Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: The Spiritual Hierarchy according to the Eckankar Lexicon

Expand Messages
  • mishmisha9
    Hello, Prometheus and Ingrid! I like your comments about the spiritual hierarchy and how passive eckists seem to be. It always seemed to me in discussion
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 10, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello, Prometheus and Ingrid!

      I like your comments about the spiritual hierarchy and how passive
      eckists seem to be. It always seemed to me in discussion groups that
      every problem a person had, no matter how trivial or immense, all
      one had to do was take it to the inner/surrender it to the mahanta.
      I could never figure out how anybody resolved anything in the "real"
      world. If you were having a problem with a co-worker or boss at your
      work place, all you had to do was take it to the inner--and smile
      outwardly as though nothing was amiss, because the beloved mahanta
      was taking care of it for you and protecting you--or I guess
      eventually the problem would just fade away, replaced by something
      else to take to the inner. My problem with doing this so much, it
      seemed, that we were not really connecting with the outer at all--
      everything was given up to the inner. No balance of the two! And it
      seems that "life" was just passing by, wasted!

      Mish

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
      <ctecvie@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Prometheus,
      >
      > > Isn't it strange that Eckists just don't seem to question
      > authority.
      > > Even Catholics (American) will question the infalliabity of the
      > Pope
      > > and the laws of the Church. Why are Eckists so passive,
      > introverted,
      > > and socially inept? Please don't confuse this mindless fog of
      > > approval with detachment.
      >
      > This is in the teachings in my opinion. You get "trained" (or is
      it
      > brainwashed??) during the time you stay in Eckankar. And there
      comes
      > a moment where you cannot see any more what is questionable in the
      > teachings. In my case when I did not understand something I
      thought
      > it was me - that I just not spiritually evolved enough to
      > understand. :-) That's why it's a bit dangerous in my opinion to
      > say "well let those who want join and see for themselves". It's
      true
      > in a way but then if we can, why shouldn't we point out the danges
      > beforehand? Doing that is what Harold calls "spiritual murder" I
      > guess. :-)
      >
      > > On page 197 of "A Cosmic Sea of Words, The Eckankar Lexicon" is
      the
      > > definition for spiritual hierarchy. I find it interesting that
      > Klemp
      > > has taken 95% of the Eckankar Dictionary by Paul Twitchell but
      does
      > > not mention this in the jacket. Klemp "created" another book to
      add
      > > to the multitude by deleting and revising interesting
      information,
      > > while adding his own twist.
      >
      > Yes there is more than one twist here, and that's what makes the
      > underlying truth worthless ...
      >
      >
      > > I will give my own comments to the problems with this definition
      > > after listing it as follows:
      > >
      > > "Beginning with the Sugmad, followed by the ECK and the Mahanta,
      > the
      > > Living ECK Master, the Adepts of the Order of the Vairagi, the
      > Lords
      > > of each plane within the higher worlds, the guardians of the
      > > Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad. Over the lower worlds Sugmad placed Kal
      > > Niranjan, the Lord of the negative worlds; then came the Lords
      of
      > > Karma, the devas (angels), planetary spirits, bhuts, and
      > elementals;
      > > then came man and all the creatures subordinate to him: fish,
      > > animals, reptiles, plants, and stones."
      > >
      > > In the Eckankar Dictionary Twitchell mentions the Mahanta and
      > > the "Living ECK Masters" (plural). And, where are the Nine
      Silent
      > > Ones? Where is Sat Nam? Where is Soul listed in this hierarchy?
      NO
      > > WHERE! Also, why would fish be listed before animals? This
      doesn't
      > > make sense! If Harold was going to do a revision and take full
      > > credit for this book then why did he (the infalliable mahanta)
      > screw
      > > this up! The highest consciousness on the planet (the L.E.M.,
      > > Mahanta) really let us down on this one! Do you think anything
      else
      > > might not be what it seems in the Eckankar Corporation?
      > >
      > > Anyway, I'm amazed that I never really looked at this before! I
      > > guess I was just used to accepting everything and anything
      without
      > > question. Of course, if one did have questions, to whom would
      you
      > > ask? Too many questions doesn't look good because it makes it
      seem
      > > you have doubts and are "out-of-balance." Eckankar teaches
      people
      > to
      > > fit in (cult behavior) by not asking questions and learning to
      shut-
      > > up and take it (questions) to the "inner."
      >
      > I'm amazed, too! Yes you just get used to not asking questions any
      > more because you "get it on the inner!" :-)
      >
      > Ingrid
      > >
      > > Prometheus
    • ctecvie
      Hello Mish! ... that ... the real ... your ... You are right - I had this same impression, that they didn t connect with the real outer world. And it even
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 10, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Mish!

