6675Re: Is klemp a psychopath??
- Apr 7, 2013Hello All,
I'm not really sure what
kind of psychopathy Klemp
does have. I'm thinking it's
a few overlapping personality
disorders and mental illness.
He was locked up and then
tricked the psychologist to
get released early. And then
he bragged about it!
Does Klemp have Narcissism
(NPD)? Yes! Borderline Personality
Disorder? Maybe. Arrested
Is he a liar? Absolutely!
HK rationalizes it all away.
He's getting what he wants...
money, admiration, respect,
and sex! Just kidding on that
And, Eckists are getting a
New Age religion that fulfills
their needs and feeds their
egos with those glorious
initiations. If you're weak-minded
like most brain-washed religious
fanatics Eckankar presents
a good fit except for two things.
One flaw is the Mahanta scam
and the other is the Initiation
If these two definitions were
rewritten where the Mahanta
was everyone's OverSoul
and the initiations were
levels acquired within the
Eckankar physical org.
(and nothing "spiritual")
then, this, would be a more
acceptable form of insanity.
But, I've known Eckists with
Bi-polar disorder as well. In
actuality, Eckists are just as
screwed up as any religious
or political fanatic.
And, most Eckists buy into
the New Age mumbo jumbo
of one sort or another and
much of this came from Eckankar's
stay in California with Twitchell,
Gross, and Klemp.
Eckists have no special abilities
or protection than any other
person. They imagine they do
but it's all wishful thinking. Yet,
they pretend they are special
and will see the Mahanta when
they "translate" (their page in
history). The supposed soul
travel and dream travel experiences
are supposed to validate this,
but Christianity has more of
the same kind and even greater
experiences (miracles) than
Eckists.... even healing!
Did you ever see Klemp heal
a blind man as 2nd Initiate
Jesus did? No! Of course not!
Klemp's a fraud!
And, did you know that EMF
affects H.I.s more than lower
initiates (chelas) because the
EK H.I. has "finer vibrations."
LOL! No, it's true! This is what
they actually believe because
they read it and it was told to
them. How gullible, delusional,
I was thinking about why H.I.s
tend to be more fearful of
computers and I realized this
was why... EMF and the finer
vibration story. Then, again,
many H.I.s are older and would
fear computers anyway! They're
Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
Thanks Harrison, I have believed for sometime there must be something wrong with
her but it is hard to face that when nothing you can remember happening in her
developmental life could have created her ways.
Finally, it is hard to cut a loved one out of your life. It helped me to
realize that it really had nothing to do with me although she still looks and
sounds like my child that I love.
You mentioned the lies that break up relationships. I saw some of that too.
A psychopath doesn't love. However, they can be attached to pets, things and
people. They can display affection or kindness but it's not the same emotion
that we feel because they do not have the ability to have this sort of feeling.
I have known a couple of sociopaths who have seemed loving and I know one who
shows affection to her dogs.
A person does not "become" a psychopath through learning or psychological
trauma. As I said, it's a deficit of the brain itself. And there are different
personalities within the psychopathic model. Some are very passive and even
lazy, while others are quite industrious. They can put this industry into
They can be extremely manipulative, but when you don't play along they can go
after you and make your life miserable, including lying to people close to you
to create a rift between you. They are experts at ruining relationships. Instead
of feeling one way or the other, their decisions are more calculated in favor of
what benefits them. For this reason they can seem to have happy relationships.
But this does, or would, change when the relationship no longer benefits them.
In a normal relationship we try to support and offer love to another person even
if it inconveniences us or we "get" nothing out of it. Not so with a psychopath.
It's all about them.
But you would also need to read up on narcissists as well because they are self
centered in the same way and can be misidentified for psychopaths.
Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
>sea creatures like dolphins and manatees. She is an undersea diver. She has two
> Thank you Harrison,
> Would a sociopath love animals? I mean all types. She is especially fond of
kittens she takes loving care of. Most people don't see anything wrong with what
she does. The truth is she is my daughter and I get a lot of abusive treatment
from her. I finally had to put a stop to her angry outbursts. I told her that I
was willing to talk to her about the problems with or with out a therapists. I
got no response. Toward me, her actions still seemed to be to cause me pain
while she still does not admit what she does is wrong. Although, I am finding it
hard to be objective at this time, she comes across like a heartless demon.
