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Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...

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  • ctecvie
    I forward this from a.r.e.! :-) ************************************************* by Harold Gross Jul 17, 2006 at 10:22
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 17, 2006
      I forward this from a.r.e.! :-)

      *************************************************

      by "Harold Gross" <DarwinTwitchell@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jul 17, 2006
      at 10:22 AM


      Most of what eekankar teaches is untrue. In addition to the threat of
      dire consequences upon leaving, eekankur maintains that it is the
      "fastest & best" spiritual teaching on the planet, that it's leader
      (a
      failed seminarian with a history of mental problems) is the spiritual
      Pole, the keeper of the Rod of Power, the highest evolved state of
      consciousness in the universes. And that spiritual unfoldment is
      linear. That is, you qualify (basically thru your longevity in
      eckankar) for "initiations" that roughly correspond to the various
      planes of existence. These bogus initiations are given by proxy
      wherein
      the initiator (Rich is one, if you can believe that) picks a charged
      "word" off a list provided by HQ which the initiate is to chant, er,
      sing while visualizing Harold Klempji (a Mr. Peabody look-alike) in
      their third eye. According to eekankur, Harold is "always with you".
      (and your money, one would suppose.)

      FYI, according to Paul Twitchell, the founder of eekankar, Jesus was
      a
      2nd initiate, three levels below that of Rich and two levels below
      that
      of Cher. Now, that should give you pause, eh?

      Here is an outsider's take on eekankr. A take that I, as a front row
      observer and participant of and in the initial success of eekankra,
      can
      find little fault with:

      I have not studied Paul's books in any great depth. I read two or
      three, including "Eckankar", in the early seventies, after I became
      an
      initiate of Kirpal Singh. To be blunt, I found them to be a curious
      hodge-podge of concepts, clipped and patched from a lot of different
      sources, clumped together in loosely coherent chapters, all of which
      overlayed a Sant Mat background. I didn't know he was a fellow Kirpal
      Singh initiate when I read them. Kirpal didn't make a big public
      stink
      about Paul, at least not that I ever heard. I found out when I wrote
      a
      letter to my guru asking him what he could tell me about Eckankar,
      and
      he wrote back saying that Paul was an disciple who made good early
      progress, but was deluded by Kal into thinking he had reached Sach
      Khand. The Master power still watched over him, to help him when he
      turned away from Kal. When I received this information, the Sant Mat
      background made sense.

      Looking through 'Eckankar', now, I still receive the same impression.

      Look, Paul didn't even get the term Eckankar right. It is a form of
      ek
      omkar. It is pronounced eck-ohng-kar. Ek means one, in this case, the
      Absolute One. Omkar is the creative Om, the shabd. Paul says it means
      'co-worker with God'. It doesn't. If he wanted a Sanskrit or Tibetan
      term meaning 'co-worker with God', I'm sure there were lots to those
      from. Paul probably got the term from the 'Jap Ji', the first hymn of
      the Granth Sahib, the Sikh scripture. Ek Omkar is the first phrase of
      the 'Jap Ji'. Paul would have known about the 'Jap Ji' because Kirpal
      Singh did a translation of it, that was published well before Paul
      died. Kirpal Singh translated Ek Omkar to mean, the One, the
      unmanifested Word made manifest.

      I can't speak for other Kirpal disciples, but I do not consider
      Eckankar to be a form of Sant Mat. In Sant Mat, initiation is free.
      In
      the modern form, there is only one initiation. The guru lives on his
      own income. Kirpal Singh would accept donations for the mission only
      from initiates. We were never asked to donate. Most of us donated
      what
      we could. Paul apparently made a lot of money from Eckankar. I guess
      I
      would say I think Paul didn't really want to mislead anybody,
      probably
      thought he was doing humanity a service, presented sort of Sant Mat
      teachings, as modified by him, and didn't see anything wrong in
      making
      a buck or two, while he was at it.

      End quote.

