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  • Freefrom
    I just felt the urge to say something about most of you guys. Even though I suspect that there may be some differences in our perspective etc. I still feel a
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 10, 2006
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      I just felt the urge to say something about most of you guys. Even
      though I suspect that there may be some differences in our perspective
      etc. I still feel a sense of belonging and appreciate your desire to
      do some good. YOu are relentless and I admire that. I like you!

      Freefrom ; )
    • ctecvie
      Hello Freefrom, I like you, too! :-) Ingrid ... perspective
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 11, 2006
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        Hello Freefrom,

        I like you, too! :-)
        Ingrid

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
        <eckchains@...> wrote:
        >
        > I just felt the urge to say something about most of you guys. Even
        > though I suspect that there may be some differences in our
        perspective
        > etc. I still feel a sense of belonging and appreciate your desire to
        > do some good. YOu are relentless and I admire that. I like you!
        >
        > Freefrom ; )
        >
      • tee green
        Hi Prometheus and Everyone, Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I m not at all surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all, he and
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 1, 2007
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          Hi Prometheus and Everyone,

               Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I'm not at all surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all, he and many others have so much invested in it. I admit, when I was a member, I did enjoy his work. I think the tone of the writer can affect the reader deeply if the writer understands this and has the talent to achieve it.
               Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression I had of PW while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured him in a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge and taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
          I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony letters in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This is just further proof to me of what this organization started out as and what it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had this effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to me. I began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I found in other religions.
               If I may, I would like to recommend a website- Beyond Belief 2006- great video clips in which the scientific community reviews religious beliefs and questions the validity of them and the effect it has on us.

          http://beyondbelief2006.org/

          Happy Friday!

          Kaye


          Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
          Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
        • mishmisha9
          Hi, Kaye & All! Kaye what you wrote states it all pretty much in a nutshell: Your posts on Letters to Gail reminded me of the impression I had of PT while
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 3, 2007
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            Hi, Kaye & All!

            Kaye what you wrote states it all pretty much in a nutshell:
            "Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression I had
            of PT while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured him in
            a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge and
            taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
            romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
            I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony letters
            in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This is just
            further proof to me of what this organization started out as and what
            it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had this
            effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to me. I
            began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I found
            in other religions."

            But there is no need to feel dumb for falling for such a scam.
            Unfortunately, the scam continues for so many; thus, what is
            particularly sad are the many who continue to cling to this fake,
            deceptive, made-up religion. PT is still revered while HK is
            tolerated. Someone stated to me today that some people need religion
            for one reason or another. They need to be told what is the right way
            to go morally and they also feel safer even though manipulated.
            Because of this need, it opens the door for such conmen like PT and
            HK. To me, it seems that agreeing to follow such conmen is the lazy
            man's path to enlightenment. The catch 22 is that the path leads
            nowhere. The followers are achieving nothing when being so obviously
            tricked. Being trained to use one's imagination in order to connect
            with fake masters on the pretense of becoming spiritually enlightened
            and God Realized is not connecting at all! Why would God or Spirit
            view any of us as being less capable of speaking/connecting to Him
            directly than someone like Klemp? Think about it--what makes Klemp so
            special? Because he says so??? NOT!!

            Here's something to consider as well. How do eckists determine that
            they are above the fray and more spiritually advanced than non-
            eckists? They are constantly judging others and criticizing. They are
            also very smug in thinking that they are the chosen ones in this
            lifetime. If someone has an issue with them, say, in the work place,
            the eckist will never look for fault in himself, but rather he will
            say that the other is just not as advanced a Soul. There is just so
            much arrogance that grows into one's personality when believing all
            the nonsense of the eckankar teachings--as eckists learn this
            arrogance from Klemp's writings and talks in particular. There is no
            such thing as a humble true blue eckist--it is quite contradictory.
            One cannot be a true blue eckist and remain humble. It is a rather
            amusing predictament for eckists if they really look at themselves
            individually--look at what is festering truly on the Inner.

            Still, on another note, I am looking forward to seeing what "new"
            changes will be taking place within the eckankar org by the time of
            the next EWWS! I still predict that Joan will be revealed as a
            rightful female eck master and thus she will be able to help HK
            remain on his throne! HK's book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" is a
            cunning ploy to pave the way for Joan's taking over some of the power
            in the eck org. Such a fairy tale spin is presently under contruction
            and behind the curtains in Chanhassen! HK believes he can pull this
            off, because he knows how gullible his followers are! LOL!

            Mish

            ************************************************
            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, tee green
            <xekweed@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Prometheus and Everyone,
            >
            > Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I'm not at all
            surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all, he
            and many others have so much invested in it. I admit, when I was a
            member, I did enjoy his work. I think the tone of the writer can
            affect the reader deeply if the writer understands this and has the
            talent to achieve it.
            > Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression
            I had of PW while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured
            him in a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge
            and taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
            romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
            > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
            letters in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This
            is just further proof to me of what this organization started out as
            and what it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had
            this effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to
            me. I began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I
            found in other religions.
            > If I may, I would like to recommend a website- Beyond Belief
            2006- great video clips in which the scientific community reviews
            religious beliefs and questions the validity of them and the effect
            it has on us.
            >
            > http://beyondbelief2006.org/
            >
            > Happy Friday!
            >
            > Kaye
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
            vehicles.
            > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hi Mish and All, I see where many Eckists believe in their religion due to their imagined Eck/master experiences. I ve had many things happen to me that I
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 7, 2007
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              Hi Mish and All,
              I see where many Eckists believe in their
              religion due to their imagined "Eck/master
              experiences." I've had many things happen
              to me that I could attribute to the "Mahanta"
              if I were still an Eckist looking for a story
              to share.

