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Eckankar - Ask the Master - June 2005 - The Mystic World

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  • prometheus_973
    This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying, implying, or Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is saying. Also, I disagree
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 6 5:02 PM
      This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying, implying, or
      Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is
      saying. Also, I disagree that "A surprising number of chelas missed
      his article." This, also, is an imagined assumption. The truth is
      that Klemp really didn't take a stand or say much of anything to get
      excited about. It was a typical ho-hum response by a anti-social
      farmboy/preacher wannabe who flew under the radar and rode in on the
      coat-tails of two scammers that also claimed to be saviors.

      ********************************************************************

      AN ECK SLIDE SHOW FOR MEMBERS ONLY:

      "A Warning . . . . .
      In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of the
      massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas missed
      his article.

      Never before. . .
      The Master has never come out with such a strong message. But as
      always he offered a solution: 'Only love and service' can make a
      difference, he said. 'The future is in your hands and depends upon
      you, and others like you' added Sri Harold. (Ask the Master, page 5,
      June 2005 Mystic World)

      ss - Sun Valley, CA"

      *********************************************************************
      ASK THE MASTER - JUNE 2005 - THE MYSTIC WORLD OF ECKANKAR

      Q: "We now have the ECKANKAR Spiritual Center on the same ground as
      the Temple of ECK, the major ECK seminars in Minneapolis, and even
      more focus on Vahana work in the RESA structure."

      1.) "How will that affect ECKANKAR and the life of the chelas all
      over the world--now and in the future?"

      2.) "And what about the world in general?"


      Me: It seems to me that Klemp is isolating himself and Eckankar.
      Instead of spreading out or reaching out through travel to various
      cities Klemp is having everything confined to the Minneapolis area.
      The volunteer Vahana effort is just a way of giving "busy work"
      (trainings, classes, intros, discussions, making plans, organizing,
      etc.) so that Eckists will continue to live in the future versus the
      now, and remain distracted and tied to the promise of God
      Realization through Initiation and position. Anway, let's see how
      Klemp answers these two questions.

      HK: "Watch to see how this plays out. The future is in your hands
      and depends upon you and others like you."

      Me: How long does it take to "play out?" Klemp has been the
      LEM/Mahanta since 1981! What does HK mean by the future being "in
      your hands and depends upon you and others like you?" Are Eckists
      supposed to be pro-active for world peace, recycle, use less energy,
      or is their higher vibratory rate (consciousness) going to raise
      world consciousness? Will having more HU Chants raise world
      consciousness?

      HK: "Yes, there is a great spiritual significance in that the new
      ECKANKAR spiritual Center joins the ECK Temple and chapel on the ECK
      campus."

      Me: Okay, what is this "great spiritual significance?" Please
      explain this and give examples! Also, I always thought that the true
      Seat of Power was where ever the LEM/Mahanta resided - otherwise
      these are just buildings. What was HK's home address again? : )

      HK: "Yet that is hardly the beginning and the end of it. Nor is the
      fact that this is the Year of the ECK Missionary."

      Me: Okay, nothing much said here either. BTW - How did last year
      (Year of the Eck Missionary) turn out? What were the results
      compared to previous years? Because there should be some great
      improvements with the ESC, Temple, chapel, World Wide Seminar, and
      Year of the Missionary all bunched together - right?

      HK: "Each element is certainly an important part of the whole, BUT
      only love and service will make any success come true. So it's up to
      you (and you, and you)."

      Me: Okay, so was there enough love and service in 2005 to make the
      Year of the Missionary a success compared to previous years? It
      would be nice to know what the results were and how much donation
      money (and how many donated service hours per Vahana) it takes to
      bring in a new member. Is it now something like $50 dollars and 25
      hours of service per Vahana = one new member? Was this worse than
      last year or better? Which local areas spent the most or least money
      and/or hours per new member?

      HK: "How will this affect the world and all within it?"

      Me: Well, this is the question you've been dancing around!

      HK: "A quickening of the spiritual currents is in the works. The
      purification of Souls will speed up."

      Me: Oh, so the LEM/Mahanta will now start to uplift the world
      consciousness because the ESC, Temple, chapel, EWWS, and because of
      the success of the Vahana effort (finally) and because of all of
      those ECK High Initiates and their Higher Consciousness!

      HK: "The table of politics, economics, and order in society are due
      to turn upside down. There will be unrest of the deepest kind. BUT
      you will feel at peace."

