Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Sickness Surfaces again with a New Face

Expand Messages
  • ewickings@aol.com
    Not only is Klemp delusional, he has set himself up as a martyr! What a guy... Thank you Mahanta for your selfless sacrifice to the entire universe. ;-)
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 23, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Not only is Klemp delusional, he has set himself up as a martyr!  What a guy... 
       
      Thank you Mahanta for your selfless sacrifice to the entire universe.  ;-)
       
      Just thought I would finish my thoughts on this topic,
      and wish everyone a nice weekend!
      TGIF
       
      Liz  
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Klemp writes:
      "It is surprising that some ECK initiates never make a connection
      between the Master's physical illness and their own spiritual
      unfoldment. They think, Why is he sick? Karma? How many fail to
      consider that an intense trial of spiritual purification among the
      chelas and people everywhere goes first through the universal body of
      the Mahanta. Those effects naturally show up in the Master's life as
      health or other reverses." - Harold Klemp, H.I. Letter, March 1996

      ***  So basically it is the lowly people of the entire universe and the Eck Chela's fault for why Klemp is so ill. (Klemp claims to be the holding tank for the Karma of the entire
      Universe)
    • prometheus_973
      Great Post! All of this shows how Klemp uses the Catch-22 method of rule. He specializes in giving advice to others while never applying it to himself. This
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 23, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Great Post!
        All of this shows how Klemp uses the Catch-22 method of rule. He
        specializes in giving advice to others while never applying it to
        himself. This delusional and anti-social attitude shows an
        arrogance, a lack of empathy, and a disconnect from humanity and to
        Eck chelas. Klemp contradicts himself often and shows no concern
        about this because he disrespects the Eck puppets who follow his
        nonsense. Klemp talks out of both sides of his mouth as would any
        Kal agent.

        Here's an example of more Klemp contradictions: "When someone says
        BUT, it's a nail in the coffin of invention. A constant stream of
        contradictions shuts off creativity and a gift that may be offered.
        And when someone say BUT he's stopped listening. SO BE AWARE OF
        USING IF. AND ESPECIALLY WHEN USING BUT, BECAUSE IT'S LIMITING...
        THIS IS PRETTY MUCH FOR OURSELVES, because in dealing with others,
        you may need to use if, and, or but." [The H.I. Letter, December
        2005 (My caps)]

        Eckists should now read every Mystic World, H.I. Letter, and Letter
        of Light article (Wisdom Notes too) by Klemp since 12/2005, and look
        for IFs and especially for BUTs that Klemp continues to use!

        In the JUNE 2006 "THE WISDOM NOTES" Klemp uses FOUR BUTs!

        So, is Klemp simply unaware of what he has previously said and is
        doing? That's a scary thought for Eckists! What else is screwed up
        due to a lack of attentiveness, and how can he be doing all he
        claims or be ALL KNOWING and POWERFUL as the Mahanta?!

        Or, is Klemp just a liar and con-man, too, and could care less about
        what he says and does? Afterall, most Eckists are basically
        followers and "followers" are both passive and trusting. They don't
        question things because they NEED Eckankar and something outside of
        themSelves to believe in. Questions need Answers and most Eckists
        don't want to really hear those answers, therefore, they don't ask
        the "difficult" questions. Eckists tend to Only ask easy questions
        because these are basically done for re-enforcement of what they
        have already accepted on faith. If the mind wants to believe in and
        accept something then it will find ways to do so. This is why Klemp
        pushes Eckists to use their "Imaginations" and to place mental
        energy and attention on the Mahanta.

        HK, also, sees himself as a law unto himself (just like Twitch
        proclaimed) and that means he can implement the CATCH-22 rule
        anytime he sees fit!

        BTW, in the June 2006 "The Wisdom Notes" Klemp states:

        "Many spiritual issues come to my attention, notably cases of
        ECKists who refuce to accept apparant misfortunes as blessings. They
        try to blame misfortunes on others. BUT who are they fooling? Only
        themselves. The Christian Bible puts it like this: 'Be not deceived;
        God is not mocked.'"

        Can we trust what HK has said because he negates it with the "BUT."
        Here's more Klemp crap from the next paragraph:

        "One such case is that of a middle-aged and lontime ECK Initiate. He
        readily gripes about conditions of his youth as responsible for his
        unrest and unhappiness. Yet surely not himself!"

        Why would a loving Mahanta with any empathy say something like this?
        Who is this anyway - Doug Marman? Should this have been shared in a
        Wisdom Note!?

