Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

An ECK Slide Show for Members Only!

Expand Messages
  • mishmisha9
    Hi, All! Someone sent me a link to an ECK Slide Show that is beaming around on the Internet (by the way, according to the slide show, the Internet is one of
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 3, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi, All!

      Someone sent me a link to an ECK Slide Show that is beaming around
      on the Internet (by the way, according to the slide show, the
      Internet is one of the distractions that one is expected to
      eventually tire of on the path to God--LOL!). I am unable to put up
      a direct link to the slide show, but here's the text of the entire
      show:

      Religion of the Light and Sound of God

      Do you know that it's been forty years since the modern day
      teachings of ECKANKAR were brought out to the world?

      We have come a long way . . .

      Sri Paul Twitchell laid the foundation for the outer teachings of
      ECKANKAR. It was a formidable task fraught with many challenges and
      difficulties but with the help of a dedicated group of Chelas Paulji
      was able to fulfill his mission.

      Today, the ECK teachings have been firmly established on this
      planet. ECKANKAR is experiencing explosive growth in Africa. We have
      ECK communities all over the United States and Canada. We have come
      of age.

      ECKANKAR is here to stay.

      We have an ECK temple
      And a new ECK Spiritual Center
      And we have the HU . . .

      Our beautiful, beautiful love song to the SUGMAD.

      And above all, we have the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master with us in
      the physical. (there is applause here)
      Can you think of a greater blessing?

      A Life of Service

      In spite of many health challenges Sri Harold Klemp soldiers on in
      the true spirit of the Vairagi ECK Masters. Quietly serving. Never
      complaining.

      It would be so easy for him to shed his physical body and leave this
      world but he stays on because of his love for you, for me and for
      the world. Can you think of a greater sacrifice?

      A Warning . . . . .

      In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of the
      massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas missed
      his article.

      Never before. . .

      The Master has never come out with such a strong message. But as
      always he offered a solution:

      "Only love and service" can make a difference, he said.
      "The future is in your hands and depends upon you, and others like
      you" added Sri Harold.
      (Ask the Master, page 5, June 2005 Mystic World)

      The challenge. .

      Are you ready to help with the Mahanta's mission?

      * To tell the world about the HU and the Spiritual Exercises of ECK
      * To serve life.
      * To be a pure channel for the ECK

      Choices

      As always we have a choice
      It's entirely up to us if we want to help out or not.
      The benefits of serving are enormous: Spiritual growth, a greater
      capacity to love, freedom, joy . . . the list is endless. Why would
      anyone not want to serve?!

      Because there are so many distractions and a million excuses for
      them. (the pics to demonstrate the distractions and excuses were
      television, beer, empty cash register, dollar bills, football,
      traffic jams, wine and the Internet)

      But it's possible . . .
      Eventually we will tire of the distractions and the excuses. It will
      take time but it will happen in this lifetime or the next or the
      next.
      The ECK will see to it. It always does!

      The Master's message is simple:

      * Do the Spiritual exercises of ECK
      * Practice Divine Love
      * Be of Service
      * Live gracefully
      * Be grateful

      Why not share the Master's message with others?

      So how do we get the Living ECK Master's message out to the public?

      Not everyone we meet will feel comfortable singing the HU or doing
      the Spiritual Exercises the way we do them.
      But we can tell them to adapt the Spiritual Exercises to suit their
      needs. We can suggest that they recite their prayers while they put
      their attention on the Third Eye. They can use the image of their
      Master--be it Jesus, the Buddha, Krishna or Guru Nanak. And we can
      tell them to watch for the blue light or the golden light which will
      purify them and lead them home to God.

      So where do we go from here?

      * Join a Vahana team
      * Put up a poster
      * Volunteer to do a talk or lead a book discussion
      * Tell people about the HU and the Spiritual Exercises

      Do something--anything--that will help with the Mahanta's
      mission . . . it's so rewarding!

      Goals

      In the back of our mind, we know that our goals are Self Realization
      and God Realization in this lifetime. The hardest thing is making
      these goals a realty.

      Unless we live our daily lives by the ECK principles we can never
      hope to make progress on this path. It requires discipline, love and
      desire to serve.

      Why discipline?

      Without discipline there would be chaos: a perfect breeding ground
      for the Five Passions of the Mind!

      * Anger
      * Lust
      * Vanity
      * Greed
      * Attachment

      The Spiritual Exercises of ECK are a simple discipline compared to
      this! (Here the slide show displays a pic of an Indian man with his
      head buried in gravel with his legs protruding straight up!)

      Or this! (more pics of a man contorting)

      Only the Light and Sound can lead us home to God.

      There's nothing like it.

      ECKANKAR is a practical, down-to-earth teaching that emphasizes
      responsibility, self- sufficiency and respect for others. No
      reasonable person can fault with such a philosophy.

      Be proud that you're an ECKist!

      Please note. . .

      This presentation is for ECK Chelas only.
      Please do not forward to non-members.
      Thank-you for your cooperation.

      Baraka Bashad

      ss - Sun Valley, CA

      (end of slide show presentation--thank you)
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Mish, Just thought I d share some comments on the Eck crap. mishmisha wrote: I am unable to put up a direct link to the slide show, but here s the text of
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 3, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Mish,
        Just thought I'd share some comments on the Eck crap.

        mishmisha wrote:
        I am unable to put up a direct link to the slide show, but here's
        the text of the entire show:

        ECK SLIDE SHOW:
        "Sri Paul Twitchell laid the foundation for the outer teachings of
        ECKANKAR. It was a formidable task fraught with many challenges and
        difficulties BUT with the help of a dedicated group of Chelas Paulji
        was able to fulfill his mission."

