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Klemp the anti environmentalist

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  • Freefrom
    LEM and mahanta just other words for APATHY! Mish quotes from Those Wonderful Eck Masters: From page 228: Your Freedom Is My Reward The mission of the
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 12, 2006
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      LEM and mahanta just other words for APATHY!

      Mish quotes from Those Wonderful Eck Masters:

      From page 228: "Your Freedom Is My Reward"
      "The mission of the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master is unlike those
      of the saviours sent by the Kal (the negative power), who come to
      improve social and political conditions.
      The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master comes simply to free Souls from
      karma and reincarnation. . . .
      So the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master offers deliverance from this
      world instead of improved social or living conditions within it.
      Such is the Mahanta's unconditional love for Soul. . . . "

      ***THis is so much like some of the christian evangelicals and other
      hypocritial religious fanatics. LOL This world is just the "ash can"
      of the universe. There is no real love and compassion (let alone
      "UNconditional Love) in eckankar, and don't expect anything from Harry
      on that note either. Just like any con, the bottom line is always, how
      does he come out on top by increasing his own income at the expense of
      yours!(CONditional Love)lol MOre like THOSE FICTITIOUS ICK MASTERS. GG

      I did a quick internet search on the evangelicals and rather quickly
      found this one, explaining how for them, the environment and
      compassion for others, really doesn't matter, only getting the hell
      out of here. Of course, you must have the politically correct
      religious beliefs.lol It seems klemp and they have a lot in common!

      Here's a quote from this site that definately shows the similarities.
      IMHO, you would have to be blind not to see it. <sigh>

      http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/environment.html

      "Much of the misinformation that Christianity is anti-environmental
      came from some widely publicized statements by professing Christians.
      For example, James Watt, who became U.S. Secretary of the Interior
      under Ronald Reagan in the early 1980s, in his article, "Ours Is the
      Earth,"2 and other articles, made it clear that he viewed the earth as
      "merely a temporary way station on the road to eternal life...The
      earth was put here by the Lord for His people to subdue and to use for
      profitable purposes on their way to the hereafter."3"

      I haven't really studied the site, just found this quote to be very
      interesting and revealing. <smile> HOw ironic, or is moronic? gg

