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Eckankar: 03/2006 The Mystic World-Ask the Master #2 of 2

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi All, Well, it seems that Klemp Did Not follow the Principle of the Threes (i.e. triad, trinity of the individual, worlds of the chela). There are only TWO
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 6, 2006
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      Hi All,
      Well, it seems that Klemp Did Not follow the "Principle of the
      Threes" (i.e. triad, trinity of the individual, worlds of the
      chela). There are only TWO questions ASKED for Klemp! Actually there
      is NO "Principle of Threes" listed in the Lexicon, However, all
      Eckists and HK are well aware of this mental conditioning of looking
      for patterns of 3. Klemp seems to be obsessive-compulsive about this
      most of the time. What happened? Maybe the ESC (Klemp) just needed
      the room for more group pictures to stroke some egos and keep the
      peons in the field happy and doing the vahana thing?! Probably!

      [Q] "I am feeling such pain over our son's recent sharing that he is
      questioning his being in ECKANKAR. He says he was raised in ECKANKAR
      and hasn't known anything else and is feeling confused. His
      girlfriend is a strong Southern Baptist. I realize he has to make
      his own decision. What is the Law of Love? I need help with this one
      Mahanta, because my heart is breaking. He loves us BUT our circle of
      influence has shrunk. I guess that's the natural order of things--to
      love and let go."

      [Me] It seems this Eck parent answered his/her own question in the
      last sentence! Very strange that this Eck parent sounds exactly like
      an overly emotional and fearful Christian parent talking about their
      son being confused and questioning Christianity and having a Eckist
      for a girlfriend! LOL!

      [HK] "As you so wisely summed up your dilemma with your song: 'the
      natural order of things--to love and let go.' It is so, so hard."

      [Me] Song? 'Let go and let God' is a very old saying as is, 'if you
      love them let them go.' Say, didn't Phil Collins have some lyrics
      like that? Maybe that's the "song" Klemp is relating to! And, is HK
      actually showing some emotion and empathy here by saying "so, so
      hard."

      [HK] "Your son needs to SPIT in the face of God, even as I once
      did." [My caps]

      [Me] Having doubts about Eckankar and deciding to look elsewhere and
      maybe choose another path is NOT SPITTING IN THE FACE OF GOD! This
      is an ignorant and absurb statement by Klemp! Just because Klemp
      claims to have done this, as well, is supposedly his justification
      for making such a foolish comment. I see some manipulation coming.

      [HK] "The ECK teachings are dear to you and your husband because you
      know the darkness of spirit before the Light and Sound comes to the
      crying heart."

      [Me] This is true for ANY Spiritual/Truth Seeker! The "darkness"
      comes from religion (Eckankar) and religious dogma and guidelines
      and lies and distortions of Truth that trap Soul. Eckankar was
      created through the fiction and distortions of Paul Twitchell who is
      a proven plagiarist and liar.

      [HK] "The ECK teachings come freely to those born into an ECK family
      and may not have the painful attraction brought on by suffering, as
      in our own tortuous journey to truth."

      [Me] For one thing, "the ECK teachings" are Not free! An Eck family
      has to maintain a yearly PAID membership! And, Klemp is being
      delusional, again, if he thinks there is NO "suffering" or
      responsibility or Karma taking place within Eckankar! There is NO
      free lunch! Any Eckist believing this crap is isolated and isn't
      looking around at other non-Eck people. There are plenty of people
      outside of Eckankar (and former Eckists) that are doing just fine
      and are Not in a "tortuous journey" because SPIRIT (eck) is always
      with them.

      [HK] "Despite seeing a seeker's doubt as only a small leg of a
      seeker's journey to SUGMAD, I cry too when he turns aside. BUT the
      spiritual law commands it."

      [Me] Does the "spiritual law" command that Soul seek only Truth?!
      Perhaps this is why the SEEKER turns away from Eckankar and,
      eventually, all religion! Why does Klemp "cry?" Once again, this is
      his attempt to show empathy and sensitivity. Where was Klemp's
      empathy and sensitivity when he referred to some Eckists as "losers"
      in his "Wonderful" book or when he made those nasty and angry
      comments about that Third Temporary Postal Clerk (09/2003 H.I.
      Letter)?!!!

      [HK] "We love our babies regardless of their humanness. That's why,
      in fact, we love them more."

      [Me] So Eck parents are supposed to "love" their non-Eck children
      even "more!" Maybe Klemp (the LEM/Mahanta) should have put this
      comment in all caps! However, this "love and let go" thing is Not
      always the practice. I know of H.I.s that don't follow this at all!
      How can the Eck Higher Initiations be valid when the Law of Love
      cannot be followed by these Eck parents! They had these Dark Hearts
      even when they recieved more Higher initiations! This is a fact!
      There is proof of their Dark Behaviour and Lack of Love for their
      children. Klemp's own daughter is a Non-Eckist! However, he should
      remember that she is more than human... she is Soul!

      [HK] "So my heart and love are with you. Please remember that no one
      is ever lost in ECK. Love is all; it is always."

