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Re: From a.r.e.: Can You Imagine Paul Twitchell on the Oprah Show?

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  • mishmisha9
    Hello, All! Thank you Ingrid for reposting from A.R.E., Mr. Peabody s Buddy s Can You Imagine Paul Twitchell on the Oprah Show? I have enjoyed this post as
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 1, 2006
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      Hello, All!

      Thank you Ingrid for reposting from A.R.E., Mr. Peabody's
      Buddy's "Can You Imagine Paul Twitchell on the Oprah Show?" I have
      enjoyed this post as well as Prometheus' comments, both which follow
      this reply post!

      I checked earlier today, and discovered interesting discussions
      taking place on A.R.E. on the thread there. David Lane and Doug
      Marmon are having an exchange along with a few others, so if you
      haven't read over there recently, you might enjoy this topic.

      Hopefully, you can pull it up directly with this link:

      http://www.talkaboutreligion.com/alt.religion.eckankar/message/224934
      .html

      Since Paul Twitchell is no longer among us, I guess it is not
      plausible for him to be interviewed by Oprah; however, Klemp, as his
      rod bearer, could come out of his reclusive hole, and explain it all
      to Oprah. LOL! Klemp has been weaving quite a web of tangled tales
      in order to keep the eck lies and deceptions covered up and hidden
      from the seekers/chelas.

      From "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," pages 181-184, in Klemp's own
      words, ponder the following,from Chapter 10, "American Cliff Hanger
      and Founder of Eckankar Paul Twitchell (Peddar Zaskq)" Klemp writes
      (rehashes):

      (Referring to Twitchell) "A trial of outrageous tales surrounds this
      unique Master from Paducah, Kentucky, but every activity and
      experience from youth on was drawing him ever closer to the bosom of
      the ECK (Holy Spirit) to serve Its cause.
      In Late 1956 or early 1957 Paul had the experience of God recorded
      in his book 'The Tiger's Fang.'
      Yet, if he had truly touched the face of God as early as 1956, some
      may wonder why it took till 1965, another nine years, for him to
      become the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master. It's quite simple. One's
      habits and emotions build up over the years and although
      consciousness may take the lead, the individual's emotions can take
      awhile to play catch-up. . . . " (pages 181-182)

      "Paul's early efforts to present the teachings of ECK began well
      before he coined the words ECK and Eckankar to serve that purpose.
      He launched his mission at the humble roots, with weekly lectures to
      small groups of fifteen to thirty people at the California
      Parapsychology Foundation in southern California.
      In those days, Paul referred to Soul Travel as bilocation. It was,
      he said, the best way to reach the Supreme Oneness. He was trying to
      express the grandeur of the Sugmad, the Supreme Being, and taught
      that the way to It was through the Voice of God. We call this voice
      the ECK (Holy Spirit). . . . " (page 182)

      "Paul was learning to be his own best drumbeater as early as the
      1930's. Any time he achieved the smallest thing of note, he'd fire
      off a flurry of press releases or letters about it. Some would call
      him a shameless self-promoter; however, he was picking up the art of
      how to catch the public's eye.
      So without knowing the reason, Paul was urged to fine-tune his self-
      promotion. He learned to advertise himself in every possible way and
      in general was preparing for the future when he could turn his
      talent to promoting the books and articles on Eckankar and present
      it to the real God seekers in every corner of the world. . . . "
      (page 183)

      "The ECK teachings have been here since man's earliest history, but
      without the name of Eckankar. They have existed under various names
      in different eras because of the danger of presenting the pure
      teachings in public. But conditions have changed today. . . . "
      (page 183)

      "A Master Compiler
      The high teachings of ECK had been scattered to the four corners of
      the earth. Different religions held bits and pieces of them, but
      they had attached their own conditions, or strings . . .
      Paul's task was to gather the time-tested bits and pieces of the
      most accurate parts of what had been given in the past. In a sense,
      he became a master compiler.
      He collected the golden teachings scattered about the globe and
      rendered them into a single body of teachings, that made them
      readily available to all. " (page 184)

      ### So there we have it, Klemp's defense and explanations of how
      Twitchell began the eckankar religion! Klemp sure makes a lot of
      assumptions, doesn't he? And he expects the Chelas to lap it up! LOL!