      FreeFrom


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
      <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
      >
      > Prometheus wrote in his post: Re Eckankar: 12/2005 H.I. Letter
      > #3 . . . Do As I Say Not As I Do:
      >
      > "I remember once back in the mid '80s that HK was talking at a
      > Spiritual Laws Seminar and was taking questions from the audience.
      > One woman just gushed all over him as though she was talking to
      > Jesus. Klemp scolded her for doing this. I thought that this was
      > just tough love and a good way to get the message out and let chelas
      > know that the LEM/Mahanta was Not to be worshipped. Now, it seems
      > that Klemp was just showing his nasty side that has always been
      > there.
      >
      > Anymore, there seems to be a subtle shift in HK's old Mahanta
      > non-worship message. Eckankar's Mahanta is seen as the chosen one
      > and the special incarnation of the Sugmad. It is still said,
      > however, that Sugmad is Not to be worshipped either. However, why
      > did Klemp create the Eck Worship Service (EWS) if there is No
      > worship of some diety?
      >
      > The truth is Klemp wants to be worshipped on the Inner Planes and
      > admired and placed above reproach on the physical while saying he's
      > just like you and me! See how he twists words and confuses Eckists!
      > Just give Klemp the litmus test of comparing him to a combination of
      > Jesus and Ghandi! Just make the comparison of a Jesus/Ghandi and now
      > look at Klemp and his words. Would Jesus and/or Ghandi behave this
      > way and call their followers or anyone "losers?" Remember too, this
      > Mahanta Consciousness is supposed to be above God-Realization and is
      > reported, by Klemp, to be the highest consciousness ever! Does
      > anyone else see something wrong with Klemp's PR spin and the reality
      > of it all?! Me thinks, Something is rotten in Chanhassen! <smile>"
      >
      > *********************************************************
      >
      > Hello, All!
      >
      > I found Prometheus' comments quite interesting in light of what I
      > have been reading in Harold Klemp's book "Those Wonderful ECK
      > Masters." In the chapter of the book (chapter 11) devoted to "The
      > Mahanta, the Living ECK Master--A Modern Prophet, SRI HAROLD KLEMP
      > (Wah Z), page 201, Klemp wrote, "I am well aware of my limitations."
      > This is a one sentence paragraph at the beginning of the chapter. He
      > does not share what any of those limitations are, but goes on in the
      > next breath to write in the following paragraph, "Nevertheless,
      > there are two parts of the Master: the Outer Master and the Inner
      > Master. . . . " So, so much for true confessions! LOL!
      >
      > However, Klemp does not mind describing how he is so superior to
      > mankind in general as revealed in some of his further comments in
      > this very revealing Chapter about Master Klemp!
      >
      > From page 205: "The Mahanta is the highest state of consciousness
      > known to the chronicles of mankind. . . . "
      >
      > From page 214: "You have only to seek the Mahanta, today's Living
      > ECK Master. He is God's elect."
      >
      > From page 232: "Think of the Mahanta as the Personalized ECK."
      >
      > Also from page 232: "The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master also has the
      > ability and the authority to alter an individual's fate."
      >
      > It seems that Klemp is an all powerful being, doesn't it, but
      > following in the tradition of Paul Twitchell, he wrote in Chapter 10
      > of this book that discusses PT, that the L.E.M./Mahanta is not to be
      > worshipped, as Prometheus mentions in his post cited above. But yet
      > how can you not help but worship a so powerful, "God's elect" being?
      > Pretty difficult, isn't it to not adore HK!! : )
      >
      > Anyway, I am still wondering about those limitations that Klemp
      > claims he is well aware of but yet will not share with his chelas. I
      > guess he wouldn't want them to think less of him! LOL! However,
      > I will cite some additional passages from the same chapter of the
      > book that provide insight into what Klemp means by his limitations--
      > (remember how disjointed HK's talks are?--well, he writes the same
      > way, and we just have to piece it all together, and oh, what fun
      > that is! : ) )
      >
      > From page 228: "Your Freedom Is My Reward"
      > "The mission of the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master is unlike those
      > of the saviours sent by the Kal (the negative power), who come to
      > improve social and political conditions.
      > The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master comes simply to free Souls from
      > karma and reincarnation. . . .
      > So the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master offers deliverance from this
      > world instead of improved social or living conditions within it.
      > Such is the Mahanta's unconditional love for Soul. . . . "
      >
      > So, Klemp's limitations are that he can do nothing for chelas right
      > now! Okay . . . But he promises that he can deliver Souls from this
      > world--this is what he says he can do, but how does he prove this
      > power?? Again, those who believe in the Eck teachings are really
      > just basing it all on faith and belief. There is no proof that Klemp
      > and these other fake eck masters can deliver anything, other than in
      > the imaginations of the suggestible chelas' minds.
      >
      > At the end of each chapter in this book, there is a spiritual
      > exercise that is supposed to help the reader to meet the ECK Master
      > discussed in that chapter. In Chapter 6, on Rebazar Tarzs, page 117,
      > Klemp follows up the spiritual exercise with this suggestion to the
      > reader, "At first you may feel you have met Rebazar or one of the
      > ECK Masters only in your imagination. But with time and practice,
      > you will find they are real people just like you." So, Klemp is
      > saying eventually you will become delusional and brainwashed as he
      > is in believing these fake masters are real! It is clearly stated by
      > Klemp, isn't it?? But yet, the uncareful readers will not see this
      > and will swear that they have had experiences and meetings with
      > these imagined eck masters! They will fantasize this in their minds
      > until it all seems true to them and thus they develop their belief.
      >
      > I agree with Prometheus that the intent of the eckankar leadership
      > (Klemp) is to confuse the chelas so that the e-cult remains intact
      > and secure to benefit Klemp in his delusion and scam.
      >
      > Mish
      >
    • mishmisha9
      Hello, Freefrom and All! It really is too bad that people in general and chelas in particular are buying into the theory that the next world is going to be so
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 12, 2006
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        Hello, Freefrom and All!

        It really is too bad that people in general and chelas in particular
        are buying into the theory that the next world is going to be so
        much better than the one we are experiencing now. There is as you
        say a rush to get out of here, instead of learning how to better
        navigate in and be a part of this one! It's sort of the old
        adage "the grass is always greener," so we believe the next world,
        the one we are not presently in, must be much better! But how does
        one know this, and even if it is true, why do we have to consider
        this world a trash can? I know it is not a perfect world--but do we
        really need this world to be perfect, as long as we are aware of the
        imperfections and try to work on improving?

        I believe that Soul is Eternal. Being in the present is the Eternal
        as far as I am concerned. It is where I always will be! The mahanta
        only offers deliverance from this world, and offers nothing for
        living now. The mahanta can't help Souls in this world so why
        believe that he is going to link anyone up to the next? The mahanta
        is basically negating the wonderful experiences one can have in the
        here and now.