      "making a buck or two" is the understatement of the century. This is
      the elephant in the living room that all good Ekkites in their
      naivete
      and unworldliness ignore. They can't seem to grasp that Paul, like
      any
      other swinging dick in history, was primarily motivated by all things
      human. A young and pretty wife, money, and prestige. He appears to
      have
      been a Mythomaniac and a pathological liar. His so-called biography,
      "In My Soul, I am Free" is a pack of lies and distortions. He seems
      to
      have been one of those people who would lie even when the truth would
      serve them better. Go figure.

      Even tho I was a member and, indeed, one of the foundational persons
      responsible for the early growth and success of eckankra, it is still
      incomprehensible to me that in this day and age enough people are
      willing to set aside their god-given critical minds and jump on the
      Magical Thinking bus that is ecknkar.

      I guess P.T. (no, not Paul Twit) was right. There IS a sucker born
      every minute....

      Harold Gross
    • mishmisha9
      Thanks for this repost from a.r.e. The writer makes some excellent points. Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue. But yet many who remain in Eckankar and
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 19, 2006
        Thanks for this repost from a.r.e. The writer makes some excellent
        points. "Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue." But yet many who
        remain in Eckankar and those who have left knowing about the
        magnitude of untruths in the org still maintain the thought that
        there are so many valuable lessons and truths in the teachings to
        make it a necessary step in their spiritual unfoldment and
        advancement to higher planes, etc. They continue to praise this cult
        and its nerdy looking spiritual leader. They defend it and Klemp by
        claiming that we active anti-eckankar detractors have been stuck in
        some form of "anger," and that until we let go of this "anger" we
        will not be as knowing as they are and will not advance in our
        consciousness. These individuals remain stuck in the eck teachings
        that took away/deprived them of their critical thinking skills. They
        view criticism as being intolerant and perhaps even bigoted--LOL!
        They do not have a handle on what critical thinking and analysis is
        all about. Until they begin using their own critical thinking skills
        and reject the eck teachings in full, they are still being
        manipulated and controlled--they are still cultish! That in itself
        would be fine, but when they "preach" from this viewpoint they are
        also misleading others who might avoid being sucked into such cults.
        If these "highly evolved" individuals would be honest and used their
        critical thinking skills others could be spared! But they operate
        under the delusion that religions like eckankar are a necessary link
        to advancing spiritually when in truth it is not and never has been
        necessary. These individuals just can't give it up!

        "Even tho I was a member and, indeed, one of the foundational
        persons responsible for the early growth and success of eckankar, it
        is still incomprehensible to me that in this day and age enough
        people are willing to set aside their god given critical minds and
        jump on the Magical Thinking bus that is ecknkar. . ."

        They surrender their critical minds because they want to believe in
        something they think is greater than themselves. They also cannot
        accept the fact that they were duped so long in the cult when they
        didn't use their critical thinking skills--it must be a sort of
        embarrassment for them to admit this flaw, so they create more
        delusion in their minds, skirting around their critical thinking
        talents. They even try to quiet those of us who are being
        critical. So you have eckists and non-eckists, both, still operating
        from the "no critical thinking mode"--they still embrace much of the
        teachings thinking they are spiritually advancing and still above
        the fray of life! They enjoy the level of arrogance that they have
        been taught in that they still believe that they are chosen and
        better than others. (Here's a thought, have you ever heard anyone in
        any religion say that they weren't the chosen of God?--everyone
        believes that their religous group is chosen and better than all
        others--how can this be?? LOL!). These same individuals can't even
        think to blame Harold Klemp for continuing the lies! This is
        unfortunate for Klemp in that he is encouraged to continue the lies
        and feels justified. He certainly is stuck also--and will most
        likely end his days feeling that he is a justified fraud--defending
        Klemp is not helping him. Too bad for Klemp really! Talk about a
        Catch 22! : )

        "I guess PT, (no, not Paul Twit) was right. There IS a sucker born
        every minute. . . ."