      Me: What! This seems to be a very negative view of the world and of
      life in general. So tell me again of the "great spiritual
      significance" of the bundled together Eck compound. Is Klemp going
      to build high rise condos for Eckists on the Eckankar property and
      wall it in! Will it be wholly self-sufficient with a natural foods
      grocery etc., etc.? What will that cost, when will ground breaking
      begin, what are the qualifications and restrictions to get on the
      list? It's a good thing that (at least) Eckists won't have to worry
      and will "feel at peace."

      HK: "Something will always be boiling over in human affairs. Yet
      sanctuary, peace, and contentment are in ready supply in the higher
      states of consciousness."

      Me: So does this mean that there won't be an Eck compound and high
      rise condos near the ESC or Temple? Is happiness and peace just a
      state of mind? How about the rest of the world for all those
      Vahanas - what are they to do? Ah, just close your eyes to it all
      and HU. Don't worry about the suffering of the non-believers (non-
      Eckists) it's their karma! Don't worry about the animals either!
      It's karmic! The LEM/Mahanta can't prevent the Kali Yuga or can he?
      Can the love of the Mahanta the incarnation of Sugmad intervene?
      Well, if he was actually all that he claims he could prevent war or
      his presence (and his H.I.'s) could even raise world consciousness -
      BUT, Klemp's not really who or what he claims.

      HK: "The Spiritual Exercises of ECK are your means to enter them.
      They will be your solace. They are the spring-board to love divine,
      to a love that excels all other things. Take heart, the sun shines
      on all who love God, the ECK, and the Mahanta."

      Me: What happened to Sugmad versus God? There is a difference (see
      pages 385-386 in HK's Autobiography)! And, which "sun" does Klemp
      talk about? The one in this small insignificant solar system! It
      seems that Klemp is once again encouraging Eckists to feel and
      behave as elitists and to place themselves upon pedestals above
      others.

      Yes, just do the S.E. of Eck and all will be well in your delusional
      and selfish little minds he instructs. Where did Klemp give true
      direction or current answers for living in this here and now?
      Conflict has always been with mankind, however, consciousness is
      slowly increasing. Klemp paints a bleak picture as does other
      religious fundamentalists who are anticipating the Rapture or
      Armageddon or 72 virgins some other sort of nonsense to exclude
      others. Talk is cheap for HK and this type of bible thumper. They
      know nothing of true Love or of Spirit. Religious leaders and new
      saviors are in the business of seeking followers to trick and scam
      for whatever means they see fit and justified to use them for.

      Many chelas have heard Klemp's pitiful side-stepping of questions
      before and this is another reason for the lack concern. Eckists have
      become passive. They did not "miss" this article as the Sun Valley
      chela stated. really, is it any wonder that Vahana efforts are
      difficult to get off the ground when Klemp encourages Eckists to
      hide in a cave and HU themselves to sleep as a solution to the
      upheavel in the world! Eckists should ask themselves how they differ
      from a pebble. Is the whole Vahana effort to get people to use the
      HU as a sort of self-centered mind numbing drug, or to bring in more
      annual $$$ memberships? Vahanas are like drug pushers! What good is
      Higher Consciousness if it is not used to benefit mankind and and if
      it does not raise world or universal consciousness!?

      Klemp's answers should really make Eckists re-think the position
      Eckankar is taking in this world.

      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      Klemp s take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT s birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled The Year of Giving a.k.a. You Giving and Me
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 15 12:55 PM
        Klemp's take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT's
        birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled "The Year of Giving"
        a.k.a. "You Giving and Me Taking" LOL! So, according to HK "only
        love and service can make a difference" to Eckists when looking at
        the upheavals in the world. This is the Eck Spiritual Exercise of
        Burying the Head into the Sand or de-Nile (ancient secret H.I.
        technique).

        Yes, this is the phoney Mahanta's phoney "Gift." Interesting that
        Klemp uses this quote from the Shariyat Book One (in the current
        EWWS literature): "The words of the Mahanta alone can change the
        world, completely and irrevocably." How do mundane words directed to
        only Eckists or to potential "paying" members mean anything to the
        world or help to make changes in consciousness? How do "loser"
        comments to his chelas spread the message of love? Anyway, Klump's
        09/2006 front page Mystic World sci-fi article "Oh, You've Come So
        Far!" a.k.a. "You've Been a Sucker For So Long!" will be coming here
        to ESA soon!

