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
                  earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
                  label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
                  thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
                  Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
                  Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
                  with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
                  there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
                  with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
                  become co-L.E.M. : )

                  Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
                  through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
                  by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
                  people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
                  their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
                  shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
                  delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

                  *********************************************************************
                  Another eckist responded to this [Peter's] post:

                  "Most of the Temple tour guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12
                  are apparently very powerful. Can't say much more than that because
                  I don't really understand it that well, myself. . . . "
                  *********************************************************************

                  ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
                  ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
                  worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
                  Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
                  mahanta! LOL!

                  Mish
                • mishmisha9
                  Hi, All! Today is a day of remembrance of the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon 5 years ago. A lot of people, including eckists, are still trying to make
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 11, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi, All!

                    Today is a day of remembrance of the attacks on the WTC and the
                    Pentagon 5 years ago. A lot of people, including eckists, are still
                    trying to make sense out of this tragic event. The connection that
                    one eckist on HuChat was attempting was to tie the 9/11/01 to Klemp
                    plunging his shovel in the ground on 9/11/89 in Chanhassen, to begin
                    construction of the eck temple. This eckist intricately drew
                    parallels to the two events, linking them up as an important 12 Year
                    Cycle in eckankar--giving it eck significance, and in doing so, he
                    connected the mahanta to the actions of the terrorists who attacked
                    the WTC and the Pentagon. As Prometheus points out eckists are not
                    to see the negative connections to the mahanta, so I guess this
                    eckist is sorely lacking in eck education/etiquette! : ) But maybe
                    he is not alone in this thinking? Attached below are my original
                    post and Prometheus' reply.

                    On an added note, I was reading TIME magazine, the Sept, 11, 2006
                    edition, "What We Lost." Inside, there is an article on the
                    conspiracy myths of 9/11 which might help explain our need to look
                    for links tying in conspiracies to major tragic events--including
                    suggesting that the mahanta might have been part of the terrorist
                    activities. The article by Lev Grossman begins with this
                    header: "Why the 9/11 Conspiracies Won't Go Away . . . Turns out, we
                    need grand theories to make sense of grand events, or the world just
                    seems too random."

                    The article goes on to explain: "There are psychological
                    explanations for why conspiracy theories are so seductive. Academics
                    who study them argue that they meet a basic human need: to have the
                    magnitude of any given effect be balanced by the magnitude of the
                    cause behind it. A world in which tiny causes can have huge
                    consequences feels scary and unreliable. Therefore a grand disaster
                    like Sept. 11 needs a grand conspiracy behind it. 'We tend to
                    associate major events--a President or princess dying--with major
                    causes,' says Patrick Leman, a lecturer in psychology at Royal
                    Holloway University of London, who has conducted studies on
                    conspiracy belief.'If we think big events like a President being
                    assassinated can happen at the hands of a minor individual, that
                    points to the the unpredictability and randomness of life and
                    unsettles us.' In that sense, the idea that there is a malevolent
                    controlling force orchestrating global events is, in a perverse way,
                    comforting."

                    My hunch is that the eckist who was weaving in a 12 Year Cycle in
                    eck to the events of 9/11/01 was simply trying to comfort himself by
                    attempting to validate his belief in the power of his beloved
                    mahanta, but in so doing, he actually turned his mahanta into an
                    agent for the kal. Of course, those of us who view Klemp and his org
                    as a cult, see this as the bigger picture; but of course, we know
                    Klemp has no powers to control others or to orchestrate such worldly
                    events! However, scamming people into believing in a bogus religion
                    is definitely a conspiracy and as such has long range negative
                    effects on those who fall for the scam until they, like us (former
                    eckists) eventually come to recognize their own gulliability in
                    being duped by the eck lies and deceptions. The realization of our
                    gulliability is an awareness that will lead people, including some
                    eckists eventually, to higher consciousness. The ties that
                    unbind and liberate us back to being free thinkers and masters of
                    our fate!

                    Bringing our experiences and what we have gleaned from our "eck"
                    experiences in posts to this site serve the purpose of helping
                    others confused and questioning the eck leadership and org to come
                    to this greater awareness. For me, a strong sense of duty to share
                    my perspectives and experiences guides me to participate on this
                    site. Looking back, it is really funny to see how I fell for the eck
                    scam. I find it amusing as well as enlightening that it could happen
                    to me! : )

                    BTW, welcome Makizor and Victorious Traveler for joining our group!

