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Re: Klemp uses suggestion and hypnotism

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Pretujari, I know that there are many Eck stories that are completely or partially fictitious as well. Yes, there is a lot of pressure on Eckists to have
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 19, 2006
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      Hi Pretujari,
      I know that there are many Eck stories that are completely or
      partially fictitious as well. Yes, there is a lot of pressure on
      Eckists to have outer/inner spiritual experiences. Eckist feel the
      need to have experiences like those in Twitchell's Tiger's Fang or
      of James Davis and Phil Morimitsu. These writings put a lot of
      pressure on Eckists. Although James Davis dropped out of Eckankar it
      doesn't make sense as to why Phil's books aren't offered any longer.
      Maybe it was too much competition for Klemp! Hmmmm. Yes, I think so!
      But why isn't the ECK-Vidya offered anymore or even taught! I guess
      Klemp can't handle it either and just isn't the man and Master that
      Twitchell was! LOL! Yes, there are many vain Eckists that like the
      attention and "honor" that their stories bring them, especially,
      when Klemp publishes them! The stories supposedly point out that one
      has grown spiritually and is ready for a Higher Initiation, however,
      in many cases the stories are just as phoney as the initiations
      received. The ones that advance the most and fastest in Eckankar are
      the really good liars and the most delusional! Therefore, Klemp
      seemed to be a good choice for Gross. Hence, the game goes on and on
      in a neverending cycle of illusion for all Eckists involved.

      Prometheus

      pretujari wrote:

      Hi Prometheus, Mish, and All,
      I am sure Klemp made up the story about the Nigerian Eckist,
      Christy. I have long suspected he has been making some of these
      stories up by the way something about them do not gel, like the
      holes Prometheus you punched in the Christy story. Some of these
      stories are sent to him from the field, of course. But even many of
      those are made up by their tellers who wish to gain recognition for
      the trumped up initiations.

      Some years ago, at an Eckankar workshop, someone very close to
      Klemp, working with him at the international office, related a story
      that made me suspect Klemp uses suggestion and hypnotism on the
      members. The entry about himself in his latest book with the
      recycled contents has confirmed this for me.

      What are the methods of the hypnotist? Essentially, the practioner
      immobilizes one's conscious will or sets it aside in order to get to
      the subconscious. Then he issues commands to the subconscious which
      accepts and acts it out without the sanction of the conscious will.
      I detected a similar method, very subtly done, in Klemp's write-up
      about himself as reproduced by Mish in Klemp's new book.

      First, he told his readers in a one sentence paragraph at the
      beginning of a chapter. `I am well aware of my limitations.'

      The function of this sentence and the manner it is delivered is
      meant to engage the conscious, reasoning mind, to get it out of the
      way by giving it something to engage its attention. While it is thus
      engaged, the subconscious is unguarded and exposed. Then is the time
      to issue the suggestions to it.

      So immediately following the single sentence paragraph, he proceeds
      to suggest to the subconscious of the reader the subliminal messages
      about the mahanta such as:

      "The Mahanta [Master Klemp] is the highest state of consciousness
      known to the chronicles of manÂ…"

      "You have only to seek the Mahanta, [Master Klemp] today's Living
      Eck Master. He is God's elect."

      "Think of the Mahanta [Master Klemp] as the Personalized ECK.

      "The Mahanta, the Living Eck Master [Master Klemp] also has the
      ability and the authority to alter an individual's fate."

      Klemp also capitalizes on the power of the individual's imagination
      to form and manifest what it forms. This is what makes the spiritual
      exercises work. He reveals this in this statement accompanying the
      spiritual exercises of seeing any of the masters:

      "At first you may feel you have met Rebarzar or one of the ECK
      Masters only in your imagination. But with time and practice, you
      will find they are real people just like you."

      This is a very powerful suggestion, aimed at the power of the
      individual's imagination manifesting a belief through repetition.

      So, once the suggestions have been accepted by the subconscious, the
      imagination proceed to form and manifest them as the person's inner
      and outer experiences. This is how the individual is hooked. One
      will remain so until they finally listen to doubts brought to the
      attention by the Inner Voice and listen to It.