        Prometheus


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying, implying,
        or
        > Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is
        > saying. Also, I disagree that "A surprising number of chelas
        missed
        > his article." This, also, is an imagined assumption. The truth is
        > that Klemp really didn't take a stand or say much of anything to
        get
        > excited about. It was a typical ho-hum response by a anti-social
        > farmboy/preacher wannabe who flew under the radar and rode in on
        the
        > coat-tails of two scammers that also claimed to be saviors.
        >
        >
        ********************************************************************
        >
        > AN ECK SLIDE SHOW FOR MEMBERS ONLY:
        >
        > "A Warning . . . . .
        > In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of
        the
        > massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas
        missed
        > his article.
        >
        > Never before. . .
        > The Master has never come out with such a strong message. But as
        > always he offered a solution: 'Only love and service' can make a
        > difference, he said. 'The future is in your hands and depends upon
        > you, and others like you' added Sri Harold. (Ask the Master, page
        5,
        > June 2005 Mystic World)
        >
        > ss - Sun Valley, CA"
        >
        >
        *********************************************************************
        > ASK THE MASTER - JUNE 2005 - THE MYSTIC WORLD OF ECKANKAR
        >
        > Q: "We now have the ECKANKAR Spiritual Center on the same ground
        as
        > the Temple of ECK, the major ECK seminars in Minneapolis, and even
        > more focus on Vahana work in the RESA structure."
        >
        > 1.) "How will that affect ECKANKAR and the life of the chelas all
        > over the world--now and in the future?"
        >
        > 2.) "And what about the world in general?"
        >
        >
        > Me: It seems to me that Klemp is isolating himself and Eckankar.
        > Instead of spreading out or reaching out through travel to various
        > cities Klemp is having everything confined to the Minneapolis
        area.
        > The volunteer Vahana effort is just a way of giving "busy work"
        > (trainings, classes, intros, discussions, making plans,
        organizing,
        > etc.) so that Eckists will continue to live in the future versus
        the
        > now, and remain distracted and tied to the promise of God
        > Realization through Initiation and position. Anway, let's see how
        > Klemp answers these two questions.
        >
        > HK: "Watch to see how this plays out. The future is in your hands
        > and depends upon you and others like you."
        >
        > Me: How long does it take to "play out?" Klemp has been the
        > LEM/Mahanta since 1981! What does HK mean by the future being "in
        > your hands and depends upon you and others like you?" Are Eckists
        > supposed to be pro-active for world peace, recycle, use less
        energy,
        > or is their higher vibratory rate (consciousness) going to raise
        > world consciousness? Will having more HU Chants raise world
        > consciousness?
        >
        > HK: "Yes, there is a great spiritual significance in that the new
        > ECKANKAR spiritual Center joins the ECK Temple and chapel on the
        ECK
        > campus."
        >
        > Me: Okay, what is this "great spiritual significance?" Please
        > explain this and give examples! Also, I always thought that the
        true
        > Seat of Power was where ever the LEM/Mahanta resided - otherwise
        > these are just buildings. What was HK's home address again? : )
        >
        > HK: "Yet that is hardly the beginning and the end of it. Nor is
        the
        > fact that this is the Year of the ECK Missionary."
        >
        > Me: Okay, nothing much said here either. BTW - How did last year
        > (Year of the Eck Missionary) turn out? What were the results
        > compared to previous years? Because there should be some great
        > improvements with the ESC, Temple, chapel, World Wide Seminar, and
        > Year of the Missionary all bunched together - right?
        >
        > HK: "Each element is certainly an important part of the whole, BUT
        > only love and service will make any success come true. So it's up
        to
        > you (and you, and you)."
        >
        > Me: Okay, so was there enough love and service in 2005 to make the
        > Year of the Missionary a success compared to previous years? It
        > would be nice to know what the results were and how much donation
        > money (and how many donated service hours per Vahana) it takes to
        > bring in a new member. Is it now something like $50 dollars and 25
        > hours of service per Vahana = one new member? Was this worse than
        > last year or better? Which local areas spent the most or least
        money
        > and/or hours per new member?
        >
        > HK: "How will this affect the world and all within it?"
        >
        > Me: Well, this is the question you've been dancing around!
