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Re: True, Necessary, Kind? RePost from Truth Seeker

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  • mishmisha9
    Hi, Kaye and All! TS has a new post on his BB, 4/30/2006, Weekly Posting: Response to Q Whan on Plagiarism and Other Matters which goes along in part with
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 30, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi, Kaye and All!

      TS has a new post on his BB, 4/30/2006, "Weekly Posting: Response to
      Q Whan on Plagiarism and Other Matters" which goes along in part
      with this other repost (below) from the Truth Seeker Message Board,
      regarding PT's plagiarism of the Buddha quote.

      Ford Johnson writes:

      "I have maintained in Confessions that I was able to overcome the
      charges of plagiarism in my earlier reading of Lane's work because I
      too was not so concerned with the source of the statement as long as
      it represented the truth--to the degree that the writer saw and
      understood that truth. But Paul did not live up to this standard and
      that is why the old rationale of looking past the idiosyncrasies of
      Paul, lifting the works of others i.e. plagiarism, could no longer
      be overlooked.

      Through uncovering and analyzing his many techniques of distortion
      and brainwashing, it became clear that the intentions of this man
      were not noble as I had assumed. I had to search into the mysteries
      of mythomania (pathological lying) before any reconciling principle
      could be found to explain the actions of a person who appeared
      sincere and working from the highest principles on the one hand yet
      continuously engaged in lying of the most extensive, often
      unnecessaary, and obviously refutable type. So, PAUL GAVE UP HIS
      RIGHT TO OUR THANKS AND APPRECIATION FOR BRINGING THIS INFORMATION
      TO OUR ATTENTION BY USING THE TRUTH TO OPEN THE DOOR TO OUR
      CONSCIOUS ACCEPTANCE OF HIM AND HIS WRITINGS WHILE PLANTING LIES OF
      SUCH MAGINTUDE THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE QUESTIONED(my caps). This is
      the strategy of the 'great lie' about which he was most familiar and
      used extensively.

      That is why reading Paul has been equated with swimming with sharks.
      A lie can pop out at any time to bite, i.e. infect the store of
      information that has been allowed into our consciousness as truth."

      Ford further states: "Many now in Eckankar can not bear to read
      Confessions. They are simply not prepared to confront information
      that they suspect can dislocate their comfortable equilibrium. This
      is ego's way of protecting them now because they really can't deal
      with truth at this time. They are not willing to go through the
      dislocation that truth will foster if they seek a new equilibrium.
      While this is the inevitable process of spiritual growth, ego
      protects each of us until we are ready to handle the next dose of
      truth. That is why a love for, indeed the imperative of truth, is
      the most important ingredient in the spiritual unfoldment of the
      individual. Some of us are truth-seekers while others are,
      temporarily at least, 'gate keepers.'"

      It seems to me, that even some former eckists continue to have a
      problem with acknowledging the "imperative of truth." They cling to
      what they held so dearly in the eck teachings, maintaining that
      these were truths they would not have found elsewhere, that Paul
      gave them so much, etc. But when in fact, the truths/valuable
      lessons were stolen and Paul had just signed his name to them!
      Priscus was happy to discover that the "Is it true, is it necessary,
      is it kind" quote originated outside of eckankar. He valued it, but
      now knowing that it did not from PT or Rebazar or eckankar, he can
      let go of another org lie. He says it is wonderful to know this real
      truth!

      I realize it is hard to look at what we once thought was true but is
      clearly a lie. Our ego will rationalize to cushion that shock and/or
      denial, but the greatest freedom does come from facing truth head-
      on, acknowledging it in its entirety. There is no shame in being
      duped or deceived, because now we see. Now we know, and we should
      say as Priscus did--it's "wonderful!" And we need to share what we
      learned with others!

      Mish


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "eyesopen444"
      <eyesopen444@...> wrote:

      Hi everyone,
      I read this great post on the Truth Seeker site and wanted to share
      it with you.

      Have Fun.