      Mish




      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

      Frey, Twitchell and Klemp only express a "truthiness." They are
      really just pathological liars! Here's a quote (pg.1) from the
      introduction of "The Tiger's Fang" by Paul Twitchell to give some
      insight about his distortions of truth: [Thanks Doug]

      *******************************************************************
      "The book came out of personal experience. What is written on these
      pages is not as important as the recording of those worlds that few
      Souls, other than the saints, have ever visited."

      [Me] So Paul is saying that what he embellished isn't as important
      as his listing of the God Worlds that only the "saints (versus Eck
      Masters) have ever visited."

      "Some will say this book is the wild fantasy of a highly developed
      imagination, but one must understand that there is nothing in the
      worlds of God without some degree of truth. Even fantasy is cast out
      of the material cloth of God, so how can fantasy be a complete
      untruth?"

      [Me]"So how can fantasy be a complete untruth?" Well Paul, if only
      the Pure and Posttive can exist in the true reality of the God
      Worlds then untruth (lies) and fantasy (fiction) could Not! There
      are only "degrees of truth" within the lower worlds! Twitch is just
      trying to issue a disclaimer of sorts, although, Eckists tend to
      overlook his own words which give a heads up. The Tiger's Fang was
      probably done as a combination novel and stepping stone to become
      the Radhasoami rep for the U.S. until Twitch decided to use it,
      years later, for his new religious/vocation. Frey's book was first
      being presented as fiction until it was suggested that it be
      published as nonfiction. Mo money!

      "This statement should stagger the mind of man and shake the
      foundation of the teachings of orthodox religions, philosophies, and
      metaphysics. However, I am prepared to make my statements based on
      pure experience, and one must remember that all experiences are
      unique only to the experiencer."

      {Me] PT's double-talk is that a lie contains partial truth! Nope
      sorry not buying it! Only a pathological liar like Twitch would make
      that statement! I do agree, however, that all memories are based on
      experiences and perception. We can make and change anything into
      what we want it to be. If one wants to use imagination and fantasy
      for writing fiction then this is acceptable when the reader is aware
      of this. It is interesting to explore such thoughts of fantasy for a
      reader. Non-fiction is interesting too although memories, we know,
      can't always be precise. However, lies are still lies and fiction is
      not truth!
      *******************************************************************

      It should be noted that Twitchell changed his Master Kirpal Singh's
      name to Rebazar Tarzs. And that Eck, Mahanta, and Sugmad were made
      up in order for Eckists not to associate these concepts with
      preconceived and learned facsimiles. Therefore, these are not
      exclusive or unique truths, or ancient! And, these words carry their
      own dogmatic misconceptions anyway! Generally, 'a rose is still a
      rose by any other name.' Personal experience is still what one makes
      of it, and should depend upon truth and not fantasy or delusion.
      Also, the creation of Rebazar, and other Eck Masters, is fundamental
      to the entire foundation of belief in Eckankar. Even Doug Marman has
      said that Twitchell changed Kirpal's name in The Tiger's Fang. So
      what Master's name did Twitch use in place of Kirpal's? Hmmmmmm. It
      was Rebazar! And, Twitch also used "Sudar" in place of Kirpal!

      Yes, Twitch would be like a deer caught in the headlights on Oprah!
      LOL! Actually, he'd lied for so many years that the confrontation
      might bring out even more goofyness as with Frey. These are very
      imbalanced people! As above so below... HK should know! LOL!

      Prometheus >>
      >

      <<ctecvie wrote:

      Hello everybody,

      lately on a.r.e. ... :-)
      Ingrid

      ***********************
      Can You Imagine Paul Twitchell on the Oprah Show? LOL...
      by "Mr. Peabody's Buddy" <bud136@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jan 26, 2006 at
      10:23 AM


      Updated: 12:52 PM EST
      Oprah Calls Defense of Author 'a Mistake'
      TV Talk Host Says James Frey 'Betrayed Millions of People'

      By EDWARD WYATT, The New York Times

      CHICAGO (Jan. 26) - In an extraordinary reversal of her strident and
      angry defense of the author whose book she catapulted to the top of
      the best-seller list, Oprah Winfrey said today she believed that the
      author James Frey "betrayed millions of people" by making up
      elements of his life in his best-selling memoir, "A Million Little
      Pieces."


