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Re: Eckankar: The Private Side vs. The Secret Side

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Again, It s an interesting mind control technique employed upon Eckists to have them think that Questioning indicates a Lack of Spiritual Consciousness.
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 1, 2006
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      Hi Again,
      It's an interesting mind control technique employed upon Eckists to
      have them think that "Questioning" indicates a Lack of Spiritual
      Consciousness. The "Ask the Master" ploy is to give the illusion
      that questions are okay to ask, but notice that none ask about the
      business side of Eckankar!

      The subject of Secrets is one that current Eckists should ponder. I
      welcome all to come in and share their views and experiences
      concerning the Private Side versus the Secret Side of Eckankar. I'll
      add some more comments since this was an area of contention for me,
      at times, and difficult to accept completely. I had to rationalize
      and accept things on blind faith because I knew that as an Eck
      Leader I could Not ask too many questions and, also, certain
      questions and subjects are strickly taboo! These are the Secrets of
      the Business Side of the org that are offlimit to almost every
      member. It's interesting to see that most Eckists don't even care
      about or notice the taboos since they either have their heads in the
      clouds or in a hole in the sand!

      Eckankar is No Longer a Secret Teaching! Why then are there still
      Secrets?! Why is Klemp afraid to let the Light of day shine on
      Eckankar's financial records? Why are the "historical" books of
      Twitchell taken out of print when Eckankar prints their own
      materials?

      The Truth is that there are things to hide because all religions are
      dishonest with their members. The elitist inner circle think that
      the masses are mindless children and can't handle the truth.
      However, these religions are based upon the distortions of real
      Truth and are manipulated by egos and the desires for power and
      other negativity of (mostly) men.

      I acknowledge SPIRIT daily and at the same time I reject all
      religion. I see all of the good and spiritual things in all
      religious belief, to a degree, as having some things that can be
      used individually for the advancement of Soul. The organization and
      business of money, membership, political control (fear & hatred) and
      of dogma, rules, and guidelines along with the leadership/master
      aspect of religion I completely reject! Religion is unnecessary for
      those Souls who can take charge of their own Spiritual Growth and
      are secure enough to be their own Master in this Here and Now!

      Later everyone-

      prometheus wrote:

      Hi Mish,
      I thought that I would respond to some of your comments and why
      Eckankar won't share financial info. (***)

      Mishmisha wrote:

      Hi, All!
      I've injected a couple of comments to Prometheus' post--please read
      below!

      Prometheus wrote:
      I was reading something where an Eckist, I think, was wondering
      where the private side of Eckankar began and the secret side of
      Eckankar ended! Eckankar was supposed to have been a Secret Teaching
      at one time and the Discourses are supposed to be Secret. However,
      Twitch just didn't want the public to see his plagiarized material
      for free! People have to pay for discourses/initiations via Eck
      membership.

      Prometheus: At one time Eckists were supposed to keep their inner
      experiences private. Sharing these private spiritual experiences is
      like casting pearls before swine - right? Why then are Eckists now
      encouraged and pressured (to a degree) to share their private inner
      experiences with the public? It's all about the Vahana/missionary
      effort and money!

      Mish: I was reading on an eck chat site a few weeks ago. This one
      eckist was giving tips on how to do talks with the public that were
      set up at local places, like bookstores and libraries, etc. He said
      that each presenter should have a story to tell and if they didn't
      have one, they could "use" one from Harold's talks, presenting it as
      their own. So you can see plagiarism is quite okay in getting
      the "eck" message out to the public in a deceptive way. Whatever
      works, it doesn't matter about the autheticity of it. That's not
      important to liars at all. Of course, suckering more people into the
      cult means more dollars for the org and of course its continuation--
      so that is what is more important than truth!

