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Re: An ECK Slide Show for Members Only!

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Mish, Just thought I d share some comments on the Eck crap. mishmisha wrote: I am unable to put up a direct link to the slide show, but here s the text of
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 3, 2006
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      Hi Mish,
      Just thought I'd share some comments on the Eck crap.

      mishmisha wrote:
      I am unable to put up a direct link to the slide show, but here's
      the text of the entire show:

      ECK SLIDE SHOW:
      "Sri Paul Twitchell laid the foundation for the outer teachings of
      ECKANKAR. It was a formidable task fraught with many challenges and
      difficulties BUT with the help of a dedicated group of Chelas Paulji
      was able to fulfill his mission."

      ***Yep! The liar and "rascal" laid the foundation for the scam to
      continue under Gross and Klemp for sure! The task of fooling people
      was great, but people's desire to find a "Master" or savior outside
      of our true Selves is even greater!

      "...In spite of many health challenges Sri Harold Klemp soldiers on
      in the true spirit of the Vairagi ECK Masters. Quietly serving.
      Never complaining. It would be so easy for him to shed his physical
      body and leave this world BUT he stays on because of his love for
      you, for me and for the world. Can you think of a greater sacrifice?"

      ***Actually, HK was an "airman" rather that a soldier! LOL! Perhaps
      more Eckists should emulate their master mahanta and "quietly" serve
      in the recluse of their hovels/huts/caves/mansions or whatever! They
      just need to stay away from the distraction of: the Internet, TV,
      phones/fax, radio, newspapers and magazines, cars, planes, trains,
      pets, and other people. Actually, Klemp is around 64 years old so he
      has already outlived Twit by one year. I wonder how old Darwin is?
      However, doesn't HK complain about his health? Sure he does! How
      else do we know about EMR's, special diets, and helath care
      practitioners and such. And, he stays on like we all do! And yes, I
      can think of hundreds who make a greater sacrifice than the idiot
      who leads Eckankar!



      "A Warning . . . . .

      In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of the
      massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas missed
      his article.

      Never before. . .

      The Master has never come out with such a strong message. BUT as
      always he offered a solution:

      Only love and service" can make a difference, he said. 'The future
      is in your hands and depends upon you, and others like you' added
      Sri Harold. (Ask the Master, page 5, June 2005 Mystic World)"

      ***I'll have to do a review on these two questions. Actually, the
      first person asks two questions and the second person asks four
      questions. What happened to the principle of the Threes? Did Klemp
      forget or just not care to bother with it?

      ***I did notice that Klemp did not respond to one of the questions
      posed by the second person. The question was: "In short, is it
      better to do one thing well than to do several things medium well?"

      ***Is this Eckist cooking steaks or what? Really though, this sounds
      like a person seeking confirmation that basically means take your
      time and get your ducks lined up, do a lot of planning, etc. and
      eventually the Eck will work it out for you. This is why everything
      takes so long in Eckankar! No one's in a hurry because there's
      really no place to go and no growth (for Eckankar or Eckists) taking
      place! It's all for show in order to get that next Initiation number
      or settler Position. How great to become a RESA and have
      that "Consciousness!" LOL! Ask Ford and dozens of others about that
      falsehood! Sorry, Eckankar is just another silly religion! However,
      I will have to admit that at least Eckists are doing less physical
      harm to others than the members of the world's major religions.

      Prometheus
    • christel_heine2003
      ... yes, I agree. Yet the time of Eckankar is not in the Middle Ages where the only way seems to be fighting with weapons. For me the fight against souls which
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 5, 2006
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        > Sorry, Eckankar is just another silly religion! However,
        > I will have to admit that at least Eckists are doing less physical
        > harm to others than the members of the world's major religions.
        >
        > Prometheus

        yes, I agree. Yet the time of Eckankar is not in the Middle Ages where
        the only way seems to be fighting with weapons. For me the fight
        against souls which have other thinking in religion is frightening in
        the same way. so extremly in Eckankar with all the threatenings and
        condemnations by his leader and his followers, only 40 years in modern-
        times.
        I think isn't unjust to compare? We have so many new knowledge of
        spirituality, Zen, Buddhism... which shows ways with no condemnation.
        so Eckankar isn't up to date :-(
        Christel
      • prometheus_973
        This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying, implying, or Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is saying. Also, I disagree
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 6, 2006
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          This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying, implying, or
          Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is
          saying. Also, I disagree that "A surprising number of chelas missed
          his article." This, also, is an imagined assumption. The truth is
          that Klemp really didn't take a stand or say much of anything to get
          excited about. It was a typical ho-hum response by a anti-social
          farmboy/preacher wannabe who flew under the radar and rode in on the
          coat-tails of two scammers that also claimed to be saviors.

          ********************************************************************

          AN ECK SLIDE SHOW FOR MEMBERS ONLY:

          "A Warning . . . . .
          In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of the
          massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas missed
          his article.