      Kaye

      Journey
      4/25/2006

      The eck Quote by Buddha: " True, Necessary, Kind"

      Hello, Priscus!

      Thank you for asking where I found the quote by Buddha. I read it on
      page 349, in Julian Johnson's book, published 1939, "The Path of the
      Masters." Julian Johnson wrote: "A rule laid down by the noble
      Buddha is a most excellent one for all men to follow. He (Buddha)
      said that if you propose to speak, always ask yourself—`is it true,
      is it necessary, is it kind?'" I used the quote, attributing it to
      Buddha, thinking that Harald might respond somewhat as you have. It
      is an often used quote by Eckists, and even the eck singing
      vahanas, "The Hindu Kush Mountain Boys Plus One," wrote a song based
      on it in the mid 80's and made the quote more popular and attributed
      to Eckankar. I did enjoy hearing this group perform on more than one
      occasion. I agree that it is a fine quote; however, it has been over-
      used in Eckankar when enforcing the Law of Silence, so it is an eck
      suppression tool. It's interesting, that at one time, JPT once spoke
      of this as being the "art of silence." You may recall that Usually
      Skeptical (Nacal) showed how Klemp did not follow this rule himself
      in regards to the Postal Worker story. I have been reading Klemp's
      latest book, "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," and have noted that
      Klemp is now calling some chelas "losers," (found on page 211) so
      again it appears that Klemp continues to not apply this rule to
      himself.

      In "Confessions of a God Seeker," Ford explains how Twitchell
      plagiarized from "The Path of the Masters," so it is rather evident
      that this quote is still another example of something that Twitchell
      plagiarized from other sources in creating Eckankar. In moving away
      from the eck experience, it does help to sort out what you found
      valuable and be able to learn that those "truths" originated else
      where, and you can then believe that you might very well have found
      them yourself in other sources which attribute them rightfully to
      their originator. It is my conclusion, and a helpful one for me, to
      realize that it is not necessary to credit and thank Eckankar for
      spiritual growth, even though I had an experience there. Eckankar is
      not a necessary stepping stone on the spiritual path.

      <snip>

      Best Wishes,
      Journey
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hi All, Swimming through the lies of Twitchell is worse than swimming with sharks and getting bit! The problem with trying to sift through the lies in the
      Message 2 of 8 , May 2, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi All,
        Swimming through the lies of Twitchell is worse than swimming with
        sharks and getting bit! The problem with trying to sift through the
        lies in the Eck(ankar) teachings in order to find "truth" is that
        truth and fiction are intertwined. And, even the quality of
        these "truths" are questionable. These other sources for "truth"
        that Twitchell used are Not necessarily the highest! So, one needs
        to be really cautious when sifting through and accepting anything
        that Twitchell used in any and all of his books!

        Some of the fiction that Twitchell came up with are: the Eck
        Initiations; the Eck Masters; the Rod of Eck Power and the Mahanta!
        These were all creations for Twitchell's religious scam and new
        vocation! Therefore, just look at everything else, in the Eck dogma,
        that are tied into these basic lies! Gross and Klemp were fooled
        too, at first. However, they soon realized, after taking power as
        the LEM/Mahanta, that the Mahanta Consciousness too was a hoax!

        Eckankar is a crutch like every other religion out there and,
        therefore, Eckists will always be taught to "need" their crutch!
        There will never be independence, Self-Mastery, and Spiritual
        Freedom for Eckists! The Initiation carrot will always keep them in
        the race. Besides, it feels good for Eckists' egos to "know" that
        they are the most evolved Souls on all Planes of Consciousness! LOL!
        However, I must admit that it is nice to feel safe and secure...
        only for REAL! When will the Eck eaglets ever grow the feathers to
        leave the nest and soar on their own - Never! If Klemp has his way!
        <smile>

        Prometheus




        mishmisha wrote:

        Hi, Kaye and All!

