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Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...

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  • mishmisha9
    ... NECESSARY. ... even ... meaning, ... these ... say ... personality, ... **************************************************** good comments and thoughts,
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 25, 2006
      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
      <eckchains@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...
      >
      > *** These differences in ethics and values just
      > proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation
      > to higher consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of
      > their belief system what is it that they really and truly believe
      > in? What and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a
      > person in authority tells them?
      >
      > Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
      > embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
      > Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?
      >
      > Prometheus
      > ***
      >
      > And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
      > okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably
      NECESSARY.
      > lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the eckankult
      > ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if we can
      even
      > call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the authoritarian cult
      > mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the intellect and also the
      > emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings is very important to a
      > Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle management higher
      > initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a whole new Cult
      meaning,
      > that in reality is unkind, unloving, and untrue. Eckankult takes
      these
      > little mundane lies that people engage in all the time out of
      > courtesy, or whatever, to a completely different level, shall we
      say
      > to a different plane of psuedo reality with their pseudo
      personality,
      > LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o
      >
      > Freefrom
      >

      ****************************************************
      good comments and thoughts, you guys!

      Chelas are encouraged to "borrow" spiritual stories when they give
      talks at intros and workshops in order to sucker new people into the
      org. At some worship services, someone will stand at the back of the
      room (without being announced) and play a few notes on a flute while
      the group is singing Hu--real blatant trickery! Stories are very
      often embellished, either intentionally or because the story teller
      is delusional--it is all taken as "truth." There is so much fakery,
      and yet, the chelas accept it as real or at the very least possible,
      because they want to believe in something greater than themselves.
      Really sad!

      But what is really funny is to read some of the discussions on the
      eck chat sites where some do disagree or try to correct someone
      else's view--they can be very abrupt, and maybe even harsh, and
      certainly narrow, but at the end of the post, they will sign off
      with "love!" LOL! Just really ludicrous! I guess the disagreeable
      poster found it necessary and true to disagree sharply, but signing
      off with love made it kind??? Confusion abounds and grows, doesn't
      it!!

      Mish
    • ctecvie
      Hello Mish and all, ... ************************* ... or, if they don t borrow them, they sometimes just grossly exaggerate them. On huchat recently, an
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 26, 2006
        Hello Mish and all,

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
        <mishmisha9@...> wrote:

        > good comments and thoughts, you guys!
        >
        > Chelas are encouraged to "borrow" spiritual stories when they give
        > talks at intros and workshops in order to sucker new people into
        >the
        > org.

        *************************
        ... or, if they don't "borrow" them, they sometimes just grossly
        exaggerate them. On huchat recently, an eckist was moving from
        Montana to Minnesota. And I quote:
        "When I left Montana last Friday evening, fires broke out all around
        me, really spooky. Ash covered the road, thousands of acres burned
        and are still burning, even around Billings. Pounding rain, lightning
        strikes all around me. It was the trip of my life. I finally pulled
        out of this mess driving east and through North Dakota, but a quarter
        through North Dakota I saw a cloud that kept lighting up and as I
        drove closer to Minnesota, again lightning all around
        me. But Minnesota is too moist to catch fire." Unquote

        Well, how does that sound? To me, it sounds as if the fires had
        broken out because of the move of this lady. She seems to consider
        herself very much an eck master. When asked, she never says so
        directly of course, but she never denies it either! LOL!

        Asked for the reasons of her move, she states this: "Reason why I
        moved? The Mahanta told me so :-)". And then she goes on saying "The
        outer signs were as follows ..." Well, I don't really see what "the
        mahanta told her so" LOL!

        *************************

        >At some worship services, someone will stand at the back of the
        > room (without being announced) and play a few notes on a flute
        >while
        > the group is singing Hu--real blatant trickery! Stories are very
        > often embellished, either intentionally or because the story teller
        > is delusional--it is all taken as "truth." There is so much fakery,
        > and yet, the chelas accept it as real or at the very least
        >possible,
        > because they want to believe in something greater than themselves.
        > Really sad!
        >
        > But what is really funny is to read some of the discussions on the
        > eck chat sites where some do disagree or try to correct someone
        > else's view--they can be very abrupt, and maybe even harsh, and
        > certainly narrow, but at the end of the post, they will sign off
        > with "love!" LOL! Just really ludicrous! I guess the disagreeable
        > poster found it necessary and true to disagree sharply, but signing
        > off with love made it kind??? Confusion abounds and grows, doesn't
        > it!!

        *************************
        Well, I think they just don't know how harsh they really are. They
        just suppress all the negativity and so cannot deal with their own
        aggressive streak because they don't even know they have it! I know
        many eckists that seem kind enough, but when they don't like
        something, they just won't react or respond. Sometimes this can be
        very unkind or a rebuke, too, towards the sender who might have had
        the kindest intentions!

        Ingrid
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Freefrom, You make some good points. Eckists become like everyone else when it comes to promoting their scam. By Any Means Necessary is one way to justify
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 26, 2006
          Hi Freefrom,
          You make some good points. Eckists become like everyone else when it
          comes to promoting their scam. 'By Any Means Necessary' is one way
          to justify the use of negative methods (including deceit) to fight
          the Negative Force (Kal). Two negatives make a positive - right! As
          I implied, Eckists (including Klemp) use the same amoral methods of
          others to justify their missionary/vahana efforts, while feeding
          their own ego. Eckankar's narrow, distorted, jargon based and
          delusional and dogmatic thought processes feed and elevate the ego
          while blocking out and numbing Soul from higher consciousness - this
          is the true by-product of the vahana efforts for the individual
          Eckist. It has nothing to do with Love or the spreading of Truth!

