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Re: Eckankar: The Private Side vs. The Secret Side

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  • mishmisha9
    Hi, All! I ve injected a couple of comments to Prometheus post--please read below! ... Teaching ... casting ... and ... I was reading on an eck chat site a
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 29, 2006
      Hi, All!

      I've injected a couple of comments to Prometheus' post--please read
      below!

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > I was reading something where an Eckist, I think, was wondering
      > where the private side of Eckankar began and the secret side of
      > Eckankar ended! Eckankar was supposed to have been a Secret
      Teaching
      > at one time and the Discourses are supposed to be Secret. However,
      > Twitch just didn't want the public to see his plagiarized material
      > for free! People have to pay for discourses/initiations via Eck
      > membership.
      >
      > At one time Eckists were supposed to keep their inner experiences
      > private. Sharing these private spiritual experiences is like
      casting
      > pearls before swine - right? Why then are Eckists now encouraged
      and
      > pressured (to a degree) to share their private inner experiences
      > with the public? It's all about the Vahana/missionary effort and
      > money!
      >

      I was reading on an eck chat site a few weeks ago. This one eckist
      was giving tips on how to do talks with the public that were set up
      at local places, like bookstores and libraries, etc. He said that
      each presenter should have a story to tell and if they didn't have
      one, they could "use" one from Harold's talks, presenting it as
      their own. So you can see plagiarism is quite okay in getting
      the "eck" message out to the public in a deceptive way. Whatever
      works, it doesn't matter about the autheticity of it. That's not
      important to liars at all. Of course, suckering more people into the
      cult means more dollars for the org and of course its continuation--
      so that is what is more important than truth!


      > Klemp even wrote about a private Initiation experience, of an
      > Eckist, that was shared with him in an Initiate Report!
      >
      > Some Eckists don't even know about the Secret Side of the cult.
      Many
      > Eckists don't know anything about their local "Board." The RESA
      has
      > a Board of officers and trustees and the names of these members
      are
      > usually unknown. WHY? And, there is a "Board" at the ESC - who are
      > they? There used to be a Spiritual Council... why was it disbanded
      > and what took its place?
      >
      > However, most Eckists know little about any of this. How much
      money
      > does the local Satsang Society have in the bank or invested? What
      > amount of money comes in and what are the expendures and assets?
      The
      > same questions can be applied to the ESC. Who's in charge, at the
      > ESC, of Spiritual Services or Public Information, etc., etc.? Does
      > Klemp own his copyrights or does Eckankar?
      >
      > Why are these Outer things so important to keep secret when Klemp
      > doesn't keep the more important Inner things secret? This doesn't
      > make sense, unless, there's something dishonest to hide!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >

      The Christian Church that I attended at one time while growing up
      has always kept me informed as to their bank accounts and the costs
      of maintaining their church, parish and other expenses. Even though
      I was never a formal member and I moved away (out of state and
      didn't inform them of my new address), I still receive their
      newsletters, and each year there is an accounting of their expenses
      for all to read. They don't mind who in the public is reading it
      obviously, because there is nothing to hide. : )

      Mish
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Mish, I thought that I would respond to some of your comments and why Eckankar won t share financial info. Mishmisha wrote: Hi, All! I ve injected a couple
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 30, 2006
        Hi Mish,
        I thought that I would respond to some of your comments and why
        Eckankar won't share financial info.



        Mishmisha wrote:

        Hi, All!
        I've injected a couple of comments to Prometheus' post--please read
        below!

        Prometheus wrote:
        I was reading something where an Eckist, I think, was wondering
        where the private side of Eckankar began and the secret side of
        Eckankar ended! Eckankar was supposed to have been a Secret Teaching
        at one time and the Discourses are supposed to be Secret. However,
        Twitch just didn't want the public to see his plagiarized material
        for free! People have to pay for discourses/initiations via Eck
        membership.

        At one time Eckists were supposed to keep their inner experiences
        private. Sharing these private spiritual experiences is like casting
        pearls before swine - right? Why then are Eckists now encouraged and
        pressured (to a degree) to share their private inner experiences
        with the public? It's all about the Vahana/missionary effort and
        money!