          Never before. . .
          The Master has never come out with such a strong message. But as
          always he offered a solution: 'Only love and service' can make a
          difference, he said. 'The future is in your hands and depends upon
          you, and others like you' added Sri Harold. (Ask the Master, page 5,
          June 2005 Mystic World)

          ss - Sun Valley, CA"

          *********************************************************************
          ASK THE MASTER - JUNE 2005 - THE MYSTIC WORLD OF ECKANKAR

          Q: "We now have the ECKANKAR Spiritual Center on the same ground as
          the Temple of ECK, the major ECK seminars in Minneapolis, and even
          more focus on Vahana work in the RESA structure."

          1.) "How will that affect ECKANKAR and the life of the chelas all
          over the world--now and in the future?"

          2.) "And what about the world in general?"


          Me: It seems to me that Klemp is isolating himself and Eckankar.
          Instead of spreading out or reaching out through travel to various
          cities Klemp is having everything confined to the Minneapolis area.
          The volunteer Vahana effort is just a way of giving "busy work"
          (trainings, classes, intros, discussions, making plans, organizing,
          etc.) so that Eckists will continue to live in the future versus the
          now, and remain distracted and tied to the promise of God
          Realization through Initiation and position. Anway, let's see how
          Klemp answers these two questions.

          HK: "Watch to see how this plays out. The future is in your hands
          and depends upon you and others like you."

          Me: How long does it take to "play out?" Klemp has been the
          LEM/Mahanta since 1981! What does HK mean by the future being "in
          your hands and depends upon you and others like you?" Are Eckists
          supposed to be pro-active for world peace, recycle, use less energy,
          or is their higher vibratory rate (consciousness) going to raise
          world consciousness? Will having more HU Chants raise world
          consciousness?

          HK: "Yes, there is a great spiritual significance in that the new
          ECKANKAR spiritual Center joins the ECK Temple and chapel on the ECK
          campus."

          Me: Okay, what is this "great spiritual significance?" Please
          explain this and give examples! Also, I always thought that the true
          Seat of Power was where ever the LEM/Mahanta resided - otherwise
          these are just buildings. What was HK's home address again? : )

          HK: "Yet that is hardly the beginning and the end of it. Nor is the
          fact that this is the Year of the ECK Missionary."

          Me: Okay, nothing much said here either. BTW - How did last year
          (Year of the Eck Missionary) turn out? What were the results
          compared to previous years? Because there should be some great
          improvements with the ESC, Temple, chapel, World Wide Seminar, and
          Year of the Missionary all bunched together - right?

          HK: "Each element is certainly an important part of the whole, BUT
          only love and service will make any success come true. So it's up to
          you (and you, and you)."

          Me: Okay, so was there enough love and service in 2005 to make the
          Year of the Missionary a success compared to previous years? It
          would be nice to know what the results were and how much donation
          money (and how many donated service hours per Vahana) it takes to
          bring in a new member. Is it now something like $50 dollars and 25
          hours of service per Vahana = one new member? Was this worse than
          last year or better? Which local areas spent the most or least money
          and/or hours per new member?

          HK: "How will this affect the world and all within it?"

          Me: Well, this is the question you've been dancing around!

          HK: "A quickening of the spiritual currents is in the works. The
          purification of Souls will speed up."

          Me: Oh, so the LEM/Mahanta will now start to uplift the world
          consciousness because the ESC, Temple, chapel, EWWS, and because of
          the success of the Vahana effort (finally) and because of all of
          those ECK High Initiates and their Higher Consciousness!

          HK: "The table of politics, economics, and order in society are due
          to turn upside down. There will be unrest of the deepest kind. BUT
          you will feel at peace."

          Me: What! This seems to be a very negative view of the world and of
          life in general. So tell me again of the "great spiritual
          significance" of the bundled together Eck compound. Is Klemp going
          to build high rise condos for Eckists on the Eckankar property and
          wall it in! Will it be wholly self-sufficient with a natural foods
          grocery etc., etc.? What will that cost, when will ground breaking
          begin, what are the qualifications and restrictions to get on the
          list? It's a good thing that (at least) Eckists won't have to worry
          and will "feel at peace."

          HK: "Something will always be boiling over in human affairs. Yet
          sanctuary, peace, and contentment are in ready supply in the higher
          states of consciousness."

          Me: So does this mean that there won't be an Eck compound and high
          rise condos near the ESC or Temple? Is happiness and peace just a
          state of mind? How about the rest of the world for all those
          Vahanas - what are they to do? Ah, just close your eyes to it all
          and HU. Don't worry about the suffering of the non-believers (non-
          Eckists) it's their karma! Don't worry about the animals either!
          It's karmic! The LEM/Mahanta can't prevent the Kali Yuga or can he?
          Can the love of the Mahanta the incarnation of Sugmad intervene?
          Well, if he was actually all that he claims he could prevent war or
          his presence (and his H.I.'s) could even raise world consciousness -
          BUT, Klemp's not really who or what he claims.

          HK: "The Spiritual Exercises of ECK are your means to enter them.
          They will be your solace. They are the spring-board to love divine,
          to a love that excels all other things. Take heart, the sun shines
          on all who love God, the ECK, and the Mahanta."

