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Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist? : )

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  • mishmisha9
    Hi, All! I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an awesome realization. Here s his
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 13, 2006
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      Hi, All!

      I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
      is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
      Here's his post:

      "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
      the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
      local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
      end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
      might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
      again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
      September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
      would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
      years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
      the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
      and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
      later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
      second at 10:28 am. (Source:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)Exactly
      twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with his
      shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier and
      the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.

      I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
      interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
      interfere with the significance that any of you might see."

      ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
      Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
      a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
      earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
      label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
      thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
      Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
      Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
      with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
      there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
      with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
      become co-L.E.M. : )

      Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
      through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
      by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
      people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
      their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
      shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
      delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

      Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
      guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
      powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
      understand it that well, myself. . . . "

      ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
      ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
      worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
      Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
      mahanta! LOL!

      Mish
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, All! To expand a bit on my previous post that follows, I should have mentioned that the eckist who is attempting to link Harold Klemp to the events of the
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 13, 2006
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        Hi, All!

        To expand a bit on my previous post that follows, I should have
        mentioned that the eckist who is attempting to link Harold Klemp to
        the events of the world, particularly the World Trade Center attack,
        titled his post "Historical perspective." This is interesting,
        because on another eck chat discussion site, this very same eckist
        proclaimed he wasn't interested in "past history beyond its
        relevance to my (his) personal experience." This remark was in reply
        to another poster's comments about the eckankar connection in the
        Sedona Property scandal. You can read about "Broken Promises and
        Opportunists, the Ownership Transition History of Jack and Helen
        Frye's TWA Get-A-Way: Smoke Trail Ranch . . . at:

        http://www.sedonalegendhelenfrye.com/page9.html

        When confronted with this bit of eckankar history and the
        involvement of the eck leadership (L.E.M.) in this money scandal
        (remember, most of us realize it all amounts to $$$$), this eckist
        had this to say about history:

        "I am not interested in legends at all nor past history beyond its
        relevance to my personal experience. I am only interested in what I
        can do to pursue deeper knowledge and experience of life. The
        Mahanta and the Spiritual Exercises of Eck are one way to explore
        this. Take it or leave it. If anything is true, it is that each
        moment brings new facts and truths to light. What happened even
        yesterday is not as important as what is happening right now.
        Debating and dredging up historical minutia is like analyzing a puff
        of smoke hoping to relive the days when the thing that burned was
        still intact."

        It seems that this eckist contradicts himself quite a bit in these
        two posts, and it displays the prevalent delusional thinking and
        tunnel vision that become a part of eckists' confused thinking and
        behavior as they continue to hold on to the fake belief system and
        cultish scam called eckankar. Notice there is so much confusion and
        lack of understanding within the eck cult! So, these eckists
        continue to follow on blind faith and contradictory thinking.
        They're so desparate and willing to separate the "untruths" they
        want to believe, twisting them into some kind of "delusional truth"
        in order to validate the eckankar belief system, from the
        real "truths" of actual facts that they cannot handle in their
        confused and tunnel visioned minds. Pity, really!

        Mish


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
        <mishmisha9@...> wrote:

        Hi, All!

        I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
        is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
        Here's his post:

        "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
        the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
        local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
        end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
        might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
        again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
        September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
        would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
        years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
        the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
        and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
        later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
        second at 10:28 am. (Source:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)Exactly
        twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with his
        shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier and
        the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.

        I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
        interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
        interfere with the significance that any of you might see."

        ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
        Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
        a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
        earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
        label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
        thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
        Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
        Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
        with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
        there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
        with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
        become co-L.E.M. : )

        Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
        through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
        by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
        people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
        their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
        shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
        delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

        Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
        guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
        powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
        understand it that well, myself. . . . "

        ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
        ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
        worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
        Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
        mahanta! LOL!

        Mish
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello All, I find this topic to be interesting for a numer of reasons. It is also interesting to revisit the Eckankar Helen Frye Sedona scam with Darwin
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 13, 2006
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          Hello All,

          I find this topic to be interesting for a numer of reasons. It is
          also interesting to revisit the Eckankar Helen Frye Sedona scam with
          Darwin Gross's (972nd LEM/Mahanta) involvement. Afterall, during
          this period of scamming, sex, and alcohol the "Black Magician" D.G.
          was handing out Higher Initiations to Klemp and dozens of other
          current 7th, 6th, and 9th Initiates! Klemp got evry Higher
          Initiation from Gross! Therefore, I can see why there is a
          correlation between the two different 9/11 events since Klemp is the
          apprentice of a Black Magician (Klemp's words) and a fallen Master.
          Gross is likened to a fallen angel or Darth Vader, and isn't the Kal
          actually Satan! Afterall, Klemp did meet with Gross, twice, in a
          Soundproof Darkroom to plan the take over of Eckankar. Was this too
          just a coincidence or not? : )

          Yes, I can see why some Eckists are very confused in seeing these
          correlations and coincidences and not knowing what to think. Their
          Mahanta seems to be helpless and unwilling to help change events for
          the better. On one hand the whole purpose of Eckankar (the Mahanta's
          Mission) seems to be to spread the message of Eck which amounts to
          teaching people to HU (pray) and saving them from the lower worlds
          (hell) via the Mahanta (the savior). On another hand this requires
          an annual paid membership, the purchase of HU tapes or CDs and other
          published materials, and years of missionary work and trainings,
          etc. within the hierarchy for promotion to higher ranks.

          Anyway, these official unofficial Eckankar Yahoo Group sites "HU-
          Chat" and "Conversations With Twitchell" are a real hoot! Thanks
          again for the information.

          Mish: To expand a bit on my previous post that follows, I should
          have mentioned that the eckist who is attempting to link Harold
          Klemp to the events of the world, particularly the World Trade
          Center attack, titled his post "Historical perspective." This is
          interesting, because on another eck chat discussion site, this very
          same eckist proclaimed he wasn't interested in "past history beyond
          its relevance to my (his) personal experience." This remark was in
          reply to another poster's comments about the eckankar connection in
          the Sedona Property scandal. You can read about "Broken Promises and
          Opportunists, the Ownership Transition History of Jack and Helen
          Frye's TWA Get-A-Way: Smoke Trail Ranch . . . at:

          http://www.sedonalegendhelenfrye.com/page9.html

          Mish: When confronted with this bit of eckankar history and the
          involvement of the eck leadership (L.E.M.) in this money scandal
          (remember, most of us realize it all amounts to $$$$), this eckist
          had this to say about history:

          [Rev. P.A.]: "I am not interested in legends at all nor past history
          beyond its relevance to my personal experience. I am only interested
          in what I can do to pursue deeper knowledge and experience of life.
          The Mahanta and the Spiritual Exercises of Eck are one way to
          explore this. Take it or leave it. If anything is true, it is that
          each moment brings new facts and truths to light. What happened even
          yesterday is not as important as what is happening right now.
          Debating and dredging up historical minutia is like analyzing a puff
          of smoke hoping to relive the days when the thing that burned was
          still intact."

