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Re: From Hu-chat: Is your life getting better or worse?

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  • mishmisha9
    Hi, Ingrid and All! I saw this post as well. I wonder how this person s material yardstick for measuring spiritual growth over a 50 some year lifespan makes
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 7, 2006
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      Hi, Ingrid and All!

      I saw this post as well. I wonder how this person's material
      yardstick for measuring spiritual growth over a 50 some year
      lifespan makes other people (eckists) feel about their own growth--
      especially, if they are struggling in life and don't have it as
      nice? Interesting how some think who they are is reflected by
      what "wealth" they have! Was this learned in the eckankar teachings,
      or is this just an eckist who hasn't learned much about such
      things? : )

      For myself, I appreciate whatever comforts I have achieved after
      many years of hard work, but at the same time, I recognize that
      other people have not accomplished the same ease, but yet, they make
      do as best they can, and they enjoy life just as much as the next
      guy, if not more! What was taught in the "teachings"--was it not to
      have an attitude of gratitude? After all, what does one really need
      in the material sense?--for me, it is a roof over my head, warmth
      and enough to eat to not be perpetually starving. Anything more is
      bonus to be enjoyed.

      But considering the comments by this eckist on huchat, I recall
      attending a worship service in which the h.i. facilitator was
      commenting about the riches and luxurious living that awaited her in
      the heavens/higher planes. She said that knowing that made her
      struggles on this plane much easier to bear. I thought how sad to
      see life that way--and not appreciate the here and now! It seemed to
      me that she was wasting her present life by dreaming about another
      one to come!

      Well, it is nice that the person with the warm garage and nice home
      is happy and appreciative, but as Ingrid points out, so what? Life
      in general has improved for many people through the years--it is not
      unique, and for those who live a little less affluently--it does not
      mean that they are spiritually lagging either! It all has to do with
      attitude and what we appreciate about ourselves!

      Mish

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
      <ctecvie@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear all,
      >
      > this is what I found on huchat not long ago. This eckist tells how
      > her life improved after having joined Eckankar. I will comment
      > directly in the quote.
      >
      > Quote: I was just thinking back, when I grew up in Berlin,
      eternally
      > waiting for the train or the bus, shuttling around forever,
      freezing
      > cold or unbearable hot, waiting on drafty train stations in the
      > middle of the night. Couldn't get out of Berlin without waiting in
      > line for 8 hours at check point Charley. Walking and walking dark
      > scary streets.
      >
      > ***Me: So What? That was the situation 50 years ago (this
      individual
      > is around 50 years old). I can imagine that it was no fun to grow
      up
      > in Berlin at the time. But there were so many more people in the
      > Eastern part of Berlin who certainly had it worse - and they
      > couldn't get over that wall at all!
      >
      > Quote: And now? A warm car in a heated garage with heated seats,
      > driving over a heated driveway and for long distance my own plane
      > and pilot.
      >
      > ***Me: If we take this as a yardstick, many people would be very
      > advanced spiritually because many people nowadays have a warm car
      in
      > a heated garage with heated seats! OK, not everyone has an own
      > plane, but many take a plane nowadays.
      >
      > Quote: The first 27 years I lived in apartments, usually on the
      4th
      > floor without an elevator, after joining Eckankar I lived in
      > comfortable homes overlooking an ocean, a lake or mountains. Right
      > now I am living in a historic home in town, going back to
      lakefront
      > in Minnesota.
      >
      > ***Me: Living in apartments on the 4th floor without elevator is
      not
      > the worst thing that can happen to us! I remember fondly my own
      > apartment in the 4th floor without elevator, bathroom outside and
      > shower in the kitchen! Of course it was not as comfortable as the
      > spacious apartment I live in now, with central heating and
      elevator!
      > But the first time I saw it, I instantly loved it and I knew that
      > this had to be "my" apartment. And I went a long distance to get
      it
      > and fought for it!
      >
      > Quote: Not to mention going from no or only distant friends to
      > family to gobs of people I love and having 7,000 people on my
      > mailing list.Amazing the things you see when you condense 50 years
      > into one paragraph - a different picture!
      >
      > ***Me: Now it seems that we finally made it to the true point,
      > which, in my opinion, should have been mentioned first - the love!
      > The friends, the relationships we have! That is real improvement
      in
      > my view. Not having 7.000 people on our mailing list, but a
      partner
      > we love and trust, and some true and close friends we can share
      our
      > happiness and our darkest hours with.
      >
      > Ingrid
      >
      > PS: Welcome Dolly - I enjoyed your posts a lot and am glad you
      > shared you story and your insights with us. Keep on and let us
      know
      > how it goes!
      >
    • ctecvie
      Hello Mish, Pretujari and all, ... ***** I am convinced that material wealth doesn t necessarily reflect spiritual growth. It s nice to have it, of course. But
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 7, 2006
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        Hello Mish, Pretujari and all,

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
        <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi, Ingrid and All!
        >
        > I saw this post as well. I wonder how this person's material
        > yardstick for measuring spiritual growth over a 50 some year
        > lifespan makes other people (eckists) feel about their own growth--
        > especially, if they are struggling in life and don't have it as
        > nice? Interesting how some think who they are is reflected by
        > what "wealth" they have! Was this learned in the eckankar
        >teachings,
        > or is this just an eckist who hasn't learned much about such
        > things? : )

        ***** I am convinced that material wealth doesn't necessarily
        reflect spiritual growth. It's nice to have it, of course. But it
        doesn't tell a thing about personal happiness. It is very telling,
        at least for me, that immaterial things - things you can't buy range
        third or so on this individual's list! There are people who wouldn't
        like to live in a house because it's too much work or they simply
        aren't interesting in a house because a flat is enough. So why on
        earth would they have a house? And of course there are people for
        whom the reverse is true.

