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Re: Klemp the anti environmentalist

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  • mishmisha9
    Hello, Freefrom and All! It really is too bad that people in general and chelas in particular are buying into the theory that the next world is going to be so
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 12, 2006
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      Hello, Freefrom and All!

      It really is too bad that people in general and chelas in particular
      are buying into the theory that the next world is going to be so
      much better than the one we are experiencing now. There is as you
      say a rush to get out of here, instead of learning how to better
      navigate in and be a part of this one! It's sort of the old
      adage "the grass is always greener," so we believe the next world,
      the one we are not presently in, must be much better! But how does
      one know this, and even if it is true, why do we have to consider
      this world a trash can? I know it is not a perfect world--but do we
      really need this world to be perfect, as long as we are aware of the
      imperfections and try to work on improving?

      I believe that Soul is Eternal. Being in the present is the Eternal
      as far as I am concerned. It is where I always will be! The mahanta
      only offers deliverance from this world, and offers nothing for
      living now. The mahanta can't help Souls in this world so why
      believe that he is going to link anyone up to the next? The mahanta
      is basically negating the wonderful experiences one can have in the
      here and now.

      I spoke to an old friend today who is going through some very
      difficult times. She chose a situation that really has become a
      nightmare experience. She sees little improvement before a few more
      years pass, and then there is still the uncertainly of how it will
      be then. Of course, we can't any of us be sure of the future, but it
      seems nothing will change quickly for her situation and she
      recognizes this probability. Since she wanted something very much in
      the past and got it, and it didn't turn out well, she ended the
      conversation by saying it is true, "be careful what you wish for."
      Likewise, IMO, one should be careful in "wishing" beyond this
      present life and hoping for "deliverance from this world" via the
      false promises of the mahanta or anyone else. I am so glad that I am
      no longer a member of eckankar; therefore, I didn't instruct her in
      singing "HU!" LOL!

      The false Wizard (Wizard of Oz), once his gig was up, explained to
      the Scarecrow why he didn't need to be given more brains--one just
      needs to use the brains one has for better discrimination. The
      Terrible (Humbug) Oz said, "You are learning something every day. A
      baby has brains, but it doesn't know much. Experience is the only
      thing that brings knowledge, and the longer you are on earth the
      more experience you are sure to get." The Scarecrow was under the
      delusion that he didn't have a brain--those who follow a false
      master are under the delusion of needing a master. The
      l.e.m./mahanta and the Wizard of Oz both devised ways to "help"
      others and in so doing created their own nice worlds. Like the
      Wizard of Oz, the l.e.m./mahanta has no real powers--but the
      difference between these two is that the Oz confessed when found out
      that he was no wizard and had no special powers; while Klemp still
      needs to confess to the lies and deceptions that he continues to
      sell to his followers! The curtain concealing the truth about
      eckankar has been opened for all to see, but many continue to turn a
      blind eye! They believe that they should be delivered from this
      world via the mahanta--these chelas are in a rush to leave. Why,
      because the mahanta can do nothing to help improve their lives and
      social conditions here! : )

      Mish

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
      <eckchains@...> wrote:

      LEM and mahanta just other words for APATHY!

      Mish quotes from Those Wonderful Eck Masters:

      From page 228: "Your Freedom Is My Reward"
      "The mission of the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master is unlike those
      of the saviours sent by the Kal (the negative power), who come to
      improve social and political conditions.
      The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master comes simply to free Souls from
      karma and reincarnation. . . .
      So the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master offers deliverance from this
      world instead of improved social or living conditions within it.
      Such is the Mahanta's unconditional love for Soul. . . . "

      ***THis is so much like some of the christian evangelicals and other
      hypocritial religious fanatics. LOL This world is just the "ash can"
      of the universe. There is no real love and compassion (let alone
      "UNconditional Love) in eckankar, and don't expect anything from
      Harry on that note either. Just like any con, the bottom line is
      always, how does he come out on top by increasing his own income at
      the expense of yours!(CONditional Love)lol MOre like THOSE
      FICTITIOUS ICK MASTERS. GG

      I did a quick internet search on the evangelicals and rather quickly
      found this one, explaining how for them, the environment and
      compassion for others, really doesn't matter, only getting the hell
      out of here. Of course, you must have the politically correct
      religious beliefs.lol It seems klemp and they have a lot in common!

      Here's a quote from this site that definately shows the similarities.
      IMHO, you would have to be blind not to see it. <sigh>

      http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/environment.html

      "Much of the misinformation that Christianity is anti-environmental
      came from some widely publicized statements by professing Christians.
      For example, James Watt, who became U.S. Secretary of the Interior
      under Ronald Reagan in the early 1980s, in his article, "Ours Is the
      Earth,"2 and other articles, made it clear that he viewed the earth
      as "merely a temporary way station on the road to eternal life...The
      earth was put here by the Lord for His people to subdue and to use
      for profitable purposes on their way to the hereafter."3"

      I haven't really studied the site, just found this quote to be very
      interesting and revealing. <smile> HOw ironic, or is moronic? gg

      FreeFrom
      >
    • Elizabeth
      ... the ... Hi Mish, Just curious about what else this chapter might say about The Mahanta, the LEM has the ability and the authority to alter an individual s
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 22, 2006
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        >
        > Also from page 232: "The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master also has
        the
        > ability and the authority to alter an individual's fate."
        >


        Hi Mish,

        Just curious about what else this chapter might say about "The
        Mahanta, the LEM has the ability and the authority to alter an
        individual's fate". Could you share a little further on what this
        section says?