          Mish: It seems that this eckist contradicts himself quite a bit in
          these two posts, and it displays the prevalent delusional thinking
          and tunnel vision that become a part of eckists' confused thinking
          and behavior as they continue to hold on to the fake belief system
          and cultish scam called eckankar. Notice there is so much confusion
          and lack of understanding within the eck cult! So, these eckists
          continue to follow on blind faith and contradictory thinking.
          They're so desparate and willing to separate the "untruths" they
          want to believe, twisting them into some kind of "delusional truth"
          in order to validate the eckankar belief system, from the
          real "truths" of actual facts that they cannot handle in their
          confused and tunnel visioned minds. Pity, really!

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
          <mishmisha9@> wrote:

          Hi, All!
          I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
          is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
          Here's his post:

          [Rev. P.A.]: "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I
          was watching the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning
          it to my local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending.
          Toward the end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost
          missed and might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the
          tape to see it again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground
          for the Temple--September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as
          10:30 am (which would be Central Time Daylight Time in
          Minnesota).This is exactly 12 years before the events surrounding
          the attack on the twin towers of the World Trade Center took place.
          The first plane hit at 8:46 am and the second at 9:02 am Eastern
          daylight Time (which is 1 hour later than Central Time). The first
          tower fell at 10:05 am and the second at 10:28 am. (Source:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)Exactly
          twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with his
          shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier and
          the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.I'm just reporting the
          facts. I can't help but entertain various interpretations, but will
          keep them to myself for now as they might interfere with the
          significance that any of you might see."

          Mish: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
          Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
          a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
          earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
          label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
          thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
          Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
          Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
          with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
          there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
          with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
          become co-L.E.M. : )

          Mish: Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
          through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
          by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
          people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
          their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
          shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
          delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

          Mish: Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple
          tour guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
          powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
          understand it that well, myself. . . . "

          Mish: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
          ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
          worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
          Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
          mahanta! LOL!

          Me: Yes, Klemp's house of cards is falling for those Eckists with
          eyes to see and ears to hear the Truth. The real Truth does not come
          from others who place themselves above others as pseudo experts or
          masters as they distort truth and facts due to their own ignorance,
          ego, and misunderstandings. They prejudge people and events to form
          opinions that they have become attached to because it fits their
          misdirected agendas. However, they will never truly "See" because
          they think too highly of their own little selves, and this also
          makes them too proud to admit this truth and to change. They are
          comfortable and secure with what and who they think they are and
          with playing games with those they can (or think they can)
          manipulate and control in the delusional world they (and others)
          have created by the their own lower self (being fooled) and
          disguising itself through its own delusions of grandeur. For many
          Souls its a neverending cycle of distractions, lessons, and tests
          and yet sometimes the so called "distractions" have/are lessons that
          make the tests much easier.

          Prometheus
        • Ed Kusi
          Hi Mish and All, This is how Eckists can stretch the imagination and clutch at straws to make their beloved mahanta appear more than he really is. A classic
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 14, 2006
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            Hi Mish and All,
            This is how Eckists can stretch the imagination and clutch at straws to make their beloved mahanta appear more than he really is. A classic example of the pathetic extent to which some will go to have themselves an authority spiritual figure.

            mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
            Hi, All!

            I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
            is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization. "
            Here's his post:

            "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
            the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
            local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
            end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
            might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
            again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
            September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
            would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
            years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
            the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
            and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
            later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
            second at 10:28 am. (Source:
            http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ September_ 11,_2001 attacks)Exactly
            twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with his
            shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier and
            the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.

            I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
            interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
            interfere with the significance that any of you might see."

            ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
            Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
            a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
            earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
            label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
            thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
            Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
            Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
            with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
            there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
            with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
            become co-L.E.M. : )

            Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
            through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
            by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
            people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
            their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
            shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
            delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

            Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
            guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
            powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
            understand it that well, myself. . . . "

            ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
            ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
            worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
            Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
            mahanta! LOL!

            Mish



            Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

          • Freefrom
            Good point! Not only are there those who seem to want the prison of AUTHORITY, there are also enough who get a rush out of being a BOGUS AUTHORITY. (for
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 14, 2006
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              Good point! Not only are there those who seem to want the prison of
              AUTHORITY, there are also enough who get a rush out of being a BOGUS
              AUTHORITY. (for example, klemp) Such is the life of DELUSION. ; )

              Freefrom

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Ed Kusi
              <pretujari@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Mish and All,
              > This is how Eckists can stretch the imagination and clutch at
              straws to make their beloved mahanta appear more than he really is. A
              classic example of the pathetic extent to which some will go to have
              themselves an authority spiritual figure.
              >
              > mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
              > Hi, All!
              >
              > I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
              > is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
              > Here's his post:
              >
              > "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
              > the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
              > local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
              > end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
              > might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
              > again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
              > September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
              > would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
              > years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
              > the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
              > and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
              > later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
              > second at 10:28 am. (Source:
              > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)Exactly
              > twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with his
              > shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier and
              > the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.
              >
              > I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
              > interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
              > interfere with the significance that any of you might see."
              >
              > ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
              > Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
              > a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
              > earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
              > label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
              > thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
              > Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
              > Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
              > with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
              > there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
              > with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
              > become co-L.E.M. : )
              >
              > Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
              > through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
              > by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
              > people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
              > their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
              > shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
              > delusion building on delusion IMO! : )
              >
              > Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
              > guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
              > powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
              > understand it that well, myself. . . . "
              >
              > ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
              > ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
              > worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
              > Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
              > mahanta! LOL!
              >
              > Mish
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hi All, Yes, it seems that Klemp is at least a Kal terrorist as he spreads lies and untruths. One has to wonder why many Eckists discount the Golden-Tongued
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 15, 2006
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                Hi All,
                Yes, it seems that Klemp is at least a Kal terrorist as he spreads
                lies and untruths. One has to wonder why many Eckists discount the
                Golden-Tongued Wisdom and Waking Dreams that point to Klemp's
                deceptions. Why not look at everything that comes one's way? If
                Darwin Gross (972nd LEM/Mahanta) could fall from Grace then why
                couldn't Klemp? And, since Klemp did fall from Grace then what good
                are those Eck Initiations given under his authority! What good were
                those given under Gross's authority! They weren't/aren't worth what
                it cost to print up the pink slips! The Initiations were a scam
                anyway and certainly those coming from agents of the Kal aren't of a
                Positive spiritual value! It's all part of the scam of delusion and
                just one more test for Soul. No religion is of value to the
                independent and free master Soul. To follow another, regardless of
                promises or imagined results, is to lose sight of the true goal for
                this lifetime. Those who can (and are ready) will see and hear and
                understand this.