              For example: While on a road trip recently I
              was thinking how nice it would be to have a
              Starbucks skinny orange mocha with no whip
              cream. Well, I noticed that I should get gas
              and took the next exit. In order to get back
              on the freeway I had to drive down a long winding
              road. This was very unusual and I wondered where
              it was taking me. Well guess what?! It took me
              to a Starbucks! After getting my Grande skinny
              orange mocha with froth (and an extra shot),
              I saw where the road took me back to the Interstate.
              Now was this the Mahanta giving me a nudge? Nope!
              It was me operating as Soul and listening to Spirit
              without the phoney Mahanta taking credit for it.

              There are hundreds of examples of these same kind
              of events that we all have. And, No Mahanta is Needed
              for any of them!

              If you have any to share please do!

              Prometheus



              mish wrote:
              >
              > Hi, Kaye & All!
              >
              > Kaye what you wrote states it all pretty much in a nutshell:
              > "Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression I
              had
              > of PT while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured him
              in
              > a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge and
              > taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
              > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
              > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
              letters
              > in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This is
              just
              > further proof to me of what this organization started out as and
              what
              > it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had this
              > effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to me.
              I
              > began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I
              found
              > in other religions."
              >
              > But there is no need to feel dumb for falling for such a scam.
              > Unfortunately, the scam continues for so many; thus, what is
              > particularly sad are the many who continue to cling to this fake,
              > deceptive, made-up religion. PT is still revered while HK is
              > tolerated. Someone stated to me today that some people need
              religion
              > for one reason or another. They need to be told what is the right
              way
              > to go morally and they also feel safer even though manipulated.
              > Because of this need, it opens the door for such conmen like PT
              and
              > HK. To me, it seems that agreeing to follow such conmen is the
              lazy
              > man's path to enlightenment. The catch 22 is that the path leads
              > nowhere. The followers are achieving nothing when being so
              obviously
              > tricked. Being trained to use one's imagination in order to
              connect
              > with fake masters on the pretense of becoming spiritually
              enlightened
              > and God Realized is not connecting at all! Why would God or Spirit
              > view any of us as being less capable of speaking/connecting to Him
              > directly than someone like Klemp? Think about it--what makes Klemp
              so
              > special? Because he says so??? NOT!!
              >
              > Here's something to consider as well. How do eckists determine
              that
              > they are above the fray and more spiritually advanced than non-
              > eckists? They are constantly judging others and criticizing. They
              are
              > also very smug in thinking that they are the chosen ones in this
              > lifetime. If someone has an issue with them, say, in the work
              place,
              > the eckist will never look for fault in himself, but rather he
              will
              > say that the other is just not as advanced a Soul. There is just
              so
              > much arrogance that grows into one's personality when believing
              all
              > the nonsense of the eckankar teachings--as eckists learn this
              > arrogance from Klemp's writings and talks in particular. There is
              no
              > such thing as a humble true blue eckist--it is quite
              contradictory.
              > One cannot be a true blue eckist and remain humble. It is a rather
              > amusing predictament for eckists if they really look at themselves
              > individually--look at what is festering truly on the Inner.
              >
              > Still, on another note, I am looking forward to seeing what "new"
              > changes will be taking place within the eckankar org by the time
              of
              > the next EWWS! I still predict that Joan will be revealed as a
              > rightful female eck master and thus she will be able to help HK
              > remain on his throne! HK's book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" is a
              > cunning ploy to pave the way for Joan's taking over some of the
              power
              > in the eck org. Such a fairy tale spin is presently under
              contruction
              > and behind the curtains in Chanhassen! HK believes he can pull
              this
              > off, because he knows how gullible his followers are! LOL!
              >
              > Mish
              >
              > ************************************************
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, tee green
              > <xekweed@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Prometheus and Everyone,
              > >
              > > Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I'm not at all
              > surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all,
              he
              > and many others have so much invested in it. I admit, when I was a
              > member, I did enjoy his work. I think the tone of the writer can
              > affect the reader deeply if the writer understands this and has
              the
              > talent to achieve it.
              > > Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the
              impression
              > I had of PW while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I
              pictured
              > him in a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden
              knowledge
              > and taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
              > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
              > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
              > letters in his apartment with her right there proofreading them.
              This
              > is just further proof to me of what this organization started out
              as
              > and what it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never
              had
              > this effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to
              > me. I began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that
              I
              > found in other religions.
              > > If I may, I would like to recommend a website- Beyond
              Belief
              > 2006- great video clips in which the scientific community reviews
              > religious beliefs and questions the validity of them and the
              effect
              > it has on us.
              > >
              > > http://beyondbelief2006.org/
              > >
              > > Happy Friday!
              > >
              > > Kaye
              > >
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
              > vehicles.
              > > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
              > >
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello All, Here s another real life experience that shows ECKists No Middleman Mahanta Is Needed. While traveling on a long road trip to Atlanta I decided to
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 13, 2007
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                Hello All,
                Here's another real life experience that
                shows ECKists No Middleman Mahanta Is
                Needed.