      So, in spite of Doug Marmon and his cadre of Paul Twitchell
      Apologists, it appears reasonable people have a BIG problem with
      authors presenting fiction as fact.

      Paul Twitchell betrayed thousands but, unlike Mr. Frey's current
      trouble, his lies have gone uncorrected by him or his successors.
      The Eckankar religionists are guilty of collusion and coverup when
      it comes to the tawdry story of one of the 20th Century's most
      notorious liars...Paul Twitchell.

      Is it just a matter of time in this age of blogs before somebody like
      The Smoking Gun gets wind of the millions Eckankar has made off the
      lies of Paul Twitchell? Or is the story so small and unimportant that
      the general public could care less? Is this how Eckankar has survived
      for 40 years, by being so fringe-of-the-fringe that it flies under
      the radar of the truth-loving majority?

      Stay tuned...
      >
    • prometheus_973
      If Twitchell was just a master compiler as Klemp states then he was Not anything else. PT was just doing research like an investigative reporter doing a
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 2, 2006
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        If Twitchell was just a "master compiler" as Klemp states then he
        was Not anything else. PT was just doing research like an
        investigative reporter doing a story. However, do reporters ever
        make embellishments? Hmmmmmmm? I think so! Gail (33 years younger
        and second wife) inspired Twitch to go commercial with The Tiger's
        Fang manuscript that was returned to him by Kirpal Singh in 1966.
        Kirpal didn't like the manuscript because he recognized it as a
        novel with too many embellishments. Some are okay due to one's
        individual perception, however, this was just too much!

        How does a reporter and fiction writer become the MASTER OF ALL
        UNIVERSES! LOL! Eckankar is fiction mixed with myth and mixed with
        other religious dogma. It's all really that simple! Except for one
        thing! Soul or God-Soul or the Higher Self and SPIRIT will
        communicate with us regardless of our beliefs. On the other hand IT
        will only do so in ways our minds can accept! Eckankar just takes
        credit for the latter! Therefore, Klemp only inherited a fictional
        account of Twitchell's "experiences" that are only unique for
        Twitchell! How does that make Klemp a "master" of anything? It
        doesn't! <smile> The Eckankar con keeps working due to more and more
        delusional crap being piled on constantly. Just don't jump from any
        bridges! There's a limit to stupidity!

        Prometheus

        mishmisha wrote:

        Hello, All!

        Thank you Ingrid for reposting from A.R.E., Mr. Peabody's
        Buddy's "Can You Imagine Paul Twitchell on the Oprah Show?" I have
        enjoyed this post as well as Prometheus' comments, both which follow
        this reply post!

        I checked earlier today, and discovered interesting discussions
        taking place on A.R.E. on the thread there. David Lane and Doug
        Marmon are having an exchange along with a few others, so if you
        haven't read over there recently, you might enjoy this topic.

        Hopefully, you can pull it up directly with this link:


        http://www.talkaboutreligion.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/message/
        224934.html

        Since Paul Twitchell is no longer among us, I guess it is not
        plausible for him to be interviewed by Oprah; however, Klemp, as his
        rod bearer, could come out of his reclusive hole, and explain it all
        to Oprah. LOL! Klemp has been weaving quite a web of tangled tales
        in order to keep the eck lies and deceptions covered up and hidden
        from the seekers/chelas.