      ***Yes, where are the ethics and morals of these Eckists? Usually
      most Eckists (except for Klemp and other delusional ones) are
      ethical. Some people, however, never change and if they weren't
      ethical before Eckankar then chances are they won't be during or
      after their Eckankar membership either! One has to want to change
      and be willing and able to do the "Gnothe Seauton" process
      of 'knowing thyself' before one can know thy Self! Unfortunately,
      some people avoid this process because of whom they have become.
      Therefore, they (ego) now rationalizes every aspect of their lives
      because it is too difficult for them to admit the truth about "what"
      they have also become. And, this too gives them the illusion of
      control because they are able to manipulate those few or many around
      them through their deceit of friendliness which they use freely
      while talking about their own intelligence (vis 3rd person) and
      thinking how cunning they are. Afterall, they have outsmarted those
      with high level and multiple university degrees! In truth, however,
      they fear the world and have no beliefs outside of the realm of ego
      and what they perceive they can control in their closed little world.

      Prometheus: Klemp even wrote about a private Initiation experience,
      of an Eckist, that was shared with him in an Initiate Report! Some
      Eckists don't even know about the Secret Side of the cult. Many
      Eckists don't know anything about their local "Board." The RESA has
      a Board of officers and trustees and the names of these members are
      usually unknown. WHY? And, there is a "Board" at the ESC - who are
      they? There used to be a Spiritual Council... why was it disbanded
      and what took its place? However, most Eckists know little about any
      of this. How much money does the local Satsang Society have in the
      bank or invested? What amount of money comes in and what are the
      expendures and assets? The same questions can be applied to the ESC.
      Who's in charge, at the ESC, of Spiritual Services or Public
      Information, etc., etc.? Does Klemp own his copyrights or does
      Eckankar?

      Prometheus: Why are these Outer things so important to keep secret
      when Klemp doesn't keep the more important Inner things secret? This
      doesn't make sense, unless, there's something dishonest to hide!

      Mish: The Christian Church that I attended at one time while growing
      up has always kept me informed as to their bank accounts and the
      costs of maintaining their church, parish and other expenses. Even
      though I was never a formal member and I moved away (out of state
      and didn't inform them of my new address), I still receive their
      newsletters, and each year there is an accounting of their expenses
      for all to read. They don't mind who in the public is reading it
      obviously, because there is nothing to hide. : )

      ***Yes, it is amazing how some groups of people are honest and
      straight forward. Klemp claims that Eckankar moved to Minnesota, in
      part, due to the work ethic. But where are his ethics? Why does
      Eckankar hide their financial records? Actually, I'm told that this
      is the main reason as to why Eckankar moved to Minnesota. In
      Minnesota Non-Profit Organizations legally don't have to divulge
      financial info like they do in California.

      ***So, with all the money Darwin spent and the need for keeping
      financial records closed, the secrets on Twitchell that needed kept
      out of the media, the influence of other New Age groups in
      California upon Eckankar members, the more bang for your buck for
      building a temple in Minnesota, and a place where Klemp felt more at
      home and could hide out more easily - it seemed Minnesota was a good
      choice!

      ***I wonder how many other groups/churches hide their money and
      assets? It does kind of make you wonder why they're not willing to
      share this information doesn't it? I think that with Eckankar they
      use "trust" as a manipulative device. Don't Eckists "trust" the
      LEM/Mahanta? Maybe Klemp needs to demonstrate "trust" by revealing
      all of the financial records. As Above So Below!
    • Freefrom
      Hi Prometheus, I agree with you on questioning and how important it is to be inquisitive about this secret side of eckankar. Hidden is probably more the
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 5, 2006
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        Hi Prometheus,

        I agree with you on questioning and how important it is
        to be inquisitive about this "secret" side of eckankar. Hidden is
        probably more the truth. I am finding that questioning and curiosity
        is just a normal part of being alive. ONly the dead have no curiosity.
        They are dead! My cat has a very questioning meow when he doesn't
        understand something. The inflection and tone of voice goes up to a
        higher pitch. Questioning is something we are wired to do IMO. I
        remember as a child asking "WHY" all the time, so much that it drove
        the adults crazy, I'm sure. ANd anyone who has been around young
        children, knows that questioning and curiosity is an extremely strong
        drive, a will to understand what is the truth about things. Eckankult
        is NOT a true spiritual path because it denies it's members the right
        to ask any relevant question and declares such questions as just
        spiritual ignorance, which it is obviously not. You can't live in
        denial if you are curious, IMHO! I have also found that questioning is
        like an innoculation against destructive Cults. Cultists can't stand
        it and they will start shunning you and even chasing you away. What
        better way to find out if you are dealing with a destructive Cult than
        questioning, being naturally curious.