          Me: What happened to Sugmad versus God? There is a difference (see
          pages 385-386 in HK's Autobiography)! And, which "sun" does Klemp
          talk about? The one in this small insignificant solar system! It
          seems that Klemp is once again encouraging Eckists to feel and
          behave as elitists and to place themselves upon pedestals above
          others.

          Yes, just do the S.E. of Eck and all will be well in your delusional
          and selfish little minds he instructs. Where did Klemp give true
          direction or current answers for living in this here and now?
          Conflict has always been with mankind, however, consciousness is
          slowly increasing. Klemp paints a bleak picture as does other
          religious fundamentalists who are anticipating the Rapture or
          Armageddon or 72 virgins some other sort of nonsense to exclude
          others. Talk is cheap for HK and this type of bible thumper. They
          know nothing of true Love or of Spirit. Religious leaders and new
          saviors are in the business of seeking followers to trick and scam
          for whatever means they see fit and justified to use them for.

          Many chelas have heard Klemp's pitiful side-stepping of questions
          before and this is another reason for the lack concern. Eckists have
          become passive. They did not "miss" this article as the Sun Valley
          chela stated. really, is it any wonder that Vahana efforts are
          difficult to get off the ground when Klemp encourages Eckists to
          hide in a cave and HU themselves to sleep as a solution to the
          upheavel in the world! Eckists should ask themselves how they differ
          from a pebble. Is the whole Vahana effort to get people to use the
          HU as a sort of self-centered mind numbing drug, or to bring in more
          annual $$$ memberships? Vahanas are like drug pushers! What good is
          Higher Consciousness if it is not used to benefit mankind and and if
          it does not raise world or universal consciousness!?

          Klemp's answers should really make Eckists re-think the position
          Eckankar is taking in this world.

          Prometheus
        • prometheus_973
          Klemp s take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT s birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled The Year of Giving a.k.a. You Giving and Me
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
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            Klemp's take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT's
            birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled "The Year of Giving"
            a.k.a. "You Giving and Me Taking" LOL! So, according to HK "only
            love and service can make a difference" to Eckists when looking at
            the upheavals in the world. This is the Eck Spiritual Exercise of
            Burying the Head into the Sand or de-Nile (ancient secret H.I.
            technique).

            Yes, this is the phoney Mahanta's phoney "Gift." Interesting that
            Klemp uses this quote from the Shariyat Book One (in the current
            EWWS literature): "The words of the Mahanta alone can change the
            world, completely and irrevocably." How do mundane words directed to
            only Eckists or to potential "paying" members mean anything to the
            world or help to make changes in consciousness? How do "loser"
            comments to his chelas spread the message of love? Anyway, Klump's
            09/2006 front page Mystic World sci-fi article "Oh, You've Come So
            Far!" a.k.a. "You've Been a Sucker For So Long!" will be coming here
            to ESA soon!