        ***Yep! The liar and "rascal" laid the foundation for the scam to
        continue under Gross and Klemp for sure! The task of fooling people
        was great, but people's desire to find a "Master" or savior outside
        of our true Selves is even greater!

        "...In spite of many health challenges Sri Harold Klemp soldiers on
        in the true spirit of the Vairagi ECK Masters. Quietly serving.
        Never complaining. It would be so easy for him to shed his physical
        body and leave this world BUT he stays on because of his love for
        you, for me and for the world. Can you think of a greater sacrifice?"

        ***Actually, HK was an "airman" rather that a soldier! LOL! Perhaps
        more Eckists should emulate their master mahanta and "quietly" serve
        in the recluse of their hovels/huts/caves/mansions or whatever! They
        just need to stay away from the distraction of: the Internet, TV,
        phones/fax, radio, newspapers and magazines, cars, planes, trains,
        pets, and other people. Actually, Klemp is around 64 years old so he
        has already outlived Twit by one year. I wonder how old Darwin is?
        However, doesn't HK complain about his health? Sure he does! How
        else do we know about EMR's, special diets, and helath care
        practitioners and such. And, he stays on like we all do! And yes, I
        can think of hundreds who make a greater sacrifice than the idiot
        who leads Eckankar!



        "A Warning . . . . .

        In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of the
        massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas missed
        his article.

        Never before. . .

        The Master has never come out with such a strong message. BUT as
        always he offered a solution:

        Only love and service" can make a difference, he said. 'The future
        is in your hands and depends upon you, and others like you' added
        Sri Harold. (Ask the Master, page 5, June 2005 Mystic World)"

        ***I'll have to do a review on these two questions. Actually, the
        first person asks two questions and the second person asks four
        questions. What happened to the principle of the Threes? Did Klemp
        forget or just not care to bother with it?

        ***I did notice that Klemp did not respond to one of the questions
        posed by the second person. The question was: "In short, is it
        better to do one thing well than to do several things medium well?"

        ***Is this Eckist cooking steaks or what? Really though, this sounds
        like a person seeking confirmation that basically means take your
        time and get your ducks lined up, do a lot of planning, etc. and
        eventually the Eck will work it out for you. This is why everything
        takes so long in Eckankar! No one's in a hurry because there's
        really no place to go and no growth (for Eckankar or Eckists) taking
        place! It's all for show in order to get that next Initiation number
        or settler Position. How great to become a RESA and have
        that "Consciousness!" LOL! Ask Ford and dozens of others about that
        falsehood! Sorry, Eckankar is just another silly religion! However,
        I will have to admit that at least Eckists are doing less physical
        harm to others than the members of the world's major religions.

        Prometheus
      • christel_heine2003
        ... yes, I agree. Yet the time of Eckankar is not in the Middle Ages where the only way seems to be fighting with weapons. For me the fight against souls which
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 5, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          > Sorry, Eckankar is just another silly religion! However,
          > I will have to admit that at least Eckists are doing less physical
          > harm to others than the members of the world's major religions.
          >
          > Prometheus

          yes, I agree. Yet the time of Eckankar is not in the Middle Ages where
          the only way seems to be fighting with weapons. For me the fight
          against souls which have other thinking in religion is frightening in
          the same way. so extremly in Eckankar with all the threatenings and
          condemnations by his leader and his followers, only 40 years in modern-
          times.
          I think isn't unjust to compare? We have so many new knowledge of
          spirituality, Zen, Buddhism... which shows ways with no condemnation.
          so Eckankar isn't up to date :-(
          Christel
        • prometheus_973
          This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying, implying, or Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is saying. Also, I disagree
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 6, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying, implying, or
            Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is
            saying. Also, I disagree that "A surprising number of chelas missed
            his article." This, also, is an imagined assumption. The truth is
            that Klemp really didn't take a stand or say much of anything to get
            excited about. It was a typical ho-hum response by a anti-social
            farmboy/preacher wannabe who flew under the radar and rode in on the
            coat-tails of two scammers that also claimed to be saviors.

            ********************************************************************

            AN ECK SLIDE SHOW FOR MEMBERS ONLY:

            "A Warning . . . . .
            In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of the
            massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas missed
            his article.

            Never before. . .
            The Master has never come out with such a strong message. But as
            always he offered a solution: 'Only love and service' can make a
            difference, he said. 'The future is in your hands and depends upon
            you, and others like you' added Sri Harold. (Ask the Master, page 5,
            June 2005 Mystic World)

            ss - Sun Valley, CA"

            *********************************************************************
            ASK THE MASTER - JUNE 2005 - THE MYSTIC WORLD OF ECKANKAR

            Q: "We now have the ECKANKAR Spiritual Center on the same ground as
            the Temple of ECK, the major ECK seminars in Minneapolis, and even
            more focus on Vahana work in the RESA structure."

            1.) "How will that affect ECKANKAR and the life of the chelas all
            over the world--now and in the future?"

            2.) "And what about the world in general?"


            Me: It seems to me that Klemp is isolating himself and Eckankar.
            Instead of spreading out or reaching out through travel to various
            cities Klemp is having everything confined to the Minneapolis area.
            The volunteer Vahana effort is just a way of giving "busy work"
            (trainings, classes, intros, discussions, making plans, organizing,
            etc.) so that Eckists will continue to live in the future versus the
            now, and remain distracted and tied to the promise of God
            Realization through Initiation and position. Anway, let's see how
            Klemp answers these two questions.

            HK: "Watch to see how this plays out. The future is in your hands
            and depends upon you and others like you."

            Me: How long does it take to "play out?" Klemp has been the
            LEM/Mahanta since 1981! What does HK mean by the future being "in
            your hands and depends upon you and others like you?" Are Eckists
            supposed to be pro-active for world peace, recycle, use less energy,
            or is their higher vibratory rate (consciousness) going to raise
            world consciousness? Will having more HU Chants raise world
            consciousness?

