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6836Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Contradictions Are What Helps ECKankar Work

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  • Janice Pfeiffer
    Feb 4, 2014
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      Thank you Russ for your posting.  It echoes the kinds of things I have been thinking since leaving the org.  I must say although I don't have the kinds of mystical experiences that I had in the org, I do think that I see more than ever about myself and others.  It does have a feeling of waking up.  Since the org, I am amused that the org emphasizes waking up but really it feels like you are being pounded with the idea of closing your self off from everything but the lies and manipulation of the org.  What I got was that there supposedly is nothing worth while outside of the org.   And it is those on the outside who supposedly are the deceivers.  I know that when I found the org, I was still wanting something bigger than me to guide me.  And I thought the org was it.  I did not see the org as producing the kinds of things that it claimed it did.  When I looked at the people who had been in the org a long, long time, they seemed stale and lacking in understanding.  They appeared like a bunch of dead heads.  I remember now how hard it was to check out an experience because the lem would discourage you from sharing your experiences and even if it appeared to be an inner experience with others, there was absolutely no way to get verification that there was anything real about it.  Finally, instead of seeing highly advanced beings among members as described in the books, they were more childish and more of everything I viewed as negative traits.  I did not find any value for truth in members. In fact, just the opposite.  The local center seemed to be constantly over shadowed by lies and gossip.  They all told things about each other and it appeared they wanted gossipy stuff on the new people.  I finally left when I got the whole truth about initiations and how they came about.  They were based on the same gossip the centers ran on.  At that point, the org had nothing to offer me.  They had nothing better than what you can find in any other org across the US.  Excuse me, I mean any org that is not based on ideals.  In short, it was my experience that new people are made to feel bad if they don't become lying, two faced individuals who had not the ability to think for themselves.  I am grateful for my state since leaving the org and I feel it is a direct result of having experienced what I did but I am sure it is far from what the org would have me experience.  I don't look back really but I do feel that some part of me will always wish there was some spiritual org worth believing in.  I know I am on my own now and the most I can hope for is an occasional recognition of a likeness in thought like I saw when reading your post.  Yes, I also feel you do have to reach a level of trust based on nothing but the belief in the lem and the org.  To me it is total brain washing and that's all.  Thanks again.   

      From: "russrodnick@..." <russrodnick@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, February 4, 2014 12:38 AM
      Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Contradictions Are What Helps ECKankar Work
      Hello Prometheus,

      I just got to your reply, and I hadn't thought through the topic of religion and its leaders though I know we are all influenced by various religions from childhood, hence it is relevant. There is such a spectrum to religious experiences that it seems true to me that the very word conjures up different meanings. Meanings, which are internal ideas, feelings, images, etc. The whole field, I think is subjective. 

      Trust is perhaps the commodity (weird word to relate to trust, I know) that makes religion work. 

      Do you know of Gurdjieff? Some said he wasn't spiritual because he had various affairs, was constantly asking for money and could be really abusive. However, one of his ideas was that we are asleep and when someone "wakes up" they can see themselves and others more clearly. I think, this idea that we are asleep accounts for the dual nature of people hence, a person can be spiritual in one moment but lustful, greedy or whatever in the next. We are not "one" but many. "Who is thinking and typing this message and how does it feel to be in the body doing this?", is the kind of question I find very interesting. 

      Just thoughts. Thanks for the dialogue.


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