        >
        > HK: "A quickening of the spiritual currents is in the works. The
        > purification of Souls will speed up."
        >
        > Me: Oh, so the LEM/Mahanta will now start to uplift the world
        > consciousness because the ESC, Temple, chapel, EWWS, and because
        of
        > the success of the Vahana effort (finally) and because of all of
        > those ECK High Initiates and their Higher Consciousness!
        >
        > HK: "The table of politics, economics, and order in society are
        due
        > to turn upside down. There will be unrest of the deepest kind. BUT
        > you will feel at peace."
        >
        > Me: What! This seems to be a very negative view of the world and
        of
        > life in general. So tell me again of the "great spiritual
        > significance" of the bundled together Eck compound. Is Klemp going
        > to build high rise condos for Eckists on the Eckankar property and
        > wall it in! Will it be wholly self-sufficient with a natural foods
        > grocery etc., etc.? What will that cost, when will ground breaking
        > begin, what are the qualifications and restrictions to get on the
        > list? It's a good thing that (at least) Eckists won't have to
        worry
        > and will "feel at peace."
        >
        > HK: "Something will always be boiling over in human affairs. Yet
        > sanctuary, peace, and contentment are in ready supply in the
        higher
        > states of consciousness."
        >
        > Me: So does this mean that there won't be an Eck compound and high
        > rise condos near the ESC or Temple? Is happiness and peace just a
        > state of mind? How about the rest of the world for all those
        > Vahanas - what are they to do? Ah, just close your eyes to it all
        > and HU. Don't worry about the suffering of the non-believers (non-
        > Eckists) it's their karma! Don't worry about the animals either!
        > It's karmic! The LEM/Mahanta can't prevent the Kali Yuga or can
        he?
        > Can the love of the Mahanta the incarnation of Sugmad intervene?
        > Well, if he was actually all that he claims he could prevent war
        or
        > his presence (and his H.I.'s) could even raise world
        consciousness -
        > BUT, Klemp's not really who or what he claims.
        >
        > HK: "The Spiritual Exercises of ECK are your means to enter them.
        > They will be your solace. They are the spring-board to love
        divine,
        > to a love that excels all other things. Take heart, the sun shines
        > on all who love God, the ECK, and the Mahanta."
        >
        > Me: What happened to Sugmad versus God? There is a difference (see
        > pages 385-386 in HK's Autobiography)! And, which "sun" does Klemp
        > talk about? The one in this small insignificant solar system! It
        > seems that Klemp is once again encouraging Eckists to feel and
        > behave as elitists and to place themselves upon pedestals above
        > others.
        >
        > Yes, just do the S.E. of Eck and all will be well in your
        delusional
        > and selfish little minds he instructs. Where did Klemp give true
        > direction or current answers for living in this here and now?
        > Conflict has always been with mankind, however, consciousness is
        > slowly increasing. Klemp paints a bleak picture as does other
        > religious fundamentalists who are anticipating the Rapture or
        > Armageddon or 72 virgins some other sort of nonsense to exclude
        > others. Talk is cheap for HK and this type of bible thumper. They
        > know nothing of true Love or of Spirit. Religious leaders and new
        > saviors are in the business of seeking followers to trick and scam
        > for whatever means they see fit and justified to use them for.
        >
        > Many chelas have heard Klemp's pitiful side-stepping of questions
        > before and this is another reason for the lack concern. Eckists
        have
        > become passive. They did not "miss" this article as the Sun Valley
        > chela stated. really, is it any wonder that Vahana efforts are
        > difficult to get off the ground when Klemp encourages Eckists to
        > hide in a cave and HU themselves to sleep as a solution to the
        > upheavel in the world! Eckists should ask themselves how they
        differ
        > from a pebble. Is the whole Vahana effort to get people to use the
        > HU as a sort of self-centered mind numbing drug, or to bring in
        more
        > annual $$$ memberships? Vahanas are like drug pushers! What good
        is
        > Higher Consciousness if it is not used to benefit mankind and and
        if
        > it does not raise world or universal consciousness!?
        >
        > Klemp's answers should really make Eckists re-think the position
        > Eckankar is taking in this world.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • ctecvie
        Prometheus and all, so very funny and so very true (and Not so funny), too! :-) I guess whatever the chelas will do, it won t be enough! I wonder, too, how it
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 15 9:09 PM
          Prometheus and all,