        I spoke to an old friend today who is going through some very
        difficult times. She chose a situation that really has become a
        nightmare experience. She sees little improvement before a few more
        years pass, and then there is still the uncertainly of how it will
        be then. Of course, we can't any of us be sure of the future, but it
        seems nothing will change quickly for her situation and she
        recognizes this probability. Since she wanted something very much in
        the past and got it, and it didn't turn out well, she ended the
        conversation by saying it is true, "be careful what you wish for."
        Likewise, IMO, one should be careful in "wishing" beyond this
        present life and hoping for "deliverance from this world" via the
        false promises of the mahanta or anyone else. I am so glad that I am
        no longer a member of eckankar; therefore, I didn't instruct her in
        singing "HU!" LOL!

        The false Wizard (Wizard of Oz), once his gig was up, explained to
        the Scarecrow why he didn't need to be given more brains--one just
        needs to use the brains one has for better discrimination. The
        Terrible (Humbug) Oz said, "You are learning something every day. A
        baby has brains, but it doesn't know much. Experience is the only
        thing that brings knowledge, and the longer you are on earth the
        more experience you are sure to get." The Scarecrow was under the
        delusion that he didn't have a brain--those who follow a false
        master are under the delusion of needing a master. The
        l.e.m./mahanta and the Wizard of Oz both devised ways to "help"
        others and in so doing created their own nice worlds. Like the
        Wizard of Oz, the l.e.m./mahanta has no real powers--but the
        difference between these two is that the Oz confessed when found out
        that he was no wizard and had no special powers; while Klemp still
        needs to confess to the lies and deceptions that he continues to
        sell to his followers! The curtain concealing the truth about
        eckankar has been opened for all to see, but many continue to turn a
        blind eye! They believe that they should be delivered from this
        world via the mahanta--these chelas are in a rush to leave. Why,
        because the mahanta can do nothing to help improve their lives and
        social conditions here! : )

        Mish

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
        <eckchains@...> wrote:

        LEM and mahanta just other words for APATHY!

        Mish quotes from Those Wonderful Eck Masters:

        From page 228: "Your Freedom Is My Reward"
        "The mission of the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master is unlike those
        of the saviours sent by the Kal (the negative power), who come to
        improve social and political conditions.
        The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master comes simply to free Souls from
        karma and reincarnation. . . .
        So the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master offers deliverance from this
        world instead of improved social or living conditions within it.
        Such is the Mahanta's unconditional love for Soul. . . . "

        ***THis is so much like some of the christian evangelicals and other
        hypocritial religious fanatics. LOL This world is just the "ash can"
        of the universe. There is no real love and compassion (let alone
        "UNconditional Love) in eckankar, and don't expect anything from
        Harry on that note either. Just like any con, the bottom line is
        always, how does he come out on top by increasing his own income at
        the expense of yours!(CONditional Love)lol MOre like THOSE
        FICTITIOUS ICK MASTERS. GG

        I did a quick internet search on the evangelicals and rather quickly
        found this one, explaining how for them, the environment and
        compassion for others, really doesn't matter, only getting the hell
        out of here. Of course, you must have the politically correct
        religious beliefs.lol It seems klemp and they have a lot in common!

        Here's a quote from this site that definately shows the similarities.
        IMHO, you would have to be blind not to see it. <sigh>

        http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/environment.html

        "Much of the misinformation that Christianity is anti-environmental
        came from some widely publicized statements by professing Christians.
        For example, James Watt, who became U.S. Secretary of the Interior
        under Ronald Reagan in the early 1980s, in his article, "Ours Is the
        Earth,"2 and other articles, made it clear that he viewed the earth
        as "merely a temporary way station on the road to eternal life...The
        earth was put here by the Lord for His people to subdue and to use
        for profitable purposes on their way to the hereafter."3"

        I haven't really studied the site, just found this quote to be very
        interesting and revealing. <smile> HOw ironic, or is moronic? gg

        FreeFrom
        >
      • Elizabeth
        ... the ... Hi Mish, Just curious about what else this chapter might say about The Mahanta, the LEM has the ability and the authority to alter an individual s
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 22, 2006
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          >
          > Also from page 232: "The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master also has
          the
          > ability and the authority to alter an individual's fate."
          >


          Hi Mish,

          Just curious about what else this chapter might say about "The
          Mahanta, the LEM has the ability and the authority to alter an
          individual's fate". Could you share a little further on what this
          section says?

          Does Klump give himself a way out of this statement, if a healing
          doesn't take place for example? Does he claim sometimes he has to let
          an individual experience their karma...

          And another question, is there anything in this book where Klump says
          something about how HI's are like a flock of geese flying in
          formation. When one HI has a problem, a brave stronger HI will fly
          out of formation to help the other?