        Mish: I was reading on an eck chat site a few weeks ago. This one
        eckist was giving tips on how to do talks with the public that were
        set up at local places, like bookstores and libraries, etc. He said
        that each presenter should have a story to tell and if they didn't
        have one, they could "use" one from Harold's talks, presenting it as
        their own. So you can see plagiarism is quite okay in getting
        the "eck" message out to the public in a deceptive way. Whatever
        works, it doesn't matter about the autheticity of it. That's not
        important to liars at all. Of course, suckering more people into the
        cult means more dollars for the org and of course its continuation--
        so that is what is more important than truth!

        ***Yes, where are the ethics and morals of these Eckists? Usually
        most Eckists (except for Klemp and other delusional ones) are
        ethical. Some people, however, never change and if they weren't
        ethical before Eckankar then chances are they won't be during or
        after their Eckankar membership either! One has to want to change
        and be willing and able to do the "Gnothe Seauton" process
        of 'knowing thyself' before one can know thy Self! Unfortunately,
        some people avoid this process because of whom they have become.
        Therefore, they (ego) now rationalizes every aspect of their lives
        because it is too difficult for them to admit the truth about "what"
        they have also become. And, this too gives them the illusion of
        control because they are able to manipulate those few or many around
        them through their deceit of friendliness which they use freely
        while talking about their own intelligence (vis 3rd person) and
        thinking how cunning they are. Afterall, they have outsmarted those
        with high level and multiple university degrees! In truth, however,
        they fear the world and have no beliefs outside of the realm of ego
        and what they perceive they can control in their closed little world.


        Prometheus: Klemp even wrote about a private Initiation experience,
        of an Eckist, that was shared with him in an Initiate Report! Some
        Eckists don't even know about the Secret Side of the cult. Many
        Eckists don't know anything about their local "Board." The RESA has
        a Board of officers and trustees and the names of these members are
        usually unknown. WHY? And, there is a "Board" at the ESC - who are
        they? There used to be a Spiritual Council... why was it disbanded
        and what took its place? However, most Eckists know little about any
        of this. How much money does the local Satsang Society have in the
        bank or invested? What amount of money comes in and what are the
        expendures and assets? The same questions can be applied to the ESC.
        Who's in charge, at the ESC, of Spiritual Services or Public
        Information, etc., etc.? Does Klemp own his copyrights or does
        Eckankar?

        Why are these Outer things so important to keep secret when Klemp
        doesn't keep the more important Inner things secret? This doesn't
        make sense, unless, there's something dishonest to hide!


        Mish: The Christian Church that I attended at one time while growing
        up has always kept me informed as to their bank accounts and the
        costs of maintaining their church, parish and other expenses. Even
        though I was never a formal member and I moved away (out of state
        and didn't inform them of my new address), I still receive their
        newsletters, and each year there is an accounting of their expenses
        for all to read. They don't mind who in the public is reading it
        obviously, because there is nothing to hide. : )

        ***Yes, it is amazing how some groups of people are honest and
        straight forward. Klemp claims that Eckankar moved to Minnesota, in
        part, due to the work ethic. But where are his ethics? Why does
        Eckankar hide their financial records? Actually, I'm told that this
        is the main reason as to why Eckankar moved to Minnesota. In
        Minnesota Non-Profit Organizations legally don't have to divulge
        financial info like they do in California.

        So, with all the money Darwin spent and the need for keeping
        financial records closed, the secrets on Twitchell that needed kept
        out of the media, the influence of other New Age groups in
        California upon Eckankar members, the more bang for your buck for
        building a temple in Minnesota, and a place where Klemp felt more at
        home and could hide out more easily - it seemed Minnesota was a good
        choice!