                While traveling on a long road trip to
                Atlanta I decided to stop overnight in
                Lexington, Kentucky. That night while
                channel surfing I saw an ECK Video
                on the community access station. The
                topic of Klemp's 2005 talk was "Let It Be."

                Well, HK's talk was very amusing to hear,
                as well as, to see! Klemp seemed very serious,
                and talked extremely slow and deliberately
                while glancing at his note cards.

                Klemp said that Jesus and Buddha worked with
                the Mahanta, but ECKists were ready for the
                next step. He then mentioned the Beatles song
                of "Let It Be" by Paul McCartney and read
                some of the lyrics. I think he read: Mother
                Mary comes to me speaking words of wisdom,
                let it be. Klemp went on to say that ECKists
                should not interfere with the beliefs of others
                and to LET IT BE. He then finally smiled and
                waved as he ended the talk.

                So, did McCartney's Mother, Mary, come to
                Klemp and tell him to Let It Be? Or, is Klemp
                talking to Cheryl Grumpyman and other nasty
                and pushy ECK Vahanas to Let It Be?

                Anyway, after mocking the glorious and all
                powerful Mahanta and having a good laugh
                I changed the channel.

                Now, here's the experience that proves that there
                is No Need for a Mahanta and that mocking him
                is no big deal… because he's a FRAUD!

                The next day I got on the road and was driving
                for awhile when I was "led" to take a certain exit
                to get gas. While inside another motorist from
                Ontario, at the gas pump in front of my auto, told
                me that my left front tire was about to blow! It was
                worn on the inside and down to the steel belt. The
                other front tire was worn badly too. I could have
                had a blow out doing 80 m.p.h.! (Yes, I speed).

                BTW- He wasn't an ECK Master... I would have done
                the same thing.

                Anyway, I was close to a dealership and drove there
                very cautiously. They did a four wheel alignment (the
                toe-in adjustment was off front and rear) and changed
                all four of my tires. The rest of the trip to and in Atlanta
                worked out even better! The two hour delay was perfect
                timing!

                So, you see… We Don't Need No Stinkin' Mahanta!

