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Eckankar: The Private Side vs. The Secret Side

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, I was reading something where an Eckist, I think, was wondering where the private side of Eckankar began and the secret side of Eckankar ended!
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 28, 2006
      Hello All,
      I was reading something where an Eckist, I think, was wondering
      where the private side of Eckankar began and the secret side of
      Eckankar ended! Eckankar was supposed to have been a Secret Teaching
      at one time and the Discourses are supposed to be Secret. However,
      Twitch just didn't want the public to see his plagiarized material
      for free! People have to pay for discourses/initiations via Eck
      membership.

      At one time Eckists were supposed to keep their inner experiences
      private. Sharing these private spiritual experiences is like casting
      pearls before swine - right? Why then are Eckists now encouraged and
      pressured (to a degree) to share their private inner experiences
      with the public? It's all about the Vahana/missionary effort and
      money!

      Klemp even wrote about a private Initiation experience, of an
      Eckist, that was shared with him in an Initiate Report!

      Some Eckists don't even know about the Secret Side of the cult. Many
      Eckists don't know anything about their local "Board." The RESA has
      a Board of officers and trustees and the names of these members are
      usually unknown. WHY? And, there is a "Board" at the ESC - who are
      they? There used to be a Spiritual Council... why was it disbanded
      and what took its place?

      However, most Eckists know little about any of this. How much money
      does the local Satsang Society have in the bank or invested? What
      amount of money comes in and what are the expendures and assets? The
      same questions can be applied to the ESC. Who's in charge, at the
      ESC, of Spiritual Services or Public Information, etc., etc.? Does
      Klemp own his copyrights or does Eckankar?

      Why are these Outer things so important to keep secret when Klemp
      doesn't keep the more important Inner things secret? This doesn't
      make sense, unless, there's something dishonest to hide!

      Prometheus
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, All! I ve injected a couple of comments to Prometheus post--please read below! ... Teaching ... casting ... and ... I was reading on an eck chat site a
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 29, 2006
        Hi, All!

        I've injected a couple of comments to Prometheus' post--please read
        below!

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > I was reading something where an Eckist, I think, was wondering
        > where the private side of Eckankar began and the secret side of
        > Eckankar ended! Eckankar was supposed to have been a Secret
        Teaching
        > at one time and the Discourses are supposed to be Secret. However,
        > Twitch just didn't want the public to see his plagiarized material
        > for free! People have to pay for discourses/initiations via Eck
        > membership.
        >
        > At one time Eckists were supposed to keep their inner experiences
        > private. Sharing these private spiritual experiences is like
        casting
        > pearls before swine - right? Why then are Eckists now encouraged
        and
        > pressured (to a degree) to share their private inner experiences
        > with the public? It's all about the Vahana/missionary effort and
        > money!
        >

        I was reading on an eck chat site a few weeks ago. This one eckist
        was giving tips on how to do talks with the public that were set up
        at local places, like bookstores and libraries, etc. He said that
        each presenter should have a story to tell and if they didn't have
        one, they could "use" one from Harold's talks, presenting it as
        their own. So you can see plagiarism is quite okay in getting
        the "eck" message out to the public in a deceptive way. Whatever
        works, it doesn't matter about the autheticity of it. That's not
        important to liars at all. Of course, suckering more people into the
        cult means more dollars for the org and of course its continuation--
        so that is what is more important than truth!


        > Klemp even wrote about a private Initiation experience, of an
        > Eckist, that was shared with him in an Initiate Report!
        >
        > Some Eckists don't even know about the Secret Side of the cult.
        Many
        > Eckists don't know anything about their local "Board." The RESA
        has
        > a Board of officers and trustees and the names of these members
        are
        > usually unknown. WHY? And, there is a "Board" at the ESC - who are
        > they? There used to be a Spiritual Council... why was it disbanded
        > and what took its place?
        >
        > However, most Eckists know little about any of this. How much
        money
        > does the local Satsang Society have in the bank or invested? What
        > amount of money comes in and what are the expendures and assets?
        The
        > same questions can be applied to the ESC. Who's in charge, at the
        > ESC, of Spiritual Services or Public Information, etc., etc.? Does
        > Klemp own his copyrights or does Eckankar?
        >
        > Why are these Outer things so important to keep secret when Klemp
        > doesn't keep the more important Inner things secret? This doesn't
        > make sense, unless, there's something dishonest to hide!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >

