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Re: Eckankar: 4/2006 Letter of Light - Q & A #3

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Liz, I enjoyed reading your perspective and it got me to thinking about these other angles of HK s message. And, I never saw a Gay connection before. The
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 30 11:08 AM
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      Hi Liz,
      I enjoyed reading your perspective and it got me to thinking about
      these other angles of HK's message. And, I never saw a "Gay"
      connection before. The Yahoo Group for Gay Eckists is now
      called "Soul Equals Soul" instead of "Souls Like Us." I knew several
      Gay Eckists while a member. It "seems" Klemp does not look upon Gays
      with the same negativity of Twitchell or Gross. However, Klemp Did
      Help to write the 1979, "A Profile Of ECKANKAR." On page 20 under
      the title of "Mental and Emotional Situations" is the following:
      "1. Homosexuality: Personality traits and sexual habits are not
      related to spiritual unfoldment and are not regulated by the ECK
      teachings in any manner. This situation will drop away as one
      unfolds spiritually." However, if gender drops away at the Soul
      Plane - Why then are there Male and Female Eck Masters in the God
      Worlds of Eck! : )

      [Q]: "With each physical reincarnation, do the higher bodies (e.g.,
      astral, causal, mental) die, change, or transform? Can these bodies
      change appearance at will? Also, in what form does gender exist in
      the higher worlds, and at what point does gender end?"

      LIZ: I am only going to comment on what immediately came to mind
      when reading the above question. (I think Prometheus did a great job
      with his comments) Did anyone else get the impression that HK
      completely avoided the *same sex* relationship part of this
      question? Did HK edit this question to avoid the homosexual slant
      that was so obvious to me?

      ***Me: I don't know if HK did edit the question - he does do edits
      to fit his agenda and to avoid certain issues so it is very likely!

      [HK]: "Gender is all-important on the Astral Plane, the area of
      emotions and passionate feelings. BUT it becomes increasingly less
      important on the higher planes."

      LIZ: Gender is important on the Physical too.

      ***Me: It's interesting that Klemp uses "BUT" to begin his sentence
      about gender being "less important on the higher planes." In the
      12/2005 H.I. Letter, pg.2, HK states, "When someone says but, it's a
      nail in the coffin of invention. A constant stream of contradictions
      shuts off creativity and a gift that may be offered. And when
      someone says but he's stopped listening. So be aware when using if.
      And especially when using but, because it's limiting." This proves
      that Klemp, too, is a liar and a manipulator so why believe anything
      he has to say! On what level of consciousness does a liar reside?!

      [HK]: "And when does gender end? It ends when Soul reaches the Soul
      Plane, first of the spiritual worlds. There, each Soul is whole.
      The lower worlds of distinctions and differences have vanished."

      LIZ: I can not speak for others, but for myself as soul, I
      identified with myself *soul* in the higher worlds as female! I am
      wondering if my thoughts on this is way off in left field... My view
      of the different levels of the godworlds changed when I read the
      Michael Newton books, "Journey of Souls, and Destiny of Souls". As
      too, my views on having several bodies e.g., astral, causal, mental
      etc... changed. These different bodies to me have been tied to the
      initiation levels, and working off karma. I no longer think of
      myself as having all these different bodies, needing to balance out
      or work through the different levels to reach self or god
      realization. Either you are here, or you are there..... LOL I don't
      have a clue how I should be wording what I am thinking!

      ***Me: Here's a quote from the Eckankar LexiCon page 209: "time
      twins theory of ECK. When Soul, discovers Itself as the ECK, and by
      becoming the ECK, It has attained the symbol of Its Soul mate; the
      blending of the masculine and feminine forces within the individual
      into one, the oneness with Itself." Of course, Plato's corruption of
      this is the Split-Apart or Soul-Mate theory. I discovered that I was
      Spirit (eck) and It was Me early on. I don't need a pseudo master
      like Klemp to limit Me, or to tell Me anything! And, do Eckists
      really believe this Positive (male) and Negative (female) atom
      theory! Catch-22 can change that at any moment! LOL!

      [HK]: "Your questions show a deep interest in the miracle of the
      ECK's, Holy Spirit's, creation. The Mahanta, the Inner Master, will
      reveal more to you about the makeup of creation when you are
      spiritually ready to receive it."

      LIZ: What a condesending comment! "The Mahanta, the Inner Master,
      will reveal more to you about the makeup of creation when you are
      spiritually ready to receive it." At what initiation level or years
      of paid up membership dues, how much money will they be out before
      the great Mythical Mahanta of the ENTIRE UNIVERSE reveal this super
      secret makeup? LOL In other words, as long as these souls are gay,
      they won't be spiritually ready!!!

      ***Me: Okay let's see if I've got it right. Self-Realization is
      established on the 5th or Soul Plane and gender identity is lost.
      Eckists who are 6ths and 7ths initiates have reached Spiritual
      Realization, and 8ths to 12ths are God-Realized, and 13ths and
      higher are at AKSHAR Realization (A Profile Of ECKANKAR, pg.28, The
      God Worlds of ECK...).

      Well, it's all a nice little story - if only the lies and
      distortions were kept more consistant! Of course, this is also why
      the older Eck material is being destroyed and Not reprinted. Now, if
      Klemp could just erase those recent unloving and intolerant "loser"
      comments! <smile>

      Yes, it's very puzzeling that gender idenity is left behind at the
      Soul Plane and yet Eckankar has Male and Female Eck Masters AND that
      the LEM (AND) Mahanta can only be Male!

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