      [Me] It is true that no Soul is ever lost because the Higher Self
      and SPIRIT are always there to guide, give counsel, and Love.
      However, Eckankar (Eck) is only there as long as one maintains the
      yearly membership donation($$$). This money is tied into the
      initiations (it is stated in the guidelines/rules). A truly loving
      Master would Not have the unloving and unforgiving track record of
      Klemp. A Fourth would Not be demoted to a First and a 14th (Gross)
      Would Have Been Forgiven and Not have been treated so unlovingly as
      well! Klemp has dropped the ball too often and come up short to try
      and make up for it all in this isolated PR response. Actually, it
      seems like a Damage Control Tactic in order to portray a softer more
      sensitive image. Is his handler, Joan, making suggestions? <smile>

      Prometheus
    • mishmisha9
      ... wrote: [Q] I am feeling such pain over our son s recent sharing that he is questioning his being in ECKANKAR. He says he was raised
      Message 2 of 2 , Mar 8, 2006
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        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

        [Q] "I am feeling such pain over our son's recent sharing that he is
        questioning his being in ECKANKAR. He says he was raised in ECKANKAR
        and hasn't known anything else and is feeling confused. His
        girlfriend is a strong Southern Baptist. I realize he has to make
        his own decision. What is the Law of Love? I need help with this one
        Mahanta, because my heart is breaking. He loves us BUT our circle of
        influence has shrunk. I guess that's the natural order of things--to
        love and let go."

        [HK] "As you so wisely summed up your dilemma with your song: 'the
        natural order of things--to love and let go.' It is so, so hard."

        (MISH) Of course, HK could have compared how his parents' reacted to
        Klemp changing his mind about becoming a Luthern minister while
        still young like this eckist's son and finally dropping out of
        Christianity all together for his chosen spiritual path. Why
        couldn't HK use some of his life experience? Instead, Klemp
        exaggerates this "natural order of things" by stating it is "so
        hard, so hard" to allow this kid his own choices.

        [HK] "Your son needs to SPIT in the face of God, even as I once
        did." [Prometheus' caps]

        (MISH)This statement really gets me! When did Klemp ever spit in the
        face of God??? I don't believe I've read that anywhere. Oh, was it
        when he decided not to become a Luthern minister, or when he quit
        attending church, or when he was so deranged that he jumped off a
        bridge, or maybe when he didn't attend his father's funeral, or when
        he divorced Marge, or when he . . . .? Just when and how did Klemp
        spit in the face of God. Oh, I know, it's when he realized what a
        big fat fake and liar he is and decided to stay the course of his
        charade! LOL!
        If Klemp actually did feel that he did spit in the face of God,
        wouldn't a person have to be extremely angry with God to have done
        that? Wouldn't that person still have anger in his heart, but then
        again doesn't Klemp demonstrate anger from time to time--anger more
        than Unconditional Love? Klemp's intolerance shows a lack of
        UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.
        However, regardless, of Klemp's claim of his own spitting in the
        face of God, to suggest that this eckist's son needs to spit as
        well, is really ridiculous! Klemp on the one hand has somewhat
        reassured this mother that it is a natural order of things for her
        son to question and explore other religious options, but he is
        really calling it spitting in the face of God--I would think this
        would cause more concern to the eckist parents and would create more
        of a strain in the family. When she mentions that she feels the
        circle of influence is not as strong, she is saying how worried she
        is that her son is being pulled away. Now she sees that her son is
        doing more than that--his rebellious behavior is actually spitting
        in the face of God! That is really serious and really extreme. Nice
        job of reassuring this mother, Harold! LOL!

        [HK] "The ECK teachings are dear to you and your husband because you
        know the darkness of spirit before the Light and Sound comes to the
        crying heart."

        (MISH)Oh, this is really sappy, isn't it! LOL!

        [HK] "The ECK teachings come freely to those born into an ECK family
        and may not have the painful attraction brought on by suffering, as
        in our own tortuous journey to truth."

        (MISH) So in truth, those children born into eck families are rather
        born handicapped? But again, I love these words that HK is
        using: "spitting in the face of God," "crying heart," "painful
        attraction brought on by suffering," "our own tortuous journey of
        truth," . . .

        Geez, HK is really into suffering it seems. The thing is though I
        don't think many eckists have suffered anymore or uniquely than any
        other individuals, inside or out of eckankar. However, I believe
        that eckists are taught to believe that their life prior to coming
        into eckankar has been hell. If an eckist was not abused, suffered
        severe poverty, or some excruciating physical ailment, eckists are
        encouraged to "create" their own hardship stories. HK certainly is a
        good example of these creative heart sob stories! His autobiography
        reveals nothing of extreme hardship or difficulties in growing up.
        It all sounded pretty normal to me, except for HK's perception of
        his rather mundane beginnings in middle America. Anyway, just read
        some of those silly eckist stories wherein they share about the
        difficulty of finding a parking space or how a temporary postal
        clerk didn't serve them quickly enough--and one will realize how
        exaggerated and silly these eck hardship stories are! Oh, to be an
        eckist and to know so much! LOL!

        [HK] "Despite seeing a seeker's doubt as only a small leg of a
        seeker's journey to SUGMAD, I cry too when he turns aside. BUT the
        spiritual law commands it."

        (MISH) Yeah, HK is crying too--I doubt this! First and foremost, it
        doesn't really matter to HK what this child is doing right now. His
        family is paying the family membership rate, so no drop in the
        accounts that way. Plus, if this young man is going to doubt the
        teachings, well, he'll become nothing more than a "loser" and HK has
        no time for that sort!

        [HK] "We love our babies regardless of their humanness. That's why,
        in fact, we love them more."

        (MISH) Sweet, HK! Again, HK has criticized this young Soul. HK is
        saying this child is flawed because he is human! Well, hello, HK,
        you're human too! We're all human! However, I don't think that HK
        loves non-eckists or those eckists who are questioning the teachings
        more. His harsh words belie this.


        [HK] "So my heart and love are with you. Please remember that no one
        is ever lost in ECK. Love is all; it is always."

        (MISH) HK is too shallow to understand what love is and therefore is
        unable to give love. HK is all talk but no show!

        Thanks, Prometheus for sharing the Ask the Master Questions. Always,
        fun to see how Klemp chomps about and muddles things up. It really
        shows that Klemp is losing it more and more--or even moreover
        reveals that he didn't have it to begin with. : )

        Mish
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