        Klemp goes on in the next paragraph to say:

        "Whatever comes along in your life, it's good to remember that it's
        always a gift from the Holy Spirit, to strengthen you. There will be
        days when you seriously wonder IF you can bear up to one more such
        gift, even one short hour more of purification. BUT you can. It does
        take lots of love and trust, though."

        See, Klemp uses another "BUT" to negate his comments again! And,
        isn't it interesting that when Eckists do experience the KARMA that
        is not removed by the Mahanta that it becomes a "PURIFICATION" for
        them. Why, then, do Eckists need the Mahanta? Step up to the plate
        and take responsibility and become your own Master. Klemp will
        always make excuses and put it back on you anyway! Oh well, you can
        lead a horse to water BUT you can't make him drink! LOL!

        Prometheus




        ********************************************************************
        "The problem surrounding healing is karmic. The ill person once
        broke a divine principle through ignorance. Psychic healing can ease
        the symptoms for a while, but eventually the sickness surfaces again
        with a new face." by Harold Klemp: Spiritual Wisdom on Health and
        Healing, page 45

        *** You know I have to laugh every time Harold Klemp writes
        something like this in his books, discourses or even when he speaks
        about illnesses to his chelas! He is the perfect example of how
        Karma works when a person brakes a divine principle through
        ignorance! Should the Eck chelas listen to Klemp or the first Eck
        Master Paul Twitchell, concerning Karma and illness? ;-)

        Klemp writes:
        "It is surprising that some ECK initiates never make a connection
        between the Master's physical illness and their own spiritual
        unfoldment. They think, Why is he sick? Karma? How many fail to
        consider that an intense trial of spiritual purification among the
        chelas and people everywhere goes first through the universal body
        of the Mahanta. Those effects naturally show up in the Master's life
        as health or other reverses." - Harold Klemp, H.I. Letter, March
        1996

        *** So basically it is the lowly people of the entire universe and
        the Eck Chela's fault for why Klemp is so ill. (Klemp claims to be
        the holding tank for the Karma of the entire Universe)

        Paul Twitchell writes:
        "No master will ever take over the karma of anyone. He knows better
        for it will destroy his own health and drive him into despair." -
        All About ECK, page 43, Paul Twitchell

        Klemp writes:
        "The Rod of ECK Power gets too hot to handle beyond the time of your
        mission and you have to let it go. Or the Rod of ECK Power will burn
        you to a crisp. That means your health will go to destruction.
        Darwin Gross had to pass it. When my time comes I have to pass it."
        Harold Klemp, Eck H.I. Meeting, 1983 World Wide Of Eck, Los Angeles,
        California

        *** So will there be a New Face added to the Mythical Eck Master
        line up? Or will the board members decide to come clean and tell the
        truth about the lies behind Eckankar? Not likely! LOL
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Everyone, I inserted some more comments on down in this post and changed the title. Thanks again Liz for your original post that got me started. Prometheus
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 24, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Everyone,
          I inserted some more comments on down in this post and changed the
          title. Thanks again Liz for your original post that got me started.

          Prometheus wrote:

          Great Post!
          All of this shows how Klemp uses the Catch-22 method of rule. He
          specializes in giving advice to others while never applying it to
          himself. This delusional and anti-social attitude shows an
          arrogance, a lack of empathy, and a disconnect from humanity and to
          Eck chelas. Klemp contradicts himself often and shows no concern
          about this because he disrespects the Eck puppets who follow his
          nonsense. Klemp talks out of both sides of his mouth as would any
          Kal agent.

          *BTW, Here's some info on what the "CATCH-22" rule/logic refers to:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22


          Here's an example of more Klemp contradictions:

          "When someone says BUT, it's a nail in the coffin of invention. A
          constant stream of contradictions shuts off creativity and a gift
          that may be offered. And when someone say BUT he's stopped
          listening. SO BE AWARE OF USING IF. AND ESPECIALLY WHEN USING BUT,
          BECAUSE IT'S LIMITING... THIS IS PRETTY MUCH FOR OURSELVES, because
          in dealing with others, you may need to use if, and, or but." [The
          H.I. Letter, December 2005 (My caps)]

          Eckists should now read every Mystic World, H.I. Letter, and Letter
          of Light article (Wisdom Notes too) by Klemp since 12/2005, and look
          for IFs and especially for BUTs that Klemp continues to use!

          In the JUNE 2006 "THE WISDOM NOTES" Klemp uses FOUR BUTs!