          so very funny and so very true (and Not so funny), too! :-)
          I guess whatever the chelas will do, it won't be enough! I wonder,
          too, how it can be that words of the great guru to his paying
          membership (only 50.000 worldwide) can make a change. HK really
          loses it more and more.

          Ingrid

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Klemp's take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT's
          > birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled "The Year of Giving"
          > a.k.a. "You Giving and Me Taking" LOL! So, according to HK "only
          > love and service can make a difference" to Eckists when looking at
          > the upheavals in the world. This is the Eck Spiritual Exercise of
          > Burying the Head into the Sand or de-Nile (ancient secret H.I.
          > technique).
          >
          > Yes, this is the phoney Mahanta's phoney "Gift." Interesting that
          > Klemp uses this quote from the Shariyat Book One (in the current
          > EWWS literature): "The words of the Mahanta alone can change the
          > world, completely and irrevocably." How do mundane words directed
          >o
          > only Eckists or to potential "paying" members mean anything to the
          > world or help to make changes in consciousness? How do "loser"
          > comments to his chelas spread the message of love? Anyway, Klump's
          > 09/2006 front page Mystic World sci-fi article "Oh, You've Come So
          > Far!" a.k.a. "You've Been a Sucker For So Long!" will be coming
          >ere
          > to ESA soon!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > --- In
          EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
          > >
          > > This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying,
          implying,
          > or
          > > Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is
          > > saying. Also, I disagree that "A surprising number of chelas
          > missed
          > > his article." This, also, is an imagined assumption. The truth
          is
          > > that Klemp really didn't take a stand or say much of anything to
          > get
          > > excited about. It was a typical ho-hum response by a anti-social
          > > farmboy/preacher wannabe who flew under the radar and rode in on
          > the
          > > coat-tails of two scammers that also claimed to be saviors.
          > >
          > >
          >
          ********************************************************************
          > >
          > > AN ECK SLIDE SHOW FOR MEMBERS ONLY:
          > >
          > > "A Warning . . . . .
          > > In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of
          > the
          > > massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas
          > missed
          > > his article.
          > >
          > > Never before. . .
          > > The Master has never come out with such a strong message. But as
          > > always he offered a solution: 'Only love and service' can make a
          > > difference, he said. 'The future is in your hands and depends
          upon
          > > you, and others like you' added Sri Harold. (Ask the Master,
          page
          > 5,
          > > June 2005 Mystic World)
          > >
          > > ss - Sun Valley, CA"
          > >
          > >
          >
          *********************************************************************
          > > ASK THE MASTER - JUNE 2005 - THE MYSTIC WORLD OF ECKANKAR
          > >
          > > Q: "We now have the ECKANKAR Spiritual Center on the same ground
          > as
          > > the Temple of ECK, the major ECK seminars in Minneapolis, and
          even
          > > more focus on Vahana work in the RESA structure."
          > >
          > > 1.) "How will that affect ECKANKAR and the life of the chelas
          all
          > > over the world--now and in the future?"
          > >
          > > 2.) "And what about the world in general?"
          > >
          > >
          > > Me: It seems to me that Klemp is isolating himself and Eckankar.
          > > Instead of spreading out or reaching out through travel to
          various
          > > cities Klemp is having everything confined to the Minneapolis
          > area.
          > > The volunteer Vahana effort is just a way of giving "busy work"
          > > (trainings, classes, intros, discussions, making plans,
          > organizing,
          > > etc.) so that Eckists will continue to live in the future versus
          > the
          > > now, and remain distracted and tied to the promise of God
          > > Realization through Initiation and position. Anway, let's see
          how
          > > Klemp answers these two questions.
          > >
          > > HK: "Watch to see how this plays out. The future is in your
          hands
          > > and depends upon you and others like you."
          > >
          > > Me: How long does it take to "play out?" Klemp has been the
          > > LEM/Mahanta since 1981! What does HK mean by the future
          being "in
          > > your hands and depends upon you and others like you?" Are
          Eckists
          > > supposed to be pro-active for world peace, recycle, use less
          > energy,
          > > or is their higher vibratory rate (consciousness) going to raise
          > > world consciousness? Will having more HU Chants raise world
          > > consciousness?
          > >
          > > HK: "Yes, there is a great spiritual significance in that the
          new
          > > ECKANKAR spiritual Center joins the ECK Temple and chapel on the
          > ECK
          > > campus."
          > >
          > > Me: Okay, what is this "great spiritual significance?" Please
          > > explain this and give examples! Also, I always thought that the
          > true
          > > Seat of Power was where ever the LEM/Mahanta resided - otherwise
          > > these are just buildings. What was HK's home address again? : )
          > >
          > > HK: "Yet that is hardly the beginning and the end of it. Nor is
          > the
          > > fact that this is the Year of the ECK Missionary."
          > >
          > > Me: Okay, nothing much said here either. BTW - How did last year
          > > (Year of the Eck Missionary) turn out? What were the results
          > > compared to previous years? Because there should be some great
          > > improvements with the ESC, Temple, chapel, World Wide Seminar,
          and
          > > Year of the Missionary all bunched together - right?
          > >
          > > HK: "Each element is certainly an important part of the whole,
          BUT
          > > only love and service will make any success come true. So it's
          up
          > to
          > > you (and you, and you)."
          > >
          > > Me: Okay, so was there enough love and service in 2005 to make
          the