        The Christian Church that I attended at one time while growing up
        has always kept me informed as to their bank accounts and the costs
        of maintaining their church, parish and other expenses. Even though
        I was never a formal member and I moved away (out of state and
        didn't inform them of my new address), I still receive their
        newsletters, and each year there is an accounting of their expenses
        for all to read. They don't mind who in the public is reading it
        obviously, because there is nothing to hide. : )

        Mish
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Mish, I thought that I would respond to some of your comments and why Eckankar won t share financial info. Mishmisha wrote: Hi, All! I ve injected a couple
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 30, 2006
          Hi Mish,
          I thought that I would respond to some of your comments and why
          Eckankar won't share financial info.



          Mishmisha wrote:

          Hi, All!
          I've injected a couple of comments to Prometheus' post--please read
          below!

          Prometheus wrote:
          I was reading something where an Eckist, I think, was wondering
          where the private side of Eckankar began and the secret side of
          Eckankar ended! Eckankar was supposed to have been a Secret Teaching
          at one time and the Discourses are supposed to be Secret. However,
          Twitch just didn't want the public to see his plagiarized material
          for free! People have to pay for discourses/initiations via Eck
          membership.

          At one time Eckists were supposed to keep their inner experiences
          private. Sharing these private spiritual experiences is like casting
          pearls before swine - right? Why then are Eckists now encouraged and
          pressured (to a degree) to share their private inner experiences
          with the public? It's all about the Vahana/missionary effort and
          money!


          Mish: I was reading on an eck chat site a few weeks ago. This one
          eckist was giving tips on how to do talks with the public that were
          set up at local places, like bookstores and libraries, etc. He said
          that each presenter should have a story to tell and if they didn't
          have one, they could "use" one from Harold's talks, presenting it as
          their own. So you can see plagiarism is quite okay in getting
          the "eck" message out to the public in a deceptive way. Whatever
          works, it doesn't matter about the autheticity of it. That's not
          important to liars at all. Of course, suckering more people into the
          cult means more dollars for the org and of course its continuation--
          so that is what is more important than truth!

          ***Yes, where are the ethics and morals of these Eckists? Usually
          most Eckists (except for Klemp and other delusional ones) are
          ethical. Some people, however, never change and if they weren't
          ethical before Eckankar then chances are they won't be during or
          after their Eckankar membership either! One has to want to change
          and be willing and able to do the "Gnothe Seauton" process
          of 'knowing thyself' before one can know thy Self! Unfortunately,
          some people avoid this process because of whom they have become.
          Therefore, they (ego) now rationalizes every aspect of their lives
          because it is too difficult for them to admit the truth about "what"
          they have also become. And, this too gives them the illusion of
          control because they are able to manipulate those few or many around
          them through their deceit of friendliness which they use freely
          while talking about their own intelligence (vis 3rd person) and
          thinking how cunning they are. Afterall, they have outsmarted those
          with high level and multiple university degrees! In truth, however,
          they fear the world and have no beliefs outside of the realm of ego
          and what they perceive they can control in their closed little world.


          Prometheus: Klemp even wrote about a private Initiation experience,
          of an Eckist, that was shared with him in an Initiate Report! Some
          Eckists don't even know about the Secret Side of the cult. Many
          Eckists don't know anything about their local "Board." The RESA has
          a Board of officers and trustees and the names of these members are
          usually unknown. WHY? And, there is a "Board" at the ESC - who are
          they? There used to be a Spiritual Council... why was it disbanded
          and what took its place? However, most Eckists know little about any
          of this. How much money does the local Satsang Society have in the
          bank or invested? What amount of money comes in and what are the
          expendures and assets? The same questions can be applied to the ESC.
          Who's in charge, at the ESC, of Spiritual Services or Public
          Information, etc., etc.? Does Klemp own his copyrights or does
          Eckankar?

          Why are these Outer things so important to keep secret when Klemp
          doesn't keep the more important Inner things secret? This doesn't
          make sense, unless, there's something dishonest to hide!