Although until about a year ago, we didn't have any problems between us, on
several occasions she went out of her way to get even with people she thought
wronged her. Most people would just move on, she seems to get obsessed with
revenge. When I asked why she wanted to hurt people, she simple said because she
can. She has appeared very fragile since she lost her mate and her job about
the same time. It certainly had nothing to do with me but I feel like I am the
stand in for the people she can't get at for pay back. Recently, I informed my
children and my daughter in law that the doctor thought I had cancer. My son
and loving daughter in law have been with me every step of the way. I simply
got no response from my daughter and I have heard not a word from her at all
although she does stay abreast of what is going on with the other two. Not one
word of comfort or support has she given and looking back, I don't think there
were any times that she ever did offer support. I will get the book and read
it. Any more insight you might have is appreciated. I didn't intend to get
into it because it is a family thing but I need to understand these things.
> Thanks again
> I have extensive experience in this field. I would recommend, for starters,that you read The Sociopath Next Door (Martha Stout, PhD). Sociopaths can make
us doubt ourselves. They are experts at mimicking real emotions because they
have had to learn this behavior from an early age in order to survive in a
normal world. They continue to suck you back into a relationship after
disagreements. They make you feel like "it must be me because he/she seems so
sincere. Surely I must just be too sensitive or judgmental..." The only way to
win against a psychopath is to completely disassociate from them without ever
starting up again. It's all or nothing. They are parasitic to the nth degree.
>narcissists or other sociopaths. Narcissists are similar but do have a degree of
> Further, sociopaths (which is the same thing as psychopaths) often marry
>Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
> >causing me great concern because she may be a sociopath. She was married to an
> > I myself right now, am dealing with a person whose ways and personality is
individual who definitely was a sociopath. From what I read. the victim of a
sociopath once out of the relationship may act like the sociopath because the
pain of what they endured causes them to strike at others and so they use the
same techniques as the sociopath.
> > In short this is an issue that concerns me greatly at this point. I lovethis would be sociopath. I bounce back and forth thinking she is a sociopath to
thinking she is merely acting like one because of the long term exposure to one.
Her actions are painful and detrimental to others for sure. I am having to
create distance with this person because she won't allow healthy interactions
with her and takes every opportunity to maim.
> >know. In this case, it is very hard for me to be objective.
> > All of you who have knowledge in this area, please give to me what you may
> >eckchains@> wrote:
> >Eckankar is Authoritarian, and anyone who joins, is drawn to Authoritarianism at
some level. All of us who joined, did this for a reason that seemed acceptable
at the time, even if we only joined for a short period.
> >Oh, I don't know, it seems that there are different levels of "Sociopath". I'm
not convinced that it is congenital. That would almost be the same as some
religious convictions that claim that there is such a thing as a Satan baby, or
evil spirits, or the "bad seed". I do not know of an MRI that can identify a
Sociopath/Psychopath and that proves that there is a Psychopathic brain from
birth, that predicts "natural born killers", etc..
> >I think it comes from Cultural influences and how children are mistreated. Alice
Miller was able to prove this to a certain extent in her research and writings.
The plasticity of the brain may be a factor. The Nazis came to power, for
example, because beating children was common and accepted, as well as revering
Authority as a great virtue. And yes, the longer one stays in a situation that
is like a gang of thugs, the more they become like the leader and that group, in
this case, klemp, gross, twitchell. Be careful who you choose to hang out with.
If they are bad types, it will start to rub off on you. (tea baggers are a good
example) Free thinking isn't really encouraged in the USA, in spite of the hype.
I'm pretty sure that my involvement in eckankar and other Cults had to do with
being raised to admire authority and believe that you were a good person if you
followed the leader, like a good soldier, and also along with the fear of not
doing so. It takes dedication, compassion, and study to break away from that
mind set, imo. Also, it may take Psychotherapy, or at the very least a group
> >Some people do actually change their bad ways. It is possible and can happen,
imo. I don't think babies are born hating. At the same time, for some, don't
hold your breath. I know of some eckists who sadly will never change, or admit
to having done anything wrong, and will continue on 'til the day they die.
