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Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi All, It seems that many Eckists, and many people in general, don t mind people lying or exaggerating. I was watching a local TV NEWS station and there was a
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 19, 2006
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      Hi All,
      It seems that many Eckists, and many people in general, don't mind
      people lying or exaggerating. I was watching a local TV NEWS station
      and there was a segment about a survey done about lying. 40% of the
      people surveyed thought that it was okay to exaggerate the truth
      when telling a story. 33% of those surveyed thought it was okay to
      lie about one's age. There were two other cases where 33% of the
      people surveyed thought that lying on other issues were okay too.

      I can now understand better why many Eckists (including Klemp) think
      that the lies of that "rascal" Twitchell were no big deal for them.
      That's the thing with Eckists - they really aren't all that
      different from the general population. An Eckist may share the same
      Higher Initiation Circle with others and yet be miles apart on
      ethics and values. These differences in ethics and values just
      proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation
      to higher consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of
      their belief system what is it that they really and truly believe
      in? What and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a
      person in authority tells them?

      Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
      embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
      Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?

      Prometheus




      Mishmisha wrote:

      Thanks for this repost from a.r.e. The writer makes some excellent
      points. "Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue." But yet many who
      remain in Eckankar and those who have left knowing about the
      magnitude of untruths in the org still maintain the thought that
      there are so many valuable lessons and truths in the teachings to
      make it a necessary step in their spiritual unfoldment and
      advancement to higher planes, etc. They continue to praise this cult
      and its nerdy looking spiritual leader. They defend it and Klemp by
      claiming that we active anti-eckankar detractors have been stuck in
      some form of "anger," and that until we let go of this "anger" we
      will not be as knowing as they are and will not advance in our
      consciousness. These individuals remain stuck in the eck teachings
      that took away/deprived them of their critical thinking skills. They
      view criticism as being intolerant and perhaps even bigoted--LOL!
      They do not have a handle on what critical thinking and analysis is
      all about. Until they begin using their own critical thinking skills
      and reject the eck teachings in full, they are still being
      manipulated and controlled--they are still cultish! That in itself
      would be fine, but when they "preach" from this viewpoint they are
      also misleading others who might avoid being sucked into such cults.
      If these "highly evolved" individuals would be honest and used their
      critical thinking skills others could be spared! But they operate
      under the delusion that religions like eckankar are a necessary link
      to advancing spiritually when in truth it is not and never has been
      necessary. These individuals just can't give it up!


      "Even tho I was a member and, indeed, one of the foundational
      persons responsible for the early growth and success of eckankar, it
      is still incomprehensible to me that in this day and age enough
      people are willing to set aside their god given critical minds and
      jump on the Magical Thinking bus that is ecknkar. . ."


      They surrender their critical minds because they want to believe in
      something they think is greater than themselves. They also cannot
      accept the fact that they were duped so long in the cult when they
      didn't use their critical thinking skills--it must be a sort of
      embarrassment for them to admit this flaw, so they create more
      delusion in their minds, skirting around their critical thinking
      talents. They even try to quiet those of us who are being
      critical. So you have eckists and non-eckists, both, still operating
      from the "no critical thinking mode"--they still embrace much of the
      teachings thinking they are spiritually advancing and still above
      the fray of life! They enjoy the level of arrogance that they have
      been taught in that they still believe that they are chosen and
      better than others. (Here's a thought, have you ever heard anyone in
      any religion say that they weren't the chosen of God?--everyone
      believes that their religous group is chosen and better than all
      others--how can this be?? LOL!). These same individuals can't even
      think to blame Harold Klemp for continuing the lies! This is
      unfortunate for Klemp in that he is encouraged to continue the lies
      and feels justified. He certainly is stuck also--and will most
      likely end his days feeling that he is a justified fraud--defending
      Klemp is not helping him. Too bad for Klemp really! Talk about a
      Catch 22! : )


      "I guess PT, (no, not Paul Twit) was right. There IS a sucker born
      every minute. . . ."