          > > Year of the Missionary a success compared to previous years? It
          > > would be nice to know what the results were and how much
          donation
          > > money (and how many donated service hours per Vahana) it takes
          to
          > > bring in a new member. Is it now something like $50 dollars and
          25
          > > hours of service per Vahana = one new member? Was this worse
          than
          > > last year or better? Which local areas spent the most or least
          > money
          > > and/or hours per new member?
          > >
          > > HK: "How will this affect the world and all within it?"
          > >
          > > Me: Well, this is the question you've been dancing around!
          > >
          > > HK: "A quickening of the spiritual currents is in the works. The
          > > purification of Souls will speed up."
          > >
          > > Me: Oh, so the LEM/Mahanta will now start to uplift the world
          > > consciousness because the ESC, Temple, chapel, EWWS, and because
          > of
          > > the success of the Vahana effort (finally) and because of all of
          > > those ECK High Initiates and their Higher Consciousness!
          > >
          > > HK: "The table of politics, economics, and order in society are
          > due
          > > to turn upside down. There will be unrest of the deepest kind.
          BUT
          > > you will feel at peace."
          > >
          > > Me: What! This seems to be a very negative view of the world and
          > of
          > > life in general. So tell me again of the "great spiritual
          > > significance" of the bundled together Eck compound. Is Klemp
          going
          > > to build high rise condos for Eckists on the Eckankar property
          and
          > > wall it in! Will it be wholly self-sufficient with a natural
          foods
          > > grocery etc., etc.? What will that cost, when will ground
          breaking
          > > begin, what are the qualifications and restrictions to get on
          the
          > > list? It's a good thing that (at least) Eckists won't have to
          > worry
          > > and will "feel at peace."
          > >
          > > HK: "Something will always be boiling over in human affairs. Yet
          > > sanctuary, peace, and contentment are in ready supply in the
          > higher
          > > states of consciousness."
          > >
          > > Me: So does this mean that there won't be an Eck compound and
          high
          > > rise condos near the ESC or Temple? Is happiness and peace just
          a
          > > state of mind? How about the rest of the world for all those
          > > Vahanas - what are they to do? Ah, just close your eyes to it
          all
          > > and HU. Don't worry about the suffering of the non-believers
          (non-
          > > Eckists) it's their karma! Don't worry about the animals either!
          > > It's karmic! The LEM/Mahanta can't prevent the Kali Yuga or can
          > he?
          > > Can the love of the Mahanta the incarnation of Sugmad intervene?
          > > Well, if he was actually all that he claims he could prevent war
          > or
          > > his presence (and his H.I.'s) could even raise world
          > consciousness -
          > > BUT, Klemp's not really who or what he claims.
          > >
          > > HK: "The Spiritual Exercises of ECK are your means to enter
          them.
          > > They will be your solace. They are the spring-board to love
          > divine,
          > > to a love that excels all other things. Take heart, the sun
          shines
          > > on all who love God, the ECK, and the Mahanta."
          > >
          > > Me: What happened to Sugmad versus God? There is a difference
          (see
          > > pages 385-386 in HK's Autobiography)! And, which "sun" does
          Klemp
          > > talk about? The one in this small insignificant solar system! It
          > > seems that Klemp is once again encouraging Eckists to feel and
          > > behave as elitists and to place themselves upon pedestals above
          > > others.
          > >
          > > Yes, just do the S.E. of Eck and all will be well in your
          > delusional
          > > and selfish little minds he instructs. Where did Klemp give true
          > > direction or current answers for living in this here and now?
          > > Conflict has always been with mankind, however, consciousness is
          > > slowly increasing. Klemp paints a bleak picture as does other
          > > religious fundamentalists who are anticipating the Rapture or
          > > Armageddon or 72 virgins some other sort of nonsense to exclude
          > > others. Talk is cheap for HK and this type of bible thumper.
          They
          > > know nothing of true Love or of Spirit. Religious leaders and
          new
          > > saviors are in the business of seeking followers to trick and
          scam
          > > for whatever means they see fit and justified to use them for.
          > >
          > > Many chelas have heard Klemp's pitiful side-stepping of
          questions
          > > before and this is another reason for the lack concern. Eckists
          > have
          > > become passive. They did not "miss" this article as the Sun
          Valley
          > > chela stated. really, is it any wonder that Vahana efforts are
          > > difficult to get off the ground when Klemp encourages Eckists to
          > > hide in a cave and HU themselves to sleep as a solution to the
          > > upheavel in the world! Eckists should ask themselves how they
          > differ
          > > from a pebble. Is the whole Vahana effort to get people to use
          the
          > > HU as a sort of self-centered mind numbing drug, or to bring in
          > more
          > > annual $$$ memberships? Vahanas are like drug pushers! What good
          > is
          > > Higher Consciousness if it is not used to benefit mankind and
          and
          > if
          > > it does not raise world or universal consciousness!?
          > >
          > > Klemp's answers should really make Eckists re-think the position
          > > Eckankar is taking in this world.
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Klemp s take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT s birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled The Year of Giving a.k.a. You Giving and Me
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 19 9:20 PM
            Klemp's take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT's
            birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled "The Year of Giving"
            a.k.a. "You Giving and Me Taking" LOL! So, according to HK "only
            love and service can make a difference" to Eckists when looking at
            the upheavals in the world. This is the Eck Spiritual Exercise of
            Burying the Head into the Sand or de-Nile (ancient secret H.I.
            technique).