                Prometheus


                Freefrom eckchains wrote:

                Good point! Not only are there those who seem to want the prison of
                AUTHORITY, there are also enough who get a rush out of being a BOGUS
                AUTHORITY. (for example, klemp) Such is the life of DELUSION. ; )

                Freefrom

                pretujari wrote:

                Hi Mish and All,
                This is how Eckists can stretch the imagination and clutch at straws
                to make their beloved mahanta appear more than he really is. A
                classic example of the pathetic extent to which some will go to have
                themselves an authority spiritual figure.

                mishmisha wrote:
                Hi, All!

                I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
                is) on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome
                realization."

                Here's his post:

                "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
                the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
                local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
                end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
                might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
                again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
                September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
                would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
                years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
                the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
                and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
                later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
                second at 10:28 am. (Source:
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

                Exactly twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with
                his shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier
                and the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.

                I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
                interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
                interfere with the significance that any of you might see."

                ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
                Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
                a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
                earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
                label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
                thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
                Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
                Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
                with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
                there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
                with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
                become co-L.E.M. : )

                Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
                through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
                by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
                people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
                their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
                shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
                delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

                Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
                guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
                powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
                understand it that well, myself. . . . "

                ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
                ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
                worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
                Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
                mahanta! LOL!

                Mish
              • prometheus_973
                Well, here s another post that I wanted to bring back to the front page. BTW - all new members or first time visitors to this site really need to read the
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 19, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Well, here's another post that I wanted to bring back to the front
                  page. BTW - all new members or first time visitors to this site
                  really need to read the archives and take a look at the LINKS.

                  I noticed that in a recent post on HU-Chat that Peter was talking
                  about that former Eck Master... number 972... you know who... the
                  one that was betrayed or was booted by number 973 or was HK just
                  the third liar and deceiver! LOL!

                  Isn't it funny that Eckists are Not supposed to mention Darwin by
                  name! Is it bad luck or what? Actually, it is bad luck because if
                  one's RESA hears about any Eckist talking about Darwin Gross
                  there'll be Hell to pay! Don't count on getting that next pink slip
                  if it's your time - you'll be put on hold for about three more
                  years. Yea, I know, it's Eck History and all that, but it's just Not
                  permitted!

                  However, and as I've said before, where did most of those "Eck"
                  Initiations come from for all of those 35 year plus H.I.s?! By who's
                  authority? Most came from the authority of the 972nd LEM/Mahanta
                  and "Black Magician" Darwin Gross (or his secretary BB when DG was
                  too busy or out of town) that's where!



                  Hi All,
                  Yes, it seems that Klemp is at least a Kal terrorist as he spreads
                  lies and untruths. One has to wonder why many Eckists discount the
                  Golden-Tongued Wisdom and Waking Dreams that point to Klemp's
                  deceptions. Why not look at everything that comes one's way? If
                  Darwin Gross (972nd LEM/Mahanta) could fall from Grace then why
                  couldn't Klemp? And, since Klemp did fall from Grace then what good
                  are those Eck Initiations given under his authority! What good were
                  those given under Gross's authority! They weren't/aren't worth what
                  it cost to print up the pink slips! The Initiations were a scam
                  anyway and certainly those coming from agents of the Kal aren't of a
                  Positive spiritual value! It's all part of the scam of delusion and
                  just one more test for Soul. No religion is of value to the
                  independent and free master Soul. To follow another, regardless of
                  promises or imagined results, is to lose sight of the true goal for
                  this lifetime. Those who can (and are ready) will see and hear and
                  understand this.

                  Prometheus


                  Freefrom eckchains wrote:

                  Good point! Not only are there those who seem to want the prison of
                  AUTHORITY, there are also enough who get a rush out of being a BOGUS
                  AUTHORITY. (for example, klemp) Such is the life of DELUSION. ; )

                  Freefrom

                  pretujari wrote:

                  Hi Mish and All,
                  This is how Eckists can stretch the imagination and clutch at straws
                  to make their beloved mahanta appear more than he really is. A
                  classic example of the pathetic extent to which some will go to have
                  themselves an authority spiritual figure.

                  mishmisha wrote:
                  Hi, All!

                  I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
                  is) on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome
                  realization."


                  ***[BTW-The Eckist making the 9/11 correlations is Rev. Peter Anton
                  and the Eck site is HU-Chat]

                  ####################################################################
                  Here's his post:

                  "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
                  the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
                  local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
                  end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
                  might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
                  again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
                  September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
                  would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
                  years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
                  the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
                  and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
                  later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
                  second at 10:28 am. (Source:
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

                  Exactly twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with
                  his shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier
                  and the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.

                  I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
                  interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
                  interfere with the significance that any of you might see."

                  ####################################################################

                  ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
                  Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
                  a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
                  earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
                  label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
                  thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
                  Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
                  Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
                  with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
                  there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
                  with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
                  become co-L.E.M. : )

                  Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
                  through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
                  by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
                  people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
                  their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
                  shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
                  delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

                  Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
                  guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
                  powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
                  understand it that well, myself. . . . "

                  ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
                  ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
                  worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
                  Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
                  mahanta! LOL!

                  Mish
                • mishmisha9
                  Hi, All! I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating attacks on the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 10, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi, All!
                    I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we
                    are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating
                    attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001.
                    As a further note, I have read some discussions by eckists who
                    believe that no eckists perished in these attacks, as they were
                    delayed or had changes of plans that kept them away from their jobs
                    in the WTC and the Pentagon that day--they believe this is because
                    eckists were protected by the mahanta. However, how do eckists
                    account for the stories of other non-eckists who also did not go to
                    work that day or were late, etc. and they too were spared the
                    horrors of the day?? I have friends whose son and daughter-in-law
                    would have been in the area, if not in the WTC that fateful day, but
                    they had car trouble and were at a dealership looking to buy a new
                    car. These are Christians who know nothing about eckankar or the
                    mahanta. If no eckists were at all at the WTC or the Pentagon that
                    day, I rather think it would be more because no eckists worked at
                    those places in 2001! After all, eckists are quite a minority,
                    religiously speaking--quite the minority in more ways than one! Just
                    a small school of small fish in a very large pond!: )

                    Below is the repost in which another eckist saw a connection between
                    Harold Klemp (a twelve year cycle) and the terrorist attacks, which
                    then asks the question, "Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist?" LOL!