      The evidence to all of this is shown in how the inner and outer
      Eckankar experiences immediately ceases with anyone when he or she
      severs connection and renounces Eckankar.

      Pretujari
    • prometheus_973
      Hi All, I thought that I would revisit some of the myth that Twitchell created and to show more of the DARK (KAL) SIDE of his character. Of course, Klemp
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 1, 2006
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        Hi All,
        I thought that I would revisit some of the myth that Twitchell
        created and to show more of the DARK (KAL) SIDE of his character. Of
        course, Klemp mentions as fact that Twitchell lied to get into
        Kentucky's Who's Who at age 27 in 1935. From there Twitchell gets
        married in 1941 to his first wife in order to avoid the draft during
        WWII. He figured that with his age and being married that he should
        be able to sit out the war. However, in 1942 Twitchell reluctantly
        joins the Navy at the age of 34.

        While in the Navy Twitchell did more lying and actually sabotaged
        things by creating confusion. Even when in grade school Twitchell
        was passive/aggressive when it came to authority figures and these
        traits, along with the lying and narcissism, continued throughout
        his life. The following quote are by Twitchell in July, 1971 and
        from the book "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master."

        PT: "And I discovered one thing at this time, a very interesting
        thing. That I could control my universe and I COULD CONTROL THE
        UNIVERSE OF EVERYONE ELSE... I found out on setting my mind on
        something, it was going to work and it was going to work exactly MY
        WAY. IF I got into the service, I WASN'T going to be bothered with
        this sort of thing, of going out there on the front line and
        fighting. I WAS GOING TO FIND MYSELF A NICE, COMFORTABLE BERTH
        SOMEPLACE AND BE KEPT THERE... this is one of the acts of POWER that
        all the dictators and everybody else had found, BUT I was using it
        in my own way and not using it as a control over a great number of
        people, EXCEPT TO KEEP MYSELF OUT OF POSITIONS OF DANGER." [my caps.
        pgs. 51-52]

        Twitchell goes on to mention some of the tricks he pulled to get out
        of duty and to create confusion... REMEMBER, THIS IS DURING WARTIME!

        PT: "Well, finally I got into the service... the point was that the
        higher echelon, or the superior officers, were always having a rough
        time with me because I never acted in accordance to what they
        expected of their enlisted personnel. I COULD BLOCK THEM AND CREATE
        ALL SORTS OF FRUSTRATIONS AND CREATE PROBLEMS FOR THEM WHICH THEY
        NEVER KNEW WAS HAPPENING, OR THEY NEVER LAID THE CAUSE TO ME. i
        COULD GET THE PAPERS FUMBLED UP ON MYSELF UNTIL ONE TIME THEY GOT ME
        LOST!... THIS SORT OF THING HAD CREATED A VACUUM WHICH I HAD SET OUT
        TO DO, TO CREATE THE CONFUSION..." [my caps, pg. 53]

        After Twitchell got out of the Navy in worked in D.C. joined some
        different spiritual groups with his first and was initiated by
        Kirpal Singh, got divorced and moved to Seattle, Washington where
        Twit met Gail. Anyway, Twit claims to have worked at a major
        newspaper in Seattle (1963) and is still doing pranks, etc. and is
        still demonstrating passive/agressiveness while creating confusion
        at the age of 55.

        PT: "Well, most of these things that I did were actually PRANKS and
        just whimsical little things I did to STAB those people who had
        swollen heads and who were very unhappy about me being in their way
        like this. I did a lot of BUTTON-PUNCHING and did a lot of things
        there that people didn't like... I was actually playing PRANKS on
        the whole organization and THIS IS THE WAY THAT I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN
        ALL MY LIFE WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT. I just kept punching holes here
        and there where they would feel my punches, and yet sometimes they
        were so subtle that they couldn't be seen and sometimes they were
        just so big they'd hit them on the head with it... They always
        wanted to give me the worst end of everything and yet they
        themselves wanted to make money off my labor so I says I can't work
        this way and I went into writing and eventually I became a writer
        and eventually this writing was what hepled me become the writer
        that I am today." [my caps, pgs. 16-17]