                    I've attached the earlier posts so one can easily access what was
                    posted previously!

                    Mish

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                    <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

                    It seems that Klemp's Connection (as Peter points out) to the
                    Negative Events of 9/11/2001 do connect HK to the Kal! However,
                    while ECKists are supposed to pay attention to details they are Not
                    to see Negative connections to their Mahanta. This is the Catch-22
                    rule that Klemp lives by. Of course, the Catch-22 rule was created
                    by the Kal. Klemp, Gross, and Twitchell's Eckankar can't stand up to
                    the Truth. Those Eckists who continue to believe these distortions
                    and close their eyes and minds to Truth are swimming with a small
                    school of small fish in a very large pond.

                    Prometheus

                    mishmisha wrote:

                    Hi, All!
                    I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we
                    are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating
                    attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001.
                    As a further note, I have read some discussions by eckists who
                    believe that no eckists perished in these attacks, as they were
                    delayed or had changes of plans that kept them away from their jobs
                    in the WTC and the Pentagon that day--they believe this is because
                    eckists were protected by the mahanta. However, how do eckists
                    account for the stories of other non-eckists who also did not go to
                    work that day or were late, etc. and they too were spared the
                    horrors of the day?? I have friends whose son and daughter-in-law
                    would have been in the area, if not in the WTC that fateful day, but
                    they had car trouble and were at a dealership looking to buy a new
                    car. These are Christians who know nothing about eckankar or the
                    mahanta. If no eckists were at all at the WTC or the Pentagon that
                    day, I rather think it would be more because no eckists worked at
                    those places in 2001! After all, eckists are quite a minority,
                    religiously speaking--quite the minority in more ways than one! Just
                    a small school of small fish in a very large pond!: )

                    Below is the repost in which another eckist saw a connection between
                    Harold Klemp (a twelve year cycle) and the terrorist attacks, which
                    then asks the question, "Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist?" LOL!

                    Hi, All!
                    I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
                    is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
                    Here's his post:

                    ********************************************************************

                    "I just came to an Awesome Realization this morning. I was watching
                    the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
                    local Eck Center during a Satsang Class I'm attending. Toward the
                    end of the tape Something Caught My Eye that I Almost Missed and
                    Might Have Regarded Only Casually, BUT I Reversed The Tape to see it
                    again. It was the Date that Sri Harold Broke Ground for the Temple--
                    SEPTEMBER 11, 1989. The narrator stated the Time as 10:30 am (which
                    would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).

                    This is Exactly 12 Years Before the Events Surrounding the Attack on
                    the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center Took Place. The First
                    Plane Hit at 8:46 am and the Second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time
                    (which is 1 hour later than Central Time). The First Tower Fell at
                    10:05 am and the Second at 10:28 am. (Source:
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

                    Exactly Twelve Years After Sri Harold Klemp Pierced the Earth with
                    his Shovel, the Second Plane Had Hit its Tower 28 Minutes Earlier
                    and the First Tower was to Fall 28 minutes Later.

                    I'm Just Reporting the Facts. I can't help but entertain various
                    interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
                    interfere with the significance that any of you might see." [My caps]

                    *********************************************************************

                    ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
                    Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
                    a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
                    earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
                    label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
                    thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
                    Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
                    Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
                    with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
                    there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
                    with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
                    become co-L.E.M. : )

                    Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
                    through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
                    by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
                    people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
                    their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
                    shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
                    delusion building on delusion IMO! : )


                    *********************************************************************
                    Another eckist responded to this post:

                    "Most of the Temple tour guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12
                    are apparently very powerful. Can't say much more than that because
                    I don't really understand it that well, myself. . . . "

                    *********************************************************************

                    ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
                    ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
                    worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
                    Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
                    mahanta! LOL!

                    Mish
                    >
                  • prometheus_973
                    What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn t he give his protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through Metal Detectors and have
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 14, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                      protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through
                      Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World Wide
                      Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                      This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                      Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!

                      mishmisha wrote:
                      Hi, All!