            Prometheus


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying, implying,
            or
            > Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is
            > saying. Also, I disagree that "A surprising number of chelas
            missed
            > his article." This, also, is an imagined assumption. The truth is
            > that Klemp really didn't take a stand or say much of anything to
            get
            > excited about. It was a typical ho-hum response by a anti-social
            > farmboy/preacher wannabe who flew under the radar and rode in on
            the
            > coat-tails of two scammers that also claimed to be saviors.
            >
            >
            ********************************************************************
            >
            > AN ECK SLIDE SHOW FOR MEMBERS ONLY:
            >
            > "A Warning . . . . .
            > In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of
            the
            > massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas
            missed
            > his article.
            >
            > Never before. . .
            > The Master has never come out with such a strong message. But as
            > always he offered a solution: 'Only love and service' can make a
            > difference, he said. 'The future is in your hands and depends upon
            > you, and others like you' added Sri Harold. (Ask the Master, page
            5,
            > June 2005 Mystic World)
            >
            > ss - Sun Valley, CA"
            >
            >
            *********************************************************************
            > ASK THE MASTER - JUNE 2005 - THE MYSTIC WORLD OF ECKANKAR
            >
            > Q: "We now have the ECKANKAR Spiritual Center on the same ground
            as
            > the Temple of ECK, the major ECK seminars in Minneapolis, and even
            > more focus on Vahana work in the RESA structure."
            >
            > 1.) "How will that affect ECKANKAR and the life of the chelas all
            > over the world--now and in the future?"
            >
            > 2.) "And what about the world in general?"
            >
            >
            > Me: It seems to me that Klemp is isolating himself and Eckankar.
            > Instead of spreading out or reaching out through travel to various
            > cities Klemp is having everything confined to the Minneapolis
            area.
            > The volunteer Vahana effort is just a way of giving "busy work"
            > (trainings, classes, intros, discussions, making plans,
            organizing,
            > etc.) so that Eckists will continue to live in the future versus
            the
            > now, and remain distracted and tied to the promise of God
            > Realization through Initiation and position. Anway, let's see how
            > Klemp answers these two questions.
            >
            > HK: "Watch to see how this plays out. The future is in your hands
            > and depends upon you and others like you."
            >
            > Me: How long does it take to "play out?" Klemp has been the
            > LEM/Mahanta since 1981! What does HK mean by the future being "in
            > your hands and depends upon you and others like you?" Are Eckists
            > supposed to be pro-active for world peace, recycle, use less
            energy,
            > or is their higher vibratory rate (consciousness) going to raise
            > world consciousness? Will having more HU Chants raise world
            > consciousness?
            >
            > HK: "Yes, there is a great spiritual significance in that the new
            > ECKANKAR spiritual Center joins the ECK Temple and chapel on the
            ECK
            > campus."
            >
            > Me: Okay, what is this "great spiritual significance?" Please
            > explain this and give examples! Also, I always thought that the
            true
            > Seat of Power was where ever the LEM/Mahanta resided - otherwise
            > these are just buildings. What was HK's home address again? : )
            >
            > HK: "Yet that is hardly the beginning and the end of it. Nor is
            the
            > fact that this is the Year of the ECK Missionary."
            >
            > Me: Okay, nothing much said here either. BTW - How did last year
            > (Year of the Eck Missionary) turn out? What were the results
            > compared to previous years? Because there should be some great
            > improvements with the ESC, Temple, chapel, World Wide Seminar, and
            > Year of the Missionary all bunched together - right?
            >
            > HK: "Each element is certainly an important part of the whole, BUT
            > only love and service will make any success come true. So it's up
            to
            > you (and you, and you)."
            >
            > Me: Okay, so was there enough love and service in 2005 to make the
            > Year of the Missionary a success compared to previous years? It
            > would be nice to know what the results were and how much donation
            > money (and how many donated service hours per Vahana) it takes to
            > bring in a new member. Is it now something like $50 dollars and 25
            > hours of service per Vahana = one new member? Was this worse than
            > last year or better? Which local areas spent the most or least
            money
            > and/or hours per new member?
            >
            > HK: "How will this affect the world and all within it?"
            >
            > Me: Well, this is the question you've been dancing around!
            >
            > HK: "A quickening of the spiritual currents is in the works. The
            > purification of Souls will speed up."
            >
            > Me: Oh, so the LEM/Mahanta will now start to uplift the world
            > consciousness because the ESC, Temple, chapel, EWWS, and because
            of
            > the success of the Vahana effort (finally) and because of all of
            > those ECK High Initiates and their Higher Consciousness!
            >
            > HK: "The table of politics, economics, and order in society are
            due
            > to turn upside down. There will be unrest of the deepest kind. BUT
            > you will feel at peace."
            >
            > Me: What! This seems to be a very negative view of the world and
            of
            > life in general. So tell me again of the "great spiritual
            > significance" of the bundled together Eck compound. Is Klemp going
            > to build high rise condos for Eckists on the Eckankar property and
            > wall it in! Will it be wholly self-sufficient with a natural foods
            > grocery etc., etc.? What will that cost, when will ground breaking
            > begin, what are the qualifications and restrictions to get on the
            > list? It's a good thing that (at least) Eckists won't have to
            worry
            > and will "feel at peace."
            >
            > HK: "Something will always be boiling over in human affairs. Yet
            > sanctuary, peace, and contentment are in ready supply in the
            higher
            > states of consciousness."
            >
            > Me: So does this mean that there won't be an Eck compound and high
            > rise condos near the ESC or Temple? Is happiness and peace just a
            > state of mind? How about the rest of the world for all those
            > Vahanas - what are they to do? Ah, just close your eyes to it all
            > and HU. Don't worry about the suffering of the non-believers (non-
            > Eckists) it's their karma! Don't worry about the animals either!
            > It's karmic! The LEM/Mahanta can't prevent the Kali Yuga or can
            he?
            > Can the love of the Mahanta the incarnation of Sugmad intervene?
            > Well, if he was actually all that he claims he could prevent war
            or
            > his presence (and his H.I.'s) could even raise world
            consciousness -
            > BUT, Klemp's not really who or what he claims.
            >
            > HK: "The Spiritual Exercises of ECK are your means to enter them.
            > They will be your solace. They are the spring-board to love
            divine,
            > to a love that excels all other things. Take heart, the sun shines
            > on all who love God, the ECK, and the Mahanta."
            >
            > Me: What happened to Sugmad versus God? There is a difference (see
            > pages 385-386 in HK's Autobiography)! And, which "sun" does Klemp
            > talk about? The one in this small insignificant solar system! It
            > seems that Klemp is once again encouraging Eckists to feel and
            > behave as elitists and to place themselves upon pedestals above
            > others.
            >
            > Yes, just do the S.E. of Eck and all will be well in your
            delusional
            > and selfish little minds he instructs. Where did Klemp give true
            > direction or current answers for living in this here and now?
            > Conflict has always been with mankind, however, consciousness is
            > slowly increasing. Klemp paints a bleak picture as does other
            > religious fundamentalists who are anticipating the Rapture or
            > Armageddon or 72 virgins some other sort of nonsense to exclude
            > others. Talk is cheap for HK and this type of bible thumper. They
            > know nothing of true Love or of Spirit. Religious leaders and new
            > saviors are in the business of seeking followers to trick and scam
            > for whatever means they see fit and justified to use them for.
            >
            > Many chelas have heard Klemp's pitiful side-stepping of questions
            > before and this is another reason for the lack concern. Eckists
            have
            > become passive. They did not "miss" this article as the Sun Valley
            > chela stated. really, is it any wonder that Vahana efforts are
            > difficult to get off the ground when Klemp encourages Eckists to
            > hide in a cave and HU themselves to sleep as a solution to the
            > upheavel in the world! Eckists should ask themselves how they
            differ
            > from a pebble. Is the whole Vahana effort to get people to use the
            > HU as a sort of self-centered mind numbing drug, or to bring in
            more
            > annual $$$ memberships? Vahanas are like drug pushers! What good
            is
            > Higher Consciousness if it is not used to benefit mankind and and
            if
            > it does not raise world or universal consciousness!?
            >
            > Klemp's answers should really make Eckists re-think the position
            > Eckankar is taking in this world.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
          • ctecvie
            Prometheus and all, so very funny and so very true (and Not so funny), too! :-) I guess whatever the chelas will do, it won t be enough! I wonder, too, how it
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
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              Prometheus and all,