                    Hi, All!

                    I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
                    is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
                    Here's his post:

                    "I just came to an awesome realization this morning. I was watching
                    the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
                    local Eck Center during a Satsang class I'm attending. Toward the
                    end of the tape something caught my eye that I almost missed and
                    might have regarded only casually, but I reversed the tape to see it
                    again. It was the date that Sri Harold broke ground for the Temple--
                    September 11, 1989. The narrator stated the time as 10:30 am (which
                    would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).This is exactly 12
                    years before the events surrounding the attack on the twin towers of
                    the World Trade Center took place. The first plane hit at 8:46 am
                    and the second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time (which is 1 hour
                    later than Central Time). The first tower fell at 10:05 am and the
                    second at 10:28 am. (Source:
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)Exactly
                    twelve years after Sri Harold Klemp pierced the earth with his
                    shovel, the second plane had hit its tower 28 minutes earlier and
                    the first tower was to fall 28 minutes later.

                    I'm just reporting the facts. I can't help but entertain various
                    interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
                    interfere with the significance that any of you might see."

                    ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
                    Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
                    a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
                    earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
                    label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
                    thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
                    Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
                    Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
                    with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
                    there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
                    with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
                    become co-L.E.M. : )

                    Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
                    through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
                    by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
                    people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
                    their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
                    shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
                    delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

                    Another eckist responded to this post: "Most of the Temple tour
                    guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12 are apparently very
                    powerful. Can't say much more than that because I don't really
                    understand it that well, myself. . . . "

                    ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
                    ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
                    worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
                    Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
                    mahanta! LOL!

                    Mish
                    >
                  • prometheus_973
                    It seems that Klemp s Connection (as Peter points out) to the Negative Events of 9/11/2001 do connect HK to the Kal! However, while ECKists are supposed to pay
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 10, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      It seems that Klemp's Connection (as Peter points out) to the
                      Negative Events of 9/11/2001 do connect HK to the Kal! However,
                      while ECKists are supposed to pay attention to details they are Not
                      to see Negative connections to their Mahanta. This is the Catch-22
                      rule that Klemp lives by. Of course, the Catch-22 rule was created
                      by the Kal. Klemp, Gross, and Twitchell's Eckankar can't stand up to
                      the Truth. Those Eckists who continue to believe these distortions
                      and close their eyes and minds to Truth are swimming with a small
                      school of small fish in a very large pond.

                      Prometheus

                      mishmisha wrote:

                      Hi, All!
                      I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we
                      are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating
                      attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001.
                      As a further note, I have read some discussions by eckists who
                      believe that no eckists perished in these attacks, as they were
                      delayed or had changes of plans that kept them away from their jobs
                      in the WTC and the Pentagon that day--they believe this is because
                      eckists were protected by the mahanta. However, how do eckists
                      account for the stories of other non-eckists who also did not go to
                      work that day or were late, etc. and they too were spared the
                      horrors of the day?? I have friends whose son and daughter-in-law
                      would have been in the area, if not in the WTC that fateful day, but
                      they had car trouble and were at a dealership looking to buy a new
                      car. These are Christians who know nothing about eckankar or the
                      mahanta. If no eckists were at all at the WTC or the Pentagon that
                      day, I rather think it would be more because no eckists worked at
                      those places in 2001! After all, eckists are quite a minority,
                      religiously speaking--quite the minority in more ways than one! Just
                      a small school of small fish in a very large pond!: )

                      Below is the repost in which another eckist saw a connection between
                      Harold Klemp (a twelve year cycle) and the terrorist attacks, which
                      then asks the question, "Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist?" LOL!

                      Hi, All!
                      I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
                      is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
                      Here's his post:

                      ********************************************************************
                      [Rev. Peter Anton, Eck Chela]
                      "I just came to an Awesome Realization this morning. I was watching
                      the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
                      local Eck Center during a Satsang Class I'm attending. Toward the
                      end of the tape Something Caught My Eye that I Almost Missed and
                      Might Have Regarded Only Casually, BUT I Reversed The Tape to see it
                      again. It was the Date that Sri Harold Broke Ground for the Temple--
                      SEPTEMBER 11, 1989. The narrator stated the Time as 10:30 am (which
                      would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).

                      This is Exactly 12 Years Before the Events Surrounding the Attack on
                      the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center Took Place. The First
                      Plane Hit at 8:46 am and the Second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time
                      (which is 1 hour later than Central Time). The First Tower Fell at
                      10:05 am and the Second at 10:28 am. (Source:
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

                      Exactly Twelve Years After Sri Harold Klemp Pierced the Earth with
                      his Shovel, the Second Plane Had Hit its Tower 28 Minutes Earlier
                      and the First Tower was to Fall 28 minutes Later.

                      I'm Just Reporting the Facts. I can't help but entertain various
                      interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
                      interfere with the significance that any of you might see." [My caps]
                      *********************************************************************

                      ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
                      Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
                      a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
                      earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
                      label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
                      thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
                      Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
                      Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
                      with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
                      there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
                      with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
                      become co-L.E.M. : )

                      Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
                      through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
                      by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
                      people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
                      their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
                      shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
                      delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

                      *********************************************************************
                      Another eckist responded to this [Peter's] post:

                      "Most of the Temple tour guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12
                      are apparently very powerful. Can't say much more than that because
                      I don't really understand it that well, myself. . . . "
                      *********************************************************************

                      ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
                      ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
                      worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
                      Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
                      mahanta! LOL!

                      Mish
                    • mishmisha9
                      Hi, All! Today is a day of remembrance of the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon 5 years ago. A lot of people, including eckists, are still trying to make
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 11, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi, All!

                        Today is a day of remembrance of the attacks on the WTC and the
                        Pentagon 5 years ago. A lot of people, including eckists, are still
                        trying to make sense out of this tragic event. The connection that
                        one eckist on HuChat was attempting was to tie the 9/11/01 to Klemp
                        plunging his shovel in the ground on 9/11/89 in Chanhassen, to begin
                        construction of the eck temple. This eckist intricately drew
                        parallels to the two events, linking them up as an important 12 Year
                        Cycle in eckankar--giving it eck significance, and in doing so, he
                        connected the mahanta to the actions of the terrorists who attacked
                        the WTC and the Pentagon. As Prometheus points out eckists are not
                        to see the negative connections to the mahanta, so I guess this
                        eckist is sorely lacking in eck education/etiquette! : ) But maybe
                        he is not alone in this thinking? Attached below are my original
                        post and Prometheus' reply.