        I wonder how many other groups/churches hide their money and assets?
        It does kind of make you wonder why they're not willing to share
        this information doesn't it? I think that with Eckankar they
        use "trust" as a manipulative device. Don't Eckists "trust" the
        LEM/Mahanta? Maybe Klemp needs to demonstrate "trust" by revealing
        all of the financial records. As Above So Below!
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Again, It s an interesting mind control technique employed upon Eckists to have them think that Questioning indicates a Lack of Spiritual Consciousness.
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 1 10:47 AM
          Hi Again,
          It's an interesting mind control technique employed upon Eckists to
          have them think that "Questioning" indicates a Lack of Spiritual
          Consciousness. The "Ask the Master" ploy is to give the illusion
          that questions are okay to ask, but notice that none ask about the
          business side of Eckankar!

          The subject of Secrets is one that current Eckists should ponder. I
          welcome all to come in and share their views and experiences
          concerning the Private Side versus the Secret Side of Eckankar. I'll
          add some more comments since this was an area of contention for me,
          at times, and difficult to accept completely. I had to rationalize
          and accept things on blind faith because I knew that as an Eck
          Leader I could Not ask too many questions and, also, certain
          questions and subjects are strickly taboo! These are the Secrets of
          the Business Side of the org that are offlimit to almost every
          member. It's interesting to see that most Eckists don't even care
          about or notice the taboos since they either have their heads in the
          clouds or in a hole in the sand!

          Eckankar is No Longer a Secret Teaching! Why then are there still
          Secrets?! Why is Klemp afraid to let the Light of day shine on
          Eckankar's financial records? Why are the "historical" books of
          Twitchell taken out of print when Eckankar prints their own
          materials?

          The Truth is that there are things to hide because all religions are
          dishonest with their members. The elitist inner circle think that
          the masses are mindless children and can't handle the truth.
          However, these religions are based upon the distortions of real
          Truth and are manipulated by egos and the desires for power and
          other negativity of (mostly) men.

          I acknowledge SPIRIT daily and at the same time I reject all
          religion. I see all of the good and spiritual things in all
          religious belief, to a degree, as having some things that can be
          used individually for the advancement of Soul. The organization and
          business of money, membership, political control (fear & hatred) and
          of dogma, rules, and guidelines along with the leadership/master
          aspect of religion I completely reject! Religion is unnecessary for
          those Souls who can take charge of their own Spiritual Growth and
          are secure enough to be their own Master in this Here and Now!

          Later everyone-

          prometheus wrote:

          Hi Mish,
          I thought that I would respond to some of your comments and why
          Eckankar won't share financial info. (***)

          Mishmisha wrote:

          Hi, All!
          I've injected a couple of comments to Prometheus' post--please read
          below!

          Prometheus wrote:
          I was reading something where an Eckist, I think, was wondering
          where the private side of Eckankar began and the secret side of
          Eckankar ended! Eckankar was supposed to have been a Secret Teaching
          at one time and the Discourses are supposed to be Secret. However,
          Twitch just didn't want the public to see his plagiarized material
          for free! People have to pay for discourses/initiations via Eck
          membership.

          Prometheus: At one time Eckists were supposed to keep their inner
          experiences private. Sharing these private spiritual experiences is
          like casting pearls before swine - right? Why then are Eckists now
          encouraged and pressured (to a degree) to share their private inner
          experiences with the public? It's all about the Vahana/missionary
          effort and money!

          Mish: I was reading on an eck chat site a few weeks ago. This one
          eckist was giving tips on how to do talks with the public that were
          set up at local places, like bookstores and libraries, etc. He said
          that each presenter should have a story to tell and if they didn't
          have one, they could "use" one from Harold's talks, presenting it as
          their own. So you can see plagiarism is quite okay in getting
          the "eck" message out to the public in a deceptive way. Whatever
          works, it doesn't matter about the autheticity of it. That's not
          important to liars at all. Of course, suckering more people into the
          cult means more dollars for the org and of course its continuation--
          so that is what is more important than truth!