          Since my mother's health is deteriating as each day passes, she sits
          and waits for Harold to heal her from her disease! So if this so
          called LEM has the ability and the authority to alter an individual's
          fate, why has it taken him 15 years to even acknowledge and heal her?
          (or should I say my mother to acknowledge he isn't that all knowing,
          all powerful Mahanta he proclaims to be.)

          Quotes from his books such as this, is what keeps some hard core
          eckist hanging on to, and expecting a healing from the godman of the
          universe. Just another carrot on a string.... WAKE UP PEOPLE, HAROLD
          IS A FAKE!!!
        • mishmisha9
          Hello, Liz! And Everyone! Liz, I m sorry to be so slow in responding to your questions. I ve been a little bit busy lately and haven t had much time to keep up
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 2 7:19 PM
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            Hello, Liz! And Everyone!

            Liz, I'm sorry to be so slow in responding to your questions. I've
            been a little bit busy lately and haven't had much time to keep up
            with the posts here. Finally, today, I was able to go back to the
            chapter in Klemp's newest book you're asking about--"Those Wonderful
            ECK Masters," Chapter 11, entitled "The Mahanta, the Living ECK
            Master--A Modern Prophet SRI HAROLD KLEMP (Wah Z)," pages 201-240,
            by Harold Klemp.

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
            <ewickings@...> wrote:


            Also from page 232: "The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master also has
            the ability and the authority to alter an individual's fate."



            Hi Mish,

            Liz asks: Just curious about what else this chapter might say
            about "The Mahanta, the LEM has the ability and the authority to
            alter an individual's fate". Could you share a little further on
            what this section says?

            Mish: from pages, 232-233, "The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master also
            has the ability and authority to alter an individual's fate. This,
            of course, is a remarkable benefit. The Master will adjust the
            individual's destiny at certain levels of spiritual unfoldment. In
            this way, excess karma can be burned off in the dream state. So do
            your spiritual exercises. Avoid many unpleasant karmic repayments.
            And soon, your Book of Records will see the Master's notation 'Paid
            in full.'"

            Klemp is promising that karmic debt will be burned off if the chela
            does the the spiritual exercises.

            #####

            Liz asks: Does Klump give himself a way out of this statement, if a
            healing doesn't take place for example? Does he claim sometimes he
            has to let an individual experience their karma...

            Mish: on page 239, Klemp writes, "A Soul in pursuit of spiritual
            revelation may not ever shirk Its responsibilities. Who should care
            most whether you practice the spiritual exercises that the Master
            entrusts to you? You know the answer. The answer is in your hands."
            So, it seems to me that Klemp promises things but if the chela is
            unsuccessful, it is the chela's fault. Klemp is always in a win-win
            position, and can do no wrong. Only the chelas can make mistakes.
            LOL!

            ######

            Liz asks: And another question, is there anything in this book where
            Klump says something about how HI's are like a flock of geese flying
            in formation. When one HI has a problem, a brave stronger HI will
            fly out of formation to help the other?

            Mish: I don't recall reading anything about a flock of geese in this
            book, but I do recall reading it else where. : )

            ######

            Liz writes: Since my mother's health is deteriating as each day
            passes, she sits and waits for Harold to heal her from her disease!
            So if this so called LEM has the ability and the authority to alter
            an individual's fate, why has it taken him 15 years to even
            acknowledge and heal her? (or should I say my mother to acknowledge
            he isn't that all knowing, all powerful Mahanta he proclaims to be.)

            Mish: 15 years is certainly a long time for a devoted follower to
            wait for a healing! On page 210, Klemp writes this, "The Inner
            Master welcomes you in the dream state and speaks to you like an old
            friend. He offers the spiritual help most appropriate that very
            hour. It certainly is a claim that no pastor, priest, or rabbi would
            dare to make. Help for the hour is truly one of the chief benefits
            of the inner teachings of ECK." Klemp is very bold to make such a
            statement, especially in light of the fact that your mother is still
            waiting and deteriating as she waits. Where is this Master who
            claims to have such abilities to "help for the hour?" It appears it
            has been many, many hours--years for your mother who so firmly
            believes in the eckcrap! This, to me, is truly the crime of eckankar-
            -the false promises and hopes.

            ####

            Liz writes: Quotes from his books such as this, is what keeps some
            hard core eckist hanging on to, and expecting a healing from the
            godman of the universe. Just another carrot on a string.... WAKE UP
            PEOPLE, HAROLD IS A FAKE!!!