              so very funny and so very true (and Not so funny), too! :-)
              I guess whatever the chelas will do, it won't be enough! I wonder,
              too, how it can be that words of the great guru to his paying
              membership (only 50.000 worldwide) can make a change. HK really
              loses it more and more.

              Ingrid

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Klemp's take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT's
              > birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled "The Year of Giving"
              > a.k.a. "You Giving and Me Taking" LOL! So, according to HK "only
              > love and service can make a difference" to Eckists when looking at
              > the upheavals in the world. This is the Eck Spiritual Exercise of
              > Burying the Head into the Sand or de-Nile (ancient secret H.I.
              > technique).
              >
              > Yes, this is the phoney Mahanta's phoney "Gift." Interesting that
              > Klemp uses this quote from the Shariyat Book One (in the current
              > EWWS literature): "The words of the Mahanta alone can change the
              > world, completely and irrevocably." How do mundane words directed
              >o
              > only Eckists or to potential "paying" members mean anything to the
              > world or help to make changes in consciousness? How do "loser"
              > comments to his chelas spread the message of love? Anyway, Klump's
              > 09/2006 front page Mystic World sci-fi article "Oh, You've Come So
              > Far!" a.k.a. "You've Been a Sucker For So Long!" will be coming
              >ere
              > to ESA soon!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > --- In
              EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
              > >
              > > This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying,
              implying,
              > or
              > > Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is
              > > saying. Also, I disagree that "A surprising number of chelas
              > missed
              > > his article." This, also, is an imagined assumption. The truth
              is
              > > that Klemp really didn't take a stand or say much of anything to
              > get
              > > excited about. It was a typical ho-hum response by a anti-social
              > > farmboy/preacher wannabe who flew under the radar and rode in on
              > the
              > > coat-tails of two scammers that also claimed to be saviors.
              > >
              > >
              >
              ********************************************************************
              > >
              > > AN ECK SLIDE SHOW FOR MEMBERS ONLY:
              > >
              > > "A Warning . . . . .
              > > In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of
              > the
              > > massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas
              > missed
              > > his article.
              > >
              > > Never before. . .
              > > The Master has never come out with such a strong message. But as
              > > always he offered a solution: 'Only love and service' can make a
              > > difference, he said. 'The future is in your hands and depends
              upon
              > > you, and others like you' added Sri Harold. (Ask the Master,
              page
              > 5,
              > > June 2005 Mystic World)
              > >
              > > ss - Sun Valley, CA"
              > >
              > >
              >
              *********************************************************************
              > > ASK THE MASTER - JUNE 2005 - THE MYSTIC WORLD OF ECKANKAR
              > >
              > > Q: "We now have the ECKANKAR Spiritual Center on the same ground
              > as
              > > the Temple of ECK, the major ECK seminars in Minneapolis, and
              even
              > > more focus on Vahana work in the RESA structure."
              > >
              > > 1.) "How will that affect ECKANKAR and the life of the chelas
              all
              > > over the world--now and in the future?"
              > >
              > > 2.) "And what about the world in general?"
              > >
              > >
              > > Me: It seems to me that Klemp is isolating himself and Eckankar.
              > > Instead of spreading out or reaching out through travel to
              various
              > > cities Klemp is having everything confined to the Minneapolis
              > area.
              > > The volunteer Vahana effort is just a way of giving "busy work"
              > > (trainings, classes, intros, discussions, making plans,
              > organizing,
              > > etc.) so that Eckists will continue to live in the future versus
              > the
              > > now, and remain distracted and tied to the promise of God
              > > Realization through Initiation and position. Anway, let's see
              how
              > > Klemp answers these two questions.
              > >
              > > HK: "Watch to see how this plays out. The future is in your
              hands
              > > and depends upon you and others like you."
              > >
              > > Me: How long does it take to "play out?" Klemp has been the
              > > LEM/Mahanta since 1981! What does HK mean by the future
              being "in
              > > your hands and depends upon you and others like you?" Are
              Eckists
              > > supposed to be pro-active for world peace, recycle, use less
              > energy,
              > > or is their higher vibratory rate (consciousness) going to raise
              > > world consciousness? Will having more HU Chants raise world
              > > consciousness?
              > >
              > > HK: "Yes, there is a great spiritual significance in that the
              new
              > > ECKANKAR spiritual Center joins the ECK Temple and chapel on the
              > ECK
              > > campus."
              > >
              > > Me: Okay, what is this "great spiritual significance?" Please
              > > explain this and give examples! Also, I always thought that the
              > true
              > > Seat of Power was where ever the LEM/Mahanta resided - otherwise
              > > these are just buildings. What was HK's home address again? : )
              > >
              > > HK: "Yet that is hardly the beginning and the end of it. Nor is
              > the
              > > fact that this is the Year of the ECK Missionary."
              > >
              > > Me: Okay, nothing much said here either. BTW - How did last year
              > > (Year of the Eck Missionary) turn out? What were the results
              > > compared to previous years? Because there should be some great
              > > improvements with the ESC, Temple, chapel, World Wide Seminar,
              and
              > > Year of the Missionary all bunched together - right?
              > >
              > > HK: "Each element is certainly an important part of the whole,
              BUT
              > > only love and service will make any success come true. So it's
              up
              > to
              > > you (and you, and you)."
              > >
              > > Me: Okay, so was there enough love and service in 2005 to make
              the