        Freefrom ; )

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Again,
        > It's an interesting mind control technique employed upon Eckists to
        > have them think that "Questioning" indicates a Lack of Spiritual
        > Consciousness. The "Ask the Master" ploy is to give the illusion
        > that questions are okay to ask, but notice that none ask about the
        > business side of Eckankar!
        >
        > The subject of Secrets is one that current Eckists should ponder. I
        > welcome all to come in and share their views and experiences
        > concerning the Private Side versus the Secret Side of Eckankar. I'll
        > add some more comments since this was an area of contention for me,
        > at times, and difficult to accept completely. I had to rationalize
        > and accept things on blind faith because I knew that as an Eck
        > Leader I could Not ask too many questions and, also, certain
        > questions and subjects are strickly taboo! These are the Secrets of
        > the Business Side of the org that are offlimit to almost every
        > member. It's interesting to see that most Eckists don't even care
        > about or notice the taboos since they either have their heads in the
        > clouds or in a hole in the sand!
        >
        > Eckankar is No Longer a Secret Teaching! Why then are there still
        > Secrets?! Why is Klemp afraid to let the Light of day shine on
        > Eckankar's financial records? Why are the "historical" books of
        > Twitchell taken out of print when Eckankar prints their own
        > materials?
        >
        > The Truth is that there are things to hide because all religions are
        > dishonest with their members. The elitist inner circle think that
        > the masses are mindless children and can't handle the truth.
        > However, these religions are based upon the distortions of real
        > Truth and are manipulated by egos and the desires for power and
        > other negativity of (mostly) men.
        >
        > I acknowledge SPIRIT daily and at the same time I reject all
        > religion. I see all of the good and spiritual things in all
        > religious belief, to a degree, as having some things that can be
        > used individually for the advancement of Soul. The organization and
        > business of money, membership, political control (fear & hatred) and
        > of dogma, rules, and guidelines along with the leadership/master
        > aspect of religion I completely reject! Religion is unnecessary for
        > those Souls who can take charge of their own Spiritual Growth and
        > are secure enough to be their own Master in this Here and Now!
        >
        > Later everyone-
        >
        > prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hi Mish,
        > I thought that I would respond to some of your comments and why
        > Eckankar won't share financial info. (***)
        >
        > Mishmisha wrote:
        >
        > Hi, All!
        > I've injected a couple of comments to Prometheus' post--please read
        > below!
        >
        > Prometheus wrote:
        > I was reading something where an Eckist, I think, was wondering
        > where the private side of Eckankar began and the secret side of
        > Eckankar ended! Eckankar was supposed to have been a Secret Teaching
        > at one time and the Discourses are supposed to be Secret. However,
        > Twitch just didn't want the public to see his plagiarized material
        > for free! People have to pay for discourses/initiations via Eck
        > membership.
        >
        > Prometheus: At one time Eckists were supposed to keep their inner
        > experiences private. Sharing these private spiritual experiences is
        > like casting pearls before swine - right? Why then are Eckists now
        > encouraged and pressured (to a degree) to share their private inner
        > experiences with the public? It's all about the Vahana/missionary
        > effort and money!
        >
        > Mish: I was reading on an eck chat site a few weeks ago. This one
        > eckist was giving tips on how to do talks with the public that were
        > set up at local places, like bookstores and libraries, etc. He said
        > that each presenter should have a story to tell and if they didn't
        > have one, they could "use" one from Harold's talks, presenting it as
        > their own. So you can see plagiarism is quite okay in getting
        > the "eck" message out to the public in a deceptive way. Whatever
        > works, it doesn't matter about the autheticity of it. That's not
        > important to liars at all. Of course, suckering more people into the
        > cult means more dollars for the org and of course its continuation--
