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Eckankar: 12/2005 The Mystic World-Ask the Master #3a.

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  • prometheus_973
    [Q]: How does a leader support the conservation (outer guidelines, need for certain approvals, copyrights, etc.) necessary to the survival of Eckankar without
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 18, 2006
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      [Q]: "How does a leader support the conservation (outer guidelines,
      need for certain approvals, copyrights, etc.) necessary to the
      survival of Eckankar without dampening the natural enthusiasm of
      chelas? Another way to say this is, how can we communicate to chelas
      that the RESA structure is based on love and not power?"

      [Me] Actually, the RESA structure is based on power! It is a
      hierarchy and has a pecking order. There are guidelines that keep
      certain "types" of Eckists in line, in part, to protect the
      copyrights and non-profit status of the Corporation. This is also
      why Eckists can pay or "donate" any amount they want in regards to
      membership or in attending seminars. A non-profit organization can
      lose their non-profit status by charging "fees" for religious
      memberships and religious seminars and Must Accept Any Amount Of
      Money As A Donation.

      [HK] "We're doing our level best to keep the ECK teachings in the
      purest state possible, despite all of the Kal's attempt's to erode
      them. I could go on for pages about all the variations that already
      try to creep in now due to differences in cultures, words with
      different shades of meaning in other languages, and honest
      misinterpretations of the Everlasting Gospel of ECK. Those are
      unintentional. Nothing much can be done about that."

      [Me] "Everlasting Gospel?" Klemp just can't let go of his Luthern
      roots can he! Who are the "We're" or we are? Does the LEM/Mahanta
      need help? It seems the LEM/Mahanta is powerless when he states
      that "Nothing much can be done about that." Afterall, doesn't the
      Kal rule the lower planes? As the Kal's agent Klemp is well aware of
      this!

      [HK] "BUT there are also deliberate attempts to twist the sacred
      writings by misusing or citing ECK information for the purpose of
      destroying people's trust in the teachings of ECK. We can do
      something about that."

      [Me] Pointing out Klemp's hypocrisy when he still uses "BUT" or "IF"
      just shows that he isn't what he claims! There is no "twist" except
      to point out the deceptions and contradictions. The accusation
      of "misusing" Eck information is bogus since the intent is to give
      another perspective, that tends to conflict with the cult's dogma,
      but also leads to knowledge and understanding and truth. However,
      didn't the Eckist's question have to do with protecting copyrights
      by having Eckists follow guidelines and how to get that message
      across by using love instead of power! It seems that the questioning
      of the Klempster's authority is making him Very Angry! HK is getting
      away from the original question and going off on a tangent. I think
      Klemp isn't use to having his statements questioned and having his
      faults pointed out to him. Yep! The truth does hurt doesn't it! I
      understand. BUT, someone has to point out the truth on behalf of the
      fearful silent Eckists.

      [HK] "In a law-laden society, such as burdens us today, we use all
      the legal safe guards available to us."

      [Me] Well, it sounds like the WITCH hunt is on! HK wants to destroy
      the Eck HERETICS just like the early Christian Church did! Yet,
      weren't the Heretics the true believers and followers of Spiritual
      Truth! The Heretics disagreed with the dogma and guidelines and
      rules that took their church more and more into the material world
      and away from the Spiritual. Klemp has always been more than willing
      to use secular "law" to control and eliminate those Eckists who
      extremely disagree with the direction Eckankar is heading under his
      leadership when demoting or withholding initiations doesn't work.
      This is the exact same path (of "law") that the Catholic Church
      (and others) once took! Will Eckists permit this to happen? Of
      course they will... they are afraid to speak their minds and say
      that this is Not the direction that Love takes... it is the
      direction of Power and of the Kal!

      I'll post the rest of Klemp's answer later.

      Prometheus
    • ctecvie
      Hello Prometheus and all, ... *** There s nothing to communicate nor to understand, Harry - other than the resa structure *is* based on power! So, just save
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 19, 2006
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        Hello Prometheus and all,

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > [Q]: "How does a leader support the conservation (outer
        >guidelines,
        > need for certain approvals, copyrights, etc.) necessary to the
        > survival of Eckankar without dampening the natural enthusiasm of
        > chelas? Another way to say this is, how can we communicate to
        >chelas
        > that the RESA structure is based on love and not power?"