        TS has a new post on his BB, 4/30/2006, "Weekly Posting: Response to
        Q Whan on Plagiarism and Other Matters" which goes along in part
        with this other repost (below) from the Truth Seeker Message Board,
        regarding PT's plagiarism of the Buddha quote.

        *********************************************************************

        Ford Johnson writes:
        [quote]
        "I have maintained in Confessions that I was able to overcome the
        charges of plagiarism in my earlier reading of Lane's work because I
        too was not so concerned with the source of the statement as long as
        it represented the truth--to the degree that the writer saw and
        understood that truth. But Paul did not live up to this standard and
        that is why the old rationale of looking past the idiosyncrasies of
        Paul, lifting the works of others i.e. plagiarism, could no longer
        be overlooked.

        Through uncovering and analyzing his many techniques of distortion
        and brainwashing, it became clear that the intentions of this man
        were not noble as I had assumed. I had to search into the mysteries
        of mythomania (pathological lying) before any reconciling principle
        could be found to explain the actions of a person who appeared
        sincere and working from the highest principles on the one hand yet
        continuously engaged in lying of the most extensive, often
        unnecessaary, and obviously refutable type.

        So, PAUL GAVE UP HIS RIGHT TO OUR THANKS AND APPRECIATION FOR
        BRINGING THIS INFORMATION TO OUR ATTENTION BY USING THE TRUTH TO
        OPEN THE DOOR TO OUR CONSCIOUS ACCEPTANCE OF HIM AND HIS WRITINGS
        WHILE PLANTING LIES OF SUCH MAGINTUDE THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE
        QUESTIONED(my caps).

        This is the strategy of the 'great lie' about which he was most
        familiar and used extensively.

        That is why reading Paul has been equated with swimming with sharks.
        A lie can pop out at any time to bite, i.e. infect the store of
        information that has been allowed into our consciousness as truth."
        [end of quote]

        ********************************************************************

        Ford further states: "Many now in Eckankar can not bear to read
        Confessions. They are simply not prepared to confront information
        that they suspect can dislocate their comfortable equilibrium. This
        is ego's way of protecting them now because they really can't deal
        with truth at this time. They are not willing to go through the
        dislocation that truth will foster if they seek a new equilibrium.
        While this is the inevitable process of spiritual growth, ego
        protects each of us until we are ready to handle the next dose of
        truth. That is why a love for, indeed the imperative of truth, is
        the most important ingredient in the spiritual unfoldment of the
        individual. Some of us are truth-seekers while others are,
        temporarily at least, 'gate keepers.'"

        It seems to me, that even some former eckists continue to have a
        problem with acknowledging the "imperative of truth." They cling to
        what they held so dearly in the eck teachings, maintaining that
        these were truths they would not have found elsewhere, that Paul
        gave them so much, etc. But when in fact, the truths/valuable
        lessons were stolen and Paul had just signed his name to them!
        Priscus was happy to discover that the "Is it true, is it necessary,
        is it kind" quote originated outside of eckankar. He valued it, but
        now knowing that it did not from PT or Rebazar or eckankar, he can
        let go of another org lie. He says it is wonderful to know this real
        truth!

        I realize it is hard to look at what we once thought was true but is
        clearly a lie. Our ego will rationalize to cushion that shock and/or
        denial, but the greatest freedom does come from facing truth head-
        on, acknowledging it in its entirety. There is no shame in being
        duped or deceived, because now we see. Now we know, and we should
        say as Priscus did--it's "wonderful!" And we need to share what we
        learned with others!

        Mish


        eyesopen wrote:

        Hi everyone,
        I read this great post on the Truth Seeker site and wanted to share
        it with you.

        Have Fun.

        Kaye

        Journey
        4/25/2006

        The eck Quote by Buddha: " True, Necessary, Kind"

        Hello, Priscus!