                Prometheus




                prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hi Mish and All,
                > I see where many Eckists believe in their
                > religion due to their imagined "Eck/master
                > experiences." I've had many things happen
                > to me that I could attribute to the "Mahanta"
                > if I were still an Eckist looking for a story
                > to share.
                >
                > For example: While on a road trip recently I
                > was thinking how nice it would be to have a
                > Starbucks skinny orange mocha with no whip
                > cream. Well, I noticed that I should get gas
                > and took the next exit. In order to get back
                > on the freeway I had to drive down a long winding
                > road. This was very unusual and I wondered where
                > it was taking me. Well guess what?! It took me
                > to a Starbucks! After getting my Grande skinny
                > orange mocha with froth (and an extra shot),
                > I saw where the road took me back to the Interstate.
                > Now was this the Mahanta giving me a nudge? Nope!
                > It was me operating as Soul and listening to Spirit
                > without the phoney Mahanta taking credit for it.
                >
                > There are hundreds of examples of these same kind
                > of events that we all have. And, No Mahanta is Needed
                > for any of them!
                >
                > If you have any to share please do!
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                >
                > mish wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi, Kaye & All!
                > >
                > > Kaye what you wrote states it all pretty much in a nutshell:
                > > "Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression I
                > had
                > > of PT while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured him
                > in
                > > a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge and
                > > taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
                > > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
                > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
                > letters
                > > in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This is
                > just
                > > further proof to me of what this organization started out as and
                > what
                > > it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had this
                > > effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to me.
                > I
                > > began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I
                > found
                > > in other religions."
                > >
                > > But there is no need to feel dumb for falling for such a scam.
                > > Unfortunately, the scam continues for so many; thus, what is
                > > particularly sad are the many who continue to cling to this fake,
                > > deceptive, made-up religion. PT is still revered while HK is
                > > tolerated. Someone stated to me today that some people need
                > religion
                > > for one reason or another. They need to be told what is the right
                > way
                > > to go morally and they also feel safer even though manipulated.
                > > Because of this need, it opens the door for such conmen like PT
                > and
                > > HK. To me, it seems that agreeing to follow such conmen is the
                > lazy
                > > man's path to enlightenment. The catch 22 is that the path leads
                > > nowhere. The followers are achieving nothing when being so
                > obviously
                > > tricked. Being trained to use one's imagination in order to
                > connect
                > > with fake masters on the pretense of becoming spiritually
                > enlightened
                > > and God Realized is not connecting at all! Why would God or Spirit
                > > view any of us as being less capable of speaking/connecting to Him
                > > directly than someone like Klemp? Think about it--what makes Klemp
                > so
                > > special? Because he says so??? NOT!!
                > >
                > > Here's something to consider as well. How do eckists determine
                > that
                > > they are above the fray and more spiritually advanced than non-
                > > eckists? They are constantly judging others and criticizing. They
                > are
                > > also very smug in thinking that they are the chosen ones in this
                > > lifetime. If someone has an issue with them, say, in the work
                > place,
                > > the eckist will never look for fault in himself, but rather he
                > will
                > > say that the other is just not as advanced a Soul. There is just
                > so
                > > much arrogance that grows into one's personality when believing
                > all
                > > the nonsense of the eckankar teachings--as eckists learn this
                > > arrogance from Klemp's writings and talks in particular. There is
                > no
                > > such thing as a humble true blue eckist--it is quite
                > contradictory.
                > > One cannot be a true blue eckist and remain humble. It is a rather
                > > amusing predictament for eckists if they really look at themselves
                > > individually--look at what is festering truly on the Inner.
                > >
                > > Still, on another note, I am looking forward to seeing what "new"
                > > changes will be taking place within the eckankar org by the time
                > of
                > > the next EWWS! I still predict that Joan will be revealed as a
                > > rightful female eck master and thus she will be able to help HK
                > > remain on his throne! HK's book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" is a
                > > cunning ploy to pave the way for Joan's taking over some of the
                > power
                > > in the eck org. Such a fairy tale spin is presently under
                > contruction
                > > and behind the curtains in Chanhassen! HK believes he can pull
                > this
                > > off, because he knows how gullible his followers are! LOL!
                > >
                > > Mish
                > >
                > > ************************************************
                > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, tee green
                > > <xekweed@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi Prometheus and Everyone,
                > > >
                > > > Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I'm not at all
                > > surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all,
                > he
                > > and many others have so much invested in it. I admit, when I was a
                > > member, I did enjoy his work. I think the tone of the writer can
                > > affect the reader deeply if the writer understands this and has
                > the
                > > talent to achieve it.
                > > > Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the
                > impression
                > > I had of PW while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I
                > pictured
                > > him in a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden
                > knowledge
                > > and taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
                > > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
                > > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
                > > letters in his apartment with her right there proofreading them.
                > This
                > > is just further proof to me of what this organization started out
                > as
                > > and what it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never
                > had
                > > this effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to
                > > me. I began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that
                > I
                > > found in other religions.
                > > > If I may, I would like to recommend a website- Beyond
                > Belief
                > > 2006- great video clips in which the scientific community reviews
                > > religious beliefs and questions the validity of them and the
                > effect
                > > it has on us.
                > > >
                > > > http://beyondbelief2006.org/
                > > >
                > > > Happy Friday!
                > > >
                > > > Kaye
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ---------------------------------
                > > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
                > > vehicles.
                > > > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • mishmisha9
                LOOKS LIKE HK HAS BEEN READING FORD JOHNSON S BBs! LOL! : ) TOO FUNNY! Hi, Prometheus and All! Nice story, Prometheus! It definitely demonstrates that there is
                Message 7 of 8 , Jun 15, 2007
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                  LOOKS LIKE HK HAS BEEN READING FORD JOHNSON'S BBs!
                  LOL! : ) TOO FUNNY!

                  Hi, Prometheus and All!

                  Nice story, Prometheus! It definitely demonstrates
                  that there is no need for a fake guru like Klemp or
                  some other pretender in order to connect with or
                  have spiritual experiences! The only thing that Klemp
                  does for a chela is take his/her money, time and hope!

                  Interesting, too, is Klemp's topic "Let It Be" for this
                  talk you heard. I posted a message about Paul
                  McCarty's "Let It Be" song on Ford Johnson's site back
                  in 2004. In my message there, I explained how McCarty
                  came to write this song. It came to him in a dream in
                  which he envisioned his long deceased mother coming
                  to him to quiet his worries and loneliness at the time.
                  It is a beautiful spiritual story behind that song.

                  It appears that Klemp has been a reader of Ford's BBs! LOL!
                  And yet, he has problems with EMR--how does he manage his
                  (fake) disease and still be able to read stuff on the Internet???
                  LOL! I call it a fake disease as I see it as a ploy to keep
                  chelas off the Internet where they just might discover the
                  truth about eckankar being a fraud! I've known a few chelas
                  who coincidentally came down with this illness after HK
                  announced his problems! : )

                  Anyway, "Let It Be" has a wonderful message for trusting
                  that one's troubles will be okay if one will "let it be."
                  Interesting, though, how Klemp puts his spin on it, telling chelas
                  to let people be. I bet he'd like us to "let it be" too--just
                  walk away quietly from eckankar, and not share the truths about
                  all the deception and lies! The Internet must be very disturbing
                  to him at times! LOL!