        From "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," pages 181-184, in Klemp's own
        words, ponder the following,from Chapter 10, "American Cliff Hanger
        and Founder of Eckankar Paul Twitchell (Peddar Zaskq)" Klemp writes
        (rehashes):

        (Referring to Twitchell) "A trial of outrageous tales surrounds this
        unique Master from Paducah, Kentucky, but every activity and
        experience from youth on was drawing him ever closer to the bosom of
        the ECK (Holy Spirit) to serve Its cause. In Late 1956 or early 1957
        Paul had the experience of God recorded in his book 'The Tiger's
        Fang.' Yet, if he had truly touched the face of God as early as
        1956, some may wonder why it took till 1965, another nine years, for
        him to become the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master. It's quite simple.
        One's habits and emotions build up over the years and although
        consciousness may take the lead, the individual's emotions can take
        awhile to play catch-up. . . . " (pages 181-182)

        "Paul's early efforts to present the teachings of ECK began well
        before he coined the words ECK and Eckankar to serve that purpose.
        He launched his mission at the humble roots, with weekly lectures to
        small groups of fifteen to thirty people at the California
        Parapsychology Foundation in southern California. In those days,
        Paul referred to Soul Travel as bilocation. It was, he said, the
        best way to reach the Supreme Oneness. He was trying to express the
        grandeur of the Sugmad, the Supreme Being, and taught that the way
        to It was through the Voice of God. We call this voice the ECK (Holy
        Spirit). . . . " (page 182)

        "Paul was learning to be his own best drumbeater as early as the
        1930's. Any time he achieved the smallest thing of note, he'd fire
        off a flurry of press releases or letters about it. Some would call
        him a shameless self-promoter; however, he was picking up the art of
        how to catch the public's eye. So without knowing the reason, Paul
        was urged to fine-tune his self-promotion. He learned to advertise
        himself in every possible way and in general was preparing for the
        future when he could turn his talent to promoting the books and
        articles on Eckankar and present it to the real God seekers in every
        corner of the world. . . . " (page 183)

        "The ECK teachings have been here since man's earliest history, but
        without the name of Eckankar. They have existed under various names
        in different eras because of the danger of presenting the pure
        teachings in public. But conditions have changed today. . . . "
        (page 183)

        "A Master Compiler The high teachings of ECK had been scattered to
        the four corners of the earth. Different religions held bits and
        pieces of them, but they had attached their own conditions, or
        strings . . . Paul's task was to gather the time-tested bits and
        pieces of the most accurate parts of what had been given in the
        past. In a sense, he became a master compiler. He collected the
        golden teachings scattered about the globe and rendered them into a
        single body of teachings, that made them readily available to all. "
        (page 184)

        ### So there we have it, Klemp's defense and explanations of how
        Twitchell began the eckankar religion! Klemp sure makes a lot of
        assumptions, doesn't he? And he expects the Chelas to lap it up! LOL!

        Mish


        prometheus wrote:

        Frey, Twitchell and Klemp only express a "truthiness." They are
        really just pathological liars! Here's a quote (pg.1) from the
        introduction of "The Tiger's Fang" by Paul Twitchell to give some
        insight about his distortions of truth: [Thanks Doug]

        *******************************************************************
        [PT] "The book came out of personal experience. What is written on
        these pages is not as important as the recording of those worlds
        that few Souls, other than the saints, have ever visited."

        [Me] So Paul is saying that what he embellished isn't as important
        as his listing of the God Worlds that only the "saints (versus Eck
        Masters) have ever visited."

        [PT] "Some will say this book is the wild fantasy of a highly
        developed imagination, but one must understand that there is nothing
        in the worlds of God without some degree of truth. Even fantasy is
        cast out of the material cloth of God, so how can fantasy be a
        complete untruth?"

        [Me]"So how can fantasy be a complete untruth?" Well Paul, if only
        the Pure and Posttive can exist in the true reality of the God
        Worlds then untruth (lies) and fantasy (fiction) could Not! There
        are only "degrees of truth" within the lower worlds! Twitch is just
        trying to issue a disclaimer of sorts, although, Eckists tend to
        overlook his own words which give a heads up. The Tiger's Fang was
        probably done as a combination novel and stepping stone to become
        the Radhasoami rep for the U.S. until Twitch decided to use it,
        years later, for his new religious vocation. Frey's book was first
        being presented as fiction until it was suggested that it be
        published as nonfiction. Mo money!

        [PT] "This statement should stagger the mind of man and shake the
        foundation of the teachings of orthodox religions, philosophies, and
        metaphysics. However, I am prepared to make my statements based on
        pure experience, and one must remember that all experiences are
        unique only to the experiencer."