        Thank you for asking where I found the quote by Buddha. I read it on
        page 349, in Julian Johnson's book, published 1939, "The Path of the
        Masters." Julian Johnson wrote: "A rule laid down by the noble
        Buddha is a most excellent one for all men to follow. He (Buddha)
        said that if you propose to speak, always ask yourself—`is it true,
        is it necessary, is it kind?'" I used the quote, attributing it to
        Buddha, thinking that Harald might respond somewhat as you have. It
        is an often used quote by Eckists, and even the eck singing
        vahanas, "The Hindu Kush Mountain Boys Plus One," wrote a song based
        on it in the mid 80's and made the quote more popular and attributed
        to Eckankar. I did enjoy hearing this group perform on more than one
        occasion. I agree that it is a fine quote; however, it has been over-
        used in Eckankar when enforcing the Law of Silence, so it is an eck
        suppression tool. It's interesting, that at one time, JPT once spoke
        of this as being the "art of silence." You may recall that Usually
        Skeptical (Nacal) showed how Klemp did not follow this rule himself
        in regards to the Postal Worker story. I have been reading Klemp's
        latest book, "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," and have noted that
        Klemp is now calling some chelas "losers," (found on page 211) so
        again it appears that Klemp continues to not apply this rule to
        himself.

        In "Confessions of a God Seeker," Ford explains how Twitchell
        plagiarized from "The Path of the Masters," so it is rather evident
        that this quote is still another example of something that Twitchell
        plagiarized from other sources in creating Eckankar. In moving away
        from the eck experience, it does help to sort out what you found
        valuable and be able to learn that those "truths" originated else
        where, and you can then believe that you might very well have found
        them yourself in other sources which attribute them rightfully to
        their originator. It is my conclusion, and a helpful one for me, to
        realize that it is not necessary to credit and thank Eckankar for
        spiritual growth, even though I had an experience there. Eckankar is
        not a necessary stepping stone on the spiritual path.

        <snip>

        Best Wishes,
        Journey
      • mishmisha9
        ... Hi, Kaye and All! TS has a new post on his BB, 4/30/2006, Weekly Posting: Response to Q Whan on Plagiarism and Other Matters which goes along in part
        Message 3 of 8 , May 5, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          >mishmisha wrote:

          Hi, Kaye and All!

          TS has a new post on his BB, 4/30/2006, "Weekly Posting: Response to
          Q Whan on Plagiarism and Other Matters" which goes along in part
          with this other repost (below) from the Truth Seeker Message Board,
          regarding PT's plagiarism of the Buddha quote.

          This is a portion of Ford Johnson's post: "Many now in Eckankar can
          not bear to read Confessions. They are simply not prepared to
          confront information that they suspect can dislocate their
          comfortable equilibrium. This is ego's way of protecting them now
          because they really can't deal with truth at this time. They are not
          willing to go through the dislocation that truth will foster if they
          seek a new equilibrium. While this is the inevitable process of
          spiritual growth, ego protects each of us until we are ready to
          handle the next dose of truth. That is why a love for, indeed the
          imperative of truth, is the most important ingredient in the
          spiritual unfoldment of the individual. Some of us are truth-seekers
          while others are, temporarily at least, 'gate keepers.'"

          >

          Hi, All!

          I wanted to take a portion from the earlier post to highlight what
          Ford wrote about why many eckists cannot and/or do not want to read
          his book "Confessions of a God Seeker." I think what Ford stated
          expresses it very well. For sure the ego is looking to be protected,
          but there is also the initial reason the ego seeks to be led and
          indoctrinated. It seems that many prefer taking the "easy way" by
          agreeing to being a follower of some godman--even accepting the fact
          that the spiritual goal of attaining spiritual freedom will not be
          achieved in this lifetime. These followers seem like sleep walkers
          in that they know very well that the eagerly sought higher
          initiations will take forever! But they don't seem to mind, or
          perhaps the law of silence and the threat of being called a loser by
          the mahanta keeps them waking up to the truth! Of course, while the
          lower initiates are slowly chasing the carrot of initiations,
          eckankar is earning their money! : )

          "The Easy Way," of course, is the name of the first discourse that
          is offered in eckankar right now. For the sum of $130.00-$135.00
          (annual membership dues), one receives this set of loose pamphlets.
          There is not much sustance to them, especially when one considers
          the price of receiving this "education." Being deceived into
          believing that the fake mahanta and fake eck masters can show chelas
          the easy way toward spiritual growth and enlightenment is pricey in
          more ways then one. (I think I have my copies of the discourses
          somewhere so I might re-visit what is written on those illuminary
          pages! LOL!)