          Mish: The Christian Church that I attended at one time while growing
          up has always kept me informed as to their bank accounts and the
          costs of maintaining their church, parish and other expenses. Even
          though I was never a formal member and I moved away (out of state
          and didn't inform them of my new address), I still receive their
          newsletters, and each year there is an accounting of their expenses
          for all to read. They don't mind who in the public is reading it
          obviously, because there is nothing to hide. : )

          ***Yes, it is amazing how some groups of people are honest and
          straight forward. Klemp claims that Eckankar moved to Minnesota, in
          part, due to the work ethic. But where are his ethics? Why does
          Eckankar hide their financial records? Actually, I'm told that this
          is the main reason as to why Eckankar moved to Minnesota. In
          Minnesota Non-Profit Organizations legally don't have to divulge
          financial info like they do in California.

          So, with all the money Darwin spent and the need for keeping
          financial records closed, the secrets on Twitchell that needed kept
          out of the media, the influence of other New Age groups in
          California upon Eckankar members, the more bang for your buck for
          building a temple in Minnesota, and a place where Klemp felt more at
          home and could hide out more easily - it seemed Minnesota was a good
          choice!

          I wonder how many other groups/churches hide their money and assets?
          It does kind of make you wonder why they're not willing to share
          this information doesn't it? I think that with Eckankar they
          use "trust" as a manipulative device. Don't Eckists "trust" the
          LEM/Mahanta? Maybe Klemp needs to demonstrate "trust" by revealing
          all of the financial records. As Above So Below!
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Again, It s an interesting mind control technique employed upon Eckists to have them think that Questioning indicates a Lack of Spiritual Consciousness.
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 1, 2006
            Hi Again,
            It's an interesting mind control technique employed upon Eckists to
            have them think that "Questioning" indicates a Lack of Spiritual
            Consciousness. The "Ask the Master" ploy is to give the illusion
            that questions are okay to ask, but notice that none ask about the
            business side of Eckankar!

            The subject of Secrets is one that current Eckists should ponder. I
            welcome all to come in and share their views and experiences
            concerning the Private Side versus the Secret Side of Eckankar. I'll
            add some more comments since this was an area of contention for me,
            at times, and difficult to accept completely. I had to rationalize
            and accept things on blind faith because I knew that as an Eck
            Leader I could Not ask too many questions and, also, certain
            questions and subjects are strickly taboo! These are the Secrets of
            the Business Side of the org that are offlimit to almost every
            member. It's interesting to see that most Eckists don't even care
            about or notice the taboos since they either have their heads in the
            clouds or in a hole in the sand!

            Eckankar is No Longer a Secret Teaching! Why then are there still
            Secrets?! Why is Klemp afraid to let the Light of day shine on
            Eckankar's financial records? Why are the "historical" books of
            Twitchell taken out of print when Eckankar prints their own
            materials?

            The Truth is that there are things to hide because all religions are
            dishonest with their members. The elitist inner circle think that
            the masses are mindless children and can't handle the truth.
            However, these religions are based upon the distortions of real
            Truth and are manipulated by egos and the desires for power and
            other negativity of (mostly) men.

            I acknowledge SPIRIT daily and at the same time I reject all
            religion. I see all of the good and spiritual things in all
            religious belief, to a degree, as having some things that can be
            used individually for the advancement of Soul. The organization and
            business of money, membership, political control (fear & hatred) and
            of dogma, rules, and guidelines along with the leadership/master
            aspect of religion I completely reject! Religion is unnecessary for
            those Souls who can take charge of their own Spiritual Growth and
            are secure enough to be their own Master in this Here and Now!

            Later everyone-

            prometheus wrote:

            Hi Mish,
            I thought that I would respond to some of your comments and why
            Eckankar won't share financial info. (***)

            Mishmisha wrote:

            Hi, All!
            I've injected a couple of comments to Prometheus' post--please read
            below!

            Prometheus wrote:
            I was reading something where an Eckist, I think, was wondering
            where the private side of Eckankar began and the secret side of
            Eckankar ended! Eckankar was supposed to have been a Secret Teaching
            at one time and the Discourses are supposed to be Secret. However,
            Twitch just didn't want the public to see his plagiarized material
            for free! People have to pay for discourses/initiations via Eck
            membership.

            Prometheus: At one time Eckists were supposed to keep their inner
            experiences private. Sharing these private spiritual experiences is
            like casting pearls before swine - right? Why then are Eckists now
            encouraged and pressured (to a degree) to share their private inner
            experiences with the public? It's all about the Vahana/missionary
            effort and money!