        Well, I think that everyone can see from this why Twitchell
        plagiarized. HE COULDN'T WRITE! It also shows his nature to lie and
        manipulate and that he'd been doing this all his life. After
        Twitchell joined Scientology, met L. Ron Hubbard, years later
        meeting and marrying GAIL in Seattle, it's no wonder that creating
        ECKANKAR and becoming his own boss (and Saviour to the world) would
        be Twitchell's next step! Twitchell's scam/vocation and 'whimsical'
        joke is just passed on down into the dark dank tunnel of deception
        to the new and improved Kal agents (the KLEMPS) who spin the TRUTH
        and who delusionally want to think that they are doing some "good."

        Prometheus



        Mishmisha wrote:

        Hi, All!

        When I read the descriptions that Twitchell applied to his made up
        ECK Masters, Fubbi and Yaubl, I couldn't help put take a look once
        more at Klemp's new book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" to see how
        Klemp's version of their appearance compares to Twitchell's. I'll
        insert the exerpts from Klemp's book following each of Twitchell's
        descriptions of these eck masters that Prometheus has listed in his
        post below. You can make the comparison between how the two modern
        L.E.M.s/Mahantas viewed these made up eck masters--they do differ.
        Unfortunately, the chelas have to sort it out--which Mahanta should
        they believe? : )

        ###################################################################


        Prometheus wrote:

        I overlooked some of PT's descriptions (10-16) for Yaubl. Here's the
        update.

        Hi Pretujari,
        I found some old descriptions of Fubbi & Yaubl that don't match the
        ones that Klemp and Company are promoting. Who or what are these
        Eckists seeing? Twitch had the first contact with these "Masters" so
        one would think that his descriptions are the more valid ones!

        Here are Paul's descriptions as stated in "Difficulties of Becoming
        the Living ECK Master."

        Fubbi Quantz (pgs 110-112):
        1. Wears a high turban
        2. Long white robe
        3. Does Not appear to people or gives instructions
        4. Very busy with the Shariyat
        5. Awfully busy with spiritual development of the planet
        6. 1,000 years old (close to)
        7. Very tall 6'3"
        8. Very swarthy, long hands, pointed feet
        9. Rebazar was his pupil
        10. Has a very deep rolling voice
        11. Monastery is a long brown building upon a mountain peak &
        overlooks a range of mountains.
        12. Located in Tibet on earth plane-planes fly over but can't see
        it, etc.

        [NOTE: Twitchell DID NOT mention that FUBBI had a BEARD but did
        mention that he wore a HIGH TURBAN!]

        Mish: Klemp in "Those Wonderful ECK Master" describes Fubbi thus:
        from page 26, "He (Fubbi) is a tall, elderly man with white hair and
        beard, and a gentle smile. Good humor gleams in his eyes. Paul
        Twitchell once described him as having a lantern jaw, and the
        description fits. Usually Fubbi appears to spiritual students in a
        white robe that reaches well below the knees. . . . "

        The drawing of Fubbi in Klemp's book does not have him wearing a
        high turban but rather Fubbi has a cloth draped over his head.

        As to Fubbi not appearing to people or giving instructions as
        Twitchell described, Klemp goes on in his chapter on Fubbi with
        stories of chelas seeing him in their dreams and also in the
        physical.

        Klemp also explains Fubbi's God experience on page 28. It has a
        familiar ring to it--I'm sure you will notice as you read Klemp's
        words--he is so original! (LOL):

        HK: "What preparatory steps were involved that carried him (Fubbi)
        even beyond that stage so he coudl enter in the circle of ECK Adepts
        and the Vairagi Masters? He was studying at a monastery then, and
        life had put him where he couldn't see a way out to find spiritual
        freedom. So he made the decision to climb a holy mountain in search
        of enlightenment. He supposed that such a mountain peak was as good
        a place as any to continue his quest. When he reached the summit, he
        creied, 'God, why have you forsaken me?' After a while there came a
        voice. It said, 'My son, I haven't forsaken you. I've been with you
        through the ages.' And the lightening flashed, and thunder
        rolled. . . . "

        I have to ask how can anyone read this with a straight face???