            Mish: Definitely, Harold is a fake! In Chapter 12, "Your Spiritual
            Destiny A Star of God," pages 241-274, Klemp writes several stories
            involving spiritual healings. Most of these stories involved some
            physical ailment or problem. These problems supposedly stemmed from
            past life experiences. Once the Master showed the chela the source
            of the past life problem, the karmic baggage, the chela was able
            to "heal" in this lifetime. One chela had suffered from leg problems
            most of her life. Here's how she was healed using the spiritual
            exercises of eck, from pages 260-261, "Two days after she'd written
            her spiritual report to the Mahanta asking for help to understand
            that feeling of inferiority, her ankle began to heal at last. . . .
            The Master's response to her letter, which she'd written but not yet
            mailed, . . . He'd let her see a key past life that gave meaning to
            what seemed like undue pain and drudgery in the present. . . .It is
            ever true that healings occur easiest in an atmosphere of
            love. . . ."

            So, this is just one "success" stories of Harold's abilities to help
            chelas with their problems. Even though, the chela did not mail the
            letter to Harold, the chela believed that he received in on the
            inner and thus did the healing. Harold was given credit for helping
            this chela, and Harold has no problem in using this delusional
            chela's story to substantiate and help promote his lies about his
            god-like abilities. And yet, Harold states, "I am well aware of my
            limitations." In other words, is Harold saying he knows he's a fake,
            but yet he can't help himself from being the liar he is!!! This
            entire book helps to feed the narcissitic personality of the writer,
            in my opinion! It is unfortunate, Liz, that chelas, like your
            mother,have allowed their health and well-being to suffer from the
            belief in the false teachings of ECK. I'm sure that it has brought a
            lot of heartache to all the family members who watch the control
            that Klemp and company have on your mother.


            >

            Mish
          • mishmisha9
            ... let ... says ... sits ... individual s ... her? ... knowing, ... the ... HAROLD ... Hi, Liz and All! I wanted to pull up this post again, because Liz asked
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 17 12:54 PM
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              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
              <ewickings@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > Also from page 232: "The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master also has
              > the
              > > ability and the authority to alter an individual's fate."
              > >
              >
              >
              > Hi Mish,
              >
              > Just curious about what else this chapter might say about "The
              > Mahanta, the LEM has the ability and the authority to alter an
              > individual's fate". Could you share a little further on what this
              > section says?
              >
              > Does Klump give himself a way out of this statement, if a healing
              > doesn't take place for example? Does he claim sometimes he has to
              let
              > an individual experience their karma...
              >
              > And another question, is there anything in this book where Klump
              says
              > something about how HI's are like a flock of geese flying in
              > formation. When one HI has a problem, a brave stronger HI will fly
              > out of formation to help the other?
              >
              > Since my mother's health is deteriating as each day passes, she
              sits
              > and waits for Harold to heal her from her disease! So if this so
              > called LEM has the ability and the authority to alter an
              individual's
              > fate, why has it taken him 15 years to even acknowledge and heal
              her?
              > (or should I say my mother to acknowledge he isn't that all
              knowing,
              > all powerful Mahanta he proclaims to be.)
              >
              > Quotes from his books such as this, is what keeps some hard core
              > eckist hanging on to, and expecting a healing from the godman of
              the
              > universe. Just another carrot on a string.... WAKE UP PEOPLE,
              HAROLD
              > IS A FAKE!!!
              >


              Hi, Liz and All!

              I wanted to pull up this post again, because Liz asked some very
              good questions about healings in eck and how eckists look for help
              from the master! : )

              In the Introduction, page 1, in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," Klemp
              wrote the following:

              ". . . First of all, who are these ECK Masters? What do they do?
              What about people who've benefited by their help?

              And the really big question: What can they do for you?

              The purpose of this book is to answer these questions. You'll learn
              about the wonderful ECK Masters, who they are, and what they've
              already done for others like you. You'll read the real-life stories
              of people who've received assistance with health issues, personal
              concerns, and even finances. Above all, these ECK Masters hold the
              key to love, wisdom, and spiritual freedom."

              What a sale's pitch, huh? LOL! Harold is suggesting to people that
              their health, personal and financial problems will be helped by the
              ECK Masters and eckankar. How misleading and deceptive is this? No
              wonder your mother, Liz, is looking to the master to heal her! How
              many others are being hurt by these false promises! I'm sure this
              Introduction will lure some unsuspecting readers in--they'll buy the
              book, so it's a win for eckankar money wise, and if the reader
              really buys into the crap, the reader will be signing up for
              membership and writing a nice check with the hopes that he/she, too,
              will benefit from the teachings of eck, as suggested by HK's "humble
              volume" that shines "like a beacon to guide" Souls "to God's secret
              kingdom" . . . yada, yada! : )

              Mish
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