                        On an added note, I was reading TIME magazine, the Sept, 11, 2006
                        edition, "What We Lost." Inside, there is an article on the
                        conspiracy myths of 9/11 which might help explain our need to look
                        for links tying in conspiracies to major tragic events--including
                        suggesting that the mahanta might have been part of the terrorist
                        activities. The article by Lev Grossman begins with this
                        header: "Why the 9/11 Conspiracies Won't Go Away . . . Turns out, we
                        need grand theories to make sense of grand events, or the world just
                        seems too random."

                        The article goes on to explain: "There are psychological
                        explanations for why conspiracy theories are so seductive. Academics
                        who study them argue that they meet a basic human need: to have the
                        magnitude of any given effect be balanced by the magnitude of the
                        cause behind it. A world in which tiny causes can have huge
                        consequences feels scary and unreliable. Therefore a grand disaster
                        like Sept. 11 needs a grand conspiracy behind it. 'We tend to
                        associate major events--a President or princess dying--with major
                        causes,' says Patrick Leman, a lecturer in psychology at Royal
                        Holloway University of London, who has conducted studies on
                        conspiracy belief.'If we think big events like a President being
                        assassinated can happen at the hands of a minor individual, that
                        points to the the unpredictability and randomness of life and
                        unsettles us.' In that sense, the idea that there is a malevolent
                        controlling force orchestrating global events is, in a perverse way,
                        comforting."

                        My hunch is that the eckist who was weaving in a 12 Year Cycle in
                        eck to the events of 9/11/01 was simply trying to comfort himself by
                        attempting to validate his belief in the power of his beloved
                        mahanta, but in so doing, he actually turned his mahanta into an
                        agent for the kal. Of course, those of us who view Klemp and his org
                        as a cult, see this as the bigger picture; but of course, we know
                        Klemp has no powers to control others or to orchestrate such worldly
                        events! However, scamming people into believing in a bogus religion
                        is definitely a conspiracy and as such has long range negative
                        effects on those who fall for the scam until they, like us (former
                        eckists) eventually come to recognize their own gulliability in
                        being duped by the eck lies and deceptions. The realization of our
                        gulliability is an awareness that will lead people, including some
                        eckists eventually, to higher consciousness. The ties that
                        unbind and liberate us back to being free thinkers and masters of
                        our fate!

                        Bringing our experiences and what we have gleaned from our "eck"
                        experiences in posts to this site serve the purpose of helping
                        others confused and questioning the eck leadership and org to come
                        to this greater awareness. For me, a strong sense of duty to share
                        my perspectives and experiences guides me to participate on this
                        site. Looking back, it is really funny to see how I fell for the eck
                        scam. I find it amusing as well as enlightening that it could happen
                        to me! : )

                        BTW, welcome Makizor and Victorious Traveler for joining our group!

                        I've attached the earlier posts so one can easily access what was
                        posted previously!

                        Mish

                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

                        It seems that Klemp's Connection (as Peter points out) to the
                        Negative Events of 9/11/2001 do connect HK to the Kal! However,
                        while ECKists are supposed to pay attention to details they are Not
                        to see Negative connections to their Mahanta. This is the Catch-22
                        rule that Klemp lives by. Of course, the Catch-22 rule was created
                        by the Kal. Klemp, Gross, and Twitchell's Eckankar can't stand up to
                        the Truth. Those Eckists who continue to believe these distortions
                        and close their eyes and minds to Truth are swimming with a small
                        school of small fish in a very large pond.

                        Prometheus

                        mishmisha wrote:

                        Hi, All!
                        I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we
                        are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating
                        attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001.
                        As a further note, I have read some discussions by eckists who
                        believe that no eckists perished in these attacks, as they were
                        delayed or had changes of plans that kept them away from their jobs
                        in the WTC and the Pentagon that day--they believe this is because
                        eckists were protected by the mahanta. However, how do eckists
                        account for the stories of other non-eckists who also did not go to
                        work that day or were late, etc. and they too were spared the
                        horrors of the day?? I have friends whose son and daughter-in-law
                        would have been in the area, if not in the WTC that fateful day, but
                        they had car trouble and were at a dealership looking to buy a new
                        car. These are Christians who know nothing about eckankar or the
                        mahanta. If no eckists were at all at the WTC or the Pentagon that
                        day, I rather think it would be more because no eckists worked at
                        those places in 2001! After all, eckists are quite a minority,
                        religiously speaking--quite the minority in more ways than one! Just
                        a small school of small fish in a very large pond!: )

                        Below is the repost in which another eckist saw a connection between
                        Harold Klemp (a twelve year cycle) and the terrorist attacks, which
                        then asks the question, "Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist?" LOL!

                        Hi, All!
                        I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
                        is)on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome realization."
                        Here's his post:

                        ********************************************************************

                        "I just came to an Awesome Realization this morning. I was watching
                        the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
                        local Eck Center during a Satsang Class I'm attending. Toward the
                        end of the tape Something Caught My Eye that I Almost Missed and
                        Might Have Regarded Only Casually, BUT I Reversed The Tape to see it
                        again. It was the Date that Sri Harold Broke Ground for the Temple--
                        SEPTEMBER 11, 1989. The narrator stated the Time as 10:30 am (which
                        would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).

                        This is Exactly 12 Years Before the Events Surrounding the Attack on
                        the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center Took Place. The First
                        Plane Hit at 8:46 am and the Second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time
                        (which is 1 hour later than Central Time). The First Tower Fell at
                        10:05 am and the Second at 10:28 am. (Source:
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

                        Exactly Twelve Years After Sri Harold Klemp Pierced the Earth with
                        his Shovel, the Second Plane Had Hit its Tower 28 Minutes Earlier
                        and the First Tower was to Fall 28 minutes Later.

                        I'm Just Reporting the Facts. I can't help but entertain various
                        interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
                        interfere with the significance that any of you might see." [My caps]

                        *********************************************************************

                        ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
                        Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
                        a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
                        earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
                        label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
                        thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
                        Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
                        Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
                        with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
                        there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
                        with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
                        become co-L.E.M. : )

                        Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
                        through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
                        by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
                        people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
                        their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
                        shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
                        delusion building on delusion IMO! : )


                        *********************************************************************
                        Another eckist responded to this post:

                        "Most of the Temple tour guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12
                        are apparently very powerful. Can't say much more than that because
                        I don't really understand it that well, myself. . . . "

                        *********************************************************************

                        ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
                        ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
                        worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
                        Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
                        mahanta! LOL!

