6606Re: Growing list
- Jan 18, 2013Sorry those links didn't work. One link was to an a.r.e. archive link to all the examples of plagiarisms that I've seen to date - which can be found by searching the a.r.e. archive for: Ref# 41391720. Example:
The second link (that didn't work) was to the a.r.e. thread from where the quotes I posted can be found. Example (and about the growing list):
"[....] A few years after Harold became the Master [1984?], he began
researching and going through Paul's old files. That was after Darwin
turned Paul's library over to Harold. It certainly would be true to
say that Harold saw a side of Paul he had not seen before, as did I
[Doug Marman] when Harold gave me permission to look through the
records. Paul's files gave some interesting insights into Paul's past,
which Paul never spoke about. So Harold began to make a more thorough
"About this same time, Harold began hearing from a number of ECKists
about passages in other books that sounded similar to Paul's, and
further stories about how Paul had studied with Kirpal Singh and
worked for L. Ron Hubbard, which had circulated around since the early
days. So, with Paul's files handy, Harold started digging. [...] A few
months later, after researching Paul's files more thoroughly, Harold
began giving a series of talks and writing a series of articles to
share the information he found. Although Harold never tried to force
anyone to change their perceptions of Paul, he was clearly working to
unfreeze the ideas that had developed over time so that we could all
see Paul from a fresh viewpoint. [... .]"
[Based on: Doug Marman: Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 10]
"[...] As for the Astral library dream, this is unfortunate that it
has become misunderstood in this way. I [Doug Marman] cover this in my
book as well. I know that some could say that I am just offering
another interpretation, but how do I know my interpretation is the
correct one? The reason I feel confident is because Harold talked with
me about the whole issue of Paul's plagiarism shortly before he had
that dream and gave those talks or started writing about it. He was
quite straightforward and told me that even though it might be hard to
swallow he was discovering a growing list. I know Harold was not happy
with what he had learned and felt that Paul had left him a mess to
clean up. This is exactly what he says at the end of his Astral
Library dream as well. [... .]"
[Based on: January 2003 Doug Marman T.S. post - Response to Usually
Skeptical: More Questions to Doug Marman]
Those were the two quotes, I believe, that I referred to. The a.r.e. link page is here:
As for the T.S. link, I don't think they work any longer. Personally, I suspect somebody sabotaged the T.S. site. There is a redirect link which prevents most of the original pages from coming up.
I believe maybe I copied ALL of the old T.S. B.B. posts, and from going to wayback machine, from old archive pages. So if anybody in the future wants copies of T.S. B.B. posts just let me know.
Btw, I just noticed that I gave the wrong date for that D.M. post. It was not from January 2003, but January 3rd, 2004. I have a copy if anybody wants to see it.
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" wrote:
> Hello Etznab,
> What's this pertain to?
> I wasn't able to pull these
> sites up.
> What's Marman saying
> about "the Astral Library
> dream"(of PT's?) being
> misunderstood... in what
> What is the interpretation?
> It's more than a metaphor
> Didn't Klemp say that he,
> too, visited the Astral Library
> and saw Ancient manuscripts
> with Twitchell's handwritten
> notes scribbled in the margins.
> It seems that only EKists have
> access to this specific Astral
> Plane Library and that it's a
> really old style (ancient/wisdom
> filled) library that, mostly, EKists
> are taught to dream of and
> BTW-Anyone who plagiarizes,
> as Twitchell did, is also a liar.
> So why believe anything Twitchell
> This is what bothered Klemp.
> Klemp realized that Twitchell
> was worse than Darwin! The
> Astral Library story/dream was
> B.S. Klemp has made a vocation
> out of Eckankar just as Twitchell
> and Gross did. He rationalizes
> it all away by thinking that he
> is giving a select group of New
> Agers something to believe in.
> HK's giving them much of what
> the other religions give: Faith;
> Belief; Promises; Pride; Hope.
> While taking their money and
> being seen as Pope like by
> being infallible and beyond
> "etznab18" wrote:
> A.R.E. repost from 01/13/13
> "[...] As for the Astral library dream, this is unfortunate that it has become
> misunderstood in this way. I [Doug Marman] cover this in my book as well.
> I know that some could say that I am just offering another interpretation,
> but how do I know my interpretation is the correct one?
> The reason I feel confident is because Harold talked with me about the
> whole issue of Paul's plagiarism shortly before he had that dream and
> gave those talks or started writing about it.
> He was quite straightforward and told me that even though it might be
> hard to swallow he was discovering a growing list. I know Harold was not
> happy with what he had learned and felt that Paul had left him a mess to
> clean up. This is exactly what he says at the end of his Astral Library dream
> as well. [... .]"
> [Based on: January 2003 Doug Marman T.S. post - Response to Usually Skeptical:
> More Questions to Doug Marman]
> My contributions to the "growing list".
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