Re: Eckankar: 12/2005 The Mystic World-Ask the Master #3a.
- Hello Prometheus and all,
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
>*** There's nothing to communicate nor to understand, Harry - other
> [Q]: "How does a leader support the conservation (outer
> need for certain approvals, copyrights, etc.) necessary to the
> survival of Eckankar without dampening the natural enthusiasm of
> chelas? Another way to say this is, how can we communicate to
> that the RESA structure is based on love and not power?"
than the resa structure *is* based on power! So, just save your
energy because it's not complicated at all to understand that.
>*** Eckists like to donate because they think that that way, they
> [Me] Actually, the RESA structure is based on power! It is a
> hierarchy and has a pecking order. There are guidelines that keep
> certain "types" of Eckists in line, in part, to protect the
> copyrights and non-profit status of the Corporation. This is also
> why Eckists can pay or "donate" any amount they want in regards to
> membership or in attending seminars. A non-profit organization can
> lose their non-profit status by charging "fees" for religious
> memberships and religious seminars and Must Accept Any Amount Of
> Money As A Donation.
can buy happiness ever after! It's no different than the Middle Age
payments that were made to make people's sins forgiven. One of my
very good eckist friends donated regularly every month even if he
didn't know how to pay his monthly dues - but he said that as long
as he had money, he wanted to give to the temple because that would
keep the money flowing. Well, it did so for sure!
>*** No it can't Harry, because you are one of those who "pollute"
> [HK] "We're doing our level best to keep the ECK teachings in the
> purest state possible, despite all of the Kal's attempt's to erode
> them. I could go on for pages about all the variations that
> try to creep in now due to differences in cultures, words with
> different shades of meaning in other languages, and honest
> misinterpretations of the Everlasting Gospel of ECK. Those are
> unintentional. Nothing much can be done about that."
the teachings! Well, they were not pure from the beginning - so I
wonder if they *can* be polluted at all! LOL!
>*** Yes you can deny those fake initiations! Or tell people subtly
> [Me] "Everlasting Gospel?" Klemp just can't let go of his Luthern
> roots can he! Who are the "We're" or we are? Does the LEM/Mahanta
> need help? It seems the LEM/Mahanta is powerless when he states
> that "Nothing much can be done about that." Afterall, doesn't the
> Kal rule the lower planes? As the Kal's agent Klemp is well aware
> [HK] "BUT there are also deliberate attempts to twist the sacred
> writings by misusing or citing ECK information for the purpose of
> destroying people's trust in the teachings of ECK. We can do
> something about that."
that any contact to "detractors" is Not desired!
>*** Well, as somebody just told me recently, isn't that a cult
> [Me] Pointing out Klemp's hypocrisy when he still uses "BUT"
> just shows that he isn't what he claims! There is no "twist"
> to point out the deceptions and contradictions. The accusation
> of "misusing" Eck information is bogus since the intent is to give
> another perspective, that tends to conflict with the cult's dogma,
> but also leads to knowledge and understanding and truth. However,
> didn't the Eckist's question have to do with protecting copyrights
> by having Eckists follow guidelines and how to get that message
> across by using love instead of power! It seems that the
> of the Klempster's authority is making him Very Angry!
attribute? Not to question anything, especially not the leaders?
> HK is getting*** Well, you better not question HK, the mahanta! Or you won't get
> away from the original question and going off on a tangent. I
> Klemp isn't use to having his statements questioned and having his
> faults pointed out to him. Yep! The truth does hurt doesn't it! I
> understand. BUT, someone has to point out the truth on behalf of
> fearful silent Eckists.
those fake initiations any more (am I repeating myself?? LOL!) and
won't be able to socialize with eckists as you were used to! But
wait - of course eckists don't gather for a social purpose! They
gather solely for spiritual purposes! LOL!
>*** Yes of course it will happen, and of course eckists will let it
> [HK] "In a law-laden society, such as burdens us today, we use all
> the legal safe guards available to us."