> >When I say "sociopath in training", I am just referring to what happens over
time. The eckist starts to act more and more like the living eck master,
following orders, giving orders, preaching lies, harming others, and so on.
Social Psychology is a good source for understanding how this happens. Who
knows, with brain plasticity there are probably changes. So I don't see this
problem as either/or or black and white thinking. Nurture, imo can have a very
profound effect on even the most difficult child, if done in the right way. The
same may also be true of adults. Our prison system creates more criminals than
it reforms. Unfortunately, we still live in a very not compassionate society,
imo. If we did, perhaps there would not be so many gullible followers in the
first place. (Why? well I don't want to get into a dissertation right now. Maybe
later. :) )
> ><harrisonferrel@> wrote:
> > Non ;)
> > >I think you hit the nail on the head with a couple of things you wrote.
> > >As a lifelong student of psychology, I know that a person identifies with
his/her choices. When people choose to follow eck or any other cult or religion,
they have made a statement that involves a commitment of ego. This compels them
to be ardent missionaries.
> > >Regarding sociopaths in training, there is no such thing. Sociopaths/psychopaths
suffer from a brain malfunction so they cannot be created through experience. It
is primarily a physiological problem and not a psychological one. It seems that
both Twitchell and Klemp could be sociopaths, as are many cult leaders.
> > ><eckchains@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >Yes, I agree. It is one thing to be a follower engaged in "willful ignorance"
and to be the one willfully and knowingly telling lies to deceive others for
personal gain. One is a true Sociopath with no conscience, but at the same time,
followers who perpetuate those lies for decades are just Sociopaths in training,
and depending on their level of involvement, their actions may be just as vile.
What their level of delusion is, I don't know. Perhaps it is just as simple as
pride, in the sense of not being able to admit that they made a mistake. It can
be more difficult for some to walk away and think for themselves and find new
friends. But still.....
> > > >I know that religion in general is a very slippery slope. I was asked by several
people recently if I had a good Easter. Since I had been alerted to where the
word Easter actually comes from, the Goddess Ishtar of fertility with rabbits
and eggs, etc., I got a lot of worried looks when I just said that I enjoyed a
nice day in Nature.
> > > >I also had a really cool conversation with a teenager who was joking around
about having a tarantula on his back. I saw something, and touched it with my
sunglasses thinking it was fake, but a leg moved. He admitted he was just
joking, but that the Tarantula was real and his pet. I asked if it bites and he
said no, holding it on the palm of his hand. He said I could hold it too.
Suddenly, I found myself realizing that this Tarantula, that he got from a Pet
Store, was not just some stupid spider. It was intelligent. I held out my hand
and the Tarantula walked onto the palm of my hand and stood there for about ten
seconds. I was actually thrilled and amazed. Of course, it was a species of
Tarantula that was not poisonous and used to human interaction.
> > > >Well, to say the least, for most, that didn't fit with an adequate Easter
experience. How many billions are actually believing in the goddess Easter (even
pronounced the same way) and don't want to know about the true history of
religions and anthropology. I ate way too much chocolate to try to ignore the
> > > >"harrisonferrel" wrote:
> > > > Non ;)
> > > >
> > > > >Eckankar has everything to do with taking advantage of gullible people looking
to improve themselves (of course there are exceptions). But I find fault with
people who are faced with the facts, which are now readily available all across
the internet, yet continue to live the lie, believe the lies and promote the
> > > > >When I got into the cult many years ago there was no widely spread information
on what a scam it was. David Lane was the only one who exposed eckankar for what
it really is. When the internet became a good tool I was able to find out enough
to make me buy the original books from which twitchell plagiarized. It took me
only a minute of comparing eck writings with those that were stolen to quit the
cult and understand that it was all unreliable nonsense. I determined that Klemp
was either deluded or a psychopath. Now I think it's the latter. How can you
live day in and day out deceiving people if you really have a conscience?
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