                      Today is a day of remembrance of the attacks on the WTC and the
                      Pentagon 5 years ago. A lot of people, including eckists, are still
                      trying to make sense out of this tragic event. The connection that
                      one eckist on HuChat was attempting was to tie the 9/11/01 to Klemp
                      plunging his shovel in the ground on 9/11/89 in Chanhassen, to begin
                      construction of the eck temple. This eckist intricately drew
                      parallels to the two events, linking them up as an important 12 Year
                      Cycle in eckankar--giving it eck significance, and in doing so, he
                      connected the mahanta to the actions of the terrorists who attacked
                      the WTC and the Pentagon. As Prometheus points out eckists are not
                      to see the negative connections to the mahanta, so I guess this
                      eckist is sorely lacking in eck education/etiquette! : ) But maybe
                      he is not alone in this thinking? Attached below are my original
                      post and Prometheus' reply.

                      On an added note, I was reading TIME magazine, the Sept, 11, 2006
                      edition, "What We Lost." Inside, there is an article on the
                      conspiracy myths of 9/11 which might help explain our need to look
                      for links tying in conspiracies to major tragic events--including
                      suggesting that the mahanta might have been part of the terrorist
                      activities. The article by Lev Grossman begins with this
                      header: "Why the 9/11 Conspiracies Won't Go Away . . . Turns out, we
                      need grand theories to make sense of grand events, or the world just
                      seems too random."

                      The article goes on to explain: "There are psychological
                      explanations for why conspiracy theories are so seductive. Academics
                      who study them argue that they meet a basic human need: to have the
                      magnitude of any given effect be balanced by the magnitude of the
                      cause behind it. A world in which tiny causes can have huge
                      consequences feels scary and unreliable. Therefore a grand disaster
                      like Sept. 11 needs a grand conspiracy behind it. 'We tend to
                      associate major events--a President or princess dying--with major
                      causes,' says Patrick Leman, a lecturer in psychology at Royal
                      Holloway University of London, who has conducted studies on
                      conspiracy belief.'If we think big events like a President being
                      assassinated can happen at the hands of a minor individual, that
                      points to the the unpredictability and randomness of life and
                      unsettles us.' In that sense, the idea that there is a malevolent
                      controlling force orchestrating global events is, in a perverse way,
                      comforting."

                      My hunch is that the eckist who was weaving in a 12 Year Cycle in
                      eck to the events of 9/11/01 was simply trying to comfort himself by
                      attempting to validate his belief in the power of his beloved
                      mahanta, but in so doing, he actually turned his mahanta into an
                      agent for the kal. Of course, those of us who view Klemp and his org
                      as a cult, see this as the bigger picture; but of course, we know
                      Klemp has no powers to control others or to orchestrate such worldly
                      events! However, scamming people into believing in a bogus religion
                      is definitely a conspiracy and as such has long range negative
                      effects on those who fall for the scam until they, like us (former
                      eckists) eventually come to recognize their own gulliability in
                      being duped by the eck lies and deceptions. The realization of our
                      gulliability is an awareness that will lead people, including some
                      eckists eventually, to higher consciousness. The ties that
                      unbind and liberate us back to being free thinkers and masters of
                      our fate!

                      Bringing our experiences and what we have gleaned from our "eck"
                      experiences in posts to this site serve the purpose of helping
                      others confused and questioning the eck leadership and org to come
                      to this greater awareness. For me, a strong sense of duty to share
                      my perspectives and experiences guides me to participate on this
                      site. Looking back, it is really funny to see how I fell for the eck
                      scam. I find it amusing as well as enlightening that it could happen
                      to me! : )

                      BTW, welcome Makizor and Victorious Traveler for joining our group!

                      I've attached the earlier posts so one can easily access what was
                      posted previously!

                      Mish

                      Prometheus wrote:

                      It seems that Klemp's Connection (as Peter points out) to the
                      Negative Events of 9/11/2001 do connect HK to the Kal! However,
                      while ECKists are supposed to pay attention to details they are Not
                      to see Negative connections to their Mahanta. This is the Catch-22
                      rule that Klemp lives by. Of course, the Catch-22 rule was created
                      by the Kal. Klemp, Gross, and Twitchell's Eckankar can't stand up to
                      the Truth. Those Eckists who continue to believe these distortions
                      and close their eyes and minds to Truth are only fooling themselves.