        There are also people who like to live in the city and wouldn't be
        happy in the country, and vice versa. So, one can't really measure
        one by the other. It's completely up to the individual how they want
        to design their personal living space and their material life. What
        is important, besides the love and the relationships, at least for
        me, is to be able to know how to realize my dreams!


        >
        > For myself, I appreciate whatever comforts I have achieved after
        > many years of hard work, but at the same time, I recognize that
        > other people have not accomplished the same ease, but yet, they
        >make
        > do as best they can, and they enjoy life just as much as the next
        > guy, if not more! What was taught in the "teachings"--was it not
        >to
        > have an attitude of gratitude? After all, what does one really
        >need
        > in the material sense?--for me, it is a roof over my head, warmth
        > and enough to eat to not be perpetually starving. Anything more is
        > bonus to be enjoyed.

        *** Exactly. And I have also found out that if I am in a warm
        country, my needs are not the same as at home because I don't have
        to think about heating and warm clothes. This adds enormously to my
        well-being, too!
        >
        > But considering the comments by this eckist on huchat, I recall
        > attending a worship service in which the h.i. facilitator was
        > commenting about the riches and luxurious living that awaited her
        >in
        > the heavens/higher planes. She said that knowing that made her
        > struggles on this plane much easier to bear. I thought how sad to
        > see life that way--and not appreciate the here and now! It seemed
        >to
        > me that she was wasting her present life by dreaming about another
        > one to come!

        *** That was my impression from eckists as well. It's as in the
        Christian church - you wait till the afterlife! What a waste when
        life is here to be enjoyed and to be lived moment by moment!
        >
        > Well, it is nice that the person with the warm garage and nice
        >home
        > is happy and appreciative, but as Ingrid points out, so what? Life
        > in general has improved for many people through the years--it is
        >not
        > unique, and for those who live a little less affluently--it does
        >not
        > mean that they are spiritually lagging either! It all has to do
        >with
        > attitude and what we appreciate about ourselves!

        *** I remember, too, that in my youth autobuses didn't go as
        frequently and were by far not as comfortable than now - so that's a
        development independent of my "spiritual growth".

        Pretujari wrote:

        Hi Ingrid,
        How does this Eckist reconcile spirituality and material wealth in
        the
        case of Prince Siddhartha (Gautama Buddha) who left his princely
        estate
        and palatial comforts to become a pauper, and the enlightenment he
        attained thereafter?
        Pretujari

        ***Very good question, Pretujari! Sometimes material wealth can
        blind us and hinder us to look further, and sometimes the reverse is
        true - in any case, material wealth per se does not say anything
        about the character of the individual nor if he/she is "spiritually
        advanced" (whatever that means) or not.

        Ingrid
      • mishmisha9
        ... is ... is spiritually ... People continue to create yardsticks for success! That is why the initiations are so appealing to many eckists--those who are on
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 7, 2006
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          > Sometimes material wealth can
          > blind us and hinder us to look further, and sometimes the reverse
          is
          > true - in any case, material wealth per se does not say anything
          > about the character of the individual nor if he/she
          is "spiritually
          > advanced" (whatever that means) or not.
          >
          > Ingrid
          >

          People continue to create yardsticks for success! That is why the
          initiations are so appealing to many eckists--those who are on the
          fast track in achieving them! But those who wait years and years for
          this recognition are so hurt and discouraged. It is really tragic,
          because of the trickery involved in giving them out. The faithful
          are being abused by the initiation system.

          As to monetary wealth, have you ever considered what the bigger,
          more generous donations buy an eckist in terms of initiations? I'm
          sure it is noticed! People with professional titles are also on the
          fast initiation track, because they look good as model higher
          initiates! It makes eckankar all so appealing, because "successful"
          people are progressing along its path; therefore, it gives the
          teachings a higher validity. It's a pretty good marketing technique
          even if the head guru "humbly" wears his ugly polester suit costume
          for his big show! : )

          Mish
        • christel_heine2003
          Hi on all! ... commenting about the riches and luxurious living that awaited her in the heavens/higher planes. She said that knowing that made her struggles on
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 7, 2006
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            Hi on all!