                  Mish

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                  "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello All,
                  > Here's another real life experience that
                  > shows ECKists No Middleman Mahanta Is
                  > Needed.
                  >
                  > While traveling on a long road trip to
                  > Atlanta I decided to stop overnight in
                  > Lexington, Kentucky. That night while
                  > channel surfing I saw an ECK Video
                  > on the community access station. The
                  > topic of Klemp's 2005 talk was "Let It Be."
                  >
                  > Well, HK's talk was very amusing to hear,
                  > as well as, to see! Klemp seemed very serious,
                  > and talked extremely slow and deliberately
                  > while glancing at his note cards.
                  >
                  > Klemp said that Jesus and Buddha worked with
                  > the Mahanta, but ECKists were ready for the
                  > next step. He then mentioned the Beatles song
                  > of "Let It Be" by Paul McCartney and read
                  > some of the lyrics. I think he read: Mother
                  > Mary comes to me speaking words of wisdom,
                  > let it be. Klemp went on to say that ECKists
                  > should not interfere with the beliefs of others
                  > and to LET IT BE. He then finally smiled and
                  > waved as he ended the talk.
                  >
                  > So, did McCartney's Mother, Mary, come to
                  > Klemp and tell him to Let It Be? Or, is Klemp
                  > talking to Cheryl Grumpyman and other nasty
                  > and pushy ECK Vahanas to Let It Be?
                  >
                  > Anyway, after mocking the glorious and all
                  > powerful Mahanta and having a good laugh
                  > I changed the channel.
                  >
                  > Now, here's the experience that proves that there
                  > is No Need for a Mahanta and that mocking him
                  > is no big deal… because he's a FRAUD!
                  >
                  > The next day I got on the road and was driving
                  > for awhile when I was "led" to take a certain exit
                  > to get gas. While inside another motorist from
                  > Ontario, at the gas pump in front of my auto, told
                  > me that my left front tire was about to blow! It was
                  > worn on the inside and down to the steel belt. The
                  > other front tire was worn badly too. I could have
                  > had a blow out doing 80 m.p.h.! (Yes, I speed).
                  >
                  > BTW- He wasn't an ECK Master... I would have done
                  > the same thing.
                  >
                  > Anyway, I was close to a dealership and drove there
                  > very cautiously. They did a four wheel alignment (the
                  > toe-in adjustment was off front and rear) and changed
                  > all four of my tires. The rest of the trip to and in Atlanta
                  > worked out even better! The two hour delay was perfect
                  > timing!
                  >
                  > So, you see… We Don't Need No Stinkin' Mahanta!
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Mish and All,
                  > > I see where many Eckists believe in their
                  > > religion due to their imagined "Eck/master
                  > > experiences." I've had many things happen
                  > > to me that I could attribute to the "Mahanta"
                  > > if I were still an Eckist looking for a story
                  > > to share.
                  > >
                  > > For example: While on a road trip recently I
                  > > was thinking how nice it would be to have a
                  > > Starbucks skinny orange mocha with no whip
                  > > cream. Well, I noticed that I should get gas
                  > > and took the next exit. In order to get back
                  > > on the freeway I had to drive down a long winding
                  > > road. This was very unusual and I wondered where
                  > > it was taking me. Well guess what?! It took me
                  > > to a Starbucks! After getting my Grande skinny
                  > > orange mocha with froth (and an extra shot),
                  > > I saw where the road took me back to the Interstate.
                  > > Now was this the Mahanta giving me a nudge? Nope!
                  > > It was me operating as Soul and listening to Spirit
                  > > without the phoney Mahanta taking credit for it.
                  > >
                  > > There are hundreds of examples of these same kind
                  > > of events that we all have. And, No Mahanta is Needed
                  > > for any of them!
                  > >
                  > > If you have any to share please do!
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > mish wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi, Kaye & All!
                  > > >
                  > > > Kaye what you wrote states it all pretty much in a nutshell:
                  > > > "Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression I
                  > > had
                  > > > of PT while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured him
                  > > in
                  > > > a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge and
                  > > > taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
                  > > > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
                  > > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
                  > > letters
                  > > > in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This is
                  > > just
                  > > > further proof to me of what this organization started out as and
                  > > what
                  > > > it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had this
                  > > > effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to me.
                  > > I
                  > > > began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I
                  > > found
                  > > > in other religions."
                  > > >
                  > > > But there is no need to feel dumb for falling for such a scam.
                  > > > Unfortunately, the scam continues for so many; thus, what is
                  > > > particularly sad are the many who continue to cling to this fake,
                  > > > deceptive, made-up religion. PT is still revered while HK is
                  > > > tolerated. Someone stated to me today that some people need
                  > > religion
                  > > > for one reason or another. They need to be told what is the right
                  > > way