            HK: "Yes, there is a great spiritual significance in that the new
            ECKANKAR spiritual Center joins the ECK Temple and chapel on the ECK
            campus."

            Me: Okay, what is this "great spiritual significance?" Please
            explain this and give examples! Also, I always thought that the true
            Seat of Power was where ever the LEM/Mahanta resided - otherwise
            these are just buildings. What was HK's home address again? : )

            HK: "Yet that is hardly the beginning and the end of it. Nor is the
            fact that this is the Year of the ECK Missionary."

            Me: Okay, nothing much said here either. BTW - How did last year
            (Year of the Eck Missionary) turn out? What were the results
            compared to previous years? Because there should be some great
            improvements with the ESC, Temple, chapel, World Wide Seminar, and
            Year of the Missionary all bunched together - right?

            HK: "Each element is certainly an important part of the whole, BUT
            only love and service will make any success come true. So it's up to
            you (and you, and you)."

            Me: Okay, so was there enough love and service in 2005 to make the
            Year of the Missionary a success compared to previous years? It
            would be nice to know what the results were and how much donation
            money (and how many donated service hours per Vahana) it takes to
            bring in a new member. Is it now something like $50 dollars and 25
            hours of service per Vahana = one new member? Was this worse than
            last year or better? Which local areas spent the most or least money
            and/or hours per new member?

            HK: "How will this affect the world and all within it?"

            Me: Well, this is the question you've been dancing around!

            HK: "A quickening of the spiritual currents is in the works. The
            purification of Souls will speed up."

            Me: Oh, so the LEM/Mahanta will now start to uplift the world
            consciousness because the ESC, Temple, chapel, EWWS, and because of
            the success of the Vahana effort (finally) and because of all of
            those ECK High Initiates and their Higher Consciousness!

            HK: "The table of politics, economics, and order in society are due
            to turn upside down. There will be unrest of the deepest kind. BUT
            you will feel at peace."

            Me: What! This seems to be a very negative view of the world and of
            life in general. So tell me again of the "great spiritual
            significance" of the bundled together Eck compound. Is Klemp going
            to build high rise condos for Eckists on the Eckankar property and
            wall it in! Will it be wholly self-sufficient with a natural foods
            grocery etc., etc.? What will that cost, when will ground breaking
            begin, what are the qualifications and restrictions to get on the
            list? It's a good thing that (at least) Eckists won't have to worry
            and will "feel at peace."

            HK: "Something will always be boiling over in human affairs. Yet
            sanctuary, peace, and contentment are in ready supply in the higher
            states of consciousness."

            Me: So does this mean that there won't be an Eck compound and high
            rise condos near the ESC or Temple? Is happiness and peace just a
            state of mind? How about the rest of the world for all those
            Vahanas - what are they to do? Ah, just close your eyes to it all
            and HU. Don't worry about the suffering of the non-believers (non-
            Eckists) it's their karma! Don't worry about the animals either!
            It's karmic! The LEM/Mahanta can't prevent the Kali Yuga or can he?
            Can the love of the Mahanta the incarnation of Sugmad intervene?
            Well, if he was actually all that he claims he could prevent war or
            his presence (and his H.I.'s) could even raise world consciousness -
            BUT, Klemp's not really who or what he claims.

            HK: "The Spiritual Exercises of ECK are your means to enter them.
            They will be your solace. They are the spring-board to love divine,
            to a love that excels all other things. Take heart, the sun shines
            on all who love God, the ECK, and the Mahanta."

            Me: What happened to Sugmad versus God? There is a difference (see
            pages 385-386 in HK's Autobiography)! And, which "sun" does Klemp
            talk about? The one in this small insignificant solar system! It
            seems that Klemp is once again encouraging Eckists to feel and
            behave as elitists and to place themselves upon pedestals above
            others.

            Yes, just do the S.E. of Eck and all will be well in your delusional
            and selfish little minds he instructs. Where did Klemp give true
            direction or current answers for living in this here and now?
            Conflict has always been with mankind, however, consciousness is
            slowly increasing. Klemp paints a bleak picture as does other
            religious fundamentalists who are anticipating the Rapture or
            Armageddon or 72 virgins some other sort of nonsense to exclude
            others. Talk is cheap for HK and this type of bible thumper. They
            know nothing of true Love or of Spirit. Religious leaders and new
            saviors are in the business of seeking followers to trick and scam
            for whatever means they see fit and justified to use them for.

            Many chelas have heard Klemp's pitiful side-stepping of questions
            before and this is another reason for the lack concern. Eckists have
            become passive. They did not "miss" this article as the Sun Valley
            chela stated. really, is it any wonder that Vahana efforts are
            difficult to get off the ground when Klemp encourages Eckists to
            hide in a cave and HU themselves to sleep as a solution to the
            upheavel in the world! Eckists should ask themselves how they differ
            from a pebble. Is the whole Vahana effort to get people to use the
            HU as a sort of self-centered mind numbing drug, or to bring in more
            annual $$$ memberships? Vahanas are like drug pushers! What good is
            Higher Consciousness if it is not used to benefit mankind and and if
            it does not raise world or universal consciousness!?

            Klemp's answers should really make Eckists re-think the position
            Eckankar is taking in this world.

            Prometheus
          • prometheus_973
            Klemp s take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT s birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled The Year of Giving a.k.a. You Giving and Me
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Klemp's take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT's
              birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled "The Year of Giving"
              a.k.a. "You Giving and Me Taking" LOL! So, according to HK "only
              love and service can make a difference" to Eckists when looking at
              the upheavals in the world. This is the Eck Spiritual Exercise of
              Burying the Head into the Sand or de-Nile (ancient secret H.I.
              technique).