      Why do I keep imagining that Paul Twit had these same thoughts as he
      carried the cult money to his bank! I'm sure that this thought also
      goes through H. Klemp's mind too, but I'm sure he is not quite as
      honest with it--as I think Klemp is the most delusional of all!

      Mish
    • Freefrom
      ... Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue... *** These differences in ethics and values just proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 24, 2006
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        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...

        *** These differences in ethics and values just
        proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation
        to higher consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of
        their belief system what is it that they really and truly believe
        in? What and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a
        person in authority tells them?

        Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
        embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
        Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?

        Prometheus
        ***

        And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
        okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably NECESSARY.
        lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the eckankult
        ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if we can even
        call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the authoritarian cult
        mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the intellect and also the
        emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings is very important to a
        Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle management higher
        initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a whole new Cult meaning,
        that in reality is unkind, unloving, and untrue. Eckankult takes these
        little mundane lies that people engage in all the time out of
        courtesy, or whatever, to a completely different level, shall we say
        to a different plane of psuedo reality with their pseudo personality,
        LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o

        Freefrom
      • mishmisha9
        ... NECESSARY. ... even ... meaning, ... these ... say ... personality, ... **************************************************** good comments and thoughts,
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 25, 2006
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          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
          <eckchains@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
          > >
          > Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...
          >
          > *** These differences in ethics and values just
          > proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation
          > to higher consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of
          > their belief system what is it that they really and truly believe
          > in? What and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a
          > person in authority tells them?
          >
          > Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
          > embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
          > Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?
          >
          > Prometheus
          > ***
          >
          > And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
          > okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably
          NECESSARY.
          > lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the eckankult
          > ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if we can
          even
          > call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the authoritarian cult
          > mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the intellect and also the
          > emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings is very important to a
          > Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle management higher
          > initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a whole new Cult
          meaning,
          > that in reality is unkind, unloving, and untrue. Eckankult takes
          these
          > little mundane lies that people engage in all the time out of
          > courtesy, or whatever, to a completely different level, shall we
          say
          > to a different plane of psuedo reality with their pseudo
          personality,
          > LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o
          >
          > Freefrom
          >

          ****************************************************
          good comments and thoughts, you guys!

          Chelas are encouraged to "borrow" spiritual stories when they give
          talks at intros and workshops in order to sucker new people into the
          org. At some worship services, someone will stand at the back of the
          room (without being announced) and play a few notes on a flute while
          the group is singing Hu--real blatant trickery! Stories are very
          often embellished, either intentionally or because the story teller
          is delusional--it is all taken as "truth." There is so much fakery,
          and yet, the chelas accept it as real or at the very least possible,
          because they want to believe in something greater than themselves.
          Really sad!

          But what is really funny is to read some of the discussions on the
          eck chat sites where some do disagree or try to correct someone
          else's view--they can be very abrupt, and maybe even harsh, and
          certainly narrow, but at the end of the post, they will sign off
          with "love!" LOL! Just really ludicrous! I guess the disagreeable
          poster found it necessary and true to disagree sharply, but signing
          off with love made it kind??? Confusion abounds and grows, doesn't
          it!!

          Mish
        • ctecvie
          Hello Mish and all, ... ************************* ... or, if they don t borrow them, they sometimes just grossly exaggerate them. On huchat recently, an
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 26, 2006
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            Hello Mish and all,

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
            <mishmisha9@...> wrote:

            > good comments and thoughts, you guys!
            >
            > Chelas are encouraged to "borrow" spiritual stories when they give
            > talks at intros and workshops in order to sucker new people into
            >the
            > org.

            *************************
            ... or, if they don't "borrow" them, they sometimes just grossly
            exaggerate them. On huchat recently, an eckist was moving from
            Montana to Minnesota. And I quote:
            "When I left Montana last Friday evening, fires broke out all around
            me, really spooky. Ash covered the road, thousands of acres burned
            and are still burning, even around Billings. Pounding rain, lightning
            strikes all around me. It was the trip of my life. I finally pulled
            out of this mess driving east and through North Dakota, but a quarter
            through North Dakota I saw a cloud that kept lighting up and as I
            drove closer to Minnesota, again lightning all around
            me. But Minnesota is too moist to catch fire." Unquote

            Well, how does that sound? To me, it sounds as if the fires had
            broken out because of the move of this lady. She seems to consider
            herself very much an eck master. When asked, she never says so
            directly of course, but she never denies it either! LOL!