                  > > > to go morally and they also feel safer even though manipulated.
                  > > > Because of this need, it opens the door for such conmen like PT
                  > > and
                  > > > HK. To me, it seems that agreeing to follow such conmen is the
                  > > lazy
                  > > > man's path to enlightenment. The catch 22 is that the path leads
                  > > > nowhere. The followers are achieving nothing when being so
                  > > obviously
                  > > > tricked. Being trained to use one's imagination in order to
                  > > connect
                  > > > with fake masters on the pretense of becoming spiritually
                  > > enlightened
                  > > > and God Realized is not connecting at all! Why would God or Spirit
                  > > > view any of us as being less capable of speaking/connecting to Him
                  > > > directly than someone like Klemp? Think about it--what makes Klemp
                  > > so
                  > > > special? Because he says so??? NOT!!
                  > > >
                  > > > Here's something to consider as well. How do eckists determine
                  > > that
                  > > > they are above the fray and more spiritually advanced than non-
                  > > > eckists? They are constantly judging others and criticizing. They
                  > > are
                  > > > also very smug in thinking that they are the chosen ones in this
                  > > > lifetime. If someone has an issue with them, say, in the work
                  > > place,
                  > > > the eckist will never look for fault in himself, but rather he
                  > > will
                  > > > say that the other is just not as advanced a Soul. There is just
                  > > so
                  > > > much arrogance that grows into one's personality when believing
                  > > all
                  > > > the nonsense of the eckankar teachings--as eckists learn this
                  > > > arrogance from Klemp's writings and talks in particular. There is
                  > > no
                  > > > such thing as a humble true blue eckist--it is quite
                  > > contradictory.
                  > > > One cannot be a true blue eckist and remain humble. It is a rather
                  > > > amusing predictament for eckists if they really look at themselves
                  > > > individually--look at what is festering truly on the Inner.
                  > > >
                  > > > Still, on another note, I am looking forward to seeing what "new"
                  > > > changes will be taking place within the eckankar org by the time
                  > > of
                  > > > the next EWWS! I still predict that Joan will be revealed as a
                  > > > rightful female eck master and thus she will be able to help HK
                  > > > remain on his throne! HK's book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" is a
                  > > > cunning ploy to pave the way for Joan's taking over some of the
                  > > power
                  > > > in the eck org. Such a fairy tale spin is presently under
                  > > contruction
                  > > > and behind the curtains in Chanhassen! HK believes he can pull
                  > > this
                  > > > off, because he knows how gullible his followers are! LOL!
                  > > >
                  > > > Mish
                  > > >
                  > > > ************************************************
                  > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, tee green
                  > > > <xekweed@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi Prometheus and Everyone,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I'm not at all
                  > > > surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all,
                  > > he
                  > > > and many others have so much invested in it. I admit, when I was a
                  > > > member, I did enjoy his work. I think the tone of the writer can
                  > > > affect the reader deeply if the writer understands this and has
                  > > the
                  > > > talent to achieve it.
                  > > > > Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the
                  > > impression
                  > > > I had of PW while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I
                  > > pictured
                  > > > him in a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden
                  > > knowledge
                  > > > and taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
                  > > > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
                  > > > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
                  > > > letters in his apartment with her right there proofreading them.
                  > > This
                  > > > is just further proof to me of what this organization started out
                  > > as
                  > > > and what it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never
                  > > had
                  > > > this effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to
                  > > > me. I began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that
                  > > I
                  > > > found in other religions.
                  > > > > If I may, I would like to recommend a website- Beyond
                  > > Belief
                  > > > 2006- great video clips in which the scientific community reviews
                  > > > religious beliefs and questions the validity of them and the
                  > > effect
                  > > > it has on us.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://beyondbelief2006.org/
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Happy Friday!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Kaye
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ---------------------------------
                  > > > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
                  > > > vehicles.
                  > > > > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • prometheus_973
                  Hi Mish, Excellent post! Yes, ECKists have trouble connecting the dots because it is too easy to just believe, assume, and trust without questioning anything
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jun 17, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Mish,
                    Excellent post! Yes, ECKists have trouble connecting
                    the dots because it is too easy to just believe, assume,
                    and trust without questioning anything ever again! It
                    is human nature to give leaders you have placed upon a
                    pedestal the benefit of the doubt and to think they would
                    never misrepresent themselves or what they are selling
                    to you (religion). However, that's just the point... they do!