        Why do I keep imagining that Paul Twit had these same thoughts as he
        carried the cult money to his bank! I'm sure that this thought also
        goes through H. Klemp's mind too, but I'm sure he is not quite as
        honest with it--as I think Klemp is the most delusional of all!

        Mish

        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
        > <ctecvie@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I forward this from a.r.e.! :-)
        > >
        > > *************************************************
        > >
        > > by "Harold Gross" <DarwinTwitchell@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jul 17,
        > 2006
        > > at 10:22 AM
        > >
        > >
        > > Most of what eekankar teaches is untrue. In addition to the
        threat
        > of
        > > dire consequences upon leaving, eekankur maintains that it is the
        > > "fastest & best" spiritual teaching on the planet, that it's
        > leader
        > > (a
        > > failed seminarian with a history of mental problems) is the
        > spiritual
        > > Pole, the keeper of the Rod of Power, the highest evolved state
        of
        > > consciousness in the universes. And that spiritual unfoldment is
        > > linear. That is, you qualify (basically thru your longevity in
        > > eckankar) for "initiations" that roughly correspond to the
        various
        > > planes of existence. These bogus initiations are given by proxy
        > > wherein
        > > the initiator (Rich is one, if you can believe that) picks a
        > charged
        > > "word" off a list provided by HQ which the initiate is to chant,
        > er,
        > > sing while visualizing Harold Klempji (a Mr. Peabody look-alike)
        in
        > > their third eye. According to eekankur, Harold is "always with
        > you".
        > > (and your money, one would suppose.)
        > >
        > > FYI, according to Paul Twitchell, the founder of eekankar, Jesus
        > was
        > > a
        > > 2nd initiate, three levels below that of Rich and two levels
        below
        > > that
        > > of Cher. Now, that should give you pause, eh?
        > >
        > > Here is an outsider's take on eekankr. A take that I, as a front
        > row
        > > observer and participant of and in the initial success of
        > eekankra,
        > > can
        > > find little fault with:
        > >
        > > I have not studied Paul's books in any great depth. I read two or
        > > three, including "Eckankar", in the early seventies, after I
        > became
        > > an
        > > initiate of Kirpal Singh. To be blunt, I found them to be a
        curious
        > > hodge-podge of concepts, clipped and patched from a lot of
        > different
        > > sources, clumped together in loosely coherent chapters, all of
        > which
        > > overlayed a Sant Mat background. I didn't know he was a fellow
        > Kirpal
        > > Singh initiate when I read them. Kirpal didn't make a big public
        > > stink
        > > about Paul, at least not that I ever heard. I found out when I
        > wrote
        > > a
        > > letter to my guru asking him what he could tell me about
        Eckankar,
        > > and
        > > he wrote back saying that Paul was an disciple who made good
        early
        > > progress, but was deluded by Kal into thinking he had reached
        Sach
        > > Khand. The Master power still watched over him, to help him when
        he
        > > turned away from Kal. When I received this information, the Sant
        > Mat
        > > background made sense.
        > >
        > > Looking through 'Eckankar', now, I still receive the same
        > impression.
        > >
        > > Look, Paul didn't even get the term Eckankar right. It is a form
        > of
        > > ek
        > > omkar. It is pronounced eck-ohng-kar. Ek means one, in this
        case,
        > the
        > > Absolute One. Omkar is the creative Om, the shabd. Paul says it
        > means
        > > 'co-worker with God'. It doesn't. If he wanted a Sanskrit or
        > Tibetan
        > > term meaning 'co-worker with God', I'm sure there were lots to
        > those
        > > from. Paul probably got the term from the 'Jap Ji', the first
        hymn
        > of
        > > the Granth Sahib, the Sikh scripture. Ek Omkar is the first
        phrase
        > of
        > > the 'Jap Ji'. Paul would have known about the 'Jap Ji' because
        > Kirpal
        > > Singh did a translation of it, that was published well before
        Paul
        > > died. Kirpal Singh translated Ek Omkar to mean, the One, the
        > > unmanifested Word made manifest.
        > >
        > > I can't speak for other Kirpal disciples, but I do not consider
        > > Eckankar to be a form of Sant Mat. In Sant Mat, initiation is
        > free.
        > > In
        > > the modern form, there is only one initiation. The guru lives on
        > his
        > > own income. Kirpal Singh would accept donations for the mission
        > only
        > > from initiates. We were never asked to donate. Most of us
        donated
        > > what
        > > we could. Paul apparently made a lot of money from Eckankar. I
        > guess
        > > I
        > > would say I think Paul didn't really want to mislead anybody,
        > > probably
        > > thought he was doing humanity a service, presented sort of Sant
        Mat
        > > teachings, as modified by him, and didn't see anything wrong in
        > > making
        > > a buck or two, while he was at it.
        > >
        > > End quote.
        > >
        > > "making a buck or two" is the understatement of the century.
        This
        > is
        > > the elephant in the living room that all good Ekkites in their
        > > naivete
        > > and unworldliness ignore. They can't seem to grasp that Paul,
        like
        > > any
        > > other swinging dick in history, was primarily motivated by all
        > things
        > > human. A young and pretty wife, money, and prestige. He appears
        to
        > > have
        > > been a Mythomaniac and a pathological liar. His so-called
        > biography,
        > > "In My Soul, I am Free" is a pack of lies and distortions. He
        > seems
        > > to
        > > have been one of those people who would lie even when the truth
        > would
        > > serve them better. Go figure.
        > >
        > > Even tho I was a member and, indeed, one of the foundational
        > persons
        > > responsible for the early growth and success of eckankra, it is
        > still
        > > incomprehensible to me that in this day and age enough people are
        > > willing to set aside their god-given critical minds and jump on
        the
        > > Magical Thinking bus that is ecknkar.
        > >
        > > I guess P.T. (no, not Paul Twit) was right. There IS a sucker
        born
        > > every minute....
        > >
        > > Harold Gross
        > >
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hi All, It seems that many Eckists, and many people in general, don t mind people lying or exaggerating. I was watching a local TV NEWS station and there was a
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 19, 2006
          Hi All,
          It seems that many Eckists, and many people in general, don't mind
          people lying or exaggerating. I was watching a local TV NEWS station
          and there was a segment about a survey done about lying. 40% of the
          people surveyed thought that it was okay to exaggerate the truth
          when telling a story. 33% of those surveyed thought it was okay to
          lie about one's age. There were two other cases where 33% of the
          people surveyed thought that lying on other issues were okay too.