                      Prometheus

                      mishmisha wrote:

                      Hi, All!
                      I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we
                      are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating
                      attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001.
                      As a further note, I have read some discussions by eckists who
                      believe that no eckists perished in these attacks, as they were
                      delayed or had changes of plans that kept them away from their jobs
                      in the WTC and the Pentagon that day--they believe this is because
                      eckists were protected by the mahanta. However, how do eckists
                      account for the stories of other non-eckists who also did not go to
                      work that day or were late, etc. and they too were spared the
                      horrors of the day?? I have friends whose son and daughter-in-law
                      would have been in the area, if not in the WTC that fateful day, but
                      they had car trouble and were at a dealership looking to buy a new
                      car. These are Christians who know nothing about eckankar or the
                      mahanta. If no eckists were at all at the WTC or the Pentagon that
                      day, I rather think it would be more because no eckists worked at
                      those places in 2001! After all, eckists are quite a minority,
                      religiously speaking--quite the minority in more ways than one! Just
                      a small school of small fish in a very large pond!: )

                      Below is the repost in which another eckist saw a connection between
                      Harold Klemp (a twelve year cycle) and the terrorist attacks, which
                      then asks the question, "Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist?" LOL!

                      Hi, All!
                      I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
                      is) on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome
                      realization." Here's his post:


                      ********************************************************************

                      "I just came to an Awesome Realization this morning. I was watching
                      the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
                      local Eck Center during a Satsang Class I'm attending. Toward the
                      end of the tape Something Caught My Eye that I Almost Missed and
                      Might Have Regarded Only Casually, BUT I Reversed The Tape to see it
                      again. It was the Date that Sri Harold Broke Ground for the Temple--
                      SEPTEMBER 11, 1989. The narrator stated the Time as 10:30 am (which
                      would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).

                      This is Exactly 12 Years Before the Events Surrounding the Attack on
                      the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center Took Place. The First
                      Plane Hit at 8:46 am and the Second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time
                      (which is 1 hour later than Central Time). The First Tower Fell at
                      10:05 am and the Second at 10:28 am. (Source:
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

                      Exactly Twelve Years After Sri Harold Klemp Pierced the Earth with
                      his Shovel, the Second Plane Had Hit its Tower 28 Minutes Earlier
                      and the First Tower was to Fall 28 minutes Later.

                      I'm Just Reporting the Facts. I can't help but entertain various
                      interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
                      interfere with the significance that any of you might see." [My caps]


                      *********************************************************************
                      ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
                      Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
                      a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
                      earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
                      label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
                      thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
                      Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
                      Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
                      with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
                      there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
                      with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
                      become co-L.E.M. : )

                      Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
                      through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
                      by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
                      people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
                      their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
                      shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
                      delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

                      *********************************************************************
                      Another eckist responded to this post:

                      "Most of the Temple tour guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12
                      are apparently very powerful. Can't say much more than that because
                      I don't really understand it that well, myself. . . . "


                      *********************************************************************

                      ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
                      ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
                      worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
                      Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
                      mahanta! LOL!

                      Mish
                    • Elizabeth
                      ... *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn t all that knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he wouldn t be worried
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 14, 2006
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                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                        > protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through
                        > Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World Wide
                        > Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                        > This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                        > Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!
                        >
                        >

                        *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all that
                        knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                        wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show up
                        at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                      • prometheus_973
                        Hi Liz, Actually the Metal Detectors and bag searches didn t happen until after 9/11/2001. It doesn t have anything to do with people standing up to shout out
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 14, 2006
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                          Hi Liz,
                          Actually the Metal Detectors and bag searches didn't happen until
                          after 9/11/2001. It doesn't have anything to do with people standing
                          up to shout out and disrupt his talks. I've seen that happen before
                          and people could do that anyway with or without the other security
                          (fear) features. Besides, why would anyone want to harm Klemp AFTER
                          9/11 if they never tried BEFORE 9/11? The Security is for Klemp and
                          nobody else! BUT, why should HK be afraid? Maybe he's fearful and
                          paranoid because he's always been rather anti-social and reclusive?

                          Yes, it's true that Klemp has No real Spiritual Powers except in the
                          deluded minds of his followers/servants and in the false teachings
                          of the first Scammer Paul Twitchell. Klemp is very controlling,
                          unknowing and unloving, although, he'd never admit to any of this
                          due to his inflated ego and stubborn narrow-minded nature.