        [Me] PT's continues his double-talk that a lie contains partial
        truth! Nope sorry not buying it! This is Not a paradox! However,
        there may be some facts mixed in with fiction to make a lie more
        believeable. Only a pathological liar like Twitch would make that
        statement and mix the two in order to confuse the issue! I do agree,
        however, that all memories are based on experiences and perception.
        We can make and change anything into what we want it to be. If one
        wants to use imagination and fantasy for writing fiction then this
        is acceptable when the reader is aware of this. It is interesting to
        explore such thoughts of fantasy for a reader. Non-fiction is
        interesting too although memories, we know, can't always be precise.
        However, lies are still lies and fiction is not truth!

        It is interesting that PT states, "ONE MUST REMEMBER THAT ALL
        EXPERIENCES ARE UNIQUE ONLY TO THE EXPERIENCER." IS THIS PAUL'S
        DISCLAIMER TO EVERYTHING HE STATES ABOUT ECKANKAR AND WHAT HE
        IMAGINES IS REAL? ARE THE ECK MASTERS JUST "CHARACTERS" AS JAMES
        FREY ALSO NOW CLAIMS ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE HE WROTE ABOUT!
        *******************************************************************

        It should be noted that Twitchell changed his Master Kirpal Singh's
        name to Rebazar Tarzs. And that Eck, Mahanta, and Sugmad were made
        up in order for Eckists not to associate these concepts with
        preconceived and learned facsimiles. Therefore, these are not
        exclusive or unique truths, or ancient! And, these words carry their
        own dogmatic misconceptions anyway! Generally, 'a rose is still a
        rose by any other name.' Personal experience is still what one makes
        of it, and should depend upon truth and not fantasy or delusion.
        Also, the creation of Rebazar, and other Eck Masters, is fundamental
        to the entire foundation of belief in Eckankar. Even Doug Marman has
        said that Twitchell changed Kirpal's name in The Tiger's Fang. [DOUG
        ALSO MENTIONED (IN A POST ON TRUTHSEEKER.COM} THAT HE THOUGHT
        REBAZAR IS A MYTH] So what Master's name did Twitch use in place of
        Kirpal's? Hmmmmmm. It was Rebazar! And, Twitch also used "Sudar" in
        place of Kirpal!

        Yes, Twitch would be like a deer caught in the headlights on Oprah!
        LOL! Actually, he'd lied for so many years that the confrontation
        might bring out even more goofyness as with Frey. These are very
        imbalanced people! As above so below... HK should know! LOL!

        Prometheus


        ctecvie wrote:

        Hello everybody,

        lately on a.r.e. ... :-)
        Ingrid

        ***********************
        Can You Imagine Paul Twitchell on the Oprah Show? LOL...
        by "Mr. Peabody's Buddy"

        Oprah Calls Defense of Author 'a Mistake'
        TV Talk Host Says James Frey 'Betrayed Millions of People'

        By EDWARD WYATT, The New York Times

        CHICAGO (Jan. 26) - In an extraordinary reversal of her strident and
        angry defense of the author whose book she catapulted to the top of
        the best-seller list, Oprah Winfrey said today she believed that the
        author James Frey "betrayed millions of people" by making up
        elements of his life in his best-selling memoir, "A Million Little
        Pieces."


        So, in spite of Doug Marmon and his cadre of Paul Twitchell
        Apologists, it appears reasonable people have a BIG problem with
        authors presenting fiction as fact.

        Paul Twitchell betrayed thousands but, unlike Mr. Frey's current
        trouble, his lies have gone uncorrected by him or his successors.
        The Eckankar religionists are guilty of collusion and coverup when
        it comes to the tawdry story of one of the 20th Century's most
        notorious liars...Paul Twitchell.

        Is it just a matter of time in this age of blogs before somebody like
        The Smoking Gun gets wind of the millions Eckankar has made off the
        lies of Paul Twitchell? Or is the story so small and unimportant that
        the general public could care less? Is this how Eckankar has survived
        for 40 years, by being so fringe-of-the-fringe that it flies under
        the radar of the truth-loving majority?

        Stay tuned...
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