        Does Klump give himself a way out of this statement, if a healing
        doesn't take place for example? Does he claim sometimes he has to let
        an individual experience their karma...

        And another question, is there anything in this book where Klump says
        something about how HI's are like a flock of geese flying in
        formation. When one HI has a problem, a brave stronger HI will fly
        out of formation to help the other?

        Since my mother's health is deteriating as each day passes, she sits
        and waits for Harold to heal her from her disease! So if this so
        called LEM has the ability and the authority to alter an individual's
        fate, why has it taken him 15 years to even acknowledge and heal her?
        (or should I say my mother to acknowledge he isn't that all knowing,
        all powerful Mahanta he proclaims to be.)

        Quotes from his books such as this, is what keeps some hard core
        eckist hanging on to, and expecting a healing from the godman of the
        universe. Just another carrot on a string.... WAKE UP PEOPLE, HAROLD
        IS A FAKE!!!
      • mishmisha9
        Hello, Liz! And Everyone! Liz, I m sorry to be so slow in responding to your questions. I ve been a little bit busy lately and haven t had much time to keep up
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 2 7:19 PM
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          Hello, Liz! And Everyone!

          Liz, I'm sorry to be so slow in responding to your questions. I've
          been a little bit busy lately and haven't had much time to keep up
          with the posts here. Finally, today, I was able to go back to the
          chapter in Klemp's newest book you're asking about--"Those Wonderful
          ECK Masters," Chapter 11, entitled "The Mahanta, the Living ECK
          Master--A Modern Prophet SRI HAROLD KLEMP (Wah Z)," pages 201-240,
          by Harold Klemp.

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
          <ewickings@...> wrote:


          Also from page 232: "The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master also has
          the ability and the authority to alter an individual's fate."



          Hi Mish,

          Liz asks: Just curious about what else this chapter might say
          about "The Mahanta, the LEM has the ability and the authority to
          alter an individual's fate". Could you share a little further on
          what this section says?

          Mish: from pages, 232-233, "The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master also
          has the ability and authority to alter an individual's fate. This,
          of course, is a remarkable benefit. The Master will adjust the
          individual's destiny at certain levels of spiritual unfoldment. In
          this way, excess karma can be burned off in the dream state. So do
          your spiritual exercises. Avoid many unpleasant karmic repayments.
          And soon, your Book of Records will see the Master's notation 'Paid
          in full.'"

          Klemp is promising that karmic debt will be burned off if the chela
          does the the spiritual exercises.

          #####

          Liz asks: Does Klump give himself a way out of this statement, if a
          healing doesn't take place for example? Does he claim sometimes he
          has to let an individual experience their karma...

          Mish: on page 239, Klemp writes, "A Soul in pursuit of spiritual
          revelation may not ever shirk Its responsibilities. Who should care
          most whether you practice the spiritual exercises that the Master
          entrusts to you? You know the answer. The answer is in your hands."
          So, it seems to me that Klemp promises things but if the chela is
          unsuccessful, it is the chela's fault. Klemp is always in a win-win
          position, and can do no wrong. Only the chelas can make mistakes.
          LOL!

          ######

          Liz asks: And another question, is there anything in this book where
          Klump says something about how HI's are like a flock of geese flying
          in formation. When one HI has a problem, a brave stronger HI will
          fly out of formation to help the other?

          Mish: I don't recall reading anything about a flock of geese in this
          book, but I do recall reading it else where. : )

          ######

          Liz writes: Since my mother's health is deteriating as each day
          passes, she sits and waits for Harold to heal her from her disease!
          So if this so called LEM has the ability and the authority to alter
          an individual's fate, why has it taken him 15 years to even
          acknowledge and heal her? (or should I say my mother to acknowledge
          he isn't that all knowing, all powerful Mahanta he proclaims to be.)

          Mish: 15 years is certainly a long time for a devoted follower to
          wait for a healing! On page 210, Klemp writes this, "The Inner
          Master welcomes you in the dream state and speaks to you like an old
          friend. He offers the spiritual help most appropriate that very
          hour. It certainly is a claim that no pastor, priest, or rabbi would
          dare to make. Help for the hour is truly one of the chief benefits
          of the inner teachings of ECK." Klemp is very bold to make such a
          statement, especially in light of the fact that your mother is still
          waiting and deteriating as she waits. Where is this Master who
          claims to have such abilities to "help for the hour?" It appears it
          has been many, many hours--years for your mother who so firmly
          believes in the eckcrap! This, to me, is truly the crime of eckankar-
          -the false promises and hopes.