          So, is Klemp simply unaware of what he has previously said and is
          doing? That's a scary thought for Eckists! What else is screwed up
          due to a lack of attentiveness, and how can he be doing all he
          claims or be ALL KNOWING and POWERFUL as the Mahanta?!

          Or, is Klemp just a liar and con-man, too, and could care less about
          what he says and does? Afterall, most Eckists are basically
          followers and "followers" are both passive and trusting. They don't
          question things because they NEED Eckankar and something outside of
          themSelves to believe in. Questions need Answers and most Eckists
          don't want to really hear those answers, therefore, they don't ask
          the "difficult" questions. Eckists tend to Only ask easy questions
          because these are basically done for re-enforcement of what they
          have already accepted on faith. If the mind wants to believe in and
          accept something then it will find ways to do so. This is why Klemp
          pushes Eckists to use their "Imaginations" and to place mental
          energy and attention on the Mahanta.

          HK, also, sees himself as a law unto himself (just like Twitch
          proclaimed) and that means he can implement the CATCH-22 rule
          anytime he sees fit!

          BTW, in the June 2006 "The Wisdom Notes" Klemp states:

          "Many spiritual issues come to my attention, notably cases of
          ECKists who refuce to accept apparant misfortunes as blessings. They
          try to blame misfortunes on others. BUT who are they fooling? Only
          themselves. The Christian Bible puts it like this: 'Be not deceived;
          God is not mocked.'"

          Can we trust what HK has said because he negates it with the "BUT."
          Here's more Klemp crap from the next paragraph:

          "One such case is that of a middle-aged and lontime ECK Initiate. He
          readily gripes about conditions of his youth as responsible for his
          unrest and unhappiness. Yet surely not himself!"

          Why would a loving Mahanta with any empathy say something like this?
          Who is this anyway - Doug Marman? Should this have been shared in a
          Wisdom Note!?

          Klemp goes on in the next paragraph to say:

          "Whatever comes along in your life, it's good to remember that it's
          always a gift from the Holy Spirit, to strengthen you. There will be
          days when you seriously wonder IF you can bear up to one more such
          gift, even one short hour more of purification. BUT you can. It does
          take lots of love and trust, though."

          See, Klemp uses another "BUT" to negate his comments again! And,
          isn't it interesting that when Eckists do experience the KARMA that
          is not removed by the Mahanta that it becomes a "PURIFICATION" for
          them. Why, then, do Eckists need the Mahanta? Step up to the plate
          and take responsibility and become your own Master. Klemp will
          always make excuses and put it back on you anyway! Oh well, you can
          lead a horse to water BUT you can't make him drink! LOL!
          *******************************************************************

          In The H.I. Letter - JUNE, 2006 Klemp uses just two "BUTs," however,
          it's what he negates according to his own standards, that he
          borrowed from Kant, that I find interesting. Klemp also has to quote
          from Twitchell's "Stranger by the River" since he, himself, has
          never written anything equivalent to this! : )

          HK: "It flows into all worlds below, through all of creation. It
          flows outward. BUT then, very unlike the great earthly river, It
          reverses course. The awsome Life Stream flows back through creation
          and once more into the heart of God, the Ocean of Love and Mercy."

          Actually, this whole H.I. Letter is disappointing! Where's the meat -
          the spiritual food? Klemp just repepeats the same old simplistic
          dogma over and over as though everyone is a newbie to Eck. Such is
          his consciousness! Anyway here's the continuation and the next thing
          that Klemp negates.

          HK: "The seeker knew some of this. BUT only a true Master could
          impart the deep secrets of God. And then he saw him--his Master, the
          wonderful ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs."

          So, Klemp, once again, is re-enforcing the belief in the fictitious
          Rebazar because Eckankar was founded upon his existence by Twitchell.
          WITHOUT THE BELIEF IN REBAZAR THERE IS NO Eckankar, Eck Masters,
          Mahanta, and Initiations!

          At the start of Klemp's front page article in June 2006 H.I. Letter
          he talks about a phrase in the lyrics to a Hank Williams song. The
          phrase was, 'the waltz of the wind.'

          I find this to be another contradiction by Klemp because in his
          October 2005 EWWS talk he states that, "Every thought, word or deed
          either purifies or pollutes the body" and this is why HK got rid of
          all of his CDs that had just "one negative song" on them. Klemp
          stated that he had a lot of Country Western 'tear jerker' songs that
          he gave away. Funny, Why would the LEM/Mahanta give "negative" songs
          to others, unless, HK was an agent for the Kal!