              Yes, this is the phoney Mahanta's phoney "Gift." Interesting that
              Klemp uses this quote from the Shariyat Book One (in the current
              EWWS literature): "The words of the Mahanta alone can change the
              world, completely and irrevocably." How do mundane words directed to
              only Eckists or to potential "paying" members mean anything to the
              world or help to make changes in consciousness? How do "loser"
              comments to his chelas spread the message of love? Anyway, Klump's
              09/2006 front page Mystic World sci-fi article "Oh, You've Come So
              Far!" a.k.a. "You've Been a Sucker For So Long!" will be coming here
              to ESA soon!

              Prometheus


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying, implying,
              or
              > Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is
              > saying. Also, I disagree that "A surprising number of chelas
              missed
              > his article." This, also, is an imagined assumption. The truth is
              > that Klemp really didn't take a stand or say much of anything to
              get
              > excited about. It was a typical ho-hum response by a anti-social
              > farmboy/preacher wannabe who flew under the radar and rode in on
              the
              > coat-tails of two scammers that also claimed to be saviors.
              >
              >
              ********************************************************************
              >
              > AN ECK SLIDE SHOW FOR MEMBERS ONLY:
              >
              > "A Warning . . . . .
              > In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of
              the
              > massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas
              missed
              > his article.
              >
              > Never before. . .
              > The Master has never come out with such a strong message. But as
              > always he offered a solution: 'Only love and service' can make a
              > difference, he said. 'The future is in your hands and depends upon
              > you, and others like you' added Sri Harold. (Ask the Master, page
              5,
              > June 2005 Mystic World)
              >
              > ss - Sun Valley, CA"
              >
              >
              *********************************************************************
              > ASK THE MASTER - JUNE 2005 - THE MYSTIC WORLD OF ECKANKAR
              >
              > Q: "We now have the ECKANKAR Spiritual Center on the same ground
              as
              > the Temple of ECK, the major ECK seminars in Minneapolis, and even
              > more focus on Vahana work in the RESA structure."
              >
              > 1.) "How will that affect ECKANKAR and the life of the chelas all
              > over the world--now and in the future?"
              >
              > 2.) "And what about the world in general?"
              >
              >
              > Me: It seems to me that Klemp is isolating himself and Eckankar.
              > Instead of spreading out or reaching out through travel to various
              > cities Klemp is having everything confined to the Minneapolis
              area.
              > The volunteer Vahana effort is just a way of giving "busy work"
              > (trainings, classes, intros, discussions, making plans,
              organizing,
              > etc.) so that Eckists will continue to live in the future versus
              the
              > now, and remain distracted and tied to the promise of God
              > Realization through Initiation and position. Anway, let's see how
              > Klemp answers these two questions.
              >
              > HK: "Watch to see how this plays out. The future is in your hands
              > and depends upon you and others like you."
              >
              > Me: How long does it take to "play out?" Klemp has been the
              > LEM/Mahanta since 1981! What does HK mean by the future being "in
              > your hands and depends upon you and others like you?" Are Eckists
              > supposed to be pro-active for world peace, recycle, use less
              energy,
              > or is their higher vibratory rate (consciousness) going to raise
              > world consciousness? Will having more HU Chants raise world
              > consciousness?
              >
              > HK: "Yes, there is a great spiritual significance in that the new
              > ECKANKAR spiritual Center joins the ECK Temple and chapel on the
              ECK
              > campus."
              >
              > Me: Okay, what is this "great spiritual significance?" Please
              > explain this and give examples! Also, I always thought that the
              true
              > Seat of Power was where ever the LEM/Mahanta resided - otherwise
              > these are just buildings. What was HK's home address again? : )
              >
              > HK: "Yet that is hardly the beginning and the end of it. Nor is
              the
              > fact that this is the Year of the ECK Missionary."
              >
              > Me: Okay, nothing much said here either. BTW - How did last year
              > (Year of the Eck Missionary) turn out? What were the results
              > compared to previous years? Because there should be some great
              > improvements with the ESC, Temple, chapel, World Wide Seminar, and
              > Year of the Missionary all bunched together - right?
              >
              > HK: "Each element is certainly an important part of the whole, BUT
              > only love and service will make any success come true. So it's up
              to
              > you (and you, and you)."
              >
              > Me: Okay, so was there enough love and service in 2005 to make the
              > Year of the Missionary a success compared to previous years? It
              > would be nice to know what the results were and how much donation
              > money (and how many donated service hours per Vahana) it takes to
              > bring in a new member. Is it now something like $50 dollars and 25
              > hours of service per Vahana = one new member? Was this worse than
              > last year or better? Which local areas spent the most or least
              money
              > and/or hours per new member?
              >
              > HK: "How will this affect the world and all within it?"
              >
              > Me: Well, this is the question you've been dancing around!
              >
              > HK: "A quickening of the spiritual currents is in the works. The
              > purification of Souls will speed up."
              >
              > Me: Oh, so the LEM/Mahanta will now start to uplift the world
              > consciousness because the ESC, Temple, chapel, EWWS, and because
              of
              > the success of the Vahana effort (finally) and because of all of
              > those ECK High Initiates and their Higher Consciousness!
              >
              > HK: "The table of politics, economics, and order in society are
              due
              > to turn upside down. There will be unrest of the deepest kind. BUT
              > you will feel at peace."
              >
              > Me: What! This seems to be a very negative view of the world and
              of
              > life in general. So tell me again of the "great spiritual
              > significance" of the bundled together Eck compound. Is Klemp going
              > to build high rise condos for Eckists on the Eckankar property and
              > wall it in! Will it be wholly self-sufficient with a natural foods
              > grocery etc., etc.? What will that cost, when will ground breaking
              > begin, what are the qualifications and restrictions to get on the
              > list? It's a good thing that (at least) Eckists won't have to
              worry
              > and will "feel at peace."
              >
              > HK: "Something will always be boiling over in human affairs. Yet
              > sanctuary, peace, and contentment are in ready supply in the
              higher
              > states of consciousness."
              >
              > Me: So does this mean that there won't be an Eck compound and high
              > rise condos near the ESC or Temple? Is happiness and peace just a
              > state of mind? How about the rest of the world for all those
              > Vahanas - what are they to do? Ah, just close your eyes to it all
              > and HU. Don't worry about the suffering of the non-believers (non-
              > Eckists) it's their karma! Don't worry about the animals either!
              > It's karmic! The LEM/Mahanta can't prevent the Kali Yuga or can
              he?
              > Can the love of the Mahanta the incarnation of Sugmad intervene?
              > Well, if he was actually all that he claims he could prevent war
              or
              > his presence (and his H.I.'s) could even raise world
              consciousness -
              > BUT, Klemp's not really who or what he claims.
              >
              > HK: "The Spiritual Exercises of ECK are your means to enter them.
              > They will be your solace. They are the spring-board to love
              divine,
              > to a love that excels all other things. Take heart, the sun shines
              > on all who love God, the ECK, and the Mahanta."
              >
              > Me: What happened to Sugmad versus God? There is a difference (see
              > pages 385-386 in HK's Autobiography)! And, which "sun" does Klemp
              > talk about? The one in this small insignificant solar system! It
              > seems that Klemp is once again encouraging Eckists to feel and
              > behave as elitists and to place themselves upon pedestals above
              > others.
              >
              > Yes, just do the S.E. of Eck and all will be well in your
              delusional
              > and selfish little minds he instructs. Where did Klemp give true
              > direction or current answers for living in this here and now?
              > Conflict has always been with mankind, however, consciousness is
              > slowly increasing. Klemp paints a bleak picture as does other
              > religious fundamentalists who are anticipating the Rapture or
              > Armageddon or 72 virgins some other sort of nonsense to exclude
              > others. Talk is cheap for HK and this type of bible thumper. They
              > know nothing of true Love or of Spirit. Religious leaders and new
              > saviors are in the business of seeking followers to trick and scam
              > for whatever means they see fit and justified to use them for.
              >
              > Many chelas have heard Klemp's pitiful side-stepping of questions
              > before and this is another reason for the lack concern. Eckists
              have
              > become passive. They did not "miss" this article as the Sun Valley
              > chela stated. really, is it any wonder that Vahana efforts are
              > difficult to get off the ground when Klemp encourages Eckists to
              > hide in a cave and HU themselves to sleep as a solution to the
              > upheavel in the world! Eckists should ask themselves how they
              differ
              > from a pebble. Is the whole Vahana effort to get people to use the
              > HU as a sort of self-centered mind numbing drug, or to bring in
              more
              > annual $$$ memberships? Vahanas are like drug pushers! What good
              is
              > Higher Consciousness if it is not used to benefit mankind and and
              if
              > it does not raise world or universal consciousness!?
              >
              > Klemp's answers should really make Eckists re-think the position
              > Eckankar is taking in this world.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
            • ctecvie
              Prometheus and all, so very funny and so very true (and Not so funny), too! :-) I guess whatever the chelas will do, it won t be enough! I wonder, too, how it
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Prometheus and all,