        #####################################################################

        Yaubl Sacabi (pgs. 113-115):
        1. He doesn't walk upright
        2. His face is a light color, looks very ascetic, and very old
        3. Walks slowly and speaks with great dignity and in a higher than
        normal pitch.
        4. Teacher of Fubbi
        5. 5'8" or 5'10" tall
        6. A sort of square face
        7. 2,000-3,000 years old (not sure)
        8. Very long slender hands
        9. Lives on Agam Des with the God-Eaters in Himalaya Mountains near
        Kashmer border.
        10. Wears a sort of a sandal
        11. Wears a toga type of a gown
        12. Likes to sit in a corner of a public market
        13. Talks from a podium
        14. People will come there via Soul Travel to study the Shariyat
        15. The place (monastery) looks like Canterbury Cathedral in England
        16. Light surrounds him and comes from him


        [NOTE: Twitch DID NOT mention Yaubl's LACK OF HAIR and stated that
        he walked bent over and LOOKED VERY OLD!]>

        ####################################################################

        Klemp describes Yaubl in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," page 145, as
        follows:

        HK: "You will recognize Yaubl at first sight, for his bald head
        looks a bit like a brass dome. A strong nose, thick neck, and well-
        developed muscles in arems and chest outline a capable, rugged
        appearance."

        The "official" drawing of Yaubl at the beginning of the chapter
        about him does not depict as looking very old as Twitchell says and
        Klemp's describes him as being strong and fit, rather than walking
        bent over like an old man--or maybe he looks strong and walks around
        like a broken down man?? This doesn't make sense does it? : )

        ###################################################################

        Both of these descriptions of Fubbi and Yaubl that Paul Twitchell
        (First LEM/Mahanta and founder of Eckankar) gives don't match with
        the drawings that were done after Twitchell's death! How then can
        these "masters" be believable to Eckists. Who and What are they
        seeing?

        *Eckists are Not seeing the same FUBBI and YAUBL that Twitchell saw!
        Perhaps this is one more reason why Klemp has refused to reprint or
        make available as a e-book "The Difficulties of Becoming the Living
        ECK Master" by Paul Twitchell.

        I agree. It is through suggestion and hypnosis that Eckists are
        seeing what they see. When visions of visitations take place before
        the fact of meeting these "Masters" or HK it is merely that Soul
        (not limited by time and space) is experiencing the influences that
        will be taking place in the future. Deja vu is quite common to every
        Soul!

        Prometheus

        ####################################################################

        I think this is rather fun to make these comparisons between
        Twitchell and Klemp--what each of these fraudulent mahantas have
        said as they spun their lies and deceptions in keeping chelas hooked
        on these fake "teachings!"

        Mish
      • pretujari
        Hi Prometheus, Mish, and All, Thanks for revealing the interesting discrepancies between the descriptions of Twitchell and Klemp of Fubbi Quantz and Yaubl
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 3, 2006
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          Hi Prometheus, Mish, and All,
          Thanks for revealing the interesting discrepancies between the
          descriptions of Twitchell and Klemp of Fubbi Quantz and Yaubl
          Sacabi. Another clear evidence that these eck masters were contrived
          and fabricated. I mean, the descriptions of Twitchell and Klemp of
          Yaubl Sacabi are like chalk and cheese. LOL

          And Mish, with my Eckankar blinkers removed, I couldn't keep a
          straight face when I read about how Fubbi attained enlightenment.
          Even now am laughing!

          I've wondered certain things about the eck masters over the years.
          For example, are the names we know their spiritual names or secular
          ones? Klemp is Wah Z, Gross is Dap Ren. So is `Gopal Das' a
          spiritual name or secular one? And what is the spiritual name of eck
          master Sudar Singh? Someone ought to ask Klemp this because it has
          never been mentioned. So tell us, Klempus, what is Sudar's spiritual
          name?

          Talking of Gopal Das, the name is patently Indian and sounds more
          like a secular name than a spiritual one. Yet his features doesn't
          suggest he is of Indian extraction. These to mention but a few.