                        Mish
                        >
                      • prometheus_973
                        What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn t he give his protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through Metal Detectors and have
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 14, 2006
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                          What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                          protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through
                          Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World Wide
                          Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                          This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                          Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!

                          mishmisha wrote:
                          Hi, All!

                          Today is a day of remembrance of the attacks on the WTC and the
                          Pentagon 5 years ago. A lot of people, including eckists, are still
                          trying to make sense out of this tragic event. The connection that
                          one eckist on HuChat was attempting was to tie the 9/11/01 to Klemp
                          plunging his shovel in the ground on 9/11/89 in Chanhassen, to begin
                          construction of the eck temple. This eckist intricately drew
                          parallels to the two events, linking them up as an important 12 Year
                          Cycle in eckankar--giving it eck significance, and in doing so, he
                          connected the mahanta to the actions of the terrorists who attacked
                          the WTC and the Pentagon. As Prometheus points out eckists are not
                          to see the negative connections to the mahanta, so I guess this
                          eckist is sorely lacking in eck education/etiquette! : ) But maybe
                          he is not alone in this thinking? Attached below are my original
                          post and Prometheus' reply.

                          On an added note, I was reading TIME magazine, the Sept, 11, 2006
                          edition, "What We Lost." Inside, there is an article on the
                          conspiracy myths of 9/11 which might help explain our need to look
                          for links tying in conspiracies to major tragic events--including
                          suggesting that the mahanta might have been part of the terrorist
                          activities. The article by Lev Grossman begins with this
                          header: "Why the 9/11 Conspiracies Won't Go Away . . . Turns out, we
                          need grand theories to make sense of grand events, or the world just
                          seems too random."

                          The article goes on to explain: "There are psychological
                          explanations for why conspiracy theories are so seductive. Academics
                          who study them argue that they meet a basic human need: to have the
                          magnitude of any given effect be balanced by the magnitude of the
                          cause behind it. A world in which tiny causes can have huge
                          consequences feels scary and unreliable. Therefore a grand disaster
                          like Sept. 11 needs a grand conspiracy behind it. 'We tend to
                          associate major events--a President or princess dying--with major
                          causes,' says Patrick Leman, a lecturer in psychology at Royal
                          Holloway University of London, who has conducted studies on
                          conspiracy belief.'If we think big events like a President being
                          assassinated can happen at the hands of a minor individual, that
                          points to the the unpredictability and randomness of life and
                          unsettles us.' In that sense, the idea that there is a malevolent
                          controlling force orchestrating global events is, in a perverse way,
                          comforting."

                          My hunch is that the eckist who was weaving in a 12 Year Cycle in
                          eck to the events of 9/11/01 was simply trying to comfort himself by
                          attempting to validate his belief in the power of his beloved
                          mahanta, but in so doing, he actually turned his mahanta into an
                          agent for the kal. Of course, those of us who view Klemp and his org
                          as a cult, see this as the bigger picture; but of course, we know
                          Klemp has no powers to control others or to orchestrate such worldly
                          events! However, scamming people into believing in a bogus religion
                          is definitely a conspiracy and as such has long range negative
                          effects on those who fall for the scam until they, like us (former
                          eckists) eventually come to recognize their own gulliability in
                          being duped by the eck lies and deceptions. The realization of our
                          gulliability is an awareness that will lead people, including some
                          eckists eventually, to higher consciousness. The ties that
                          unbind and liberate us back to being free thinkers and masters of
                          our fate!

                          Bringing our experiences and what we have gleaned from our "eck"
                          experiences in posts to this site serve the purpose of helping
                          others confused and questioning the eck leadership and org to come
                          to this greater awareness. For me, a strong sense of duty to share
                          my perspectives and experiences guides me to participate on this
                          site. Looking back, it is really funny to see how I fell for the eck
                          scam. I find it amusing as well as enlightening that it could happen
                          to me! : )

                          BTW, welcome Makizor and Victorious Traveler for joining our group!

                          I've attached the earlier posts so one can easily access what was
                          posted previously!

                          Mish

                          Prometheus wrote:

                          It seems that Klemp's Connection (as Peter points out) to the
                          Negative Events of 9/11/2001 do connect HK to the Kal! However,
                          while ECKists are supposed to pay attention to details they are Not
                          to see Negative connections to their Mahanta. This is the Catch-22
                          rule that Klemp lives by. Of course, the Catch-22 rule was created
                          by the Kal. Klemp, Gross, and Twitchell's Eckankar can't stand up to
                          the Truth. Those Eckists who continue to believe these distortions
                          and close their eyes and minds to Truth are only fooling themselves.

                          Prometheus

                          mishmisha wrote:

                          Hi, All!
                          I thought I would bring this post back to the front page since we
                          are on the eve of the 5th year anniversary since the devastating
                          attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001.
                          As a further note, I have read some discussions by eckists who
                          believe that no eckists perished in these attacks, as they were
                          delayed or had changes of plans that kept them away from their jobs
                          in the WTC and the Pentagon that day--they believe this is because
                          eckists were protected by the mahanta. However, how do eckists
                          account for the stories of other non-eckists who also did not go to
                          work that day or were late, etc. and they too were spared the
                          horrors of the day?? I have friends whose son and daughter-in-law
                          would have been in the area, if not in the WTC that fateful day, but
                          they had car trouble and were at a dealership looking to buy a new
                          car. These are Christians who know nothing about eckankar or the
                          mahanta. If no eckists were at all at the WTC or the Pentagon that
                          day, I rather think it would be more because no eckists worked at
                          those places in 2001! After all, eckists are quite a minority,
                          religiously speaking--quite the minority in more ways than one! Just
                          a small school of small fish in a very large pond!: )

                          Below is the repost in which another eckist saw a connection between
                          Harold Klemp (a twelve year cycle) and the terrorist attacks, which
                          then asks the question, "Is Harold Klemp a Terrorist?" LOL!

                          Hi, All!
                          I just read a couple of interesting posts (kinda interesting, that
                          is) on an eck chat site. One eckist came to an "awesome
                          realization." Here's his post:


                          ********************************************************************

                          "I just came to an Awesome Realization this morning. I was watching
                          the Temple of Eck video one last time before returning it to my
                          local Eck Center during a Satsang Class I'm attending. Toward the
                          end of the tape Something Caught My Eye that I Almost Missed and
                          Might Have Regarded Only Casually, BUT I Reversed The Tape to see it
                          again. It was the Date that Sri Harold Broke Ground for the Temple--
                          SEPTEMBER 11, 1989. The narrator stated the Time as 10:30 am (which
                          would be Central Time Daylight Time in Minnesota).