          Anyway Klemp, once again, is talking about Country Western music and
          Hank Williams and is using some lyrics he has recently listened to
          for his talk. Now HK didn't specify Hank "Sr." or "Jr." which is
          another oversight of detail that makes me question HK's mental
          state. So, it seems Klemp didn't pitch every Country Western CD.

          Just for the fun of it I looked up some Hank Sr. song titles that
          Klemp might still enjoy:

          -Are You Walking And A-Talking With the Lord
          -Cold Cold Heart
          -Be Careful of Stones That You Throw
          -My Love For You (Has Turned to Hate)
          -Alone and Forsaken
          -Howlin' At the Moon
          -Jesus Died For Me
          -May You Never Be Alone Like Me
          -30 Pieces of Silver or *Remember Darwin
          -A Home in Heaven
          -My Bucket's Got A Hole In It
          -Moanin' The Blues
          -Why Should I Cry
          -I Told A Lie To My Heart
          And the next one I thought would fit him perfectly : )
          -Two Faced Preacher

          ********************************************************************
          HK: "The problem surrounding healing is karmic. The ill person once
          broke a divine principle through ignorance. Psychic healing can ease
          the symptoms for a while, but eventually the sickness surfaces again
          with a new face." by Harold Klemp: Spiritual Wisdom on Health and
          Healing, page 45

          *** You know I have to laugh every time Harold Klemp writes
          something like this in his books, discourses or even when he speaks
          about illnesses to his chelas! He is the perfect example of how
          Karma works when a person brakes a divine principle through
          ignorance! Should the Eck chelas listen to Klemp or the first Eck
          Master Paul Twitchell, concerning Karma and illness? ;-)

          Klemp writes:
          "It is surprising that some ECK initiates never make a connection
          between the Master's physical illness and their own spiritual
          unfoldment. They think, Why is he sick? Karma? How many fail to
          consider that an intense trial of spiritual purification among the
          chelas and people everywhere goes first through the universal body
          of the Mahanta. Those effects naturally show up in the Master's life
          as health or other reverses." - Harold Klemp, H.I. Letter, March
          1996

          *** So basically it is the lowly people of the entire universe and
          the Eck Chela's fault for why Klemp is so ill. (Klemp claims to be
          the holding tank for the Karma of the entire Universe)

          Paul Twitchell writes:
          "No master will ever take over the karma of anyone. He knows better
          for it will destroy his own health and drive him into despair." -
          All About ECK, page 43, Paul Twitchell

          Klemp writes:
          "The Rod of ECK Power gets too hot to handle beyond the time of your
          mission and you have to let it go. Or the Rod of ECK Power will burn
          you to a crisp. That means your health will go to destruction.
          Darwin Gross had to pass it. When my time comes I have to pass it."
          Harold Klemp, Eck H.I. Meeting, 1983 World Wide Of Eck, Los Angeles,
          California

          *** So will there be a New Face added to the Mythical Eck Master
          line up? Or will the board members decide to come clean and tell the
          truth about the lies behind Eckankar? Not likely! LOL
        • prometheus_973
          Hi All, I find it interesting that Klemp has eliminated a great number of Twitchell s books and that Eckists don t seem to be concerned. Perhaps, Klemp s spin
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 25, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi All,
            I find it interesting that Klemp has eliminated a great number of
            Twitchell's books and that Eckists don't seem to be concerned.

            Perhaps, Klemp's spin on this is that he is bringing Eckankar into
            the 21st Century and, therefore, the purpose of having a Living
            Master is to have a current version of truth. Also, a Living Master
            can "teach" while explaining away (and correcting) any confusions in
            dogma, etc. that might still linger from the past and, thus, a
            living link is needed to keep the teachings "pure" and alive.
            Actually, this is more the Radhasoami explaination for having a
            Living Master than Klemp's, although, Klemp does mimic this
            explaination, to various degrees, as well.

            However, how does eliminating or correcting the ECK teachings of
            Twitchell keep them PURE? That's like separating the straw from a
            cow pattie and saying, There, now it's pure!

            Klemp has, thus, re-molded Eckankar to look more and more Christian.
            This is because of his own background and training and this is why
            Klemp quotes from the Bible as much as he does and why there are
            Worship Services, Choirs, A Song Book, Clerics, Missionaries,
            Donations, a Hierarchy, and a God called God! After all Eckankar is
            Not called - the Religion of the Light and Sound of Sugmad!