                so very funny and so very true (and Not so funny), too! :-)
                I guess whatever the chelas will do, it won't be enough! I wonder,
                too, how it can be that words of the great guru to his paying
                membership (only 50.000 worldwide) can make a change. HK really
                loses it more and more.

                Ingrid

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Klemp's take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT's
                > birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled "The Year of Giving"
                > a.k.a. "You Giving and Me Taking" LOL! So, according to HK "only
                > love and service can make a difference" to Eckists when looking at
                > the upheavals in the world. This is the Eck Spiritual Exercise of
                > Burying the Head into the Sand or de-Nile (ancient secret H.I.
                > technique).
                >
                > Yes, this is the phoney Mahanta's phoney "Gift." Interesting that
                > Klemp uses this quote from the Shariyat Book One (in the current
                > EWWS literature): "The words of the Mahanta alone can change the
                > world, completely and irrevocably." How do mundane words directed
                >o
                > only Eckists or to potential "paying" members mean anything to the
                > world or help to make changes in consciousness? How do "loser"
                > comments to his chelas spread the message of love? Anyway, Klump's
                > 09/2006 front page Mystic World sci-fi article "Oh, You've Come So
                > Far!" a.k.a. "You've Been a Sucker For So Long!" will be coming
                >ere
                > to ESA soon!
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > --- In
                EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                > >
                > > This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying,
                implying,
                > or
                > > Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is
                > > saying. Also, I disagree that "A surprising number of chelas
                > missed
                > > his article." This, also, is an imagined assumption. The truth
                is
                > > that Klemp really didn't take a stand or say much of anything to
                > get
                > > excited about. It was a typical ho-hum response by a anti-social
                > > farmboy/preacher wannabe who flew under the radar and rode in on
                > the
                > > coat-tails of two scammers that also claimed to be saviors.
                > >
                > >
                >
                ********************************************************************
                > >
                > > AN ECK SLIDE SHOW FOR MEMBERS ONLY:
                > >
                > > "A Warning . . . . .
                > > In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of
                > the
                > > massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas
                > missed
                > > his article.
                > >
                > > Never before. . .
                > > The Master has never come out with such a strong message. But as
                > > always he offered a solution: 'Only love and service' can make a
                > > difference, he said. 'The future is in your hands and depends
                upon
                > > you, and others like you' added Sri Harold. (Ask the Master,
                page
                > 5,
                > > June 2005 Mystic World)
                > >
                > > ss - Sun Valley, CA"
                > >
                > >
                >
                *********************************************************************
                > > ASK THE MASTER - JUNE 2005 - THE MYSTIC WORLD OF ECKANKAR
                > >
                > > Q: "We now have the ECKANKAR Spiritual Center on the same ground
                > as
                > > the Temple of ECK, the major ECK seminars in Minneapolis, and
                even
                > > more focus on Vahana work in the RESA structure."
                > >
                > > 1.) "How will that affect ECKANKAR and the life of the chelas
                all
                > > over the world--now and in the future?"
                > >
                > > 2.) "And what about the world in general?"
                > >
                > >
                > > Me: It seems to me that Klemp is isolating himself and Eckankar.
                > > Instead of spreading out or reaching out through travel to
                various
                > > cities Klemp is having everything confined to the Minneapolis
                > area.
                > > The volunteer Vahana effort is just a way of giving "busy work"
                > > (trainings, classes, intros, discussions, making plans,
                > organizing,
                > > etc.) so that Eckists will continue to live in the future versus
                > the
                > > now, and remain distracted and tied to the promise of God
                > > Realization through Initiation and position. Anway, let's see
                how
                > > Klemp answers these two questions.
                > >
                > > HK: "Watch to see how this plays out. The future is in your
                hands
                > > and depends upon you and others like you."
                > >
                > > Me: How long does it take to "play out?" Klemp has been the
                > > LEM/Mahanta since 1981! What does HK mean by the future
                being "in
                > > your hands and depends upon you and others like you?" Are
                Eckists
                > > supposed to be pro-active for world peace, recycle, use less
                > energy,
                > > or is their higher vibratory rate (consciousness) going to raise
                > > world consciousness? Will having more HU Chants raise world
                > > consciousness?
                > >
                > > HK: "Yes, there is a great spiritual significance in that the
                new
                > > ECKANKAR spiritual Center joins the ECK Temple and chapel on the
                > ECK
                > > campus."
                > >
                > > Me: Okay, what is this "great spiritual significance?" Please
                > > explain this and give examples! Also, I always thought that the
                > true
                > > Seat of Power was where ever the LEM/Mahanta resided - otherwise
                > > these are just buildings. What was HK's home address again? : )
                > >
                > > HK: "Yet that is hardly the beginning and the end of it. Nor is
                > the
                > > fact that this is the Year of the ECK Missionary."
                > >
                > > Me: Okay, nothing much said here either. BTW - How did last year
                > > (Year of the Eck Missionary) turn out? What were the results
                > > compared to previous years? Because there should be some great
                > > improvements with the ESC, Temple, chapel, World Wide Seminar,
                and
                > > Year of the Missionary all bunched together - right?
                > >
                > > HK: "Each element is certainly an important part of the whole,
                BUT
                > > only love and service will make any success come true. So it's
                up
                > to
                > > you (and you, and you)."
                > >
                > > Me: Okay, so was there enough love and service in 2005 to make
                the