            Mish: I was reading on an eck chat site a few weeks ago. This one
            eckist was giving tips on how to do talks with the public that were
            set up at local places, like bookstores and libraries, etc. He said
            that each presenter should have a story to tell and if they didn't
            have one, they could "use" one from Harold's talks, presenting it as
            their own. So you can see plagiarism is quite okay in getting
            the "eck" message out to the public in a deceptive way. Whatever
            works, it doesn't matter about the autheticity of it. That's not
            important to liars at all. Of course, suckering more people into the
            cult means more dollars for the org and of course its continuation--
            so that is what is more important than truth!

            ***Yes, where are the ethics and morals of these Eckists? Usually
            most Eckists (except for Klemp and other delusional ones) are
            ethical. Some people, however, never change and if they weren't
            ethical before Eckankar then chances are they won't be during or
            after their Eckankar membership either! One has to want to change
            and be willing and able to do the "Gnothe Seauton" process
            of 'knowing thyself' before one can know thy Self! Unfortunately,
            some people avoid this process because of whom they have become.
            Therefore, they (ego) now rationalizes every aspect of their lives
            because it is too difficult for them to admit the truth about "what"
            they have also become. And, this too gives them the illusion of
            control because they are able to manipulate those few or many around
            them through their deceit of friendliness which they use freely
            while talking about their own intelligence (vis 3rd person) and
            thinking how cunning they are. Afterall, they have outsmarted those
            with high level and multiple university degrees! In truth, however,
            they fear the world and have no beliefs outside of the realm of ego
            and what they perceive they can control in their closed little world.

            Prometheus: Klemp even wrote about a private Initiation experience,
            of an Eckist, that was shared with him in an Initiate Report! Some
            Eckists don't even know about the Secret Side of the cult. Many
            Eckists don't know anything about their local "Board." The RESA has
            a Board of officers and trustees and the names of these members are
            usually unknown. WHY? And, there is a "Board" at the ESC - who are
            they? There used to be a Spiritual Council... why was it disbanded
            and what took its place? However, most Eckists know little about any
            of this. How much money does the local Satsang Society have in the
            bank or invested? What amount of money comes in and what are the
            expendures and assets? The same questions can be applied to the ESC.
            Who's in charge, at the ESC, of Spiritual Services or Public
            Information, etc., etc.? Does Klemp own his copyrights or does
            Eckankar?

            Prometheus: Why are these Outer things so important to keep secret
            when Klemp doesn't keep the more important Inner things secret? This
            doesn't make sense, unless, there's something dishonest to hide!

            Mish: The Christian Church that I attended at one time while growing
            up has always kept me informed as to their bank accounts and the
            costs of maintaining their church, parish and other expenses. Even
            though I was never a formal member and I moved away (out of state
            and didn't inform them of my new address), I still receive their
            newsletters, and each year there is an accounting of their expenses
            for all to read. They don't mind who in the public is reading it
            obviously, because there is nothing to hide. : )

            ***Yes, it is amazing how some groups of people are honest and
            straight forward. Klemp claims that Eckankar moved to Minnesota, in
            part, due to the work ethic. But where are his ethics? Why does
            Eckankar hide their financial records? Actually, I'm told that this
            is the main reason as to why Eckankar moved to Minnesota. In
            Minnesota Non-Profit Organizations legally don't have to divulge
            financial info like they do in California.

            ***So, with all the money Darwin spent and the need for keeping
            financial records closed, the secrets on Twitchell that needed kept
            out of the media, the influence of other New Age groups in
            California upon Eckankar members, the more bang for your buck for
            building a temple in Minnesota, and a place where Klemp felt more at
            home and could hide out more easily - it seemed Minnesota was a good
            choice!