          I can now understand better why many Eckists (including Klemp) think
          that the lies of that "rascal" Twitchell were no big deal for them.
          That's the thing with Eckists - they really aren't all that
          different from the general population. An Eckist may share the same
          Higher Initiation Circle with others and yet be miles apart on
          ethics and values. These differences in ethics and values just
          proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation
          to higher consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of
          their belief system what is it that they really and truly believe
          in? What and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a
          person in authority tells them?

          Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
          embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
          Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?

          Prometheus




          Mishmisha wrote:

          Thanks for this repost from a.r.e. The writer makes some excellent
          points. "Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue." But yet many who
          remain in Eckankar and those who have left knowing about the
          magnitude of untruths in the org still maintain the thought that
          there are so many valuable lessons and truths in the teachings to
          make it a necessary step in their spiritual unfoldment and
          advancement to higher planes, etc. They continue to praise this cult
          and its nerdy looking spiritual leader. They defend it and Klemp by
          claiming that we active anti-eckankar detractors have been stuck in
          some form of "anger," and that until we let go of this "anger" we
          will not be as knowing as they are and will not advance in our
          consciousness. These individuals remain stuck in the eck teachings
          that took away/deprived them of their critical thinking skills. They
          view criticism as being intolerant and perhaps even bigoted--LOL!
          They do not have a handle on what critical thinking and analysis is
          all about. Until they begin using their own critical thinking skills
          and reject the eck teachings in full, they are still being
          manipulated and controlled--they are still cultish! That in itself
          would be fine, but when they "preach" from this viewpoint they are
          also misleading others who might avoid being sucked into such cults.
          If these "highly evolved" individuals would be honest and used their
          critical thinking skills others could be spared! But they operate
          under the delusion that religions like eckankar are a necessary link
          to advancing spiritually when in truth it is not and never has been
          necessary. These individuals just can't give it up!