                          Look for some 09/2006 H.I. Letter information coming soon!

                          Prometheus

                          Elizabeth wrote:
                          Prometheus wrote:

                          What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                          protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through
                          Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World Wide
                          Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                          This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                          Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!

                          *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all that
                          knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                          wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show up
                          at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                        • mishmisha9
                          Hi, All! I think as well that these actions demonstrate fear and it trickles down to the chelas--just another fear tactic. But who would really care that much
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 15, 2006
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                            Hi, All!

                            I think as well that these actions demonstrate fear and it trickles
                            down to the chelas--just another fear tactic. But who would really
                            care that much about a miniscule religion like eckankar and its
                            little godman to threaten it??? It's just a bunch of nonsense to try
                            to look important and to also make chelas jump through more hoops,
                            like little circus animals really! : )

                            But I have to admit, it would be fun to witness someone stand up and
                            shout at Klemp when he's giving one of his silly talks! Now, that
                            would be interesting . . . to see how Klemp would handle it. Well, I
                            guess, it's his show so one needs to be polite or not be there at
                            all! Yep, I'm not going to the EWWS this year, again! LOL!

                            Mish

                            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Liz,
                            > Actually the Metal Detectors and bag searches didn't happen until
                            > after 9/11/2001. It doesn't have anything to do with people
                            standing
                            > up to shout out and disrupt his talks. I've seen that happen
                            before
                            > and people could do that anyway with or without the other security
                            > (fear) features. Besides, why would anyone want to harm Klemp
                            AFTER
                            > 9/11 if they never tried BEFORE 9/11? The Security is for Klemp
                            and
                            > nobody else! BUT, why should HK be afraid? Maybe he's fearful and
                            > paranoid because he's always been rather anti-social and
                            reclusive?
                            >
                            > Yes, it's true that Klemp has No real Spiritual Powers except in
                            the
                            > deluded minds of his followers/servants and in the false teachings
                            > of the first Scammer Paul Twitchell. Klemp is very controlling,
                            > unknowing and unloving, although, he'd never admit to any of this
                            > due to his inflated ego and stubborn narrow-minded nature.
                            >
                            > Look for some 09/2006 H.I. Letter information coming soon!
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                            > Elizabeth wrote:
                            > Prometheus wrote:
                            >
                            > What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                            > protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go
                            through
                            > Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World
                            Wide
                            > Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                            > This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                            > Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!
                            >
                            > *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all
                            that
                            > knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                            > wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show
                            up
                            > at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                            >
                          • prometheus_973
                            ECKists are preparing to make an outer pilgrimage to the 2006 EWWS. Why? And, are there Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the other Golden Wisdom Temples on
                            Message 13 of 16 , Oct 7, 2006
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                              ECKists are preparing to make an outer pilgrimage to the 2006 EWWS.
                              Why? And, are there Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the other
                              Golden Wisdom Temples on the physical Plane or on the "inner" at the
                              other Lower Plane Golden Wisdom Temples of ECK??

                              Hi Liz, (revised)
                              Actually the Metal Detectors and Bag Searches didn't happen until
                              After 9/11/2001. It doesn't have anything to do with people standing
                              up to shout out and disrupt his talks. I've seen that happen before
                              and they were led out to the hallway... no big deal really.
                              Sometimes normal/loyal ECKists will just get a little more out of
                              balance at these Seminars and tempers flare, etc. Also,
                              ECKists/people could shout out anyway with or without the security
                              (fear) features. Besides, why would anyone want to harm Klemp (AFTER
                              9/11) if they never tried BEFORE (9/11)? There was much more
                              animosity and hurt feelings around 1983-1984 when Gross (the 972nd
                              LEM/Mahanta) was being mistreated by Klemp and Company.

                              The Security is for Klemp and nobody else! This is why Metal
                              Detectors and Bag Searches are Only done when he is to speak in the
                              Main Hall.

                              On another note: Why are there searches at the Temple of ECK?
                              ECKists can't bring bags in with them on the Temple tours! Are
                              Eckists searched at every ECK Worship Service or just during the
                              Temple Tours? WHY? Why the fear? 99.9% of these people are ECKists!
                              This was never done before 9/11/2001.