                          This is Exactly 12 Years Before the Events Surrounding the Attack on
                          the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center Took Place. The First
                          Plane Hit at 8:46 am and the Second at 9:02 am Eastern daylight Time
                          (which is 1 hour later than Central Time). The First Tower Fell at
                          10:05 am and the Second at 10:28 am. (Source:
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001 attacks)

                          Exactly Twelve Years After Sri Harold Klemp Pierced the Earth with
                          his Shovel, the Second Plane Had Hit its Tower 28 Minutes Earlier
                          and the First Tower was to Fall 28 minutes Later.

                          I'm Just Reporting the Facts. I can't help but entertain various
                          interpretations, but will keep them to myself for now as they might
                          interfere with the significance that any of you might see." [My caps]


                          *********************************************************************
                          ME: It seems this eckist is trying to tie the attack on the World
                          Trade Center to his beloved mahanta! LOL! Well, I guess if there is
                          a connection with HK piercing the earth with a shovel 12 years
                          earlier to the 9-11-2001 tragedy, then I guess we might need to
                          label HK as a terrorist?? I mean did he have a part in the death of
                          thousands of people, was he a part of the conspiracy to bring the
                          Twin Towers down? I wonder if HK knows Osama bin Laden personally?
                          Perhaps, Osama bin Laden is yet another eck master--not mentioned
                          with the ones in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" book, but perhaps
                          there will be a story about him in the next master's book, along
                          with further promotion of Joan being an eck master in training to
                          become co-L.E.M. : )

                          Well, more importantly, though, I have to wonder what is going
                          through this eckist's mind in trying to link one thing to another,
                          by applying the eck beliefs in the cycle of twelves. Interesting how
                          people want to attach significance of important historical dates to
                          their belief systems, i.e. eckankar. HK and his mighty powerful
                          shovel began a course of destruction for what purpose?? Just more
                          delusion building on delusion IMO! : )

                          *********************************************************************
                          Another eckist responded to this post:

                          "Most of the Temple tour guides are aware of this. The cycles of 12
                          are apparently very powerful. Can't say much more than that because
                          I don't really understand it that well, myself. . . . "


                          *********************************************************************

                          ME: I would imagine it is difficult for eckists to understand the
                          ways of their master--a master who goes off on a temporary postal
                          worker just doing his job and who calls disgruntled eckists losers.
                          Now we have the 9-11-2001 terrorist connection! Pretty scary
                          mahanta! LOL!

                          Mish
                        • Elizabeth
                          ... *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn t all that knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he wouldn t be worried
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 14, 2006
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                            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                            > protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through
                            > Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World Wide
                            > Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                            > This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                            > Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!
                            >
                            >

                            *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all that
                            knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                            wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show up
                            at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                          • prometheus_973
                            Hi Liz, Actually the Metal Detectors and bag searches didn t happen until after 9/11/2001. It doesn t have anything to do with people standing up to shout out
                            Message 13 of 16 , Sep 14, 2006
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                              Hi Liz,
                              Actually the Metal Detectors and bag searches didn't happen until
                              after 9/11/2001. It doesn't have anything to do with people standing
                              up to shout out and disrupt his talks. I've seen that happen before
                              and people could do that anyway with or without the other security
                              (fear) features. Besides, why would anyone want to harm Klemp AFTER
                              9/11 if they never tried BEFORE 9/11? The Security is for Klemp and
                              nobody else! BUT, why should HK be afraid? Maybe he's fearful and
                              paranoid because he's always been rather anti-social and reclusive?

                              Yes, it's true that Klemp has No real Spiritual Powers except in the
                              deluded minds of his followers/servants and in the false teachings
                              of the first Scammer Paul Twitchell. Klemp is very controlling,
                              unknowing and unloving, although, he'd never admit to any of this
                              due to his inflated ego and stubborn narrow-minded nature.

                              Look for some 09/2006 H.I. Letter information coming soon!

                              Prometheus

                              Elizabeth wrote:
                              Prometheus wrote:

                              What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                              protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through
                              Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World Wide
                              Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                              This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                              Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!

                              *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all that
                              knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                              wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show up
                              at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                            • mishmisha9
                              Hi, All! I think as well that these actions demonstrate fear and it trickles down to the chelas--just another fear tactic. But who would really care that much
                              Message 14 of 16 , Sep 15, 2006
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                                Hi, All!

                                I think as well that these actions demonstrate fear and it trickles
                                down to the chelas--just another fear tactic. But who would really
                                care that much about a miniscule religion like eckankar and its
                                little godman to threaten it??? It's just a bunch of nonsense to try
                                to look important and to also make chelas jump through more hoops,
                                like little circus animals really! : )

                                But I have to admit, it would be fun to witness someone stand up and
                                shout at Klemp when he's giving one of his silly talks! Now, that
                                would be interesting . . . to see how Klemp would handle it. Well, I
                                guess, it's his show so one needs to be polite or not be there at
                                all! Yep, I'm not going to the EWWS this year, again! LOL!

                                Mish

                                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Liz,
                                > Actually the Metal Detectors and bag searches didn't happen until
                                > after 9/11/2001. It doesn't have anything to do with people
                                standing
                                > up to shout out and disrupt his talks. I've seen that happen
                                before
                                > and people could do that anyway with or without the other security
                                > (fear) features. Besides, why would anyone want to harm Klemp
                                AFTER
                                > 9/11 if they never tried BEFORE 9/11? The Security is for Klemp
                                and
                                > nobody else! BUT, why should HK be afraid? Maybe he's fearful and
                                > paranoid because he's always been rather anti-social and
                                reclusive?
                                >
                                > Yes, it's true that Klemp has No real Spiritual Powers except in
                                the
                                > deluded minds of his followers/servants and in the false teachings
                                > of the first Scammer Paul Twitchell. Klemp is very controlling,
                                > unknowing and unloving, although, he'd never admit to any of this
                                > due to his inflated ego and stubborn narrow-minded nature.
                                >
                                > Look for some 09/2006 H.I. Letter information coming soon!
                                >
                                > Prometheus
                                >
                                > Elizabeth wrote:
                                > Prometheus wrote:
                                >
                                > What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                                > protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go
                                through
                                > Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World
                                Wide
                                > Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                                > This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                                > Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!
                                >
                                > *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all
                                that
                                > knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                                > wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show
                                up
                                > at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                                >
                              • prometheus_973
                                ECKists are preparing to make an outer pilgrimage to the 2006 EWWS. Why? And, are there Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the other Golden Wisdom Temples on
                                Message 15 of 16 , Oct 7, 2006
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                                  ECKists are preparing to make an outer pilgrimage to the 2006 EWWS.
                                  Why? And, are there Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the other
                                  Golden Wisdom Temples on the physical Plane or on the "inner" at the
                                  other Lower Plane Golden Wisdom Temples of ECK??