        > so that is what is more important than truth!
        >
        > ***Yes, where are the ethics and morals of these Eckists? Usually
        > most Eckists (except for Klemp and other delusional ones) are
        > ethical. Some people, however, never change and if they weren't
        > ethical before Eckankar then chances are they won't be during or
        > after their Eckankar membership either! One has to want to change
        > and be willing and able to do the "Gnothe Seauton" process
        > of 'knowing thyself' before one can know thy Self! Unfortunately,
        > some people avoid this process because of whom they have become.
        > Therefore, they (ego) now rationalizes every aspect of their lives
        > because it is too difficult for them to admit the truth about "what"
        > they have also become. And, this too gives them the illusion of
        > control because they are able to manipulate those few or many around
        > them through their deceit of friendliness which they use freely
        > while talking about their own intelligence (vis 3rd person) and
        > thinking how cunning they are. Afterall, they have outsmarted those
        > with high level and multiple university degrees! In truth, however,
        > they fear the world and have no beliefs outside of the realm of ego
        > and what they perceive they can control in their closed little world.
        >
        > Prometheus: Klemp even wrote about a private Initiation experience,
        > of an Eckist, that was shared with him in an Initiate Report! Some
        > Eckists don't even know about the Secret Side of the cult. Many
        > Eckists don't know anything about their local "Board." The RESA has
        > a Board of officers and trustees and the names of these members are
        > usually unknown. WHY? And, there is a "Board" at the ESC - who are
        > they? There used to be a Spiritual Council... why was it disbanded
        > and what took its place? However, most Eckists know little about any
        > of this. How much money does the local Satsang Society have in the
        > bank or invested? What amount of money comes in and what are the
        > expendures and assets? The same questions can be applied to the ESC.
        > Who's in charge, at the ESC, of Spiritual Services or Public
        > Information, etc., etc.? Does Klemp own his copyrights or does
        > Eckankar?
        >
        > Prometheus: Why are these Outer things so important to keep secret
        > when Klemp doesn't keep the more important Inner things secret? This
        > doesn't make sense, unless, there's something dishonest to hide!
        >
        > Mish: The Christian Church that I attended at one time while growing
        > up has always kept me informed as to their bank accounts and the
        > costs of maintaining their church, parish and other expenses. Even
        > though I was never a formal member and I moved away (out of state
        > and didn't inform them of my new address), I still receive their
        > newsletters, and each year there is an accounting of their expenses
        > for all to read. They don't mind who in the public is reading it
        > obviously, because there is nothing to hide. : )
        >
        > ***Yes, it is amazing how some groups of people are honest and
        > straight forward. Klemp claims that Eckankar moved to Minnesota, in
        > part, due to the work ethic. But where are his ethics? Why does
        > Eckankar hide their financial records? Actually, I'm told that this
        > is the main reason as to why Eckankar moved to Minnesota. In
        > Minnesota Non-Profit Organizations legally don't have to divulge
        > financial info like they do in California.
        >
        > ***So, with all the money Darwin spent and the need for keeping
        > financial records closed, the secrets on Twitchell that needed kept
        > out of the media, the influence of other New Age groups in
        > California upon Eckankar members, the more bang for your buck for
        > building a temple in Minnesota, and a place where Klemp felt more at
        > home and could hide out more easily - it seemed Minnesota was a good
        > choice!
        >
        > ***I wonder how many other groups/churches hide their money and
        > assets? It does kind of make you wonder why they're not willing to
        > share this information doesn't it? I think that with Eckankar they
        > use "trust" as a manipulative device. Don't Eckists "trust" the
        > LEM/Mahanta? Maybe Klemp needs to demonstrate "trust" by revealing
        > all of the financial records. As Above So Below!
        >
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