          Anyway, it is my belief that many individuals join guru led paths
          because it is the easy way. Many individuals who elect to be
          followers and surrender their higher self seem a bit lazy and
          irresponsible. And they fear looking at the truth, i.e. reading
          Ford's book. It certainly is much easier to believe the mahanta can
          show them the way, help them to reach God Realization. But
          unfortunately, the mahanta has no special talents or abilities;
          therefore he is doing absolutely nothing for the chelas beyond
          misleading, deceiving, impeding their spiritual growth, and of
          course eagerly taking their hard earned money! It's a perfect scam
          because so many people really want to be followers of
          some sort or another instead of standing up against the wind!

          Mish
        • prometheus_973
          Hi All, I thought that I would revisit this topic and share the path of the trinity definition om page 159 in Klemp s Eckankar LexiCon. The quote is: path
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 2, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi All,
            I thought that I would revisit this topic and share the "path of the
            trinity" definition om page 159 in Klemp's Eckankar LexiCon. The
            quote is:

            "path of the trinity. Three questions to ask oneself when in doubt
            about an action: Is it true? Is it necessary? Is it kind?"

            It's also interesting to note that neither PATH or TRINITY are
            capitalized. Klemp, it seems, relies upon the recycled and
            repackaged plagiarism of Twitchell's for the foundation of Eckankar
            while adding his own personal twist through his stupid stories.


            Mishmisha wrote:

            TS has a new post on his BB, 4/30/2006, "Weekly Posting: Response to
            Q Whan on Plagiarism and Other Matters" which goes along in part
            with this other repost (below) from the Truth Seeker Message Board,
            regarding PT's plagiarism of the Buddha quote.

            Ford Johnson writes:

            "I have maintained in Confessions that I was able to overcome the
            charges of plagiarism in my earlier reading of Lane's work because I
            too was not so concerned with the source of the statement as long as
            it represented the truth--to the degree that the writer saw and
            understood that truth. But Paul did not live up to this standard and
            that is why the old rationale of looking past the idiosyncrasies of
            Paul, lifting the works of others i.e. plagiarism, could no longer
            be overlooked.

            Through uncovering and analyzing his many techniques of distortion
            and brainwashing, it became clear that the intentions of this man
            were not noble as I had assumed. I had to search into the mysteries
            of mythomania (pathological lying) before any reconciling principle
            could be found to explain the actions of a person who appeared
            sincere and working from the highest principles on the one hand yet
            continuously engaged in lying of the most extensive, often
            unnecessaary, and obviously refutable type. So, PAUL GAVE UP HIS
            RIGHT TO OUR THANKS AND APPRECIATION FOR BRINGING THIS INFORMATION
            TO OUR ATTENTION BY USING THE TRUTH TO OPEN THE DOOR TO OUR
            CONSCIOUS ACCEPTANCE OF HIM AND HIS WRITINGS WHILE PLANTING LIES OF
            SUCH MAGINTUDE THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE QUESTIONED(my caps). This is
            the strategy of the 'great lie' about which he was most familiar and
            used extensively.

            That is why reading Paul has been equated with swimming with sharks.
            A lie can pop out at any time to bite, i.e. infect the store of
            information that has been allowed into our consciousness as truth."

            Ford further states:
            "Many now in Eckankar can not bear to read Confessions. They are
            simply not prepared to confront information that they suspect can
            dislocate their comfortable equilibrium. This is ego's way of
            protecting them now because they really can't deal with truth at
            this time. They are not willing to go through the dislocation that
            truth will foster if they seek a new equilibrium. While this is the
            inevitable process of spiritual growth, ego protects each of us
            until we are ready to handle the next dose of truth. That is why a
            love for, indeed the imperative of truth, is the most important
            ingredient in the spiritual unfoldment of the individual. Some of us
            are truth-seekers while others are, temporarily at least, 'gate
            keepers.'"