            -----------facilitator was
            commenting about the riches and luxurious living that awaited her in
            the heavens/higher planes. She said that knowing that made her
            struggles on this plane much easier to bear. I thought how sad to
            see life that way--and not appreciate the here and now! It seemed to
            me that she was wasting her present life by dreaming about another
            one to come! --------

            this remember on the christian 'paradise' in former times or, in very
            orthodox groups today! IMO, 'the here and now'is the only 'paradise'!
            not only god, but it is! we must attempt to realise it as good!
            that's all.
            greetings and a good 2006 christel









            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
            <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi, Ingrid and All!
            >
            > I saw this post as well. I wonder how this person's material
            > yardstick for measuring spiritual growth over a 50 some year
            > lifespan makes other people (eckists) feel about their own growth--
            > especially, if they are struggling in life and don't have it as
            > nice? Interesting how some think who they are is reflected by
            > what "wealth" they have! Was this learned in the eckankar
            teachings,
            > or is this just an eckist who hasn't learned much about such
            > things? : )
            >
            > For myself, I appreciate whatever comforts I have achieved after
            > many years of hard work, but at the same time, I recognize that
            > other people have not accomplished the same ease, but yet, they
            make
            > do as best they can, and they enjoy life just as much as the next
            > guy, if not more! What was taught in the "teachings"--was it not to
            > have an attitude of gratitude? After all, what does one really need
            > in the material sense?--for me, it is a roof over my head, warmth
            > and enough to eat to not be perpetually starving. Anything more is
            > bonus to be enjoyed.
            >
            > But considering the comments by this eckist on huchat, I recall
            > attending a worship service in which the h.i. facilitator was
            > commenting about the riches and luxurious living that awaited her
            in
            > the heavens/higher planes. She said that knowing that made her
            > struggles on this plane much easier to bear. I thought how sad to
            > see life that way--and not appreciate the here and now! It seemed
            to
            > me that she was wasting her present life by dreaming about another
            > one to come!
            >
            > Well, it is nice that the person with the warm garage and nice home
            > is happy and appreciative, but as Ingrid points out, so what? Life
            > in general has improved for many people through the years--it is
            not
            > unique, and for those who live a little less affluently--it does
            not
            > mean that they are spiritually lagging either! It all has to do
            with
            > attitude and what we appreciate about ourselves!
            >
            > Mish
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
            > <ctecvie@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Dear all,
            > >
            > > this is what I found on huchat not long ago. This eckist tells
            how
            > > her life improved after having joined Eckankar. I will comment
            > > directly in the quote.
            > >
            > > Quote: I was just thinking back, when I grew up in Berlin,
            > eternally
            > > waiting for the train or the bus, shuttling around forever,
            > freezing
            > > cold or unbearable hot, waiting on drafty train stations in the
            > > middle of the night. Couldn't get out of Berlin without waiting
            in
            > > line for 8 hours at check point Charley. Walking and walking dark
            > > scary streets.
            > >
            > > ***Me: So What? That was the situation 50 years ago (this
            > individual
            > > is around 50 years old). I can imagine that it was no fun to grow
            > up
            > > in Berlin at the time. But there were so many more people in the
            > > Eastern part of Berlin who certainly had it worse - and they
            > > couldn't get over that wall at all!
            > >
            > > Quote: And now? A warm car in a heated garage with heated seats,
            > > driving over a heated driveway and for long distance my own plane
            > > and pilot.
            > >
            > > ***Me: If we take this as a yardstick, many people would be very
            > > advanced spiritually because many people nowadays have a warm car
            > in
            > > a heated garage with heated seats! OK, not everyone has an own
            > > plane, but many take a plane nowadays.
            > >
            > > Quote: The first 27 years I lived in apartments, usually on the
            > 4th
            > > floor without an elevator, after joining Eckankar I lived in
            > > comfortable homes overlooking an ocean, a lake or mountains.
            Right
            > > now I am living in a historic home in town, going back to
            > lakefront
            > > in Minnesota.
            > >
            > > ***Me: Living in apartments on the 4th floor without elevator is
            > not
            > > the worst thing that can happen to us! I remember fondly my own
            > > apartment in the 4th floor without elevator, bathroom outside and
            > > shower in the kitchen! Of course it was not as comfortable as the
            > > spacious apartment I live in now, with central heating and
            > elevator!
            > > But the first time I saw it, I instantly loved it and I knew that
            > > this had to be "my" apartment. And I went a long distance to get
            > it
            > > and fought for it!
            > >
            > > Quote: Not to mention going from no or only distant friends to
            > > family to gobs of people I love and having 7,000 people on my
            > > mailing list.Amazing the things you see when you condense 50
            years
            > > into one paragraph - a different picture!
            > >
            > > ***Me: Now it seems that we finally made it to the true point,
            > > which, in my opinion, should have been mentioned first - the
            love!
            > > The friends, the relationships we have! That is real improvement
            > in
            > > my view. Not having 7.000 people on our mailing list, but a
            > partner
            > > we love and trust, and some true and close friends we can share
            > our
            > > happiness and our darkest hours with.
            > >
            > > Ingrid
            > >
            > > PS: Welcome Dolly - I enjoyed your posts a lot and am glad you
            > > shared you story and your insights with us. Keep on and let us
            > know
            > > how it goes!
            > >
            >
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