          ####

          Liz writes: Quotes from his books such as this, is what keeps some
          hard core eckist hanging on to, and expecting a healing from the
          godman of the universe. Just another carrot on a string.... WAKE UP
          PEOPLE, HAROLD IS A FAKE!!!

          Mish: Definitely, Harold is a fake! In Chapter 12, "Your Spiritual
          Destiny A Star of God," pages 241-274, Klemp writes several stories
          involving spiritual healings. Most of these stories involved some
          physical ailment or problem. These problems supposedly stemmed from
          past life experiences. Once the Master showed the chela the source
          of the past life problem, the karmic baggage, the chela was able
          to "heal" in this lifetime. One chela had suffered from leg problems
          most of her life. Here's how she was healed using the spiritual
          exercises of eck, from pages 260-261, "Two days after she'd written
          her spiritual report to the Mahanta asking for help to understand
          that feeling of inferiority, her ankle began to heal at last. . . .
          The Master's response to her letter, which she'd written but not yet
          mailed, . . . He'd let her see a key past life that gave meaning to
          what seemed like undue pain and drudgery in the present. . . .It is
          ever true that healings occur easiest in an atmosphere of
          love. . . ."

          So, this is just one "success" stories of Harold's abilities to help
          chelas with their problems. Even though, the chela did not mail the
          letter to Harold, the chela believed that he received in on the
          inner and thus did the healing. Harold was given credit for helping
          this chela, and Harold has no problem in using this delusional
          chela's story to substantiate and help promote his lies about his
          god-like abilities. And yet, Harold states, "I am well aware of my
          limitations." In other words, is Harold saying he knows he's a fake,
          but yet he can't help himself from being the liar he is!!! This
          entire book helps to feed the narcissitic personality of the writer,
          in my opinion! It is unfortunate, Liz, that chelas, like your
          mother,have allowed their health and well-being to suffer from the
          belief in the false teachings of ECK. I'm sure that it has brought a
          lot of heartache to all the family members who watch the control
          that Klemp and company have on your mother.


          >

          Mish
        • mishmisha9
          ... let ... says ... sits ... individual s ... her? ... knowing, ... the ... HAROLD ... Hi, Liz and All! I wanted to pull up this post again, because Liz asked
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 17 12:54 PM
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            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
            <ewickings@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > Also from page 232: "The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master also has
            > the
            > > ability and the authority to alter an individual's fate."
            > >
            >
            >
            > Hi Mish,
            >
            > Just curious about what else this chapter might say about "The
            > Mahanta, the LEM has the ability and the authority to alter an
            > individual's fate". Could you share a little further on what this
            > section says?
            >
            > Does Klump give himself a way out of this statement, if a healing
            > doesn't take place for example? Does he claim sometimes he has to
            let
            > an individual experience their karma...
            >
            > And another question, is there anything in this book where Klump
            says
            > something about how HI's are like a flock of geese flying in
            > formation. When one HI has a problem, a brave stronger HI will fly
            > out of formation to help the other?
            >
            > Since my mother's health is deteriating as each day passes, she
            sits
            > and waits for Harold to heal her from her disease! So if this so
            > called LEM has the ability and the authority to alter an
            individual's
            > fate, why has it taken him 15 years to even acknowledge and heal
            her?
            > (or should I say my mother to acknowledge he isn't that all
            knowing,
            > all powerful Mahanta he proclaims to be.)
            >
            > Quotes from his books such as this, is what keeps some hard core
            > eckist hanging on to, and expecting a healing from the godman of
            the
            > universe. Just another carrot on a string.... WAKE UP PEOPLE,
            HAROLD
            > IS A FAKE!!!
            >


            Hi, Liz and All!

            I wanted to pull up this post again, because Liz asked some very
            good questions about healings in eck and how eckists look for help
            from the master! : )

            In the Introduction, page 1, in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," Klemp
            wrote the following:

            ". . . First of all, who are these ECK Masters? What do they do?
            What about people who've benefited by their help?

            And the really big question: What can they do for you?

            The purpose of this book is to answer these questions. You'll learn
            about the wonderful ECK Masters, who they are, and what they've
            already done for others like you. You'll read the real-life stories
            of people who've received assistance with health issues, personal
            concerns, and even finances. Above all, these ECK Masters hold the
            key to love, wisdom, and spiritual freedom."

            What a sale's pitch, huh? LOL! Harold is suggesting to people that
            their health, personal and financial problems will be helped by the
            ECK Masters and eckankar. How misleading and deceptive is this? No
            wonder your mother, Liz, is looking to the master to heal her! How
            many others are being hurt by these false promises! I'm sure this
            Introduction will lure some unsuspecting readers in--they'll buy the
            book, so it's a win for eckankar money wise, and if the reader
            really buys into the crap, the reader will be signing up for
            membership and writing a nice check with the hopes that he/she, too,
            will benefit from the teachings of eck, as suggested by HK's "humble
            volume" that shines "like a beacon to guide" Souls "to God's secret
            kingdom" . . . yada, yada! : )

            Mish
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