          And did African or Black eckists had to wait till 1999 or
          thereabouts for a photo of African eck master Towart Managi to be
          released?

          Once a scammer and prankster always a scammer and prankster. Did PT
          at one point decided to pull his biggest prank with the creation of
          Eckankar? The evidence that this is so to the objective observer is
          overwhelming. I wonder what Twitchell's thoughts were on Eckankar in
          his private moments.

          What about the big fight Twitchell got into while in an Ashram in
          D.C? According to Klemp, it was a long and brutal fight between the
          future eck master and another member of the spiritual group he
          belonged to at that time. When it was all over, Twitchell suffered
          broken ribs and an eye injury. He was expelled from the compound and
          not long afterwards he and his first wife, Camille Brown, divorced.

          Pretujari




          -- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi All,
          > I thought that I would revisit some of the myth that Twitchell
          > created and to show more of the DARK (KAL) SIDE of his character.
          Of
          > course, Klemp mentions as fact that Twitchell lied to get into
          > Kentucky's Who's Who at age 27 in 1935. From there Twitchell gets
          > married in 1941 to his first wife in order to avoid the draft
          during
          > WWII. He figured that with his age and being married that he
          should
          > be able to sit out the war. However, in 1942 Twitchell reluctantly
          > joins the Navy at the age of 34.
          >
          > While in the Navy Twitchell did more lying and actually sabotaged
          > things by creating confusion. Even when in grade school Twitchell
          > was passive/aggressive when it came to authority figures and these
          > traits, along with the lying and narcissism, continued throughout
          > his life. The following quote are by Twitchell in July, 1971 and
          > from the book "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master."
          >
          > PT: "And I discovered one thing at this time, a very interesting
          > thing. That I could control my universe and I COULD CONTROL THE
          > UNIVERSE OF EVERYONE ELSE... I found out on setting my mind on
          > something, it was going to work and it was going to work exactly
          MY
          > WAY. IF I got into the service, I WASN'T going to be bothered with
          > this sort of thing, of going out there on the front line and
          > fighting. I WAS GOING TO FIND MYSELF A NICE, COMFORTABLE BERTH
          > SOMEPLACE AND BE KEPT THERE... this is one of the acts of POWER
          that
          > all the dictators and everybody else had found, BUT I was using it
          > in my own way and not using it as a control over a great number of
          > people, EXCEPT TO KEEP MYSELF OUT OF POSITIONS OF DANGER." [my
          caps.
          > pgs. 51-52]
          >
          > Twitchell goes on to mention some of the tricks he pulled to get
          out
          > of duty and to create confusion... REMEMBER, THIS IS DURING
          WARTIME!
          >
          > PT: "Well, finally I got into the service... the point was that
          the
          > higher echelon, or the superior officers, were always having a
          rough
          > time with me because I never acted in accordance to what they
          > expected of their enlisted personnel. I COULD BLOCK THEM AND
          CREATE
          > ALL SORTS OF FRUSTRATIONS AND CREATE PROBLEMS FOR THEM WHICH THEY
          > NEVER KNEW WAS HAPPENING, OR THEY NEVER LAID THE CAUSE TO ME. i
          > COULD GET THE PAPERS FUMBLED UP ON MYSELF UNTIL ONE TIME THEY GOT
          ME
          > LOST!... THIS SORT OF THING HAD CREATED A VACUUM WHICH I HAD SET
          OUT
          > TO DO, TO CREATE THE CONFUSION..." [my caps, pg. 53]
          >
          > After Twitchell got out of the Navy in worked in D.C. joined some
          > different spiritual groups with his first and was initiated by
          > Kirpal Singh, got divorced and moved to Seattle, Washington where
          > Twit met Gail. Anyway, Twit claims to have worked at a major
          > newspaper in Seattle (1963) and is still doing pranks, etc. and is
          > still demonstrating passive/agressiveness while creating confusion
          > at the age of 55.
          >
          > PT: "Well, most of these things that I did were actually PRANKS
          and
          > just whimsical little things I did to STAB those people who had
          > swollen heads and who were very unhappy about me being in their
          way
          > like this. I did a lot of BUTTON-PUNCHING and did a lot of things
          > there that people didn't like... I was actually playing PRANKS on
          > the whole organization and THIS IS THE WAY THAT I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN
          > ALL MY LIFE WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT. I just kept punching holes
          here
          > and there where they would feel my punches, and yet sometimes they
          > were so subtle that they couldn't be seen and sometimes they were
          > just so big they'd hit them on the head with it... They always
          > wanted to give me the worst end of everything and yet they
          > themselves wanted to make money off my labor so I says I can't
          work
          > this way and I went into writing and eventually I became a writer
          > and eventually this writing was what hepled me become the writer
          > that I am today." [my caps, pgs. 16-17]
          >
          > Well, I think that everyone can see from this why Twitchell
          > plagiarized. HE COULDN'T WRITE! It also shows his nature to lie
          and
          > manipulate and that he'd been doing this all his life. After
          > Twitchell joined Scientology, met L. Ron Hubbard, years later
          > meeting and marrying GAIL in Seattle, it's no wonder that creating
          > ECKANKAR and becoming his own boss (and Saviour to the world)
          would
          > be Twitchell's next step! Twitchell's scam/vocation
          and 'whimsical'
          > joke is just passed on down into the dark dank tunnel of deception
          > to the new and improved Kal agents (the KLEMPS) who spin the TRUTH
          > and who delusionally want to think that they are doing
          some "good."
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          >
          > Mishmisha wrote:
          >
          > Hi, All!
          >
          > When I read the descriptions that Twitchell applied to his made up
          > ECK Masters, Fubbi and Yaubl, I couldn't help put take a look once
          > more at Klemp's new book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" to see how
          > Klemp's version of their appearance compares to Twitchell's. I'll
          > insert the exerpts from Klemp's book following each of Twitchell's
          > descriptions of these eck masters that Prometheus has listed in
          his
          > post below. You can make the comparison between how the two modern
          > L.E.M.s/Mahantas viewed these made up eck masters--they do differ.
          > Unfortunately, the chelas have to sort it out--which Mahanta
          should
          > they believe? : )
          >
          > ###################################################################
          >
          >
          > Prometheus wrote:
          >
          > I overlooked some of PT's descriptions (10-16) for Yaubl. Here's
          the
          > update.
          >
          > Hi Pretujari,
          > I found some old descriptions of Fubbi & Yaubl that don't match
          the
          > ones that Klemp and Company are promoting. Who or what are these
          > Eckists seeing? Twitch had the first contact with these "Masters"
          so
          > one would think that his descriptions are the more valid ones!
          >
          > Here are Paul's descriptions as stated in "Difficulties of
          Becoming
          > the Living ECK Master."
          >
          > Fubbi Quantz (pgs 110-112):
          > 1. Wears a high turban
          > 2. Long white robe
          > 3. Does Not appear to people or gives instructions
          > 4. Very busy with the Shariyat
          > 5. Awfully busy with spiritual development of the planet
          > 6. 1,000 years old (close to)
          > 7. Very tall 6'3"
          > 8. Very swarthy, long hands, pointed feet
          > 9. Rebazar was his pupil
          > 10. Has a very deep rolling voice
          > 11. Monastery is a long brown building upon a mountain peak &
          > overlooks a range of mountains.
          > 12. Located in Tibet on earth plane-planes fly over but can't see
          > it, etc.
          >
          > [NOTE: Twitchell DID NOT mention that FUBBI had a BEARD but did
          > mention that he wore a HIGH TURBAN!]
          >
          > Mish: Klemp in "Those Wonderful ECK Master" describes Fubbi thus:
          > from page 26, "He (Fubbi) is a tall, elderly man with white hair
          and
          > beard, and a gentle smile. Good humor gleams in his eyes. Paul
          > Twitchell once described him as having a lantern jaw, and the
          > description fits. Usually Fubbi appears to spiritual students in a
          > white robe that reaches well below the knees. . . . "
          >
          > The drawing of Fubbi in Klemp's book does not have him wearing a
          > high turban but rather Fubbi has a cloth draped over his head.
          >
          > As to Fubbi not appearing to people or giving instructions as
          > Twitchell described, Klemp goes on in his chapter on Fubbi with
          > stories of chelas seeing him in their dreams and also in the
          > physical.
          >