            It seems to me, that even some former eckists continue to have a
            problem with acknowledging the "imperative of truth." They cling to
            what they held so dearly in the eck teachings, maintaining that
            these were truths they would not have found elsewhere, that Paul
            gave them so much, etc. But when in fact, the truths/valuable
            lessons were stolen and Paul had just signed his name to them!
            Priscus was happy to discover that the "Is it true, is it necessary,
            is it kind" quote originated outside of eckankar. He valued it, but
            now knowing that it did not from PT or Rebazar or eckankar, he can
            let go of another org lie. He says it is wonderful to know this real
            truth!

            I realize it is hard to look at what we once thought was true but is
            clearly a lie. Our ego will rationalize to cushion that shock and/or
            denial, but the greatest freedom does come from facing truth head-
            on, acknowledging it in its entirety. There is no shame in being
            duped or deceived, because now we see. Now we know, and we should
            say as Priscus did--it's "wonderful!" And we need to share what we
            learned with others!

            Mish


            From the http://www.thetruth-seeker.com BB by Journey 4/25/2006


            The eck Quote by Buddha: "True, Necessary, Kind"

            Hello, Priscus!

            Thank you for asking where I found the quote by Buddha. I read it on
            page 349, in Julian Johnson's book, published 1939, "The Path of the
            Masters." Julian Johnson wrote: "A rule laid down by the noble
            Buddha is a most excellent one for all men to follow. He (Buddha)
            said that if you propose to speak, always ask yourself—`is it true,
            is it necessary, is it kind?'" I used the quote, attributing it to
            Buddha, thinking that Harald might respond somewhat as you have. It
            is an often used quote by Eckists, and even the eck singing
            vahanas, "The Hindu Kush Mountain Boys Plus One," wrote a song based
            on it in the mid 80's and made the quote more popular and attributed
            to Eckankar. I did enjoy hearing this group perform on more than one
            occasion. I agree that it is a fine quote; however, it has been over-
            used in Eckankar when enforcing the Law of Silence, so it is an eck
            suppression tool. It's interesting, that at one time, JPT once spoke
            of this as being the "art of silence." You may recall that Usually
            Skeptical (Nacal) showed how Klemp did not follow this rule himself
            in regards to the Postal Worker story. I have been reading Klemp's
            latest book, "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," and have noted that
            Klemp is now calling some chelas "losers," (found on page 211) so
            again it appears that Klemp continues to not apply this rule to
            himself.

            In "Confessions of a God Seeker," Ford explains how Twitchell
            plagiarized from "The Path of the Masters," so it is rather evident
            that this quote is still another example of something that Twitchell
            plagiarized from other sources in creating Eckankar. In moving away
            from the eck experience, it does help to sort out what you found
            valuable and be able to learn that those "truths" originated else
            where, and you can then believe that you might very well have found
            them yourself in other sources which attribute them rightfully to
            their originator. It is my conclusion, and a helpful one for me, to
            realize that it is not necessary to credit and thank Eckankar for
            spiritual growth, even though I had an experience there. Eckankar is
            not a necessary stepping stone on the spiritual path.

            <snip>

            Best Wishes,
            Journey
          • Elizabeth
            Found this one to be important enough to bring forward again! Though I did notice this morning, that the Truth Seeker BB is being revamped and currently under
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 2, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Found this one to be important enough to bring forward again! Though
              I did notice this morning, that the Truth Seeker BB is being
              revamped and currently under construction. So this archive from ESA
              is an important message to keep around, just incase the BB from TS
              archives will no longer be available!