          "Even tho I was a member and, indeed, one of the foundational
          persons responsible for the early growth and success of eckankar, it
          is still incomprehensible to me that in this day and age enough
          people are willing to set aside their god given critical minds and
          jump on the Magical Thinking bus that is ecknkar. . ."


          They surrender their critical minds because they want to believe in
          something they think is greater than themselves. They also cannot
          accept the fact that they were duped so long in the cult when they
          didn't use their critical thinking skills--it must be a sort of
          embarrassment for them to admit this flaw, so they create more
          delusion in their minds, skirting around their critical thinking
          talents. They even try to quiet those of us who are being
          critical. So you have eckists and non-eckists, both, still operating
          from the "no critical thinking mode"--they still embrace much of the
          teachings thinking they are spiritually advancing and still above
          the fray of life! They enjoy the level of arrogance that they have
          been taught in that they still believe that they are chosen and
          better than others. (Here's a thought, have you ever heard anyone in
          any religion say that they weren't the chosen of God?--everyone
          believes that their religous group is chosen and better than all
          others--how can this be?? LOL!). These same individuals can't even
          think to blame Harold Klemp for continuing the lies! This is
          unfortunate for Klemp in that he is encouraged to continue the lies
          and feels justified. He certainly is stuck also--and will most
          likely end his days feeling that he is a justified fraud--defending
          Klemp is not helping him. Too bad for Klemp really! Talk about a
          Catch 22! : )


          "I guess PT, (no, not Paul Twit) was right. There IS a sucker born
          every minute. . . ."


          Why do I keep imagining that Paul Twit had these same thoughts as he
          carried the cult money to his bank! I'm sure that this thought also
          goes through H. Klemp's mind too, but I'm sure he is not quite as
          honest with it--as I think Klemp is the most delusional of all!

          Mish
        • Freefrom
          ... Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue... *** These differences in ethics and values just proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 24, 2006
            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...

            *** These differences in ethics and values just
            proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation
            to higher consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of
            their belief system what is it that they really and truly believe
            in? What and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a
            person in authority tells them?

            Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
            embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
            Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?

            Prometheus
            ***

            And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
            okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably NECESSARY.
            lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the eckankult
            ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if we can even
            call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the authoritarian cult
            mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the intellect and also the
            emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings is very important to a
            Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle management higher
            initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a whole new Cult meaning,
            that in reality is unkind, unloving, and untrue. Eckankult takes these
            little mundane lies that people engage in all the time out of
            courtesy, or whatever, to a completely different level, shall we say
            to a different plane of psuedo reality with their pseudo personality,
            LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o

            Freefrom
          • mishmisha9
            ... NECESSARY. ... even ... meaning, ... these ... say ... personality, ... **************************************************** good comments and thoughts,
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 25, 2006
              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
              <eckchains@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
              > >
              > Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...
              >
              > *** These differences in ethics and values just
              > proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation
              > to higher consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of
              > their belief system what is it that they really and truly believe
              > in? What and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a
              > person in authority tells them?
              >
              > Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
              > embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
              > Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?
              >
              > Prometheus
              > ***
              >
              > And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
              > okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably
              NECESSARY.
              > lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the eckankult
              > ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if we can
              even
              > call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the authoritarian cult
              > mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the intellect and also the
              > emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings is very important to a
              > Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle management higher
              > initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a whole new Cult
              meaning,
              > that in reality is unkind, unloving, and untrue. Eckankult takes
              these
              > little mundane lies that people engage in all the time out of
              > courtesy, or whatever, to a completely different level, shall we
              say
              > to a different plane of psuedo reality with their pseudo
              personality,
              > LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o
              >
              > Freefrom
              >