                > > Year of the Missionary a success compared to previous years? It
                > > would be nice to know what the results were and how much
                donation
                > > money (and how many donated service hours per Vahana) it takes
                to
                > > bring in a new member. Is it now something like $50 dollars and
                25
                > > hours of service per Vahana = one new member? Was this worse
                than
                > > last year or better? Which local areas spent the most or least
                > money
                > > and/or hours per new member?
                > >
                > > HK: "How will this affect the world and all within it?"
                > >
                > > Me: Well, this is the question you've been dancing around!
                > >
                > > HK: "A quickening of the spiritual currents is in the works. The
                > > purification of Souls will speed up."
                > >
                > > Me: Oh, so the LEM/Mahanta will now start to uplift the world
                > > consciousness because the ESC, Temple, chapel, EWWS, and because
                > of
                > > the success of the Vahana effort (finally) and because of all of
                > > those ECK High Initiates and their Higher Consciousness!
                > >
                > > HK: "The table of politics, economics, and order in society are
                > due
                > > to turn upside down. There will be unrest of the deepest kind.
                BUT
                > > you will feel at peace."
                > >
                > > Me: What! This seems to be a very negative view of the world and
                > of
                > > life in general. So tell me again of the "great spiritual
                > > significance" of the bundled together Eck compound. Is Klemp
                going
                > > to build high rise condos for Eckists on the Eckankar property
                and
                > > wall it in! Will it be wholly self-sufficient with a natural
                foods
                > > grocery etc., etc.? What will that cost, when will ground
                breaking
                > > begin, what are the qualifications and restrictions to get on
                the
                > > list? It's a good thing that (at least) Eckists won't have to
                > worry
                > > and will "feel at peace."
                > >
                > > HK: "Something will always be boiling over in human affairs. Yet
                > > sanctuary, peace, and contentment are in ready supply in the
                > higher
                > > states of consciousness."
                > >
                > > Me: So does this mean that there won't be an Eck compound and
                high
                > > rise condos near the ESC or Temple? Is happiness and peace just
                a
                > > state of mind? How about the rest of the world for all those
                > > Vahanas - what are they to do? Ah, just close your eyes to it
                all
                > > and HU. Don't worry about the suffering of the non-believers
                (non-
                > > Eckists) it's their karma! Don't worry about the animals either!
                > > It's karmic! The LEM/Mahanta can't prevent the Kali Yuga or can
                > he?
                > > Can the love of the Mahanta the incarnation of Sugmad intervene?
                > > Well, if he was actually all that he claims he could prevent war
                > or
                > > his presence (and his H.I.'s) could even raise world
                > consciousness -
                > > BUT, Klemp's not really who or what he claims.
                > >
                > > HK: "The Spiritual Exercises of ECK are your means to enter
                them.
                > > They will be your solace. They are the spring-board to love
                > divine,
                > > to a love that excels all other things. Take heart, the sun
                shines
                > > on all who love God, the ECK, and the Mahanta."
                > >
                > > Me: What happened to Sugmad versus God? There is a difference
                (see
                > > pages 385-386 in HK's Autobiography)! And, which "sun" does
                Klemp
                > > talk about? The one in this small insignificant solar system! It
                > > seems that Klemp is once again encouraging Eckists to feel and
                > > behave as elitists and to place themselves upon pedestals above
                > > others.
                > >
                > > Yes, just do the S.E. of Eck and all will be well in your
                > delusional
                > > and selfish little minds he instructs. Where did Klemp give true
                > > direction or current answers for living in this here and now?
                > > Conflict has always been with mankind, however, consciousness is
                > > slowly increasing. Klemp paints a bleak picture as does other
                > > religious fundamentalists who are anticipating the Rapture or
                > > Armageddon or 72 virgins some other sort of nonsense to exclude
                > > others. Talk is cheap for HK and this type of bible thumper.
                They
                > > know nothing of true Love or of Spirit. Religious leaders and
                new
                > > saviors are in the business of seeking followers to trick and
                scam
                > > for whatever means they see fit and justified to use them for.
                > >
                > > Many chelas have heard Klemp's pitiful side-stepping of
                questions
                > > before and this is another reason for the lack concern. Eckists
                > have
                > > become passive. They did not "miss" this article as the Sun
                Valley
                > > chela stated. really, is it any wonder that Vahana efforts are
                > > difficult to get off the ground when Klemp encourages Eckists to
                > > hide in a cave and HU themselves to sleep as a solution to the
                > > upheavel in the world! Eckists should ask themselves how they
                > differ
                > > from a pebble. Is the whole Vahana effort to get people to use
                the
                > > HU as a sort of self-centered mind numbing drug, or to bring in
                > more
                > > annual $$$ memberships? Vahanas are like drug pushers! What good
                > is
                > > Higher Consciousness if it is not used to benefit mankind and
                and
                > if
                > > it does not raise world or universal consciousness!?
                > >
                > > Klemp's answers should really make Eckists re-think the position
                > > Eckankar is taking in this world.
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Klemp s take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT s birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled The Year of Giving a.k.a. You Giving and Me
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 19, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Klemp's take on the upcoming Eck Spiritual New Year, on PT's
                  birthdate of Oct. 22, for 2005-2006 is titled "The Year of Giving"
                  a.k.a. "You Giving and Me Taking" LOL! So, according to HK "only
                  love and service can make a difference" to Eckists when looking at
                  the upheavals in the world. This is the Eck Spiritual Exercise of
                  Burying the Head into the Sand or de-Nile (ancient secret H.I.
                  technique).