              Elizabeth

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "eyesopen444"
              <eyesopen444@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi everyone,
              >
              > I read this great post on the Truth Seeker site and wanted to
              share
              > it with you.
              >
              > Have Fun.
              >
              > Kaye
              >
              > Journey
              > 4/25/2006
              >
              > The eck Quote by Buddha: " True, Necessary, Kind"
              >
              > Hello, Priscus!
              >
              > Thank you for asking where I found the quote by Buddha. I read it
              on
              > page 349, in Julian Johnson's book, published 1939, "The Path of
              the
              > Masters." Julian Johnson wrote: "A rule laid down by the noble
              > Buddha is a most excellent one for all men to follow. He (Buddha)
              > said that if you propose to speak, always ask yourself—`is it
              true,
              > is it necessary, is it kind?'" I used the quote, attributing it to
              > Buddha, thinking that Harald might respond somewhat as you have.
              It
              > is an often used quote by Eckists, and even the eck singing
              > vahanas, "The Hindu Kush Mountain Boys Plus One," wrote a song
              based
              > on it in the mid 80's and made the quote more popular and
              attributed
              > to Eckankar. I did enjoy hearing this group perform on more than
              one
              > occasion. I agree that it is a fine quote; however, it has been
              over-
              > used in Eckankar when enforcing the Law of Silence, so it is an
              eck
              > suppression tool. It's interesting, that at one time, JPT once
              spoke
              > of this as being the "art of silence." You may recall that Usually
              > Skeptical (Nacal) showed how Klemp did not follow this rule
              himself
              > in regards to the Postal Worker story. I have been reading Klemp's
              > latest book, "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," and have noted that
              > Klemp is now calling some chelas "losers," (found on page 211) so
              > again it appears that Klemp continues to not apply this rule to
              > himself.
              >
              > In "Confessions of a God Seeker," Ford explains how Twitchell
              > plagiarized from "The Path of the Masters," so it is rather
              evident
              > that this quote is still another example of something that
              Twitchell
              > plagiarized from other sources in creating Eckankar. In moving
              away
              > from the eck experience, it does help to sort out what you found
              > valuable and be able to learn that those "truths" originated else
              > where, and you can then believe that you might very well have
              found
              > them yourself in other sources which attribute them rightfully to
              > their originator. It is my conclusion, and a helpful one for me,
              to
              > realize that it is not necessary to credit and thank Eckankar for
              > spiritual growth, even though I had an experience there. Eckankar
              is
              > not a necessary stepping stone on the spiritual path.
              >
              > To Patmc: I will mention again the yahoo group, Eckankar Survivors
              > Anonymous. Usually Skeptical (Nacal), now using the pseudo
              > Prometheus on that group, along with others are keeping current
              with
              > the latest eck shenanigans—the Mystic World, Youth Letter of
              Light,
              > HK's talks and latest writings, etc. The posts are open to the
              > public for reading, both current and archived messages. One does
              not
              > have to join to access the posts, and a non member can post and/or
              > ask questions; however, non member posters are moderated which
              seems
              > fair enough. Also, the yahoo group Spiritual Survivor is moderated
              > by Ed Kusi. It is a private site that is delving into some
              > interesting spiritual discussions. To access the posts there, one
              > must sign on as a member.
              >
              > Here's the links:
              >
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
              >
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spiritualsurvivor
              > Also, there are some groups in German:
              >
              > A newsgroup for Ex-Eckists and critical Eckists in German
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Eck-ist-ECK
              >
              > German copy of ESA: EckankarFragenAnonym (EFA)
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EckankarFragenAnonym
              >
              > Critical Eckankar info in German-contains German translation of
              > David Lane
              > http://www.eckist.info
              >
              > It isn't necessary to always agree with all views, but along with
              > participating on TS/HCS, a Truth Seeker can find a variety of
              > information and ideas that help a former Eckist to understand more
              > fully his/her eck experience. It is good to have a variety of
              > resources in order to maintain balance and more easily find
              answers
              > to questions and concerns.
              >
              > Best Wishes,
              > Journey
              >
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