                                  Hi Liz, (revised)
                                  Actually the Metal Detectors and Bag Searches didn't happen until
                                  After 9/11/2001. It doesn't have anything to do with people standing
                                  up to shout out and disrupt his talks. I've seen that happen before
                                  and they were led out to the hallway... no big deal really.
                                  Sometimes normal/loyal ECKists will just get a little more out of
                                  balance at these Seminars and tempers flare, etc. Also,
                                  ECKists/people could shout out anyway with or without the security
                                  (fear) features. Besides, why would anyone want to harm Klemp (AFTER
                                  9/11) if they never tried BEFORE (9/11)? There was much more
                                  animosity and hurt feelings around 1983-1984 when Gross (the 972nd
                                  LEM/Mahanta) was being mistreated by Klemp and Company.

                                  The Security is for Klemp and nobody else! This is why Metal
                                  Detectors and Bag Searches are Only done when he is to speak in the
                                  Main Hall.

                                  On another note: Why are there searches at the Temple of ECK?
                                  ECKists can't bring bags in with them on the Temple tours! Are
                                  Eckists searched at every ECK Worship Service or just during the
                                  Temple Tours? WHY? Why the fear? 99.9% of these people are ECKists!
                                  This was never done before 9/11/2001.

                                  Why should HK, the LEM/Mahanta, be afraid? HK's fearful and paranoid
                                  because he's always been rather anti-social, reclusive, and
                                  judgmental of others. He's an idiot and a scammer! Lately, I think
                                  Klemp has been worried about that Negative Karma he's built up over
                                  the years. The rationalizing about being the "fix" as a pseudo
                                  saviour/master for ECKists to follow doesn't mean a thing any
                                  longer. Klemp can no longer fool even himself about the real Truth!

                                  Yes, it's true that Klemp has No real Spiritual Powers, except, in
                                  the deluded minds of his followers/servants and in the false
                                  teachings of the first Scammer Paul Twitchell. Klemp is very
                                  controlling, unknowing and unloving, although, he'd never admit to
                                  any of this due to his inflated ego and stubborn narrow-minded
                                  nature.

                                  Prometheus

                                  Elizabeth wrote:
                                  Prometheus wrote:

                                  What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                                  protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go through
                                  Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World Wide
                                  Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                                  This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                                  Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!

                                  *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all that
                                  knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                                  wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show up
                                  at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                                • pretujari
                                  Hi All, There s an African proverb which states that A scared man runs away when there is no one after him Pretujari ... EWWS. ... the ... standing ...
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Oct 7, 2006
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                                    Hi All,
                                    There's an African proverb which states that 'A scared man runs away
                                    when there is no one after him"

                                    Pretujari

                                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                                    <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > ECKists are preparing to make an outer pilgrimage to the 2006
                                    EWWS.
                                    > Why? And, are there Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the other
                                    > Golden Wisdom Temples on the physical Plane or on the "inner" at
                                    the
                                    > other Lower Plane Golden Wisdom Temples of ECK??
                                    >
                                    > Hi Liz, (revised)
                                    > Actually the Metal Detectors and Bag Searches didn't happen until
                                    > After 9/11/2001. It doesn't have anything to do with people
                                    standing
                                    > up to shout out and disrupt his talks. I've seen that happen
                                    before
                                    > and they were led out to the hallway... no big deal really.
                                    > Sometimes normal/loyal ECKists will just get a little more out of
                                    > balance at these Seminars and tempers flare, etc. Also,
                                    > ECKists/people could shout out anyway with or without the security
                                    > (fear) features. Besides, why would anyone want to harm Klemp
                                    (AFTER
                                    > 9/11) if they never tried BEFORE (9/11)? There was much more
                                    > animosity and hurt feelings around 1983-1984 when Gross (the 972nd
                                    > LEM/Mahanta) was being mistreated by Klemp and Company.
                                    >
                                    > The Security is for Klemp and nobody else! This is why Metal
                                    > Detectors and Bag Searches are Only done when he is to speak in
                                    the
                                    > Main Hall.
                                    >
                                    > On another note: Why are there searches at the Temple of ECK?
                                    > ECKists can't bring bags in with them on the Temple tours! Are
                                    > Eckists searched at every ECK Worship Service or just during the
                                    > Temple Tours? WHY? Why the fear? 99.9% of these people are
                                    ECKists!
                                    > This was never done before 9/11/2001.
                                    >
                                    > Why should HK, the LEM/Mahanta, be afraid? HK's fearful and
                                    paranoid
                                    > because he's always been rather anti-social, reclusive, and
                                    > judgmental of others. He's an idiot and a scammer! Lately, I think
                                    > Klemp has been worried about that Negative Karma he's built up
                                    over
                                    > the years. The rationalizing about being the "fix" as a pseudo
                                    > saviour/master for ECKists to follow doesn't mean a thing any
                                    > longer. Klemp can no longer fool even himself about the real
                                    Truth!
                                    >
                                    > Yes, it's true that Klemp has No real Spiritual Powers, except, in
                                    > the deluded minds of his followers/servants and in the false
                                    > teachings of the first Scammer Paul Twitchell. Klemp is very
                                    > controlling, unknowing and unloving, although, he'd never admit to
                                    > any of this due to his inflated ego and stubborn narrow-minded
                                    > nature.
                                    >
                                    > Prometheus
                                    >
                                    > Elizabeth wrote:
                                    > Prometheus wrote:
                                    >
                                    > What does Klemp the LEM/Mahanta have to fear? Doesn't he give his
                                    > protection to ECKists? Why then do ECKists still need to go
                                    through
                                    > Metal Detectors and have their bags searched, at the ECK World
                                    Wide
                                    > Seminar (EWWS), before going into the Main Hall for Klemp's talks?
                                    > This is more proof that shows Klemp is Not what he claims to be!
                                    > Eckists are very afraid... of the Truth!
                                    >
                                    > *** A good question! The answer might be that Klemp isn't all
                                    that
                                    > knowing and powerful God Man he claims to be. If he was than he
                                    > wouldn't be worried about ex eckist or whom ever, that might show
                                    up
                                    > at the WW to infiltrate his little organization, and cause trouble.
                                    >
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