          ***Yes, where are the ethics and morals of these Eckists? Usually
          most Eckists (except for Klemp and other delusional ones) are
          ethical. Some people, however, never change and if they weren't
          ethical before Eckankar then chances are they won't be during or
          after their Eckankar membership either! One has to want to change
          and be willing and able to do the "Gnothe Seauton" process
          of 'knowing thyself' before one can know thy Self! Unfortunately,
          some people avoid this process because of whom they have become.
          Therefore, they (ego) now rationalizes every aspect of their lives
          because it is too difficult for them to admit the truth about "what"
          they have also become. And, this too gives them the illusion of
          control because they are able to manipulate those few or many around
          them through their deceit of friendliness which they use freely
          while talking about their own intelligence (vis 3rd person) and
          thinking how cunning they are. Afterall, they have outsmarted those
          with high level and multiple university degrees! In truth, however,
          they fear the world and have no beliefs outside of the realm of ego
          and what they perceive they can control in their closed little world.

          Prometheus: Klemp even wrote about a private Initiation experience,
          of an Eckist, that was shared with him in an Initiate Report! Some
          Eckists don't even know about the Secret Side of the cult. Many
          Eckists don't know anything about their local "Board." The RESA has
          a Board of officers and trustees and the names of these members are
          usually unknown. WHY? And, there is a "Board" at the ESC - who are
          they? There used to be a Spiritual Council... why was it disbanded
          and what took its place? However, most Eckists know little about any
          of this. How much money does the local Satsang Society have in the
          bank or invested? What amount of money comes in and what are the
          expendures and assets? The same questions can be applied to the ESC.
          Who's in charge, at the ESC, of Spiritual Services or Public
          Information, etc., etc.? Does Klemp own his copyrights or does
          Eckankar?

          Prometheus: Why are these Outer things so important to keep secret
          when Klemp doesn't keep the more important Inner things secret? This
          doesn't make sense, unless, there's something dishonest to hide!

          Mish: The Christian Church that I attended at one time while growing
          up has always kept me informed as to their bank accounts and the
          costs of maintaining their church, parish and other expenses. Even
          though I was never a formal member and I moved away (out of state
          and didn't inform them of my new address), I still receive their
          newsletters, and each year there is an accounting of their expenses
          for all to read. They don't mind who in the public is reading it
          obviously, because there is nothing to hide. : )

          ***Yes, it is amazing how some groups of people are honest and
          straight forward. Klemp claims that Eckankar moved to Minnesota, in
          part, due to the work ethic. But where are his ethics? Why does
          Eckankar hide their financial records? Actually, I'm told that this
          is the main reason as to why Eckankar moved to Minnesota. In
          Minnesota Non-Profit Organizations legally don't have to divulge
          financial info like they do in California.

          ***So, with all the money Darwin spent and the need for keeping
          financial records closed, the secrets on Twitchell that needed kept
          out of the media, the influence of other New Age groups in
          California upon Eckankar members, the more bang for your buck for
          building a temple in Minnesota, and a place where Klemp felt more at
          home and could hide out more easily - it seemed Minnesota was a good
          choice!

          ***I wonder how many other groups/churches hide their money and
          assets? It does kind of make you wonder why they're not willing to
          share this information doesn't it? I think that with Eckankar they
          use "trust" as a manipulative device. Don't Eckists "trust" the
          LEM/Mahanta? Maybe Klemp needs to demonstrate "trust" by revealing
          all of the financial records. As Above So Below!
        • Freefrom
          Hi Prometheus, I agree with you on questioning and how important it is to be inquisitive about this secret side of eckankar. Hidden is probably more the
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 5 11:48 PM
            Hi Prometheus,

            I agree with you on questioning and how important it is
            to be inquisitive about this "secret" side of eckankar. Hidden is
            probably more the truth. I am finding that questioning and curiosity
            is just a normal part of being alive. ONly the dead have no curiosity.
            They are dead! My cat has a very questioning meow when he doesn't
            understand something. The inflection and tone of voice goes up to a
            higher pitch. Questioning is something we are wired to do IMO. I
            remember as a child asking "WHY" all the time, so much that it drove
            the adults crazy, I'm sure. ANd anyone who has been around young
            children, knows that questioning and curiosity is an extremely strong
            drive, a will to understand what is the truth about things. Eckankult
            is NOT a true spiritual path because it denies it's members the right
            to ask any relevant question and declares such questions as just
            spiritual ignorance, which it is obviously not. You can't live in
            denial if you are curious, IMHO! I have also found that questioning is
            like an innoculation against destructive Cults. Cultists can't stand
            it and they will start shunning you and even chasing you away. What
            better way to find out if you are dealing with a destructive Cult than
            questioning, being naturally curious.