              ****************************************************
              good comments and thoughts, you guys!

              Chelas are encouraged to "borrow" spiritual stories when they give
              talks at intros and workshops in order to sucker new people into the
              org. At some worship services, someone will stand at the back of the
              room (without being announced) and play a few notes on a flute while
              the group is singing Hu--real blatant trickery! Stories are very
              often embellished, either intentionally or because the story teller
              is delusional--it is all taken as "truth." There is so much fakery,
              and yet, the chelas accept it as real or at the very least possible,
              because they want to believe in something greater than themselves.
              Really sad!

              But what is really funny is to read some of the discussions on the
              eck chat sites where some do disagree or try to correct someone
              else's view--they can be very abrupt, and maybe even harsh, and
              certainly narrow, but at the end of the post, they will sign off
              with "love!" LOL! Just really ludicrous! I guess the disagreeable
              poster found it necessary and true to disagree sharply, but signing
              off with love made it kind??? Confusion abounds and grows, doesn't
              it!!

              Mish
            • ctecvie
              Hello Mish and all, ... ************************* ... or, if they don t borrow them, they sometimes just grossly exaggerate them. On huchat recently, an
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 26, 2006
                Hello Mish and all,

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                <mishmisha9@...> wrote:

                > good comments and thoughts, you guys!
                >
                > Chelas are encouraged to "borrow" spiritual stories when they give
                > talks at intros and workshops in order to sucker new people into
                >the
                > org.

                *************************
                ... or, if they don't "borrow" them, they sometimes just grossly
                exaggerate them. On huchat recently, an eckist was moving from
                Montana to Minnesota. And I quote:
                "When I left Montana last Friday evening, fires broke out all around
                me, really spooky. Ash covered the road, thousands of acres burned
                and are still burning, even around Billings. Pounding rain, lightning
                strikes all around me. It was the trip of my life. I finally pulled
                out of this mess driving east and through North Dakota, but a quarter
                through North Dakota I saw a cloud that kept lighting up and as I
                drove closer to Minnesota, again lightning all around
                me. But Minnesota is too moist to catch fire." Unquote

                Well, how does that sound? To me, it sounds as if the fires had
                broken out because of the move of this lady. She seems to consider
                herself very much an eck master. When asked, she never says so
                directly of course, but she never denies it either! LOL!

                Asked for the reasons of her move, she states this: "Reason why I
                moved? The Mahanta told me so :-)". And then she goes on saying "The
                outer signs were as follows ..." Well, I don't really see what "the
                mahanta told her so" LOL!

                *************************

                >At some worship services, someone will stand at the back of the
                > room (without being announced) and play a few notes on a flute
                >while
                > the group is singing Hu--real blatant trickery! Stories are very
                > often embellished, either intentionally or because the story teller
                > is delusional--it is all taken as "truth." There is so much fakery,
                > and yet, the chelas accept it as real or at the very least
                >possible,
                > because they want to believe in something greater than themselves.
                > Really sad!
                >
                > But what is really funny is to read some of the discussions on the
                > eck chat sites where some do disagree or try to correct someone
                > else's view--they can be very abrupt, and maybe even harsh, and
                > certainly narrow, but at the end of the post, they will sign off
                > with "love!" LOL! Just really ludicrous! I guess the disagreeable
                > poster found it necessary and true to disagree sharply, but signing
                > off with love made it kind??? Confusion abounds and grows, doesn't
                > it!!