                              Why should HK, the LEM/Mahanta, be afraid? HK's fearful and paranoid
                              because he's always been rather anti-social, reclusive, and
                              judgmental of others. He's an idiot and a scammer! Lately, I think
                              Klemp has been worried about that Negative Karma he's built up over
                              the years. The rationalizing about being the "fix" as a pseudo
                              saviour/master for ECKists to follow doesn't mean a thing any
                              longer. Klemp can no longer fool even himself about the real Truth!

                              Yes, it's true that Klemp has No real Spiritual Powers, except, in
                              the deluded minds of his followers/servants and in the false
                              teachings of the first Scammer Paul Twitchell. Klemp is very
                              controlling, unknowing and unloving, although, he'd never admit to
                              any of this due to his inflated ego and stubborn narrow-minded
                              nature.

                              Prometheus

                              Elizabeth wrote:
                              Prometheus wrote:

                              What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                              protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through
                              Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World Wide
                              Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                              This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                              Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!

                              *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all that
                              knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                              wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show up
                              at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                            • pretujari
                              Hi All, There s an African proverb which states that A scared man runs away when there is no one after him Pretujari ... EWWS. ... the ... standing ...
                              Message 14 of 16 , Oct 7, 2006
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                                Hi All,
                                There's an African proverb which states that 'A scared man runs away
                                when there is no one after him"

                                Pretujari

                                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > ECKists are preparing to make an outer pilgrimage to the 2006
                                EWWS.
                                > Why? And, are there Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the other
                                > Golden Wisdom Temples on the physical Plane or on the "inner" at
                                the
                                > other Lower Plane Golden Wisdom Temples of ECK??
                                >
                                > Hi Liz, (revised)
                                > Actually the Metal Detectors and Bag Searches didn't happen until
                                > After 9/11/2001. It doesn't have anything to do with people
                                standing
                                > up to shout out and disrupt his talks. I've seen that happen
                                before
                                > and they were led out to the hallway... no big deal really.
                                > Sometimes normal/loyal ECKists will just get a little more out of
                                > balance at these Seminars and tempers flare, etc. Also,
                                > ECKists/people could shout out anyway with or without the security
                                > (fear) features. Besides, why would anyone want to harm Klemp
                                (AFTER
                                > 9/11) if they never tried BEFORE (9/11)? There was much more
                                > animosity and hurt feelings around 1983-1984 when Gross (the 972nd
                                > LEM/Mahanta) was being mistreated by Klemp and Company.
                                >
                                > The Security is for Klemp and nobody else! This is why Metal
                                > Detectors and Bag Searches are Only done when he is to speak in
                                the
                                > Main Hall.
                                >
                                > On another note: Why are there searches at the Temple of ECK?
                                > ECKists can't bring bags in with them on the Temple tours! Are
                                > Eckists searched at every ECK Worship Service or just during the
                                > Temple Tours? WHY? Why the fear? 99.9% of these people are
                                ECKists!
                                > This was never done before 9/11/2001.
                                >
                                > Why should HK, the LEM/Mahanta, be afraid? HK's fearful and
                                paranoid
                                > because he's always been rather anti-social, reclusive, and
                                > judgmental of others. He's an idiot and a scammer! Lately, I think
                                > Klemp has been worried about that Negative Karma he's built up
                                over
                                > the years. The rationalizing about being the "fix" as a pseudo
                                > saviour/master for ECKists to follow doesn't mean a thing any
                                > longer. Klemp can no longer fool even himself about the real
                                Truth!
                                >
                                > Yes, it's true that Klemp has No real Spiritual Powers, except, in
                                > the deluded minds of his followers/servants and in the false
                                > teachings of the first Scammer Paul Twitchell. Klemp is very
                                > controlling, unknowing and unloving, although, he'd never admit to
                                > any of this due to his inflated ego and stubborn narrow-minded
                                > nature.
                                >
                                > Prometheus
                                >
                                > Elizabeth wrote:
                                > Prometheus wrote:
                                >
                                > What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                                > protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go
                                through
                                > Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World
                                Wide
                                > Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                                > This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                                > Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!
                                >
                                > *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all
                                that
                                > knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                                > wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show
                                up
                                > at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                                >
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