            ***I wonder how many other groups/churches hide their money and
            assets? It does kind of make you wonder why they're not willing to
            share this information doesn't it? I think that with Eckankar they
            use "trust" as a manipulative device. Don't Eckists "trust" the
            LEM/Mahanta? Maybe Klemp needs to demonstrate "trust" by revealing
            all of the financial records. As Above So Below!
          • Freefrom
            Hi Prometheus, I agree with you on questioning and how important it is to be inquisitive about this secret side of eckankar. Hidden is probably more the
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 5, 2006
              Hi Prometheus,

              I agree with you on questioning and how important it is
              to be inquisitive about this "secret" side of eckankar. Hidden is
              probably more the truth. I am finding that questioning and curiosity
              is just a normal part of being alive. ONly the dead have no curiosity.
              They are dead! My cat has a very questioning meow when he doesn't
              understand something. The inflection and tone of voice goes up to a
              higher pitch. Questioning is something we are wired to do IMO. I
              remember as a child asking "WHY" all the time, so much that it drove
              the adults crazy, I'm sure. ANd anyone who has been around young
              children, knows that questioning and curiosity is an extremely strong
              drive, a will to understand what is the truth about things. Eckankult
              is NOT a true spiritual path because it denies it's members the right
              to ask any relevant question and declares such questions as just
              spiritual ignorance, which it is obviously not. You can't live in
              denial if you are curious, IMHO! I have also found that questioning is
              like an innoculation against destructive Cults. Cultists can't stand
              it and they will start shunning you and even chasing you away. What
              better way to find out if you are dealing with a destructive Cult than
              questioning, being naturally curious.

              Freefrom ; )