          When Klemp, early on, inadvertantly admits in the PT info on
          Eckankar.org that Twitchell (born 1908) lied about meeting Sudar
          Singh (970th LEM) in India in 1935 at the age of 27 when he was
          lying about his Who's Who achievements what does this say about Love
          or Truth!? Neither have anything to do with the creation of
          Eckankar! Eckankar is not an "Ancient Path" because it is a
          distorted and Werternized version of Radhasoami created by a
          professional liar!

          7th Initiates are Not 8ths on the Inner because the Eck Initiations
          have to be confirmed in the third and final stage on the outer.
          [Maters 4 Discourse, lesson 2] Besides, these "Inner Initiations"
          are false anyway. This is just a ploy to get Eckists to stick around
          when they really know that something is wrong with the Eck teachings
          and their fellow H.I.s. However, it is a clever technique that
          scammers use to put all the blame of guilt and shame (even karma)
          back on the chela/follower/true believer. Very clever, but nothing
          new here either.

          One more thing. When Klemp quotes the Christian Bible - I was just
          wondering about the World Consciousness when this was written versus
          the World Consciousness when Twitchell "wrote" his Eckankar
          information. Why is one still quoted while much of the other is not
          available or reprinted?

          Prometheus




          Freefrom wrote:
          Prometheus wrote:
          Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue... Twitchell twisted
          facts, and lied about everything. There are no Inner initiations or
          Eck Masters. Rebazar was really a fictionalized version of Kirpal!

          *** These differences in ethics and values just proves, even more
          so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation to higher
          consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of their
          belief system what is it that they really and truly believe in? What
          and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a person in
          authority tells them?

          ***Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
          embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
          Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?

          Freefrom:

          And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
          okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably NECESSARY.
          lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the eckankult
          ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if we can
          even call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the authoritarian
          cult mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the intellect and also
          the emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings is very important to
          a Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle management higher
          initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a whole new Cult
          meaning, that in reality is unkind, unloving, and untrue. Eckankult
          takes these little mundane lies that people engage in all the time
          out of courtesy, or whatever, to a completely different level, shall
          we say to a different plane of psuedo reality with their pseudo
          personality, LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o
        • mishmisha9
          Hi, All! I thought I d re-visit this topic thread from last July as it touches on why eckists can feel it is okay to lie--how they will justify the lie s
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 19, 2006
            Hi, All!

            I thought I'd re-visit this topic thread from last July as it
            touches on why eckists can "feel" it is okay to lie--how they will
            justify the lie's need and purpose, just as other people do when
            they feel compelled to step away from the truth and substitute
            falsehoods. As you read down this thread, I would like to point out
            the reference I made to the trickery of someone playing a flute in
            the back of the room during an eck worship service. Most eckists and
            seekers attending the worship service that day were not aware that
            this individual was playing a few single notes on the flute during
            the "HU" and contemplation. However, as an intro to the "HU" and
            contemplation activity, it was mentioned that one might possibly
            hear a flute playing which would indicate the Soul plane (5th
            plane). I wonder how many individuals went away from that worship
            service believing that they had experienced/connected to the Soul
            plane during that contemplation activity? This is outright trickery
            for the purpose of keeping eckists delusional and to entice new
            people to join. The flute playing was arranged in advance by the
            spiritual service coordinator and the local director (both H.I.s)--
            it was not something the individual eckist decided to do on his own.
            There were new seekers at that worship service. There are members on
            Hu-Chat who witnessed and even participated in this deception at the
            eck worship service. I'm pulling this up again to show how the eck
            teachings by the very nature of its lies and deceptions mislead
            eckists into the practices of being liars and deceivers. Really sad.
            Unfortunately for them, they cannot point their fingers at the
            detractors this time when in fact these kal eckists are their own
            detractors of truth.

            Mish

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
            <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
            > <eckchains@> wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In
            EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...

            *** These differences in ethics and values just
            proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation
            to higher consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of
            their belief system what is it that they really and truly believe
            in? What and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a
            person in authority tells them?

            Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
            embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
            Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?

            Prometheus
            ***

            And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
            okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably
            NECESSARY. lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the
            eckankult ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if
            we can even call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the
            authoritarian cult mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the
            intellect and also the emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings
            is very important to a Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle
            management higher initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a
            whole new Cult meaning, that in reality is unkind, unloving, and
            untrue. Eckankult takes these little mundane lies that people engage
            in all the time out of courtesy, or whatever, to a completely
            different level, shall we say to a different plane of psuedo reality
            with their pseudo personality, LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o

            Freefrom

            ****************************************************
            good comments and thoughts, you guys!

            Chelas are encouraged to "borrow" spiritual stories when they give
            talks at intros and workshops in order to sucker new people into the
            org. At some worship services, someone will stand at the back of the
            room (without being announced) and play a few notes on a flute while
            the group is singing Hu--real blatant trickery! Stories are very
            often embellished, either intentionally or because the story teller
            is delusional--it is all taken as "truth." There is so much fakery,
            and yet, the chelas accept it as real or at the very least possible,
            because they want to believe in something greater than themselves.
            Really sad!

            But what is really funny is to read some of the discussions on the
            eck chat sites where some do disagree or try to correct someone
            else's view--they can be very abrupt, and maybe even harsh, and
            certainly narrow, but at the end of the post, they will sign off
            with "love!" LOL! Just really ludicrous! I guess the disagreeable
            poster found it necessary and true to disagree sharply, but signing
            off with love made it kind??? Confusion abounds and grows, doesn't
            it!!

            Mish
            >
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