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Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...

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  • Freefrom
    ... Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue... *** These differences in ethics and values just proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 24, 2006
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      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...

      *** These differences in ethics and values just
      proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation
      to higher consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of
      their belief system what is it that they really and truly believe
      in? What and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a
      person in authority tells them?

      Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
      embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
      Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?

      Prometheus
      ***

      And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
      okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably NECESSARY.
      lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the eckankult
      ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if we can even
      call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the authoritarian cult
      mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the intellect and also the
      emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings is very important to a
      Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle management higher
      initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a whole new Cult meaning,
      that in reality is unkind, unloving, and untrue. Eckankult takes these
      little mundane lies that people engage in all the time out of
      courtesy, or whatever, to a completely different level, shall we say
      to a different plane of psuedo reality with their pseudo personality,
      LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o

      Freefrom
    • mishmisha9
      ... NECESSARY. ... even ... meaning, ... these ... say ... personality, ... **************************************************** good comments and thoughts,
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 25, 2006
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        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
        <eckchains@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > >
        > Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...
        >
        > *** These differences in ethics and values just
        > proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation
        > to higher consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of
        > their belief system what is it that they really and truly believe
        > in? What and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a
        > person in authority tells them?
        >
        > Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
        > embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
        > Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?
        >
        > Prometheus
        > ***
        >
        > And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
        > okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably
        NECESSARY.
        > lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the eckankult
        > ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if we can
        even
        > call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the authoritarian cult
        > mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the intellect and also the
        > emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings is very important to a
        > Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle management higher
        > initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a whole new Cult
        meaning,
        > that in reality is unkind, unloving, and untrue. Eckankult takes
        these
        > little mundane lies that people engage in all the time out of
        > courtesy, or whatever, to a completely different level, shall we
        say
        > to a different plane of psuedo reality with their pseudo
        personality,
        > LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o
        >
        > Freefrom
        >

        ****************************************************
        good comments and thoughts, you guys!

        Chelas are encouraged to "borrow" spiritual stories when they give
        talks at intros and workshops in order to sucker new people into the
        org. At some worship services, someone will stand at the back of the
        room (without being announced) and play a few notes on a flute while
        the group is singing Hu--real blatant trickery! Stories are very
        often embellished, either intentionally or because the story teller
        is delusional--it is all taken as "truth." There is so much fakery,
        and yet, the chelas accept it as real or at the very least possible,
        because they want to believe in something greater than themselves.
        Really sad!

        But what is really funny is to read some of the discussions on the
        eck chat sites where some do disagree or try to correct someone
        else's view--they can be very abrupt, and maybe even harsh, and
        certainly narrow, but at the end of the post, they will sign off
        with "love!" LOL! Just really ludicrous! I guess the disagreeable
        poster found it necessary and true to disagree sharply, but signing
        off with love made it kind??? Confusion abounds and grows, doesn't
        it!!

        Mish
      • ctecvie
        Hello Mish and all, ... ************************* ... or, if they don t borrow them, they sometimes just grossly exaggerate them. On huchat recently, an
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 26, 2006
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          Hello Mish and all,

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
          <mishmisha9@...> wrote:

          > good comments and thoughts, you guys!
          >
          > Chelas are encouraged to "borrow" spiritual stories when they give
          > talks at intros and workshops in order to sucker new people into
          >the
          > org.

          *************************
          ... or, if they don't "borrow" them, they sometimes just grossly
          exaggerate them. On huchat recently, an eckist was moving from
          Montana to Minnesota. And I quote:
          "When I left Montana last Friday evening, fires broke out all around
          me, really spooky. Ash covered the road, thousands of acres burned
          and are still burning, even around Billings. Pounding rain, lightning
          strikes all around me. It was the trip of my life. I finally pulled
          out of this mess driving east and through North Dakota, but a quarter
          through North Dakota I saw a cloud that kept lighting up and as I
          drove closer to Minnesota, again lightning all around
          me. But Minnesota is too moist to catch fire." Unquote

          Well, how does that sound? To me, it sounds as if the fires had
          broken out because of the move of this lady. She seems to consider
          herself very much an eck master. When asked, she never says so
          directly of course, but she never denies it either! LOL!