        > I like your comments about the spiritual hierarchy and how passive
        > eckists seem to be. It always seemed to me in discussion groups
        that
        > every problem a person had, no matter how trivial or immense, all
        > one had to do was take it to the inner/surrender it to the mahanta.
        > I could never figure out how anybody resolved anything in
        the "real"
        > world. If you were having a problem with a co-worker or boss at
        your
        > work place, all you had to do was take it to the inner--and smile
        > outwardly as though nothing was amiss, because the beloved mahanta
        > was taking care of it for you and protecting you--or I guess
        > eventually the problem would just fade away, replaced by something
        > else to take to the inner. My problem with doing this so much, it
        > seemed, that we were not really connecting with the outer at all--
        > everything was given up to the inner. No balance of the two! And it
        > seems that "life" was just passing by, wasted!

        You are right - I had this same impression, that they didn't connect
        with the real outer world. And it even seemed to me that the more
        inner experiences some people had, the less they could live their
        outer life! I remember one story that fits well into this context I
        think.

        When one eckist was in the hospital, there was a lot of noise during
        visit time because one other patient had quite a lot of visitors who,
        on top of this, stayed longer than the allowed time. This eckist
        badly needed her calm and quiet because she needed to recover from
        the surgery or whatever she had had. She wanted the visitors to leave
        so she asked the mahanta to help her. And, would you believe? A few
        minutes afterwards the doctor came and asked the visitors to leave,
        so she was very relieved.

        Well, I always thought she would have resolved that problem rather
        easily and more quickly - by asking the people directly ... :-)

        Ingrid
      • mishmisha9
        Hello, Ingrid! Yes, that is a good example of a person avoiding life situations. It seemed to me that many eckists had very poor social skills, and being in
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 10, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello, Ingrid!

          Yes, that is a good example of a person avoiding "life" situations.
          It seemed to me that many eckists had very poor social skills, and
          being in the org. didn't help them improve. But if you look at
          Harold and his personal stories, his skills have been lacking as
          well. This might be one reason why it would be difficult for some
          eckists to leave even though they are aware of the lies and
          deceptions pervasive in eckankar. In a way, some may be trapped by
          their lack of self-confidence which impedes self-responsibility. Of
          course, there are other reasons eckists will not leave, but that can
          be another discussion!

          Mish

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
          <ctecvie@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Mish!
          >
          > > I like your comments about the spiritual hierarchy and how
          passive
          > > eckists seem to be. It always seemed to me in discussion groups
          > that
          > > every problem a person had, no matter how trivial or immense,
          all
          > > one had to do was take it to the inner/surrender it to the
          mahanta.
          > > I could never figure out how anybody resolved anything in
          > the "real"
          > > world. If you were having a problem with a co-worker or boss at
          > your
          > > work place, all you had to do was take it to the inner--and
          smile
          > > outwardly as though nothing was amiss, because the beloved
          mahanta
          > > was taking care of it for you and protecting you--or I guess
          > > eventually the problem would just fade away, replaced by
          something
          > > else to take to the inner. My problem with doing this so much,
          it
          > > seemed, that we were not really connecting with the outer at all-
          -
          > > everything was given up to the inner. No balance of the two! And
          it
          > > seems that "life" was just passing by, wasted!
          >
          > You are right - I had this same impression, that they didn't
          connect
          > with the real outer world. And it even seemed to me that the more
          > inner experiences some people had, the less they could live their
          > outer life! I remember one story that fits well into this context
          I
          > think.
          >
          > When one eckist was in the hospital, there was a lot of noise
          during
          > visit time because one other patient had quite a lot of visitors
          who,
          > on top of this, stayed longer than the allowed time. This eckist
          > badly needed her calm and quiet because she needed to recover from
          > the surgery or whatever she had had. She wanted the visitors to
          leave
          > so she asked the mahanta to help her. And, would you believe? A
          few
          > minutes afterwards the doctor came and asked the visitors to
          leave,
          > so she was very relieved.
          >
          > Well, I always thought she would have resolved that problem rather
          > easily and more quickly - by asking the people directly ... :-)
          >
          > Ingrid
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.