        *** There's nothing to communicate nor to understand, Harry - other
        than the resa structure *is* based on power! So, just save your
        energy because it's not complicated at all to understand that.
        >
        > [Me] Actually, the RESA structure is based on power! It is a
        > hierarchy and has a pecking order. There are guidelines that keep
        > certain "types" of Eckists in line, in part, to protect the
        > copyrights and non-profit status of the Corporation. This is also
        > why Eckists can pay or "donate" any amount they want in regards to
        > membership or in attending seminars. A non-profit organization can
        > lose their non-profit status by charging "fees" for religious
        > memberships and religious seminars and Must Accept Any Amount Of
        > Money As A Donation.

        *** Eckists like to donate because they think that that way, they
        can buy happiness ever after! It's no different than the Middle Age
        payments that were made to make people's sins forgiven. One of my
        very good eckist friends donated regularly every month even if he
        didn't know how to pay his monthly dues - but he said that as long
        as he had money, he wanted to give to the temple because that would
        keep the money flowing. Well, it did so for sure!
        >
        > [HK] "We're doing our level best to keep the ECK teachings in the
        > purest state possible, despite all of the Kal's attempt's to erode
        > them. I could go on for pages about all the variations that
        >already
        > try to creep in now due to differences in cultures, words with
        > different shades of meaning in other languages, and honest
        > misinterpretations of the Everlasting Gospel of ECK. Those are
        > unintentional. Nothing much can be done about that."

        *** No it can't Harry, because you are one of those who "pollute"
        the teachings! Well, they were not pure from the beginning - so I
        wonder if they *can* be polluted at all! LOL!
        >
        > [Me] "Everlasting Gospel?" Klemp just can't let go of his Luthern
        > roots can he! Who are the "We're" or we are? Does the LEM/Mahanta
        > need help? It seems the LEM/Mahanta is powerless when he states
        > that "Nothing much can be done about that." Afterall, doesn't the
        > Kal rule the lower planes? As the Kal's agent Klemp is well aware
        >of
        > this!
        >
        > [HK] "BUT there are also deliberate attempts to twist the sacred
        > writings by misusing or citing ECK information for the purpose of
        > destroying people's trust in the teachings of ECK. We can do
        > something about that."

        *** Yes you can deny those fake initiations! Or tell people subtly
        that any contact to "detractors" is Not desired!
        >
        > [Me] Pointing out Klemp's hypocrisy when he still uses "BUT"
        >or "IF"
        > just shows that he isn't what he claims! There is no "twist"
        >except
        > to point out the deceptions and contradictions. The accusation
        > of "misusing" Eck information is bogus since the intent is to give
        > another perspective, that tends to conflict with the cult's dogma,
        > but also leads to knowledge and understanding and truth. However,
        > didn't the Eckist's question have to do with protecting copyrights
        > by having Eckists follow guidelines and how to get that message
        > across by using love instead of power! It seems that the
        >questioning
        > of the Klempster's authority is making him Very Angry!

        *** Well, as somebody just told me recently, isn't that a cult
        attribute? Not to question anything, especially not the leaders?

        > HK is getting
        > away from the original question and going off on a tangent. I
        >think
        > Klemp isn't use to having his statements questioned and having his
        > faults pointed out to him. Yep! The truth does hurt doesn't it! I
        > understand. BUT, someone has to point out the truth on behalf of
        >the
        > fearful silent Eckists.

        *** Well, you better not question HK, the mahanta! Or you won't get
        those fake initiations any more (am I repeating myself?? LOL!) and
        won't be able to socialize with eckists as you were used to! But
        wait - of course eckists don't gather for a social purpose! They
        gather solely for spiritual purposes! LOL!
        >
        > [HK] "In a law-laden society, such as burdens us today, we use all
        > the legal safe guards available to us."
        >
        > [Me] Well, it sounds like the WITCH hunt is on! HK wants to
        >destroy
        > the Eck HERETICS just like the early Christian Church did! Yet,
        > weren't the Heretics the true believers and followers of Spiritual
        > Truth! The Heretics disagreed with the dogma and guidelines and
        > rules that took their church more and more into the material world
        > and away from the Spiritual. Klemp has always been more than
        >willing
        > to use secular "law" to control and eliminate those Eckists who
        > extremely disagree with the direction Eckankar is heading under
        >his
        > leadership when demoting or withholding initiations doesn't work.
        > This is the exact same path (of "law") that the Catholic Church
        > (and others) once took! Will Eckists permit this to happen? Of
        > course they will... they are afraid to speak their minds and say
        > that this is Not the direction that Love takes... it is the
        > direction of Power and of the Kal!