            Asked for the reasons of her move, she states this: "Reason why I
            moved? The Mahanta told me so :-)". And then she goes on saying "The
            outer signs were as follows ..." Well, I don't really see what "the
            mahanta told her so" LOL!

            *************************

            >At some worship services, someone will stand at the back of the
            > room (without being announced) and play a few notes on a flute
            >while
            > the group is singing Hu--real blatant trickery! Stories are very
            > often embellished, either intentionally or because the story teller
            > is delusional--it is all taken as "truth." There is so much fakery,
            > and yet, the chelas accept it as real or at the very least
            >possible,
            > because they want to believe in something greater than themselves.
            > Really sad!
            >
            > But what is really funny is to read some of the discussions on the
            > eck chat sites where some do disagree or try to correct someone
            > else's view--they can be very abrupt, and maybe even harsh, and
            > certainly narrow, but at the end of the post, they will sign off
            > with "love!" LOL! Just really ludicrous! I guess the disagreeable
            > poster found it necessary and true to disagree sharply, but signing
            > off with love made it kind??? Confusion abounds and grows, doesn't
            > it!!

            *************************
            Well, I think they just don't know how harsh they really are. They
            just suppress all the negativity and so cannot deal with their own
            aggressive streak because they don't even know they have it! I know
            many eckists that seem kind enough, but when they don't like
            something, they just won't react or respond. Sometimes this can be
            very unkind or a rebuke, too, towards the sender who might have had
            the kindest intentions!

            Ingrid
          • prometheus_973
            Hi Freefrom, You make some good points. Eckists become like everyone else when it comes to promoting their scam. By Any Means Necessary is one way to justify
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 26, 2006
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              Hi Freefrom,
              You make some good points. Eckists become like everyone else when it
              comes to promoting their scam. 'By Any Means Necessary' is one way
              to justify the use of negative methods (including deceit) to fight
              the Negative Force (Kal). Two negatives make a positive - right! As
              I implied, Eckists (including Klemp) use the same amoral methods of
              others to justify their missionary/vahana efforts, while feeding
              their own ego. Eckankar's narrow, distorted, jargon based and
              delusional and dogmatic thought processes feed and elevate the ego
              while blocking out and numbing Soul from higher consciousness - this
              is the true by-product of the vahana efforts for the individual
              Eckist. It has nothing to do with Love or the spreading of Truth!

              When Klemp, early on, inadvertantly admits in the PT info on
              Eckankar.org that Twitchell (born 1908) lied about meeting Sudar
              Singh (970th LEM) in India in 1935 at the age of 27 when he was
              lying about his Who's Who achievements what does this say about Love
              or Truth!? Neither have anything to do with the creation of
              Eckankar! Eckankar is not an "Ancient Path" because it is a
              distorted and Werternized version of Radhasoami created by a
              professional liar!

              7th Initiates are Not 8ths on the Inner because the Eck Initiations
              have to be confirmed in the third and final stage on the outer.
              [Maters 4 Discourse, lesson 2] Besides, these "Inner Initiations"
              are false anyway. This is just a ploy to get Eckists to stick around
              when they really know that something is wrong with the Eck teachings
              and their fellow H.I.s. However, it is a clever technique that
              scammers use to put all the blame of guilt and shame (even karma)
              back on the chela/follower/true believer. Very clever, but nothing
              new here either.

              One more thing. When Klemp quotes the Christian Bible - I was just
              wondering about the World Consciousness when this was written versus
              the World Consciousness when Twitchell "wrote" his Eckankar
              information. Why is one still quoted while much of the other is not
              available or reprinted?

              Prometheus




              Freefrom wrote:
              Prometheus wrote:
              Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue... Twitchell twisted
              facts, and lied about everything. There are no Inner initiations or
              Eck Masters. Rebazar was really a fictionalized version of Kirpal!