            Freefrom ; )

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Again,
            > It's an interesting mind control technique employed upon Eckists to
            > have them think that "Questioning" indicates a Lack of Spiritual
            > Consciousness. The "Ask the Master" ploy is to give the illusion
            > that questions are okay to ask, but notice that none ask about the
            > business side of Eckankar!
            >
            > The subject of Secrets is one that current Eckists should ponder. I
            > welcome all to come in and share their views and experiences
            > concerning the Private Side versus the Secret Side of Eckankar. I'll
            > add some more comments since this was an area of contention for me,
            > at times, and difficult to accept completely. I had to rationalize
            > and accept things on blind faith because I knew that as an Eck
            > Leader I could Not ask too many questions and, also, certain
            > questions and subjects are strickly taboo! These are the Secrets of
            > the Business Side of the org that are offlimit to almost every
            > member. It's interesting to see that most Eckists don't even care
            > about or notice the taboos since they either have their heads in the
            > clouds or in a hole in the sand!
            >
            > Eckankar is No Longer a Secret Teaching! Why then are there still
            > Secrets?! Why is Klemp afraid to let the Light of day shine on
            > Eckankar's financial records? Why are the "historical" books of
            > Twitchell taken out of print when Eckankar prints their own
            > materials?
            >
            > The Truth is that there are things to hide because all religions are
            > dishonest with their members. The elitist inner circle think that
            > the masses are mindless children and can't handle the truth.
            > However, these religions are based upon the distortions of real
            > Truth and are manipulated by egos and the desires for power and
            > other negativity of (mostly) men.
            >
            > I acknowledge SPIRIT daily and at the same time I reject all
            > religion. I see all of the good and spiritual things in all
            > religious belief, to a degree, as having some things that can be
            > used individually for the advancement of Soul. The organization and
            > business of money, membership, political control (fear & hatred) and
            > of dogma, rules, and guidelines along with the leadership/master
            > aspect of religion I completely reject! Religion is unnecessary for
            > those Souls who can take charge of their own Spiritual Growth and
            > are secure enough to be their own Master in this Here and Now!
            >
            > Later everyone-
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hi Mish,
            > I thought that I would respond to some of your comments and why
            > Eckankar won't share financial info. (***)
            >
            > Mishmisha wrote:
            >
            > Hi, All!
            > I've injected a couple of comments to Prometheus' post--please read
            > below!
            >
            > Prometheus wrote:
            > I was reading something where an Eckist, I think, was wondering
            > where the private side of Eckankar began and the secret side of
            > Eckankar ended! Eckankar was supposed to have been a Secret Teaching
            > at one time and the Discourses are supposed to be Secret. However,
            > Twitch just didn't want the public to see his plagiarized material
            > for free! People have to pay for discourses/initiations via Eck
            > membership.
            >
            > Prometheus: At one time Eckists were supposed to keep their inner
            > experiences private. Sharing these private spiritual experiences is
            > like casting pearls before swine - right? Why then are Eckists now
            > encouraged and pressured (to a degree) to share their private inner
            > experiences with the public? It's all about the Vahana/missionary
            > effort and money!
            >
            > Mish: I was reading on an eck chat site a few weeks ago. This one
            > eckist was giving tips on how to do talks with the public that were
            > set up at local places, like bookstores and libraries, etc. He said
            > that each presenter should have a story to tell and if they didn't
            > have one, they could "use" one from Harold's talks, presenting it as
            > their own. So you can see plagiarism is quite okay in getting
            > the "eck" message out to the public in a deceptive way. Whatever
            > works, it doesn't matter about the autheticity of it. That's not
            > important to liars at all. Of course, suckering more people into the
            > cult means more dollars for the org and of course its continuation--
