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6675Re: Is klemp a psychopath??

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  • prometheus_973
    Apr 7, 2013
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      Hello All,
      I'm not really sure what
      kind of psychopathy Klemp
      does have. I'm thinking it's
      a few overlapping personality
      disorders and mental illness.
      He was locked up and then
      tricked the psychologist to
      get released early. And then
      he bragged about it!

      Does Klemp have Narcissism
      (NPD)? Yes! Borderline Personality
      Disorder? Maybe. Arrested
      Development? Definitely!
      Is he a liar? Absolutely!

      HK rationalizes it all away.
      He's getting what he wants...
      money, admiration, respect,
      and sex! Just kidding on that
      last one!

      And, Eckists are getting a
      New Age religion that fulfills
      their needs and feeds their
      egos with those glorious
      initiations. If you're weak-minded
      like most brain-washed religious
      fanatics Eckankar presents
      a good fit except for two things.
      One flaw is the Mahanta scam
      and the other is the Initiation
      scam.

      If these two definitions were
      rewritten where the Mahanta
      was everyone's OverSoul
      and the initiations were
      levels acquired within the
      Eckankar physical org.
      (and nothing "spiritual")
      then, this, would be a more
      acceptable form of insanity.

      But, I've known Eckists with
      Bi-polar disorder as well. In
      actuality, Eckists are just as
      screwed up as any religious
      or political fanatic.

      And, most Eckists buy into
      the New Age mumbo jumbo
      of one sort or another and
      much of this came from Eckankar's
      stay in California with Twitchell,
      Gross, and Klemp.

      Eckists have no special abilities
      or protection than any other
      person. They imagine they do
      but it's all wishful thinking. Yet,
      they pretend they are special
      and will see the Mahanta when
      they "translate" (their page in
      history). The supposed soul
      travel and dream travel experiences
      are supposed to validate this,
      but Christianity has more of
      the same kind and even greater
      experiences (miracles) than
      Eckists.... even healing!

      Did you ever see Klemp heal
      a blind man as 2nd Initiate
      Jesus did? No! Of course not!
      Klemp's a fraud!

      And, did you know that EMF
      affects H.I.s more than lower
      initiates (chelas) because the
      EK H.I. has "finer vibrations."
      LOL! No, it's true! This is what
      they actually believe because
      they read it and it was told to
      them. How gullible, delusional,
      and arrogant!

      I was thinking about why H.I.s
      tend to be more fearful of
      computers and I realized this
      was why... EMF and the finer
      vibration story. Then, again,
      many H.I.s are older and would
      fear computers anyway! They're
      technologically challenged.

      Prometheus

      Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      Thanks Harrison, I have believed for sometime there must be something wrong with
      her but it is hard to face that when nothing you can remember happening in her
      developmental life could have created her ways.

      Finally, it is hard to cut a loved one out of your life. It helped me to
      realize that it really had nothing to do with me although she still looks and
      sounds like my child that I love.

      You mentioned the lies that break up relationships. I saw some of that too.

      Thanks again

      harrisonferrel wrote:

      A psychopath doesn't love. However, they can be attached to pets, things and
      people. They can display affection or kindness but it's not the same emotion
      that we feel because they do not have the ability to have this sort of feeling.
      I have known a couple of sociopaths who have seemed loving and I know one who
      shows affection to her dogs.

      A person does not "become" a psychopath through learning or psychological
      trauma. As I said, it's a deficit of the brain itself. And there are different
      personalities within the psychopathic model. Some are very passive and even
      lazy, while others are quite industrious. They can put this industry into
      revenge.

      They can be extremely manipulative, but when you don't play along they can go
      after you and make your life miserable, including lying to people close to you
      to create a rift between you. They are experts at ruining relationships. Instead
      of feeling one way or the other, their decisions are more calculated in favor of
      what benefits them. For this reason they can seem to have happy relationships.
      But this does, or would, change when the relationship no longer benefits them.
      In a normal relationship we try to support and offer love to another person even
      if it inconveniences us or we "get" nothing out of it. Not so with a psychopath.
      It's all about them.

      But you would also need to read up on narcissists as well because they are self
      centered in the same way and can be misidentified for psychopaths.

      Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      >
      > Thank you Harrison,
      > Would a sociopath love animals? I mean all types. She is especially fond of
      sea creatures like dolphins and manatees. She is an undersea diver. She has two
      kittens she takes loving care of. Most people don't see anything wrong with what
      she does. The truth is she is my daughter and I get a lot of abusive treatment
      from her. I finally had to put a stop to her angry outbursts. I told her that I
      was willing to talk to her about the problems with or with out a therapists. I
      got no response. Toward me, her actions still seemed to be to cause me pain
      while she still does not admit what she does is wrong. Although, I am finding it
      hard to be objective at this time, she comes across like a heartless demon.
      Although until about a year ago, we didn't have any problems between us, on
      several occasions she went out of her way to get even with people she thought
      wronged her. Most people would just move on, she seems to get obsessed with
      revenge. When I asked why she wanted to hurt people, she simple said because she
      can. She has appeared very fragile since she lost her mate and her job about
      the same time. It certainly had nothing to do with me but I feel like I am the
      stand in for the people she can't get at for pay back. Recently, I informed my
      children and my daughter in law that the doctor thought I had cancer. My son
      and loving daughter in law have been with me every step of the way. I simply
      got no response from my daughter and I have heard not a word from her at all
      although she does stay abreast of what is going on with the other two. Not one
      word of comfort or support has she given and looking back, I don't think there
      were any times that she ever did offer support. I will get the book and read
      it. Any more insight you might have is appreciated. I didn't intend to get
      into it because it is a family thing but I need to understand these things.
      >
      > Thanks again
      >
      harrisonferrel wrote:

      > I have extensive experience in this field. I would recommend, for starters,
      that you read The Sociopath Next Door (Martha Stout, PhD). Sociopaths can make
      us doubt ourselves. They are experts at mimicking real emotions because they
      have had to learn this behavior from an early age in order to survive in a
      normal world. They continue to suck you back into a relationship after
      disagreements. They make you feel like "it must be me because he/she seems so
      sincere. Surely I must just be too sensitive or judgmental..." The only way to
      win against a psychopath is to completely disassociate from them without ever
      starting up again. It's all or nothing. They are parasitic to the nth degree.
      >
      > Further, sociopaths (which is the same thing as psychopaths) often marry
      narcissists or other sociopaths. Narcissists are similar but do have a degree of
      real emotionality.
      >
      Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      > >
      > > I myself right now, am dealing with a person whose ways and personality is
      causing me great concern because she may be a sociopath. She was married to an
      individual who definitely was a sociopath. From what I read. the victim of a
      sociopath once out of the relationship may act like the sociopath because the
      pain of what they endured causes them to strike at others and so they use the
      same techniques as the sociopath.

      > > In short this is an issue that concerns me greatly at this point. I love
      this would be sociopath. I bounce back and forth thinking she is a sociopath to
      thinking she is merely acting like one because of the long term exposure to one.
      Her actions are painful and detrimental to others for sure. I am having to
      create distance with this person because she won't allow healthy interactions
      with her and takes every opportunity to maim.
      > >
      > > All of you who have knowledge in this area, please give to me what you may
      know. In this case, it is very hard for me to be objective.
      > >
      eckchains@> wrote:

      > >
      Eckankar is Authoritarian, and anyone who joins, is drawn to Authoritarianism at
      some level. All of us who joined, did this for a reason that seemed acceptable
      at the time, even if we only joined for a short period.
      > >
      Oh, I don't know, it seems that there are different levels of "Sociopath". I'm
      not convinced that it is congenital. That would almost be the same as some
      religious convictions that claim that there is such a thing as a Satan baby, or
      evil spirits, or the "bad seed". I do not know of an MRI that can identify a
      Sociopath/Psychopath and that proves that there is a Psychopathic brain from
      birth, that predicts "natural born killers", etc..
      > >
      I think it comes from Cultural influences and how children are mistreated. Alice
      Miller was able to prove this to a certain extent in her research and writings.
      The plasticity of the brain may be a factor. The Nazis came to power, for
      example, because beating children was common and accepted, as well as revering
      Authority as a great virtue. And yes, the longer one stays in a situation that
      is like a gang of thugs, the more they become like the leader and that group, in
      this case, klemp, gross, twitchell. Be careful who you choose to hang out with.
      If they are bad types, it will start to rub off on you. (tea baggers are a good
      example) Free thinking isn't really encouraged in the USA, in spite of the hype.
      I'm pretty sure that my involvement in eckankar and other Cults had to do with
      being raised to admire authority and believe that you were a good person if you
      followed the leader, like a good soldier, and also along with the fear of not
      doing so. It takes dedication, compassion, and study to break away from that
      mind set, imo. Also, it may take Psychotherapy, or at the very least a group
      like this.
      > >
      Some people do actually change their bad ways. It is possible and can happen,
      imo. I don't think babies are born hating. At the same time, for some, don't
      hold your breath. I know of some eckists who sadly will never change, or admit
      to having done anything wrong, and will continue on 'til the day they die.
      > >
      When I say "sociopath in training", I am just referring to what happens over
      time. The eckist starts to act more and more like the living eck master,
      following orders, giving orders, preaching lies, harming others, and so on.
      Social Psychology is a good source for understanding how this happens. Who
      knows, with brain plasticity there are probably changes. So I don't see this
      problem as either/or or black and white thinking. Nurture, imo can have a very
      profound effect on even the most difficult child, if done in the right way. The
      same may also be true of adults. Our prison system creates more criminals than
      it reforms. Unfortunately, we still live in a very not compassionate society,
      imo. If we did, perhaps there would not be so many gullible followers in the
      first place. (Why? well I don't want to get into a dissertation right now. Maybe
      later. :) )
      > >
      > > Non ;)
      > >
      <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
      > > >
      I think you hit the nail on the head with a couple of things you wrote.
      > > >
      As a lifelong student of psychology, I know that a person identifies with
      his/her choices. When people choose to follow eck or any other cult or religion,
      they have made a statement that involves a commitment of ego. This compels them
      to be ardent missionaries.
      > > >
      Regarding sociopaths in training, there is no such thing. Sociopaths/psychopaths
      suffer from a brain malfunction so they cannot be created through experience. It
      is primarily a physiological problem and not a psychological one. It seems that
      both Twitchell and Klemp could be sociopaths, as are many cult leaders.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      <eckchains@> wrote:
      > > > >
      Yes, I agree. It is one thing to be a follower engaged in "willful ignorance"
      and to be the one willfully and knowingly telling lies to deceive others for
      personal gain. One is a true Sociopath with no conscience, but at the same time,
      followers who perpetuate those lies for decades are just Sociopaths in training,
      and depending on their level of involvement, their actions may be just as vile.
      What their level of delusion is, I don't know. Perhaps it is just as simple as
      pride, in the sense of not being able to admit that they made a mistake. It can
      be more difficult for some to walk away and think for themselves and find new
      friends. But still.....
      > > > >
      I know that religion in general is a very slippery slope. I was asked by several
      people recently if I had a good Easter. Since I had been alerted to where the
      word Easter actually comes from, the Goddess Ishtar of fertility with rabbits
      and eggs, etc., I got a lot of worried looks when I just said that I enjoyed a
      nice day in Nature.
      > > > >
      I also had a really cool conversation with a teenager who was joking around
      about having a tarantula on his back. I saw something, and touched it with my
      sunglasses thinking it was fake, but a leg moved. He admitted he was just
      joking, but that the Tarantula was real and his pet. I asked if it bites and he
      said no, holding it on the palm of his hand. He said I could hold it too.
      Suddenly, I found myself realizing that this Tarantula, that he got from a Pet
      Store, was not just some stupid spider. It was intelligent. I held out my hand
      and the Tarantula walked onto the palm of my hand and stood there for about ten
      seconds. I was actually thrilled and amazed. Of course, it was a species of
      Tarantula that was not poisonous and used to human interaction.
      > > > >
      Well, to say the least, for most, that didn't fit with an adequate Easter
      experience. How many billions are actually believing in the goddess Easter (even
      pronounced the same way) and don't want to know about the true history of
      religions and anthropology. I ate way too much chocolate to try to ignore the
      idiocy.
      > > > >
      > > > > Non ;)
      > > > >
      "harrisonferrel" wrote:
      > > > > >
      Eckankar has everything to do with taking advantage of gullible people looking
      to improve themselves (of course there are exceptions). But I find fault with
      people who are faced with the facts, which are now readily available all across
      the internet, yet continue to live the lie, believe the lies and promote the
      lies.
      > > > > >
      When I got into the cult many years ago there was no widely spread information
      on what a scam it was. David Lane was the only one who exposed eckankar for what
      it really is. When the internet became a good tool I was able to find out enough
      to make me buy the original books from which twitchell plagiarized. It took me
      only a minute of comparing eck writings with those that were stolen to quit the
      cult and understand that it was all unreliable nonsense. I determined that Klemp
      was either deluded or a psychopath. Now I think it's the latter. How can you
      live day in and day out deceiving people if you really have a conscience?
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