          Asked for the reasons of her move, she states this: "Reason why I
          moved? The Mahanta told me so :-)". And then she goes on saying "The
          outer signs were as follows ..." Well, I don't really see what "the
          mahanta told her so" LOL!

          *************************

          >At some worship services, someone will stand at the back of the
          > room (without being announced) and play a few notes on a flute
          >while
          > the group is singing Hu--real blatant trickery! Stories are very
          > often embellished, either intentionally or because the story teller
          > is delusional--it is all taken as "truth." There is so much fakery,
          > and yet, the chelas accept it as real or at the very least
          >possible,
          > because they want to believe in something greater than themselves.
          > Really sad!
          >
          > But what is really funny is to read some of the discussions on the
          > eck chat sites where some do disagree or try to correct someone
          > else's view--they can be very abrupt, and maybe even harsh, and
          > certainly narrow, but at the end of the post, they will sign off
          > with "love!" LOL! Just really ludicrous! I guess the disagreeable
          > poster found it necessary and true to disagree sharply, but signing
          > off with love made it kind??? Confusion abounds and grows, doesn't
          > it!!

          *************************
          Well, I think they just don't know how harsh they really are. They
          just suppress all the negativity and so cannot deal with their own
          aggressive streak because they don't even know they have it! I know
          many eckists that seem kind enough, but when they don't like
          something, they just won't react or respond. Sometimes this can be
          very unkind or a rebuke, too, towards the sender who might have had
          the kindest intentions!

          Ingrid
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Freefrom, You make some good points. Eckists become like everyone else when it comes to promoting their scam. By Any Means Necessary is one way to justify
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 26, 2006
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            Hi Freefrom,
            You make some good points. Eckists become like everyone else when it
            comes to promoting their scam. 'By Any Means Necessary' is one way
            to justify the use of negative methods (including deceit) to fight
            the Negative Force (Kal). Two negatives make a positive - right! As
            I implied, Eckists (including Klemp) use the same amoral methods of
            others to justify their missionary/vahana efforts, while feeding
            their own ego. Eckankar's narrow, distorted, jargon based and
            delusional and dogmatic thought processes feed and elevate the ego
            while blocking out and numbing Soul from higher consciousness - this
            is the true by-product of the vahana efforts for the individual
            Eckist. It has nothing to do with Love or the spreading of Truth!

            When Klemp, early on, inadvertantly admits in the PT info on
            Eckankar.org that Twitchell (born 1908) lied about meeting Sudar
            Singh (970th LEM) in India in 1935 at the age of 27 when he was
            lying about his Who's Who achievements what does this say about Love
            or Truth!? Neither have anything to do with the creation of
            Eckankar! Eckankar is not an "Ancient Path" because it is a
            distorted and Werternized version of Radhasoami created by a
            professional liar!

            7th Initiates are Not 8ths on the Inner because the Eck Initiations
            have to be confirmed in the third and final stage on the outer.
            [Maters 4 Discourse, lesson 2] Besides, these "Inner Initiations"
            are false anyway. This is just a ploy to get Eckists to stick around
            when they really know that something is wrong with the Eck teachings
            and their fellow H.I.s. However, it is a clever technique that
            scammers use to put all the blame of guilt and shame (even karma)
            back on the chela/follower/true believer. Very clever, but nothing
            new here either.

            One more thing. When Klemp quotes the Christian Bible - I was just
            wondering about the World Consciousness when this was written versus
            the World Consciousness when Twitchell "wrote" his Eckankar
            information. Why is one still quoted while much of the other is not
            available or reprinted?

            Prometheus




            Freefrom wrote:
            Prometheus wrote:
            Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue... Twitchell twisted
            facts, and lied about everything. There are no Inner initiations or
            Eck Masters. Rebazar was really a fictionalized version of Kirpal!

            *** These differences in ethics and values just proves, even more
            so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation to higher
            consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of their
            belief system what is it that they really and truly believe in? What
            and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a person in
            authority tells them?