                  Yes, this is the phoney Mahanta's phoney "Gift." Interesting that
                  Klemp uses this quote from the Shariyat Book One (in the current
                  EWWS literature): "The words of the Mahanta alone can change the
                  world, completely and irrevocably." How do mundane words directed to
                  only Eckists or to potential "paying" members mean anything to the
                  world or help to make changes in consciousness? How do "loser"
                  comments to his chelas spread the message of love?

                  This review will analyze what Klemp is actually saying, implying,
                  or Not saying versus what this Sun Valley Eckist is imagining he is
                  saying. Also, I disagree that "A surprising number of chelas missed
                  his article." This, also, is an imagined assumption. The truth is
                  that Klemp really didn't take a stand or say much of anything to
                  get excited about. It was a typical ho-hum response by a anti-social
                  farmboy/preacher wannabe who flew under the radar and rode in on
                  the coat-tails of two scammers that also claimed to be saviors.


                  ********************************************************************

                  AN ECK SLIDE SHOW FOR MEMBERS ONLY:

                  "A Warning . . . . .
                  In the June 2005 issue of the Mystic World Sri Harold warned of the
                  massive upheaval in the world. A surprising number of chelas missed
                  his article.

                  Never before. . .
                  The Master has never come out with such a strong message. But as
                  always he offered a solution: 'Only love and service' can make a
                  difference, he said. 'The future is in your hands and depends upon
                  you, and others like you' added Sri Harold. (Ask the Master, page 5,
                  June 2005 Mystic World)

                  ss - Sun Valley, CA"



                  *********************************************************************

                  ASK THE MASTER - JUNE 2005 - THE MYSTIC WORLD OF ECKANKAR

                  Q: "We now have the ECKANKAR Spiritual Center on the same ground as
                  the Temple of ECK, the major ECK seminars in Minneapolis, and even
                  more focus on Vahana work in the RESA structure."

                  1.) "How will that affect ECKANKAR and the life of the chelas all
                  over the world--now and in the future?"

                  2.) "And what about the world in general?"


                  Me: It seems to me that Klemp is isolating himself and Eckankar.
                  Instead of spreading out or reaching out through travel to various
                  cities Klemp is having everything confined to the Minneapolis area.
                  The volunteer Vahana effort is just a way of giving "busy work"
                  (trainings, classes, intros, discussions, making plans, organizing,
                  etc.) so that Eckists will continue to live in the future versus the
                  now, and remain distracted and tied to the promise of God
                  Realization through Initiation and position. Anway, let's see how
                  Klemp answers these two questions.

                  HK: "Watch to see how this plays out. The future is in your hands
                  and depends upon you and others like you."