                *************************
                Well, I think they just don't know how harsh they really are. They
                just suppress all the negativity and so cannot deal with their own
                aggressive streak because they don't even know they have it! I know
                many eckists that seem kind enough, but when they don't like
                something, they just won't react or respond. Sometimes this can be
                very unkind or a rebuke, too, towards the sender who might have had
                the kindest intentions!

                Ingrid
              • prometheus_973
                Hi Freefrom, You make some good points. Eckists become like everyone else when it comes to promoting their scam. By Any Means Necessary is one way to justify
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 26, 2006
                  Hi Freefrom,
                  You make some good points. Eckists become like everyone else when it
                  comes to promoting their scam. 'By Any Means Necessary' is one way
                  to justify the use of negative methods (including deceit) to fight
                  the Negative Force (Kal). Two negatives make a positive - right! As
                  I implied, Eckists (including Klemp) use the same amoral methods of
                  others to justify their missionary/vahana efforts, while feeding
                  their own ego. Eckankar's narrow, distorted, jargon based and
                  delusional and dogmatic thought processes feed and elevate the ego
                  while blocking out and numbing Soul from higher consciousness - this
                  is the true by-product of the vahana efforts for the individual
                  Eckist. It has nothing to do with Love or the spreading of Truth!

                  When Klemp, early on, inadvertantly admits in the PT info on
                  Eckankar.org that Twitchell (born 1908) lied about meeting Sudar
                  Singh (970th LEM) in India in 1935 at the age of 27 when he was
                  lying about his Who's Who achievements what does this say about Love
                  or Truth!? Neither have anything to do with the creation of
                  Eckankar! Eckankar is not an "Ancient Path" because it is a
                  distorted and Werternized version of Radhasoami created by a
                  professional liar!

                  7th Initiates are Not 8ths on the Inner because the Eck Initiations
                  have to be confirmed in the third and final stage on the outer.
                  [Maters 4 Discourse, lesson 2] Besides, these "Inner Initiations"
                  are false anyway. This is just a ploy to get Eckists to stick around
                  when they really know that something is wrong with the Eck teachings
                  and their fellow H.I.s. However, it is a clever technique that
                  scammers use to put all the blame of guilt and shame (even karma)
                  back on the chela/follower/true believer. Very clever, but nothing
                  new here either.

                  One more thing. When Klemp quotes the Christian Bible - I was just
                  wondering about the World Consciousness when this was written versus
                  the World Consciousness when Twitchell "wrote" his Eckankar
                  information. Why is one still quoted while much of the other is not
                  available or reprinted?

                  Prometheus




                  Freefrom wrote:
                  Prometheus wrote:
                  Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue... Twitchell twisted
                  facts, and lied about everything. There are no Inner initiations or
                  Eck Masters. Rebazar was really a fictionalized version of Kirpal!

                  *** These differences in ethics and values just proves, even more
                  so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation to higher
                  consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of their
                  belief system what is it that they really and truly believe in? What
                  and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a person in
                  authority tells them?

                  ***Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
                  embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
                  Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?

                  Freefrom:

                  And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
                  okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably NECESSARY.
                  lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the eckankult
                  ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if we can
                  even call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the authoritarian
                  cult mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the intellect and also
                  the emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings is very important to
                  a Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle management higher
                  initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a whole new Cult
                  meaning, that in reality is unkind, unloving, and untrue. Eckankult
                  takes these little mundane lies that people engage in all the time
                  out of courtesy, or whatever, to a completely different level, shall
                  we say to a different plane of psuedo reality with their pseudo
                  personality, LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o
                • mishmisha9
                  Hi, All! I thought I d re-visit this topic thread from last July as it touches on why eckists can feel it is okay to lie--how they will justify the lie s
                  Message 8 of 8 , Nov 19, 2006
                    Hi, All!