          > Klemp also explains Fubbi's God experience on page 28. It has a
          > familiar ring to it--I'm sure you will notice as you read Klemp's
          > words--he is so original! (LOL):
          >
          > HK: "What preparatory steps were involved that carried him (Fubbi)
          > even beyond that stage so he coudl enter in the circle of ECK
          Adepts
          > and the Vairagi Masters? He was studying at a monastery then, and
          > life had put him where he couldn't see a way out to find spiritual
          > freedom. So he made the decision to climb a holy mountain in
          search
          > of enlightenment. He supposed that such a mountain peak was as
          good
          > a place as any to continue his quest. When he reached the summit,
          he
          > creied, 'God, why have you forsaken me?' After a while there came
          a
          > voice. It said, 'My son, I haven't forsaken you. I've been with
          you
          > through the ages.' And the lightening flashed, and thunder
          > rolled. . . . "
          >
          > I have to ask how can anyone read this with a straight face???
          >
          >
          #####################################################################
          >
          > Yaubl Sacabi (pgs. 113-115):
          > 1. He doesn't walk upright
          > 2. His face is a light color, looks very ascetic, and very old
          > 3. Walks slowly and speaks with great dignity and in a higher
          than
          > normal pitch.
          > 4. Teacher of Fubbi
          > 5. 5'8" or 5'10" tall
          > 6. A sort of square face
          > 7. 2,000-3,000 years old (not sure)
          > 8. Very long slender hands
          > 9. Lives on Agam Des with the God-Eaters in Himalaya Mountains
          near
          > Kashmer border.
          > 10. Wears a sort of a sandal
          > 11. Wears a toga type of a gown
          > 12. Likes to sit in a corner of a public market
          > 13. Talks from a podium
          > 14. People will come there via Soul Travel to study the Shariyat
          > 15. The place (monastery) looks like Canterbury Cathedral in
          England
          > 16. Light surrounds him and comes from him
          >
          >
          > [NOTE: Twitch DID NOT mention Yaubl's LACK OF HAIR and stated that
          > he walked bent over and LOOKED VERY OLD!]>
          >
          >
          ####################################################################
          >
          > Klemp describes Yaubl in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," page 145,
          as
          > follows:
          >
          > HK: "You will recognize Yaubl at first sight, for his bald head
          > looks a bit like a brass dome. A strong nose, thick neck, and well-
          > developed muscles in arems and chest outline a capable, rugged
          > appearance."
          >
          > The "official" drawing of Yaubl at the beginning of the chapter
          > about him does not depict as looking very old as Twitchell says
          and
          > Klemp's describes him as being strong and fit, rather than walking
          > bent over like an old man--or maybe he looks strong and walks
          around
          > like a broken down man?? This doesn't make sense does it? : )
          >
          > ###################################################################
          >
          > Both of these descriptions of Fubbi and Yaubl that Paul Twitchell
          > (First LEM/Mahanta and founder of Eckankar) gives don't match with
          > the drawings that were done after Twitchell's death! How then can
          > these "masters" be believable to Eckists. Who and What are they
          > seeing?
          >
          > *Eckists are Not seeing the same FUBBI and YAUBL that Twitchell
          saw!
          > Perhaps this is one more reason why Klemp has refused to reprint
          or
          > make available as a e-book "The Difficulties of Becoming the
          Living
          > ECK Master" by Paul Twitchell.
          >
          > I agree. It is through suggestion and hypnosis that Eckists are
          > seeing what they see. When visions of visitations take place
          before
          > the fact of meeting these "Masters" or HK it is merely that Soul
          > (not limited by time and space) is experiencing the influences
          that
          > will be taking place in the future. Deja vu is quite common to
          every
          > Soul!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          ####################################################################
          >
          > I think this is rather fun to make these comparisons between
          > Twitchell and Klemp--what each of these fraudulent mahantas have
          > said as they spun their lies and deceptions in keeping chelas
          hooked
          > on these fake "teachings!"
          >
          > Mish
          >
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