            Yes, this is the phoney Mahanta's phoney "Gift." Interesting that
            Klemp uses this quote from the Shariyat Book One (in the current
            EWWS literature): "The words of the Mahanta alone can change the
            world, completely and irrevocably." How do mundane words directed to
            only Eckists or to potential "paying" members mean anything to the
            world or help to make changes in consciousness? How do "loser"
            comments to his chelas spread the message of love?

            This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying, implying,
            or Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is
            saying. Also, I disagree that "A surprising number of chelas missed
            his article." This, also, is an imagined assumption. The truth is
            that Klemp really didn't take a stand or say much of anything to
            get excited about. It was a typical ho-hum response by a anti-social
            farmboy/preacher wannabe who flew under the radar and rode in on
            the coat-tails of two scammers that also claimed to be saviors.


            ********************************************************************

            AN ECK SLIDE SHOW FOR MEMBERS ONLY:

            "A Warning . . . . .
            In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of the
            massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas missed
            his article.

            Never before. . .
            The Master has never come out with such a strong message. But as
            always he offered a solution: 'Only love and service' can make a
            difference, he said. 'The future is in your hands and depends upon
            you, and others like you' added Sri Harold. (Ask the Master, page 5,
            June 2005 Mystic World)

            ss - Sun Valley, CA"



            *********************************************************************

            ASK THE MASTER - JUNE 2005 - THE MYSTIC WORLD OF ECKANKAR

            Q: "We now have the ECKANKAR Spiritual Center on the same ground as
            the Temple of ECK, the major ECK seminars in Minneapolis, and even
            more focus on Vahana work in the RESA structure."

            1.) "How will that affect ECKANKAR and the life of the chelas all
            over the world--now and in the future?"

            2.) "And what about the world in general?"


            Me: It seems to me that Klemp is isolating himself and Eckankar.
            Instead of spreading out or reaching out through travel to various
            cities Klemp is having everything confined to the Minneapolis area.
            The volunteer Vahana effort is just a way of giving "busy work"
            (trainings, classes, intros, discussions, making plans, organizing,
            etc.) so that Eckists will continue to live in the future versus the
            now, and remain distracted and tied to the promise of God
            Realization through Initiation and position. Anway, let's see how
            Klemp answers these two questions.

            HK: "Watch to see how this plays out. The future is in your hands
            and depends upon you and others like you."

            Me: How long does it take to "play out?" Klemp has been the
            LEM/Mahanta since 1981! What does HK mean by the future being "in
            your hands and depends upon you and others like you?" Are Eckists
            supposed to be pro-active for world peace, recycle, use less energy,
            or is their higher vibratory rate (consciousness) going to raise
            world consciousness? Will having more HU Chants raise world
            consciousness?

            HK: "Yes, there is a great spiritual significance in that the new
            ECKANKAR spiritual Center joins the ECK Temple and chapel on the ECK
            campus."

            Me: Okay, what is this "great spiritual significance?" Please
            explain this and give examples! Also, I always thought that the
            true Seat of Power was where ever the LEM/Mahanta resided -
            otherwise these are just buildings. What was HK's home address
            again? : )

            HK: "Yet that is hardly the beginning and the end of it. Nor is the
            fact that this is the Year of the ECK Missionary."

            Me: Okay, nothing much said here either. BTW - How did last year
            (Year of the Eck Missionary) turn out? What were the results
            compared to previous years? Because there should be some great
            improvements with the ESC, Temple, chapel, World Wide Seminar, and
            Year of the Missionary all bunched together - right?