                    Religions are selling something and it's Not Free! And,
                    ECKANKAR is a Religion and a "Non-profit" Corporation.
                    Also, like all other religions there are flaws, internal
                    politics, true/partial believers, heretics, punishment/reward,
                    distortions, spoken & unspoken rules, myth, dogma, and deceit.

                    Eckankar is not above any of this... it's just not acceptable
                    to discuss it and still be elligible by one's RESA for those
                    sought after Higher Initiations/Positions that equate with
                    the Illusion of what these are to bring or result in...
                    Higher Consciousness.


                    Prometheus



                    mish wrote:

                    > >
                    > > LOOKS LIKE HK HAS BEEN READING FORD JOHNSON'S BBs!
                    > > LOL! : ) TOO FUNNY!
                    > >
                    > > Hi, Prometheus and All!
                    > >
                    > > Nice story, Prometheus! It definitely demonstrates
                    > > that there is no need for a fake guru like Klemp or
                    > > some other pretender in order to connect with or
                    > > have spiritual experiences! The only thing that Klemp
                    > > does for a chela is take his/her money, time and hope!
                    > >
                    > > Interesting, too, is Klemp's topic "Let It Be" for this
                    > > talk you heard. I posted a message about Paul
                    > > McCarty's "Let It Be" song on Ford Johnson's site back
                    > > in 2004. In my message there, I explained how McCarty
                    > > came to write this song. It came to him in a dream in
                    > > which he envisioned his long deceased mother coming
                    > > to him to quiet his worries and loneliness at the time.
                    > > It is a beautiful spiritual story behind that song.
                    > >
                    > > It appears that Klemp has been a reader of Ford's BBs! LOL!
                    > > And yet, he has problems with EMR--how does he manage his
                    > > (fake) disease and still be able to read stuff on the Internet???
                    > > LOL! I call it a fake disease as I see it as a ploy to keep
                    > > chelas off the Internet where they just might discover the
                    > > truth about eckankar being a fraud! I've known a few chelas
                    > > who coincidentally came down with this illness after HK
                    > > announced his problems! : )
                    > >
                    > > Anyway, "Let It Be" has a wonderful message for trusting
                    > > that one's troubles will be okay if one will "let it be."
                    > > Interesting, though, how Klemp puts his spin on it, telling chelas
                    > > to let people be. I bet he'd like us to "let it be" too--just
                    > > walk away quietly from eckankar, and not share the truths about
                    > > all the deception and lies! The Internet must be very disturbing
                    > > to him at times! LOL!
                    > >
                    > > Mish
                    > >
                    > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello All,
                    > > > Here's another real life experience that
                    > > > shows ECKists No Middleman Mahanta Is
                    > > > Needed.
                    > > >
                    > > > While traveling on a long road trip to
                    > > > Atlanta I decided to stop overnight in
                    > > > Lexington, Kentucky. That night while
                    > > > channel surfing I saw an ECK Video
                    > > > on the community access station. The
                    > > > topic of Klemp's 2005 talk was "Let It Be."
                    > > >
                    > > > Well, HK's talk was very amusing to hear,
                    > > > as well as, to see! Klemp seemed very serious,
                    > > > and talked extremely slow and deliberately
                    > > > while glancing at his note cards.
                    > > >
                    > > > Klemp said that Jesus and Buddha worked with
                    > > > the Mahanta, but ECKists were ready for the
                    > > > next step. He then mentioned the Beatles song
                    > > > of "Let It Be" by Paul McCartney and read
                    > > > some of the lyrics. I think he read: Mother
                    > > > Mary comes to me speaking words of wisdom,
                    > > > let it be. Klemp went on to say that ECKists
                    > > > should not interfere with the beliefs of others
                    > > > and to LET IT BE. He then finally smiled and
                    > > > waved as he ended the talk.
                    > > >
                    > > > So, did McCartney's Mother, Mary, come to
                    > > > Klemp and tell him to Let It Be? Or, is Klemp
                    > > > talking to Cheryl Grumpyman and other nasty
                    > > > and pushy ECK Vahanas to Let It Be?
                    > > >
                    > > > Anyway, after mocking the glorious and all
                    > > > powerful Mahanta and having a good laugh
                    > > > I changed the channel.
                    > > >
                    > > > Now, here's the experience that proves that there
                    > > > is No Need for a Mahanta and that mocking him
                    > > > is no big deal… because he's a FRAUD!
                    > > >
                    > > > The next day I got on the road and was driving
                    > > > for awhile when I was "led" to take a certain exit
                    > > > to get gas. While inside another motorist from
                    > > > Ontario, at the gas pump in front of my auto, told
                    > > > me that my left front tire was about to blow! It was
                    > > > worn on the inside and down to the steel belt. The
                    > > > other front tire was worn badly too. I could have
                    > > > had a blow out doing 80 m.p.h.! (Yes, I speed).
                    > > >
                    > > > BTW- He wasn't an ECK Master... I would have done
                    > > > the same thing.
                    > > >
                    > > > Anyway, I was close to a dealership and drove there
                    > > > very cautiously. They did a four wheel alignment (the
                    > > > toe-in adjustment was off front and rear) and changed
                    > > > all four of my tires. The rest of the trip to and in Atlanta
                    > > > worked out even better! The two hour delay was perfect
                    > > > timing!
                    > > >
                    > > > So, you see… We Don't Need No Stinkin' Mahanta!
                    > > >
                    > > > Prometheus
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > prometheus wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hi Mish and All,
                    > > > > I see where many Eckists believe in their
                    > > > > religion due to their imagined "Eck/master
                    > > > > experiences." I've had many things happen
                    > > > > to me that I could attribute to the "Mahanta"
                    > > > > if I were still an Eckist looking for a story
                    > > > > to share.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > For example: While on a road trip recently I
                    > > > > was thinking how nice it would be to have a
                    > > > > Starbucks skinny orange mocha with no whip
                    > > > > cream. Well, I noticed that I should get gas
                    > > > > and took the next exit. In order to get back
                    > > > > on the freeway I had to drive down a long winding
                    > > > > road. This was very unusual and I wondered where
                    > > > > it was taking me. Well guess what?! It took me
                    > > > > to a Starbucks! After getting my Grande skinny
                    > > > > orange mocha with froth (and an extra shot),
                    > > > > I saw where the road took me back to the Interstate.
                    > > > > Now was this the Mahanta giving me a nudge? Nope!
                    > > > > It was me operating as Soul and listening to Spirit
                    > > > > without the phoney Mahanta taking credit for it.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > There are hundreds of examples of these same kind
                    > > > > of events that we all have. And, No Mahanta is Needed
                    > > > > for any of them!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > If you have any to share please do!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Prometheus