            > so that is what is more important than truth!
            >
            > ***Yes, where are the ethics and morals of these Eckists? Usually
            > most Eckists (except for Klemp and other delusional ones) are
            > ethical. Some people, however, never change and if they weren't
            > ethical before Eckankar then chances are they won't be during or
            > after their Eckankar membership either! One has to want to change
            > and be willing and able to do the "Gnothe Seauton" process
            > of 'knowing thyself' before one can know thy Self! Unfortunately,
            > some people avoid this process because of whom they have become.
            > Therefore, they (ego) now rationalizes every aspect of their lives
            > because it is too difficult for them to admit the truth about "what"
            > they have also become. And, this too gives them the illusion of
            > control because they are able to manipulate those few or many around
            > them through their deceit of friendliness which they use freely
            > while talking about their own intelligence (vis 3rd person) and
            > thinking how cunning they are. Afterall, they have outsmarted those
            > with high level and multiple university degrees! In truth, however,
            > they fear the world and have no beliefs outside of the realm of ego
            > and what they perceive they can control in their closed little world.
            >
            > Prometheus: Klemp even wrote about a private Initiation experience,
            > of an Eckist, that was shared with him in an Initiate Report! Some
            > Eckists don't even know about the Secret Side of the cult. Many
            > Eckists don't know anything about their local "Board." The RESA has
            > a Board of officers and trustees and the names of these members are
            > usually unknown. WHY? And, there is a "Board" at the ESC - who are
            > they? There used to be a Spiritual Council... why was it disbanded
            > and what took its place? However, most Eckists know little about any
            > of this. How much money does the local Satsang Society have in the
            > bank or invested? What amount of money comes in and what are the
            > expendures and assets? The same questions can be applied to the ESC.
            > Who's in charge, at the ESC, of Spiritual Services or Public
            > Information, etc., etc.? Does Klemp own his copyrights or does
            > Eckankar?
            >
            > Prometheus: Why are these Outer things so important to keep secret
            > when Klemp doesn't keep the more important Inner things secret? This
            > doesn't make sense, unless, there's something dishonest to hide!
            >
            > Mish: The Christian Church that I attended at one time while growing
            > up has always kept me informed as to their bank accounts and the
            > costs of maintaining their church, parish and other expenses. Even
            > though I was never a formal member and I moved away (out of state
            > and didn't inform them of my new address), I still receive their
            > newsletters, and each year there is an accounting of their expenses
            > for all to read. They don't mind who in the public is reading it
            > obviously, because there is nothing to hide. : )
            >
            > ***Yes, it is amazing how some groups of people are honest and
            > straight forward. Klemp claims that Eckankar moved to Minnesota, in
            > part, due to the work ethic. But where are his ethics? Why does
            > Eckankar hide their financial records? Actually, I'm told that this
            > is the main reason as to why Eckankar moved to Minnesota. In
            > Minnesota Non-Profit Organizations legally don't have to divulge
            > financial info like they do in California.
            >
            > ***So, with all the money Darwin spent and the need for keeping
            > financial records closed, the secrets on Twitchell that needed kept
            > out of the media, the influence of other New Age groups in
            > California upon Eckankar members, the more bang for your buck for
            > building a temple in Minnesota, and a place where Klemp felt more at
            > home and could hide out more easily - it seemed Minnesota was a good
            > choice!
            >
            > ***I wonder how many other groups/churches hide their money and
            > assets? It does kind of make you wonder why they're not willing to
            > share this information doesn't it? I think that with Eckankar they
            > use "trust" as a manipulative device. Don't Eckists "trust" the
            > LEM/Mahanta? Maybe Klemp needs to demonstrate "trust" by revealing
            > all of the financial records. As Above So Below!
            >
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