                  Me: How long does it take to "play out?" Klemp has been the
                  LEM/Mahanta since 1981! What does HK mean by the future being "in
                  your hands and depends upon you and others like you?" Are Eckists
                  supposed to be pro-active for world peace, recycle, use less energy,
                  or is their higher vibratory rate (consciousness) going to raise
                  world consciousness? Will having more HU Chants raise world
                  consciousness?

                  HK: "Yes, there is a great spiritual significance in that the new
                  ECKANKAR spiritual Center joins the ECK Temple and chapel on the ECK
                  campus."

                  Me: Okay, what is this "great spiritual significance?" Please
                  explain this and give examples! Also, I always thought that the
                  true Seat of Power was where ever the LEM/Mahanta resided -
                  otherwise these are just buildings. What was HK's home address
                  again? : )

                  HK: "Yet that is hardly the beginning and the end of it. Nor is the
                  fact that this is the Year of the ECK Missionary."

                  Me: Okay, nothing much said here either. BTW - How did last year
                  (Year of the Eck Missionary) turn out? What were the results
                  compared to previous years? Because there should be some great
                  improvements with the ESC, Temple, chapel, World Wide Seminar, and
                  Year of the Missionary all bunched together - right?

                  HK: "Each element is certainly an important part of the whole, BUT
                  only love and service will make any success come true. So it's up
                  to you (and you, and you)."

                  Me: Okay, so was there enough love and service in 2005 to make the
                  Year of the Missionary a success compared to previous years? It
                  would be nice to know what the results were and how much donation
                  money (and how many donated service hours per Vahana) it takes to
                  bring in a new member. Is it now something like $50 dollars and 25
                  hours of service per Vahana = one new member? Was this worse than
                  last year or better? Which local areas spent the most or least money
                  and/or hours per new member?

                  HK: "How will this affect the world and all within it?"

                  Me: Well, this is the question you've been dancing around!

                  HK: "A quickening of the spiritual currents is in the works. The
                  purification of Souls will speed up."

                  Me: Oh, so the LEM/Mahanta will now start to uplift the world
                  consciousness because the ESC, Temple, chapel, EWWS, and because of
                  the success of the Vahana effort (finally) and because of all of
                  those ECK High Initiates and their Higher Consciousness!

                  HK: "The table of politics, economics, and order in society are
                  due to turn upside down. There will be unrest of the deepest kind.
                  BUT you will feel at peace."

                  Me: What! This seems to be a very negative view of the world and
                  of life in general. So tell me again of the "great spiritual
                  significance" of the bundled together Eck compound. Is Klemp going
                  to build high rise condos for Eckists on the Eckankar property and
                  wall it in! Will it be wholly self-sufficient with a natural foods
                  grocery etc., etc.? What will that cost, when will ground breaking
                  begin, what are the qualifications and restrictions to get on the
                  list? It's a good thing that (at least) Eckists won't have to
                  worry and will "feel at peace."

                  HK: "Something will always be boiling over in human affairs. Yet
                  sanctuary, peace, and contentment are in ready supply in the higher
                  states of consciousness."

                  Me: So does this mean that there won't be an Eck compound and high
                  rise condos near the ESC or Temple? Is happiness and peace just a
                  state of mind? How about the rest of the world for all those
                  Vahanas - what are they to do? Ah, just close your eyes to it all
                  and HU. Don't worry about the suffering of the non-believers (non-
                  Eckists) it's their karma! Don't worry about the animals either!
                  It's karmic! The LEM/Mahanta can't prevent the Kali Yuga or can
                  he? Can the love of the Mahanta the incarnation of Sugmad intervene?
                  Well, if he was actually all that he claims he could prevent war or
                  his presence (and his H.I.'s) could even raise world consciousness -
                  BUT, Klemp's not really who or what he claims.

                  HK: "The Spiritual Exercises of ECK are your means to enter them.
                  They will be your solace. They are the spring-board to love divine,
                  to a love that excels all other things. Take heart, the sun shines
                  on all who love God, the ECK, and the Mahanta."

                  Me: What happened to Sugmad versus God? There is a difference (see
                  pages 385-386 in HK's Autobiography)! And, which "sun" does Klemp
                  talk about? The one in this small insignificant solar system! It
                  seems that Klemp is once again encouraging Eckists to feel and
                  behave as elitists and to place themselves upon pedestals above
                  others.

                  Yes, just do the S.E. of Eck and all will be well in your delusional
                  and selfish little minds he instructs. Where did Klemp give true
                  direction or current answers for living in this here and now?
                  Conflict has always been with mankind, however, consciousness is
                  slowly increasing. Klemp paints a bleak picture as does other
                  religious fundamentalists who are anticipating the Rapture or
                  Armageddon or 72 virgins some other sort of nonsense to exclude
                  others. Talk is cheap for HK and this type of bible thumper. They
                  know nothing of true Love or of Spirit. Religious leaders and new
                  saviors are in the business of seeking followers to trick and scam
                  for whatever means they see fit and justified to use them for.

                  Many chelas have heard Klemp's pitiful side-stepping of questions
                  before and this is another reason for the lack concern. Eckists
                  have become passive. They did not "miss" this article as the Sun
                  Valley chela stated. really, is it any wonder that Vahana efforts
                  are difficult to get off the ground when Klemp encourages Eckists to
                  hide in a cave and HU themselves to sleep as a solution to the
                  upheavel in the world! Eckists should ask themselves how they differ
                  from a pebble. Is the whole Vahana effort to get people to use the
                  HU as a sort of self-centered mind numbing drug, or to bring in more
                  annual $$$ memberships? Vahanas are like drug pushers! What good is
                  Higher Consciousness if it is not used to benefit mankind and and if
                  it does not raise world or universal consciousness!?

                  Klemp's answers should really make Eckists re-think the position
                  Eckankar is taking in this world.

                  Prometheus
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.