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Again,
              > It's an interesting mind control technique employed upon Eckists to
              > have them think that "Questioning" indicates a Lack of Spiritual
              > Consciousness. The "Ask the Master" ploy is to give the illusion
              > that questions are okay to ask, but notice that none ask about the
              > business side of Eckankar!
              >
              > The subject of Secrets is one that current Eckists should ponder. I
              > welcome all to come in and share their views and experiences
              > concerning the Private Side versus the Secret Side of Eckankar. I'll
              > add some more comments since this was an area of contention for me,
              > at times, and difficult to accept completely. I had to rationalize
              > and accept things on blind faith because I knew that as an Eck
              > Leader I could Not ask too many questions and, also, certain
              > questions and subjects are strickly taboo! These are the Secrets of
              > the Business Side of the org that are offlimit to almost every
              > member. It's interesting to see that most Eckists don't even care
              > about or notice the taboos since they either have their heads in the
              > clouds or in a hole in the sand!
              >
              > Eckankar is No Longer a Secret Teaching! Why then are there still
              > Secrets?! Why is Klemp afraid to let the Light of day shine on
              > Eckankar's financial records? Why are the "historical" books of
              > Twitchell taken out of print when Eckankar prints their own
              > materials?
              >
              > The Truth is that there are things to hide because all religions are
              > dishonest with their members. The elitist inner circle think that
              > the masses are mindless children and can't handle the truth.
              > However, these religions are based upon the distortions of real
              > Truth and are manipulated by egos and the desires for power and
              > other negativity of (mostly) men.
              >
              > I acknowledge SPIRIT daily and at the same time I reject all
              > religion. I see all of the good and spiritual things in all
              > religious belief, to a degree, as having some things that can be
              > used individually for the advancement of Soul. The organization and
              > business of money, membership, political control (fear & hatred) and
              > of dogma, rules, and guidelines along with the leadership/master
              > aspect of religion I completely reject! Religion is unnecessary for
              > those Souls who can take charge of their own Spiritual Growth and
              > are secure enough to be their own Master in this Here and Now!
              >
              > Later everyone-
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hi Mish,
              > I thought that I would respond to some of your comments and why
              > Eckankar won't share financial info. (***)
              >
              > Mishmisha wrote:
              >
              > Hi, All!
              > I've injected a couple of comments to Prometheus' post--please read
              > below!
              >
              > Prometheus wrote:
              > I was reading something where an Eckist, I think, was wondering
              > where the private side of Eckankar began and the secret side of
              > Eckankar ended! Eckankar was supposed to have been a Secret Teaching
              > at one time and the Discourses are supposed to be Secret. However,
              > Twitch just didn't want the public to see his plagiarized material
              > for free! People have to pay for discourses/initiations via Eck
              > membership.
              >
              > Prometheus: At one time Eckists were supposed to keep their inner
              > experiences private. Sharing these private spiritual experiences is
              > like casting pearls before swine - right? Why then are Eckists now
              > encouraged and pressured (to a degree) to share their private inner
              > experiences with the public? It's all about the Vahana/missionary
              > effort and money!
              >
              > Mish: I was reading on an eck chat site a few weeks ago. This one
              > eckist was giving tips on how to do talks with the public that were
              > set up at local places, like bookstores and libraries, etc. He said
              > that each presenter should have a story to tell and if they didn't
              > have one, they could "use" one from Harold's talks, presenting it as
              > their own. So you can see plagiarism is quite okay in getting
              > the "eck" message out to the public in a deceptive way. Whatever
              > works, it doesn't matter about the autheticity of it. That's not
              > important to liars at all. Of course, suckering more people into the
              > cult means more dollars for the org and of course its continuation--
              > so that is what is more important than truth!
              >
              > ***Yes, where are the ethics and morals of these Eckists? Usually
              > most Eckists (except for Klemp and other delusional ones) are
              > ethical. Some people, however, never change and if they weren't
              > ethical before Eckankar then chances are they won't be during or
              > after their Eckankar membership either! One has to want to change
              > and be willing and able to do the "Gnothe Seauton" process
              > of 'knowing thyself' before one can know thy Self! Unfortunately,
              > some people avoid this process because of whom they have become.
              > Therefore, they (ego) now rationalizes every aspect of their lives
              > because it is too difficult for them to admit the truth about "what"
              > they have also become. And, this too gives them the illusion of
              > control because they are able to manipulate those few or many around
              > them through their deceit of friendliness which they use freely
              > while talking about their own intelligence (vis 3rd person) and
              > thinking how cunning they are. Afterall, they have outsmarted those
              > with high level and multiple university degrees! In truth, however,
              > they fear the world and have no beliefs outside of the realm of ego
              > and what they perceive they can control in their closed little world.
              >
              > Prometheus: Klemp even wrote about a private Initiation experience,
              > of an Eckist, that was shared with him in an Initiate Report! Some
              > Eckists don't even know about the Secret Side of the cult. Many
              > Eckists don't know anything about their local "Board." The RESA has
              > a Board of officers and trustees and the names of these members are
              > usually unknown. WHY? And, there is a "Board" at the ESC - who are
              > they? There used to be a Spiritual Council... why was it disbanded
              > and what took its place? However, most Eckists know little about any
              > of this. How much money does the local Satsang Society have in the
              > bank or invested? What amount of money comes in and what are the
              > expendures and assets? The same questions can be applied to the ESC.
              > Who's in charge, at the ESC, of Spiritual Services or Public
              > Information, etc., etc.? Does Klemp own his copyrights or does
              > Eckankar?
              >
              > Prometheus: Why are these Outer things so important to keep secret
              > when Klemp doesn't keep the more important Inner things secret? This
              > doesn't make sense, unless, there's something dishonest to hide!
              >
              > Mish: The Christian Church that I attended at one time while growing
              > up has always kept me informed as to their bank accounts and the
              > costs of maintaining their church, parish and other expenses. Even
              > though I was never a formal member and I moved away (out of state
              > and didn't inform them of my new address), I still receive their
              > newsletters, and each year there is an accounting of their expenses
              > for all to read. They don't mind who in the public is reading it
              > obviously, because there is nothing to hide. : )
              >
              > ***Yes, it is amazing how some groups of people are honest and
              > straight forward. Klemp claims that Eckankar moved to Minnesota, in
              > part, due to the work ethic. But where are his ethics? Why does
              > Eckankar hide their financial records? Actually, I'm told that this
              > is the main reason as to why Eckankar moved to Minnesota. In
              > Minnesota Non-Profit Organizations legally don't have to divulge
              > financial info like they do in California.
              >
              > ***So, with all the money Darwin spent and the need for keeping
              > financial records closed, the secrets on Twitchell that needed kept
              > out of the media, the influence of other New Age groups in
              > California upon Eckankar members, the more bang for your buck for
              > building a temple in Minnesota, and a place where Klemp felt more at
              > home and could hide out more easily - it seemed Minnesota was a good
              > choice!
              >
              > ***I wonder how many other groups/churches hide their money and
              > assets? It does kind of make you wonder why they're not willing to
              > share this information doesn't it? I think that with Eckankar they
              > use "trust" as a manipulative device. Don't Eckists "trust" the
              > LEM/Mahanta? Maybe Klemp needs to demonstrate "trust" by revealing
              > all of the financial records. As Above So Below!
              >
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