              > > Year of the Missionary a success compared to previous years? It
              > > would be nice to know what the results were and how much
              donation
              > > money (and how many donated service hours per Vahana) it takes
              to
              > > bring in a new member. Is it now something like $50 dollars and
              25
              > > hours of service per Vahana = one new member? Was this worse
              than
              > > last year or better? Which local areas spent the most or least
              > money
              > > and/or hours per new member?
              > >
              > > HK: "How will this affect the world and all within it?"
              > >
              > > Me: Well, this is the question you've been dancing around!
              > >
              > > HK: "A quickening of the spiritual currents is in the works. The
              > > purification of Souls will speed up."
              > >
              > > Me: Oh, so the LEM/Mahanta will now start to uplift the world
              > > consciousness because the ESC, Temple, chapel, EWWS, and because
              > of
              > > the success of the Vahana effort (finally) and because of all of
              > > those ECK High Initiates and their Higher Consciousness!
              > >
              > > HK: "The table of politics, economics, and order in society are
              > due
              > > to turn upside down. There will be unrest of the deepest kind.
              BUT
              > > you will feel at peace."
              > >
              > > Me: What! This seems to be a very negative view of the world and
              > of
              > > life in general. So tell me again of the "great spiritual
              > > significance" of the bundled together Eck compound. Is Klemp
              going
              > > to build high rise condos for Eckists on the Eckankar property
              and
              > > wall it in! Will it be wholly self-sufficient with a natural
              foods
              > > grocery etc., etc.? What will that cost, when will ground
              breaking
              > > begin, what are the qualifications and restrictions to get on
              the
              > > list? It's a good thing that (at least) Eckists won't have to
              > worry
              > > and will "feel at peace."
              > >
              > > HK: "Something will always be boiling over in human affairs. Yet
              > > sanctuary, peace, and contentment are in ready supply in the
              > higher
              > > states of consciousness."
              > >
              > > Me: So does this mean that there won't be an Eck compound and
              high
              > > rise condos near the ESC or Temple? Is happiness and peace just
              a
              > > state of mind? How about the rest of the world for all those
              > > Vahanas - what are they to do? Ah, just close your eyes to it
              all
              > > and HU. Don't worry about the suffering of the non-believers
              (non-
              > > Eckists) it's their karma! Don't worry about the animals either!
              > > It's karmic! The LEM/Mahanta can't prevent the Kali Yuga or can
              > he?
              > > Can the love of the Mahanta the incarnation of Sugmad intervene?
              > > Well, if he was actually all that he claims he could prevent war
              > or
              > > his presence (and his H.I.'s) could even raise world
              > consciousness -
              > > BUT, Klemp's not really who or what he claims.
              > >
              > > HK: "The Spiritual Exercises of ECK are your means to enter
              them.
              > > They will be your solace. They are the spring-board to love
              > divine,
              > > to a love that excels all other things. Take heart, the sun
              shines
              > > on all who love God, the ECK, and the Mahanta."
              > >
              > > Me: What happened to Sugmad versus God? There is a difference
              (see
              > > pages 385-386 in HK's Autobiography)! And, which "sun" does
              Klemp
              > > talk about? The one in this small insignificant solar system! It
              > > seems that Klemp is once again encouraging Eckists to feel and
              > > behave as elitists and to place themselves upon pedestals above
              > > others.
              > >
              > > Yes, just do the S.E. of Eck and all will be well in your
              > delusional
              > > and selfish little minds he instructs. Where did Klemp give true
              > > direction or current answers for living in this here and now?
              > > Conflict has always been with mankind, however, consciousness is
              > > slowly increasing. Klemp paints a bleak picture as does other
              > > religious fundamentalists who are anticipating the Rapture or
              > > Armageddon or 72 virgins some other sort of nonsense to exclude
              > > others. Talk is cheap for HK and this type of bible thumper.
              They
              > > know nothing of true Love or of Spirit. Religious leaders and
              new
              > > saviors are in the business of seeking followers to trick and
              scam
              > > for whatever means they see fit and justified to use them for.
              > >
              > > Many chelas have heard Klemp's pitiful side-stepping of
              questions
              > > before and this is another reason for the lack concern. Eckists
              > have
              > > become passive. They did not "miss" this article as the Sun
              Valley
              > > chela stated. really, is it any wonder that Vahana efforts are
              > > difficult to get off the ground when Klemp encourages Eckists to
              > > hide in a cave and HU themselves to sleep as a solution to the
              > > upheavel in the world! Eckists should ask themselves how they
              > differ
              > > from a pebble. Is the whole Vahana effort to get people to use
              the
              > > HU as a sort of self-centered mind numbing drug, or to bring in
              > more
              > > annual $$$ memberships? Vahanas are like drug pushers! What good
              > is
              > > Higher Consciousness if it is not used to benefit mankind and
              and
              > if
              > > it does not raise world or universal consciousness!?
              > >
              > > Klemp's answers should really make Eckists re-think the position
              > > Eckankar is taking in this world.
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Klemp s take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT s birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled The Year of Giving a.k.a. You Giving and Me
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 19, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Klemp's take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT's
                birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled "The Year of Giving"
                a.k.a. "You Giving and Me Taking" LOL! So, according to HK "only
                love and service can make a difference" to Eckists when looking at
                the upheavals in the world. This is the Eck Spiritual Exercise of
                Burying the Head into the Sand or de-Nile (ancient secret H.I.
                technique).