            Actually, much of Twitchell's written work is fiction, distortions,
            and plagiarisms. And, unfortunately, PT's philosophy and his scam
            are all intertwind. Therefore, Klemp has kept some material and
            eliminated the rest. Unfortunately, for Klemp, he had no choice but
            to keep some of the plagiarized material because it was in the Holy
            Shariyats of Eckankar. Also, HK kept "Stranger by the River" because
            he needs the Rebazar connection and this is an important book for a
            spiritual seeker to relate to and one that HK could never duplicate!

            However, why isn't "Dialogues With the Master" offered anymore? This
            is a book that has Rebazar doing most of the talking. One would
            think that Klemp would want to share this wisdom coming from "the
            wonderful ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs!"

            Well, I'll have to continue this topic later. Please feel free to
            add more to the discussion and ponderings.

            Prometheus


            Liz wrote:
            HK: "The problem surrounding healing is karmic. The ill person once
            broke a divine principle through ignorance. Psychic healing can ease
            the symptoms for a while, but eventually the sickness surfaces again
            with a new face." by Harold Klemp: Spiritual Wisdom on Health and
            Healing, page 45

            *** You know I have to laugh every time Harold Klemp writes
            something like this in his books, discourses or even when he speaks
            about illnesses to his chelas! He is the perfect example of how
            Karma works when a person brakes a divine principle through
            ignorance! Should the Eck chelas listen to Klemp or the first Eck
            Master Paul Twitchell, concerning Karma and illness? ;-)

            Klemp writes:
            "It is surprising that some ECK initiates never make a connection
            between the Master's physical illness and their own spiritual
            unfoldment. They think, Why is he sick? Karma? How many fail to
            consider that an intense trial of spiritual purification among the
            chelas and people everywhere goes first through the universal body
            of the Mahanta. Those effects naturally show up in the Master's life
            as health or other reverses." - Harold Klemp, H.I. Letter, March
            1996

            *** So basically it is the lowly people of the entire universe and
            the Eck Chela's fault for why Klemp is so ill. (Klemp claims to be
            the holding tank for the Karma of the entire Universe)

            Paul Twitchell writes:
            "No master will ever take over the karma of anyone. He knows better
            for it will destroy his own health and drive him into despair." -
            All About ECK, page 43, Paul Twitchell

            Klemp writes:
            "The Rod of ECK Power gets too hot to handle beyond the time of your
            mission and you have to let it go. Or the Rod of ECK Power will burn
            you to a crisp. That means your health will go to destruction.
            Darwin Gross had to pass it. When my time comes I have to pass it."
            Harold Klemp, Eck H.I. Meeting, 1983 World Wide Of Eck, Los Angeles,
            California

            *** So will there be a New Face added to the Mythical Eck Master
            line up? Or will the board members decide to come clean and tell the
            truth about the lies behind Eckankar? Not likely! LOL
          • mishmisha9
            A more correct explanation for Klemp s sickliness is that he has poisoned his Soul with lies and scams. He s a dishonest heap of . . . crap! Too bad so many
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 25, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              A more correct explanation for Klemp's sickliness is that he has
              poisoned his Soul with lies and scams. He's a dishonest heap
              of . . . crap! Too bad so many fall for his scam!

              Mish

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, ewickings@...
              wrote:
              >
              > Not only is Klemp delusional, he has set himself up as a martyr!
              What a
              > guy...
              >
              >
              > Thank you Mahanta for your selfless sacrifice to the entire
              universe. ;-)
              >
              >
              > Just thought I would finish my thoughts on this topic,
              > and wish everyone a nice weekend!
              > TGIF
              >
              > Liz
              > -------------------------------------------------------------------
              -----------
              > ----------------
              > Klemp writes:
              > "It is surprising that some ECK initiates never make a connection
              > between the Master's physical illness and their own spiritual
              > unfoldment. They think, Why is he sick? Karma? How many fail to
              > consider that an intense trial of spiritual purification among the
              > chelas and people everywhere goes first through the universal
              body of
              > the Mahanta. Those effects naturally show up in the Master's life
              as
              > health or other reverses." - Harold Klemp, H.I. Letter, March 1996
              >
              > *** So basically it is the lowly people of the entire universe
              and the Eck
              > Chela's fault for why Klemp is so ill. (Klemp claims to be the
              holding tank
              > for the Karma of the entire
              > Universe)
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hi Again, It is interesting that Twitchell eliminated Chastity (and vegetarianism) from the Eck teachings. The Virture of Chastity has only one opposing
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 25, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Again,
                It is interesting that Twitchell eliminated Chastity (and
                vegetarianism) from the Eck teachings. The Virture of Chastity has
                only one opposing Passion and that is Lust. Twitchell changed this
                and Eckists still haven't figured out why it is so difficult for
                them to match the 5 Passions to the 5 Virtures! LOL!