              *** These differences in ethics and values just proves, even more
              so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation to higher
              consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of their
              belief system what is it that they really and truly believe in? What
              and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a person in
              authority tells them?

              ***Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
              embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
              Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?

              Freefrom:

              And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
              okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably NECESSARY.
              lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the eckankult
              ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if we can
              even call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the authoritarian
              cult mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the intellect and also
              the emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings is very important to
              a Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle management higher
              initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a whole new Cult
              meaning, that in reality is unkind, unloving, and untrue. Eckankult
              takes these little mundane lies that people engage in all the time
              out of courtesy, or whatever, to a completely different level, shall
              we say to a different plane of psuedo reality with their pseudo
              personality, LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o
            • mishmisha9
              Hi, All! I thought I d re-visit this topic thread from last July as it touches on why eckists can feel it is okay to lie--how they will justify the lie s
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 19, 2006
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                Hi, All!

                I thought I'd re-visit this topic thread from last July as it
                touches on why eckists can "feel" it is okay to lie--how they will
                justify the lie's need and purpose, just as other people do when
                they feel compelled to step away from the truth and substitute
                falsehoods. As you read down this thread, I would like to point out
                the reference I made to the trickery of someone playing a flute in
                the back of the room during an eck worship service. Most eckists and
                seekers attending the worship service that day were not aware that
                this individual was playing a few single notes on the flute during
                the "HU" and contemplation. However, as an intro to the "HU" and
                contemplation activity, it was mentioned that one might possibly
                hear a flute playing which would indicate the Soul plane (5th
                plane). I wonder how many individuals went away from that worship
                service believing that they had experienced/connected to the Soul
                plane during that contemplation activity? This is outright trickery
                for the purpose of keeping eckists delusional and to entice new
                people to join. The flute playing was arranged in advance by the
                spiritual service coordinator and the local director (both H.I.s)--
                it was not something the individual eckist decided to do on his own.
                There were new seekers at that worship service. There are members on
                Hu-Chat who witnessed and even participated in this deception at the
                eck worship service. I'm pulling this up again to show how the eck
                teachings by the very nature of its lies and deceptions mislead
                eckists into the practices of being liars and deceivers. Really sad.
                Unfortunately for them, they cannot point their fingers at the
                detractors this time when in fact these kal eckists are their own
                detractors of truth.

                Mish

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
                > <eckchains@> wrote:
                > >
                > > --- In
                EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...

                *** These differences in ethics and values just
                proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation
                to higher consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of
                their belief system what is it that they really and truly believe
                in? What and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a
                person in authority tells them?

                Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
                embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
                Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?

                Prometheus
                ***

                And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
                okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably
                NECESSARY. lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the
                eckankult ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if
                we can even call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the
                authoritarian cult mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the
                intellect and also the emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings
                is very important to a Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle
                management higher initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a
                whole new Cult meaning, that in reality is unkind, unloving, and
                untrue. Eckankult takes these little mundane lies that people engage
                in all the time out of courtesy, or whatever, to a completely
                different level, shall we say to a different plane of psuedo reality
                with their pseudo personality, LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o

                Freefrom

                ****************************************************
                good comments and thoughts, you guys!

                Chelas are encouraged to "borrow" spiritual stories when they give
                talks at intros and workshops in order to sucker new people into the
                org. At some worship services, someone will stand at the back of the
                room (without being announced) and play a few notes on a flute while
                the group is singing Hu--real blatant trickery! Stories are very
                often embellished, either intentionally or because the story teller
                is delusional--it is all taken as "truth." There is so much fakery,
                and yet, the chelas accept it as real or at the very least possible,
                because they want to believe in something greater than themselves.
                Really sad!

                But what is really funny is to read some of the discussions on the
                eck chat sites where some do disagree or try to correct someone
                else's view--they can be very abrupt, and maybe even harsh, and
                certainly narrow, but at the end of the post, they will sign off
                with "love!" LOL! Just really ludicrous! I guess the disagreeable
                poster found it necessary and true to disagree sharply, but signing
                off with love made it kind??? Confusion abounds and grows, doesn't
                it!!

                Mish
                >
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