                Yes, this is the phoney Mahanta's phoney "Gift." Interesting that
                Klemp uses this quote from the Shariyat Book One (in the current
                EWWS literature): "The words of the Mahanta alone can change the
                world, completely and irrevocably." How do mundane words directed to
                only Eckists or to potential "paying" members mean anything to the
                world or help to make changes in consciousness? How do "loser"
                comments to his chelas spread the message of love?

                This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying, implying,
                or Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is
                saying. Also, I disagree that "A surprising number of chelas missed
                his article." This, also, is an imagined assumption. The truth is
                that Klemp really didn't take a stand or say much of anything to
                get excited about. It was a typical ho-hum response by a anti-social
                farmboy/preacher wannabe who flew under the radar and rode in on
                the coat-tails of two scammers that also claimed to be saviors.


                ********************************************************************

                AN ECK SLIDE SHOW FOR MEMBERS ONLY:

                "A Warning . . . . .
                In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of the
                massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas missed
                his article.

                Never before. . .
                The Master has never come out with such a strong message. But as
                always he offered a solution: 'Only love and service' can make a
                difference, he said. 'The future is in your hands and depends upon
                you, and others like you' added Sri Harold. (Ask the Master, page 5,
                June 2005 Mystic World)

                ss - Sun Valley, CA"



                *********************************************************************

                ASK THE MASTER - JUNE 2005 - THE MYSTIC WORLD OF ECKANKAR

                Q: "We now have the ECKANKAR Spiritual Center on the same ground as
                the Temple of ECK, the major ECK seminars in Minneapolis, and even
                more focus on Vahana work in the RESA structure."

                1.) "How will that affect ECKANKAR and the life of the chelas all
                over the world--now and in the future?"

                2.) "And what about the world in general?"


                Me: It seems to me that Klemp is isolating himself and Eckankar.
                Instead of spreading out or reaching out through travel to various
                cities Klemp is having everything confined to the Minneapolis area.
                The volunteer Vahana effort is just a way of giving "busy work"
                (trainings, classes, intros, discussions, making plans, organizing,
                etc.) so that Eckists will continue to live in the future versus the
                now, and remain distracted and tied to the promise of God
                Realization through Initiation and position. Anway, let's see how
                Klemp answers these two questions.

                HK: "Watch to see how this plays out. The future is in your hands
                and depends upon you and others like you."

                Me: How long does it take to "play out?" Klemp has been the
                LEM/Mahanta since 1981! What does HK mean by the future being "in
                your hands and depends upon you and others like you?" Are Eckists
                supposed to be pro-active for world peace, recycle, use less energy,
                or is their higher vibratory rate (consciousness) going to raise
                world consciousness? Will having more HU Chants raise world
                consciousness?

                HK: "Yes, there is a great spiritual significance in that the new
                ECKANKAR spiritual Center joins the ECK Temple and chapel on the ECK
                campus."