            ***Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
            embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
            Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?

            Freefrom:

            And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
            okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably NECESSARY.
            lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the eckankult
            ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if we can
            even call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the authoritarian
            cult mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the intellect and also
            the emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings is very important to
            a Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle management higher
            initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a whole new Cult
            meaning, that in reality is unkind, unloving, and untrue. Eckankult
            takes these little mundane lies that people engage in all the time
            out of courtesy, or whatever, to a completely different level, shall
            we say to a different plane of psuedo reality with their pseudo
            personality, LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o
          • mishmisha9
            Hi, All! I thought I d re-visit this topic thread from last July as it touches on why eckists can feel it is okay to lie--how they will justify the lie s
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 19, 2006
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              Hi, All!

              I thought I'd re-visit this topic thread from last July as it
              touches on why eckists can "feel" it is okay to lie--how they will
              justify the lie's need and purpose, just as other people do when
              they feel compelled to step away from the truth and substitute
              falsehoods. As you read down this thread, I would like to point out
              the reference I made to the trickery of someone playing a flute in
              the back of the room during an eck worship service. Most eckists and
              seekers attending the worship service that day were not aware that
              this individual was playing a few single notes on the flute during
              the "HU" and contemplation. However, as an intro to the "HU" and
              contemplation activity, it was mentioned that one might possibly
              hear a flute playing which would indicate the Soul plane (5th
              plane). I wonder how many individuals went away from that worship
              service believing that they had experienced/connected to the Soul
              plane during that contemplation activity? This is outright trickery
              for the purpose of keeping eckists delusional and to entice new
              people to join. The flute playing was arranged in advance by the
              spiritual service coordinator and the local director (both H.I.s)--
              it was not something the individual eckist decided to do on his own.
              There were new seekers at that worship service. There are members on
              Hu-Chat who witnessed and even participated in this deception at the
              eck worship service. I'm pulling this up again to show how the eck
              teachings by the very nature of its lies and deceptions mislead
              eckists into the practices of being liars and deceivers. Really sad.
              Unfortunately for them, they cannot point their fingers at the
              detractors this time when in fact these kal eckists are their own
              detractors of truth.

              Mish

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
              <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
              > <eckchains@> wrote:
              > >
              > > --- In
              EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...

              *** These differences in ethics and values just
              proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation
              to higher consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of
              their belief system what is it that they really and truly believe
              in? What and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a
              person in authority tells them?

              Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
              embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
              Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?

              Prometheus
              ***

              And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
              okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably
              NECESSARY. lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the
              eckankult ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if
              we can even call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the
              authoritarian cult mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the
              intellect and also the emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings
              is very important to a Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle
              management higher initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a
              whole new Cult meaning, that in reality is unkind, unloving, and
              untrue. Eckankult takes these little mundane lies that people engage
              in all the time out of courtesy, or whatever, to a completely
              different level, shall we say to a different plane of psuedo reality
              with their pseudo personality, LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o

              Freefrom

              ****************************************************
              good comments and thoughts, you guys!

              Chelas are encouraged to "borrow" spiritual stories when they give
              talks at intros and workshops in order to sucker new people into the
              org. At some worship services, someone will stand at the back of the
              room (without being announced) and play a few notes on a flute while
              the group is singing Hu--real blatant trickery! Stories are very
              often embellished, either intentionally or because the story teller
              is delusional--it is all taken as "truth." There is so much fakery,
              and yet, the chelas accept it as real or at the very least possible,
              because they want to believe in something greater than themselves.
              Really sad!

              But what is really funny is to read some of the discussions on the
              eck chat sites where some do disagree or try to correct someone
              else's view--they can be very abrupt, and maybe even harsh, and
              certainly narrow, but at the end of the post, they will sign off
              with "love!" LOL! Just really ludicrous! I guess the disagreeable
              poster found it necessary and true to disagree sharply, but signing
              off with love made it kind??? Confusion abounds and grows, doesn't
              it!!

              Mish
              >
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