            HK: "Each element is certainly an important part of the whole, BUT
            only love and service will make any success come true. So it's up
            to you (and you, and you)."

            Me: Okay, so was there enough love and service in 2005 to make the
            Year of the Missionary a success compared to previous years? It
            would be nice to know what the results were and how much donation
            money (and how many donated service hours per Vahana) it takes to
            bring in a new member. Is it now something like $50 dollars and 25
            hours of service per Vahana = one new member? Was this worse than
            last year or better? Which local areas spent the most or least money
            and/or hours per new member?

            HK: "How will this affect the world and all within it?"

            Me: Well, this is the question you've been dancing around!

            HK: "A quickening of the spiritual currents is in the works. The
            purification of Souls will speed up."

            Me: Oh, so the LEM/Mahanta will now start to uplift the world
            consciousness because the ESC, Temple, chapel, EWWS, and because of
            the success of the Vahana effort (finally) and because of all of
            those ECK High Initiates and their Higher Consciousness!

            HK: "The table of politics, economics, and order in society are
            due to turn upside down. There will be unrest of the deepest kind.
            BUT you will feel at peace."

            Me: What! This seems to be a very negative view of the world and
            of life in general. So tell me again of the "great spiritual
            significance" of the bundled together Eck compound. Is Klemp going
            to build high rise condos for Eckists on the Eckankar property and
            wall it in! Will it be wholly self-sufficient with a natural foods
            grocery etc., etc.? What will that cost, when will ground breaking
            begin, what are the qualifications and restrictions to get on the
            list? It's a good thing that (at least) Eckists won't have to
            worry and will "feel at peace."

            HK: "Something will always be boiling over in human affairs. Yet
            sanctuary, peace, and contentment are in ready supply in the higher
            states of consciousness."

            Me: So does this mean that there won't be an Eck compound and high
            rise condos near the ESC or Temple? Is happiness and peace just a
            state of mind? How about the rest of the world for all those
            Vahanas - what are they to do? Ah, just close your eyes to it all
            and HU. Don't worry about the suffering of the non-believers (non-
            Eckists) it's their karma! Don't worry about the animals either!
            It's karmic! The LEM/Mahanta can't prevent the Kali Yuga or can
            he? Can the love of the Mahanta the incarnation of Sugmad intervene?
            Well, if he was actually all that he claims he could prevent war or
            his presence (and his H.I.'s) could even raise world consciousness -
            BUT, Klemp's not really who or what he claims.

            HK: "The Spiritual Exercises of ECK are your means to enter them.
            They will be your solace. They are the spring-board to love divine,
            to a love that excels all other things. Take heart, the sun shines
            on all who love God, the ECK, and the Mahanta."

            Me: What happened to Sugmad versus God? There is a difference (see
            pages 385-386 in HK's Autobiography)! And, which "sun" does Klemp
            talk about? The one in this small insignificant solar system! It
            seems that Klemp is once again encouraging Eckists to feel and
            behave as elitists and to place themselves upon pedestals above
            others.

            Yes, just do the S.E. of Eck and all will be well in your delusional
            and selfish little minds he instructs. Where did Klemp give true
            direction or current answers for living in this here and now?
            Conflict has always been with mankind, however, consciousness is
            slowly increasing. Klemp paints a bleak picture as does other
            religious fundamentalists who are anticipating the Rapture or
            Armageddon or 72 virgins some other sort of nonsense to exclude
            others. Talk is cheap for HK and this type of bible thumper. They
            know nothing of true Love or of Spirit. Religious leaders and new
            saviors are in the business of seeking followers to trick and scam
            for whatever means they see fit and justified to use them for.

            Many chelas have heard Klemp's pitiful side-stepping of questions
            before and this is another reason for the lack concern. Eckists
            have become passive. They did not "miss" this article as the Sun
            Valley chela stated. really, is it any wonder that Vahana efforts
            are difficult to get off the ground when Klemp encourages Eckists to
            hide in a cave and HU themselves to sleep as a solution to the
            upheavel in the world! Eckists should ask themselves how they differ
            from a pebble. Is the whole Vahana effort to get people to use the
            HU as a sort of self-centered mind numbing drug, or to bring in more
            annual $$$ memberships? Vahanas are like drug pushers! What good is
            Higher Consciousness if it is not used to benefit mankind and and if
            it does not raise world or universal consciousness!?

            Klemp's answers should really make Eckists re-think the position
            Eckankar is taking in this world.

            Prometheus
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