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > mish wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Hi, Kaye & All!
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Kaye what you wrote states it all pretty much in a nutshell:
                    > > > > > "Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the impression I
                    > > > > had
                    > > > > > of PT while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I pictured him
                    > > > > in
                    > > > > > a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden knowledge and
                    > > > > > taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
                    > > > > > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
                    > > > > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
                    > > > > letters
                    > > > > > in his apartment with her right there proofreading them. This is
                    > > > > just
                    > > > > > further proof to me of what this organization started out as and
                    > > > > what
                    > > > > > it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never had this
                    > > > > > effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to me.
                    > > > > I
                    > > > > > began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that I
                    > > > > found
                    > > > > > in other religions."
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > But there is no need to feel dumb for falling for such a scam.
                    > > > > > Unfortunately, the scam continues for so many; thus, what is
                    > > > > > particularly sad are the many who continue to cling to this fake,
                    > > > > > deceptive, made-up religion. PT is still revered while HK is
                    > > > > > tolerated. Someone stated to me today that some people need
                    > > > > religion
                    > > > > > for one reason or another. They need to be told what is the right
                    > > > > way
                    > > > > > to go morally and they also feel safer even though manipulated.
                    > > > > > Because of this need, it opens the door for such conmen like PT
                    > > > > and
                    > > > > > HK. To me, it seems that agreeing to follow such conmen is the
                    > > > > lazy
                    > > > > > man's path to enlightenment. The catch 22 is that the path leads
                    > > > > > nowhere. The followers are achieving nothing when being so
                    > > > > obviously
                    > > > > > tricked. Being trained to use one's imagination in order to
                    > > > > connect
                    > > > > > with fake masters on the pretense of becoming spiritually
                    > > > > enlightened
                    > > > > > and God Realized is not connecting at all! Why would God or Spirit
                    > > > > > view any of us as being less capable of speaking/connecting to Him
                    > > > > > directly than someone like Klemp? Think about it--what makes Klemp
                    > > > > so
                    > > > > > special? Because he says so??? NOT!!
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Here's something to consider as well. How do eckists determine
                    > > > > that
                    > > > > > they are above the fray and more spiritually advanced than non-
                    > > > > > eckists? They are constantly judging others and criticizing. They
                    > > > > are
                    > > > > > also very smug in thinking that they are the chosen ones in this
                    > > > > > lifetime. If someone has an issue with them, say, in the work
                    > > > > place,
                    > > > > > the eckist will never look for fault in himself, but rather he
                    > > > > will
                    > > > > > say that the other is just not as advanced a Soul. There is just
                    > > > > so
                    > > > > > much arrogance that grows into one's personality when believing
                    > > > > all
                    > > > > > the nonsense of the eckankar teachings--as eckists learn this
                    > > > > > arrogance from Klemp's writings and talks in particular. There is
                    > > > > no
                    > > > > > such thing as a humble true blue eckist--it is quite
                    > > > > contradictory.
                    > > > > > One cannot be a true blue eckist and remain humble. It is a rather
                    > > > > > amusing predictament for eckists if they really look at themselves
                    > > > > > individually--look at what is festering truly on the Inner.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Still, on another note, I am looking forward to seeing what "new"
                    > > > > > changes will be taking place within the eckankar org by the time
                    > > > > of
                    > > > > > the next EWWS! I still predict that Joan will be revealed as a
                    > > > > > rightful female eck master and thus she will be able to help HK
                    > > > > > remain on his throne! HK's book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" is a
                    > > > > > cunning ploy to pave the way for Joan's taking over some of the
                    > > > > power
                    > > > > > in the eck org. Such a fairy tale spin is presently under
                    > > > > contruction
                    > > > > > and behind the curtains in Chanhassen! HK believes he can pull
                    > > > > this
                    > > > > > off, because he knows how gullible his followers are! LOL!
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Mish
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > ************************************************
                    > > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, tee green
                    > > > > > <xekweed@> wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Hi Prometheus and Everyone,
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Thanks for getting back to me about Phil. I'm not at all
                    > > > > > surprised that he is still active in the organization. After all,
                    > > > > he
                    > > > > > and many others have so much invested in it. I admit, when I was a
                    > > > > > member, I did enjoy his work. I think the tone of the writer can
                    > > > > > affect the reader deeply if the writer understands this and has
                    > > > > the
                    > > > > > talent to achieve it.
                    > > > > > > Your posts on "Letters to Gail" reminded me of the
                    > > > > impression
                    > > > > > I had of PW while he "wrote" these "letters"- in my mind I
                    > > > > pictured
                    > > > > > him in a hurry, traveling the world unearthing more hidden
                    > > > > knowledge
                    > > > > > and taking the time to tutor this young woman. So intellectual and
                    > > > > > romantic, huh? Now, by reading how it really was,
                    > > > > > > I feel so dumb! There he was, copying the material into phony
                    > > > > > letters in his apartment with her right there proofreading them.
                    > > > > This
                    > > > > > is just further proof to me of what this organization started out
                    > > > > as
                    > > > > > and what it remains today. Funny thing is that HK's writing never
                    > > > > had
                    > > > > > this effect on me- his writing tone was flat and lacked feeling to
                    > > > > > me. I began to view them as dry lectures with the heavy dogma that
                    > > > > I
                    > > > > > found in other religions.
                    > > > > > > If I may, I would like to recommend a website- Beyond
                    > > > > Belief
                    > > > > > 2006- great video clips in which the scientific community reviews
                    > > > > > religious beliefs and questions the validity of them and the
                    > > > > effect
                    > > > > > it has on us.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > http://beyondbelief2006.org/
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Happy Friday!
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Kaye
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > ---------------------------------
                    > > > > > > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
                    > > > > > vehicles.
                    > > > > > > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
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