> [Me] Well, it sounds like the WITCH hunt is on! HK wants to
> the Eck HERETICS just like the early Christian Church did! Yet,
> weren't the Heretics the true believers and followers of Spiritual
> Truth! The Heretics disagreed with the dogma and guidelines and
> rules that took their church more and more into the material world
> and away from the Spiritual. Klemp has always been more than
> to use secular "law" to control and eliminate those Eckists who
> extremely disagree with the direction Eckankar is heading under
> leadership when demoting or withholding initiations doesn't work.
> This is the exact same path (of "law") that the Catholic Church
> (and others) once took! Will Eckists permit this to happen? Of
> course they will... they are afraid to speak their minds and say
> that this is Not the direction that Love takes... it is the
> direction of Power and of the Kal!
happen - followers always let it happen in the past! It's still too
early to compare eckankar with the early Christian Church because
eckankar is only 40 years old! But the older it will get, the more
it will look like any ordinary religion, and the more it will shut
up "heretic" members - whatever means it will take!
- [Q]: "How does a leader support the conservation (outer guidelines,
need for certain approvals, copyrights, etc.) necessary to the
survival of Eckankar without dampening the natural enthusiasm of
chelas? Another way to say this is, how can we communicate to chelas
that the RESA structure is based on love and not power?"
[HK] "Times change. It was safe in the 1930s for people to leave
their homes unlocked, day or night. There was little crime of the
sort that happens in society today. This is a world of illusion, no
[Me] Actually, most people in Canada, today, don't lock their doors
when they leave the house unattended or at night when they are
asleep! They will Not even lock their doors AFTER having burglars
(theives) enter their homes and steal their possessions at night
while they are sleeping!
[HK] "Yet the greatest illusion of some people is that it's not
necessary to tie up their camels IF they trust in God."
[Me] "Yet the greatest illusion of some people" is that Eckankar is
believable. To bring this old saying up-to-date is to say, Lock up
your car AND trust in God!
[HK] "People who insist upon working outside the legal structure of
society or ECKANKAR may be dreamers who are simply out of touch with
the times. Or, they could be active agents for the Kal, the negative
[Me] What is Klemp talking about! I know that this is a threat of
sorts but to whom? Perhaps, this involves those Eckists (heretics)
who do Not follow the guidelines. I spoke to one very high ranking
Eckist, of the high inner circle let's say, that told me that they
don't follow guidelines! I was shocked! And sure enough, I watched
and saw that this person did things that were in direct opposition
to the Eck guidelines. Yet, no one even questioned any of it! Most
Eckists just don't care to know all of the outer organizational crap
anyway. I now realize that they were just expressing their own
Spiritual Freedom and Mastership. Anyone who stands in the way of
Soul's Spiritual Freedom and Mastership is an agent for the Kal/LEM!
[HK] "Others will know by their own inner experiences, or by your
outer examples too, that the ECK hierarchy has its basis in the love
and power of God, not man."
[Me] No, the hierarchy is based on Power and Kal (God) fear tactics
or threats which Klemp does Not hesitate to use! [In Eckankar the
SUGMAD and "God" are Not the same.]
[HK] "To keep up the chelas enthusiasm in the face of the necessary
guidelines, try to make the whole process as simple and painless as
you can. Also send ideas for simplification to the ECKANKAR
Spiritual Center (ESC) to see where there is a better way to handle
the legal necessities. All will benefit from good ideas."
[Me] So Eckists are to "send ideas for simplification" for "a better
way to handle the legal necessities" in following guidelines to the
ESC! Well, let me give this a shot even though I'm Not an Eckist!
First, censor Doug Marman and then shut down HU-Chat and Chela Chat
and the other "unofficial" Eckankar Internet sites. This would be
great damage control and a spiritual technique, of sorts, to restore
greater ignorance and harmony to the Eckankar teachings. <smile>