                    I thought I'd re-visit this topic thread from last July as it
                    touches on why eckists can "feel" it is okay to lie--how they will
                    justify the lie's need and purpose, just as other people do when
                    they feel compelled to step away from the truth and substitute
                    falsehoods. As you read down this thread, I would like to point out
                    the reference I made to the trickery of someone playing a flute in
                    the back of the room during an eck worship service. Most eckists and
                    seekers attending the worship service that day were not aware that
                    this individual was playing a few single notes on the flute during
                    the "HU" and contemplation. However, as an intro to the "HU" and
                    contemplation activity, it was mentioned that one might possibly
                    hear a flute playing which would indicate the Soul plane (5th
                    plane). I wonder how many individuals went away from that worship
                    service believing that they had experienced/connected to the Soul
                    plane during that contemplation activity? This is outright trickery
                    for the purpose of keeping eckists delusional and to entice new
                    people to join. The flute playing was arranged in advance by the
                    spiritual service coordinator and the local director (both H.I.s)--
                    it was not something the individual eckist decided to do on his own.
                    There were new seekers at that worship service. There are members on
                    Hu-Chat who witnessed and even participated in this deception at the
                    eck worship service. I'm pulling this up again to show how the eck
                    teachings by the very nature of its lies and deceptions mislead
                    eckists into the practices of being liars and deceivers. Really sad.
                    Unfortunately for them, they cannot point their fingers at the
                    detractors this time when in fact these kal eckists are their own
                    detractors of truth.

                    Mish

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                    <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
                    > <eckchains@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- In
                    EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                    > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > Re: Most of what Ekankar teaches is untrue...

                    *** These differences in ethics and values just
                    proves, even more so, that the Eck Initiations have no correlation
                    to higher consciousness. When people accept lies as being a part of
                    their belief system what is it that they really and truly believe
                    in? What and Who can they trust or do they trust everything that a
                    person in authority tells them?

                    Here's a discussion question for Satsang - Are some lies and
                    embellishments okay, and if so, which ones?! And, was it okay that
                    Twitchell made embellishments and twisted facts as HK has stated?

                    Prometheus
                    ***

                    And what would be the typical eckist answer? It's not only fine and
                    okay, but in their Twitch way of thinking, it is probably
                    NECESSARY. lol Therefore, it is also TRUE and KIND, kind in the
                    eckankult ruthless way. THis kind of compartmentalized thinking, if
                    we can even call it that, er thinking, is so typical of the
                    authoritarian cult mentality, the numbing, dumbing down of the
                    intellect and also the emotional life, IMO. Switching off feelings
                    is very important to a Cult leader like Harold Klemp and his middle
                    management higher initiates. The word "kind" then can take on a
                    whole new Cult meaning, that in reality is unkind, unloving, and
                    untrue. Eckankult takes these little mundane lies that people engage
                    in all the time out of courtesy, or whatever, to a completely
                    different level, shall we say to a different plane of psuedo reality
                    with their pseudo personality, LOL. It is truely unreal. ; o

                    Freefrom

                    ****************************************************
                    good comments and thoughts, you guys!

                    Chelas are encouraged to "borrow" spiritual stories when they give
                    talks at intros and workshops in order to sucker new people into the
                    org. At some worship services, someone will stand at the back of the
                    room (without being announced) and play a few notes on a flute while
                    the group is singing Hu--real blatant trickery! Stories are very
                    often embellished, either intentionally or because the story teller
                    is delusional--it is all taken as "truth." There is so much fakery,
                    and yet, the chelas accept it as real or at the very least possible,
                    because they want to believe in something greater than themselves.
                    Really sad!

                    But what is really funny is to read some of the discussions on the
                    eck chat sites where some do disagree or try to correct someone
                    else's view--they can be very abrupt, and maybe even harsh, and
                    certainly narrow, but at the end of the post, they will sign off
                    with "love!" LOL! Just really ludicrous! I guess the disagreeable
                    poster found it necessary and true to disagree sharply, but signing
                    off with love made it kind??? Confusion abounds and grows, doesn't
                    it!!

                    Mish
                    >
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