                Radhasoami and Paul's real Master, Kirpal Singh, had two issues of
                dogma that the Western students had problems with. Twitchell flip-
                flop on these issues, at one time, himself.

                PT: "There are thousands of paths to God. Yes, we realize that. Any
                church, any group, any cult, any of those eventually will lead to
                God... Now, it was like St. Francis said that all we care for in our
                lives is purity, chastity and freedom, and they are all incidential,
                go together. So in the liberation of ourselves, our Soul of Itself,
                then that's all we are looking for is freedom and chastity and
                purity. Now, why do we say this in the sense of these three things?
                It's simply because, as St. Francis said, 'They go together.' If you
                are liberated from all things here by being in the God-conscious
                state, then you are yourself free from everything else." [The Way of
                Eckankar Series By Sri Paul Twitchell, pages 25-26, circa 1967]

                So, this is one more reason for Klemp to destroy these older
                writings of Twitchell.

                However, why were the older writings of Darwin Gross the 972nd
                LEM/Mahanta destroyed by Klemp? When "From Heaven to the Prairie"
                was written Darwin was giving Klemp his 8th and 9th Initiations!
                This is a historical book for Eckankar. Why is Klemp destroying the
                written history of an Eck Master and Mahanta? What does Klemp fear
                and why? Censorship pollutes the Eck teachings! Did Gross become a
                Black Magician overnight?

                This is one more question for Eckists to ask Klemp, except, they
                can't! Who would dare! You'd never get another initiation, or if you
                worked at the ESC you'd be fired - subtley of course! So, If Darwin
                was a Black Magician and thief then he wasn't qualified to give the
                initiations but everyone got them anyway. Therefore, none of those
                who got initiations with DG's name on the pink slip deserved them -
                including Klemp! Or, let's say that DG didn't turn into a thief and
                Black Magician until after Klemp became the LEM. This would mean
                that all books and discourses that Gross wrote were valid Eck
                Teachings. So, why aren't they made available to Eckists?!

                Oh well, I just had more thoughts on the subject. : )

                Prometheus







                I find it interesting that Klemp has eliminated a great number of
                Twitchell's books and that Eckists don't seem to be concerned.

                Perhaps, Klemp's spin on this is that he is bringing Eckankar into
                the 21st Century and, therefore, the purpose of having a Living
                Master is to have a current version of truth. Also, a Living Master
                can "teach" while explaining away (and correcting) any confusions in
                dogma, etc. that might still linger from the past and, thus, a
                living link is needed to keep the teachings "pure" and alive.
                Actually, this is more the Radhasoami explaination for having a
                Living Master than Klemp's, although, Klemp does mimic this
                explaination, to various degrees, as well.

                However, how does eliminating or correcting the ECK teachings of
                Twitchell keep them PURE? That's like separating the straw from a
                cow pattie and saying, There, now it's pure!

                Klemp has, thus, re-molded Eckankar to look more and more Christian.
                This is because of his own background and training and this is why
                Klemp quotes from the Bible as much as he does and why there are
                Worship Services, Choirs, A Song Book, Clerics, Missionaries,
                Donations, a Hierarchy, and a God called God! After all Eckankar is
                Not called - the Religion of the Light and Sound of Sugmad!

                Actually, much of Twitchell's written work is fiction, distortions,
                and plagiarisms. And, unfortunately, PT's philosophy and his scam
                are all intertwind. Therefore, Klemp has kept some material and
                eliminated the rest. Unfortunately, for Klemp, he had no choice but
                to keep some of the plagiarized material because it was in the Holy
                Shariyats of Eckankar. Also, HK kept "Stranger by the River" because
                he needs the Rebazar connection and this is an important book for a
                spiritual seeker to relate to and one that HK could never duplicate!

                However, why isn't "Dialogues With the Master" offered anymore? This
                is a book that has Rebazar doing most of the talking. One would
                think that Klemp would want to share this wisdom coming from "the
                wonderful ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs!"

                Well, I'll have to continue this topic later. Please feel free to
                add more to the discussion and ponderings.

                Prometheus
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.