        *** Yes of course it will happen, and of course eckists will let it
        happen - followers always let it happen in the past! It's still too
        early to compare eckankar with the early Christian Church because
        eckankar is only 40 years old! But the older it will get, the more
        it will look like any ordinary religion, and the more it will shut
        up "heretic" members - whatever means it will take!

        Ingrid
      • prometheus_973
        [Q]: How does a leader support the conservation (outer guidelines, need for certain approvals, copyrights, etc.) necessary to the survival of Eckankar without
        Message 3 of 3 , Feb 19, 2006
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          [Q]: "How does a leader support the conservation (outer guidelines,
          need for certain approvals, copyrights, etc.) necessary to the
          survival of Eckankar without dampening the natural enthusiasm of
          chelas? Another way to say this is, how can we communicate to chelas
          that the RESA structure is based on love and not power?"

          (continued)
          [HK] "Times change. It was safe in the 1930s for people to leave
          their homes unlocked, day or night. There was little crime of the
          sort that happens in society today. This is a world of illusion, no
          doubt."

          [Me] Actually, most people in Canada, today, don't lock their doors
          when they leave the house unattended or at night when they are
          asleep! They will Not even lock their doors AFTER having burglars
          (theives) enter their homes and steal their possessions at night
          while they are sleeping!

          [HK] "Yet the greatest illusion of some people is that it's not
          necessary to tie up their camels IF they trust in God."

          [Me] "Yet the greatest illusion of some people" is that Eckankar is
          believable. To bring this old saying up-to-date is to say, Lock up
          your car AND trust in God!

          [HK] "People who insist upon working outside the legal structure of
          society or ECKANKAR may be dreamers who are simply out of touch with
          the times. Or, they could be active agents for the Kal, the negative
          force."

          [Me] What is Klemp talking about! I know that this is a threat of
          sorts but to whom? Perhaps, this involves those Eckists (heretics)
          who do Not follow the guidelines. I spoke to one very high ranking
          Eckist, of the high inner circle let's say, that told me that they
          don't follow guidelines! I was shocked! And sure enough, I watched
          and saw that this person did things that were in direct opposition
          to the Eck guidelines. Yet, no one even questioned any of it! Most
          Eckists just don't care to know all of the outer organizational crap
          anyway. I now realize that they were just expressing their own
          Spiritual Freedom and Mastership. Anyone who stands in the way of
          Soul's Spiritual Freedom and Mastership is an agent for the Kal/LEM!

          [HK] "Others will know by their own inner experiences, or by your
          outer examples too, that the ECK hierarchy has its basis in the love
          and power of God, not man."

          [Me] No, the hierarchy is based on Power and Kal (God) fear tactics
          or threats which Klemp does Not hesitate to use! [In Eckankar the
          SUGMAD and "God" are Not the same.]

          [HK] "To keep up the chelas enthusiasm in the face of the necessary
          guidelines, try to make the whole process as simple and painless as
          you can. Also send ideas for simplification to the ECKANKAR
          Spiritual Center (ESC) to see where there is a better way to handle
          the legal necessities. All will benefit from good ideas."

          [Me] So Eckists are to "send ideas for simplification" for "a better
          way to handle the legal necessities" in following guidelines to the
          ESC! Well, let me give this a shot even though I'm Not an Eckist!
          First, censor Doug Marman and then shut down HU-Chat and Chela Chat
          and the other "unofficial" Eckankar Internet sites. This would be
          great damage control and a spiritual technique, of sorts, to restore
          greater ignorance and harmony to the Eckankar teachings. <smile>

          Prometheus
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