                Me: Okay, what is this "great spiritual significance?" Please
                explain this and give examples! Also, I always thought that the
                true Seat of Power was where ever the LEM/Mahanta resided -
                otherwise these are just buildings. What was HK's home address
                again? : )

                HK: "Yet that is hardly the beginning and the end of it. Nor is the
                fact that this is the Year of the ECK Missionary."

                Me: Okay, nothing much said here either. BTW - How did last year
                (Year of the Eck Missionary) turn out? What were the results
                compared to previous years? Because there should be some great
                improvements with the ESC, Temple, chapel, World Wide Seminar, and
                Year of the Missionary all bunched together - right?

                HK: "Each element is certainly an important part of the whole, BUT
                only love and service will make any success come true. So it's up
                to you (and you, and you)."

                Me: Okay, so was there enough love and service in 2005 to make the
                Year of the Missionary a success compared to previous years? It
                would be nice to know what the results were and how much donation
                money (and how many donated service hours per Vahana) it takes to
                bring in a new member. Is it now something like $50 dollars and 25
                hours of service per Vahana = one new member? Was this worse than
                last year or better? Which local areas spent the most or least money
                and/or hours per new member?

                HK: "How will this affect the world and all within it?"

                Me: Well, this is the question you've been dancing around!

                HK: "A quickening of the spiritual currents is in the works. The
                purification of Souls will speed up."

                Me: Oh, so the LEM/Mahanta will now start to uplift the world
                consciousness because the ESC, Temple, chapel, EWWS, and because of
                the success of the Vahana effort (finally) and because of all of
                those ECK High Initiates and their Higher Consciousness!

                HK: "The table of politics, economics, and order in society are
                due to turn upside down. There will be unrest of the deepest kind.
                BUT you will feel at peace."

                Me: What! This seems to be a very negative view of the world and
                of life in general. So tell me again of the "great spiritual
                significance" of the bundled together Eck compound. Is Klemp going
                to build high rise condos for Eckists on the Eckankar property and
                wall it in! Will it be wholly self-sufficient with a natural foods
                grocery etc., etc.? What will that cost, when will ground breaking
                begin, what are the qualifications and restrictions to get on the
                list? It's a good thing that (at least) Eckists won't have to
                worry and will "feel at peace."

                HK: "Something will always be boiling over in human affairs. Yet
                sanctuary, peace, and contentment are in ready supply in the higher
                states of consciousness."

                Me: So does this mean that there won't be an Eck compound and high
                rise condos near the ESC or Temple? Is happiness and peace just a
                state of mind? How about the rest of the world for all those
                Vahanas - what are they to do? Ah, just close your eyes to it all
                and HU. Don't worry about the suffering of the non-believers (non-
                Eckists) it's their karma! Don't worry about the animals either!
                It's karmic! The LEM/Mahanta can't prevent the Kali Yuga or can
                he? Can the love of the Mahanta the incarnation of Sugmad intervene?
                Well, if he was actually all that he claims he could prevent war or
                his presence (and his H.I.'s) could even raise world consciousness -
                BUT, Klemp's not really who or what he claims.

                HK: "The Spiritual Exercises of ECK are your means to enter them.
                They will be your solace. They are the spring-board to love divine,
                to a love that excels all other things. Take heart, the sun shines
                on all who love God, the ECK, and the Mahanta."

                Me: What happened to Sugmad versus God? There is a difference (see
                pages 385-386 in HK's Autobiography)! And, which "sun" does Klemp
                talk about? The one in this small insignificant solar system! It
                seems that Klemp is once again encouraging Eckists to feel and
                behave as elitists and to place themselves upon pedestals above
                others.

                Yes, just do the S.E. of Eck and all will be well in your delusional
                and selfish little minds he instructs. Where did Klemp give true
                direction or current answers for living in this here and now?
                Conflict has always been with mankind, however, consciousness is
                slowly increasing. Klemp paints a bleak picture as does other
                religious fundamentalists who are anticipating the Rapture or
                Armageddon or 72 virgins some other sort of nonsense to exclude
                others. Talk is cheap for HK and this type of bible thumper. They
                know nothing of true Love or of Spirit. Religious leaders and new
                saviors are in the business of seeking followers to trick and scam
                for whatever means they see fit and justified to use them for.

                Many chelas have heard Klemp's pitiful side-stepping of questions
                before and this is another reason for the lack concern. Eckists
                have become passive. They did not "miss" this article as the Sun
                Valley chela stated. really, is it any wonder that Vahana efforts
                are difficult to get off the ground when Klemp encourages Eckists to
                hide in a cave and HU themselves to sleep as a solution to the
                upheavel in the world! Eckists should ask themselves how they differ
                from a pebble. Is the whole Vahana effort to get people to use the
                HU as a sort of self-centered mind numbing drug, or to bring in more
                annual $$$ memberships? Vahanas are like drug pushers! What good is
                Higher Consciousness if it is not used to benefit mankind and and if
                it does not raise world or universal consciousness!?

                Klemp's answers should really make Eckists re-think the position
                Eckankar is taking in this world.

                Prometheus
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